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Post by lostinmayo on Oct 4, 2005 16:15:53 GMT
[glow=red,2,300]Would need to watch Canavans 'rugby' tackle again, could have swore Cooper punched him after Cooper got up.[/glow]
Don't think any tv cameras caught this, i haven't seen game on tv, but no-one i talked to that watched it saw it. Gooch most certainly did clatter him after he got up, anyone worth their salt would have done the exact same thing.
As for ice baths, it's more than we have down in Kerry. Development of the game at a young age is the way to go, ye certainly have the right idea, i'm not sure it's the same in Kerry, i know in my club, it's shockiong bad and used be good when i was a wee fella, so it's getting worse instead of better.
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Post by austinstacksabu on Oct 4, 2005 16:45:43 GMT
I haven't been able to bring myself to watch it again PH, I thought it was either Jordan or O'Neill but went for Jordan.
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Post by buck02 on Oct 4, 2005 17:18:53 GMT
Theres also the issue of huge financial support from businesses and other sources( ) in Tyrone that help the professional set up.
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Post by Kerry39 on Oct 4, 2005 18:38:37 GMT
" because the whole structure and attitude in Tyrone is different, everything is geared towards the panel and making sure they have best they possibly can get...."
Yet again ye are at it Lads. Message seems to be if Kerry had Loads of Money from the UK Lottery, Peter the Great coaching youngsters during the summer, and Ice Baths then we would have bridged the massive difference between both teams, (gap = i.e. 3 points)...
Well, we have plenty of financial support for team training at every club, top class facilities which leave all other sports in the County in their wake. Most players are well looked after with jobs.
We have plenty of coaches spending their summer coaching. At least one panel member is at it full time.
And instead of Ice Baths, we have some special, tradition. We have 4 members of the starting team coming from remote parts of West Kerry either staring out at the Slea Head, or at the foot of Mount Brandon; one from remote South Kerry, staring out at the Skellig, all raised on a diet of Kerry football traditions. Try telling them and the local youngsters who look up to them about Ice Baths and Sports Pycholigists ...
Lookit, to try and say the Tyrone have a much better structure than Kerry is complete and total rubbish. The football structures in Kerry are surely the envy of every other county, and indeed every other sport in the Country. We have always produced top class teams and players, and will continue to do so. I know there are separate arguments about improvements which could be made, Co. Championship structures, minor team selection, etc... etc... But in the main we have a top notch Co Board, top notch structures for football at all levels and ages, tradition no money could buy, and a secret ingredient which makes everyone fear Kerry.
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miko
On Probation
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Post by miko on Oct 4, 2005 21:41:41 GMT
Kerry34 ''But in the main we have a top notch Co Board, top notch structures for football at all levels and ages, tradition no money could buy, and a secret ingredient which makes everyone fear Kerry. ''
One interesting fact, if all of the above is true can you explain why it is that Kerry have taken only 3 out of the last 20 All Ireland Titles v's 30 from the previous 90 odd ? I'm not do sure many of the Northern teams fear Kerry anymore than they do Cork, Dublin, Galway or indeed many off their on neighbours. Get over yourself Kerry34 your name reveals more about your blinkered self than any off the ''Facts'' you appear to purport about the state of Kerry Football. If anyone in kerry football believes as you do that all the answers are in the kingdom and kerry have nothing to learn from others. Then the sam count will continue to decline over the next 20 years.
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Post by kerrygold on Oct 4, 2005 22:44:58 GMT
There a difference between stopping a quick kick out and kicking away an all ready placed ball as o neill did which was orchrastrated by peter the great.
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Post by kerrygold on Oct 4, 2005 22:55:11 GMT
kerry have won 11 of the last 30 all-irelands which averages roughly one every three years.In the same period we have lost 4 finals which means kerry have contested 15 of the last 30 all-ireland finals,ie averaging ever second year.something like yereselves in tyrone have done over the last 3 years only we have been consistingly doing it over a hundred years.
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seamus
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Post by seamus on Oct 5, 2005 8:46:05 GMT
Ph, With regard to Club Tyrone, am i right in saying this:
Club Tyrone has 450 odd members who each pay £500 sterling a year (£225k sterling - €320k) to support the Tyrone football setup. This money is used to prepare the senior, minor and u21 teams for the championship. It sounds like an excellent idea to me and a setup to be jealous of.
However,we in kerry are not behind the wall either. In my opinion we currently have the best county board that we ever had. Our players get looked after exceptionally well and anything jack wanted in the last couple of years, he got. The county board have just bought land near killarney (fossa, i think) which they hope to turn into a state of the art training centre for all county teams. They also come up with innovative fundraising ideas (last year they sold the official team photo of the AI for €150 and cleaned up, this year they put a level of €10 on each AI final ticket).
As well as that the minister for Sport is a kerryman and through out serious lotto money to a large number of kerry clubs. Surprisingly, his own club of St Marys received €300k for pitch and dressingroom developments! A number of outside members of this forum have commented on the great facilities of clubs in kerry and i have to agree. The main reason we have not been successful at minor and u21 is in my opinion down to poor selection of managemet (charlie trained the minors for nearly 10 years and was a diaster in my opinion). However , in recent years: Finuge won the AI junior Gaeltacht reached the AI club semi final Colaiste na Sceilige have won 3? Munster schools etc etc
My only slight complaint PH is I wonder how someone like Brian Dooher (who is a vet) can afford to give up work after the league game against Wexford to concentrate on being captain of tyrone without getting financial support. Do you know what he did for the summer and how he paid the mortgage? "GAA Coach"?! Do people think that this is the way football will go whereby players will be funded to concentrate on football either by county boards (illegal i think apart from 'coaching' positions), Club Tyrone type setups or individual businessmen? I think it is happening already with some of our players and i am sure it is more common up North where there are more wealthy individuals with an interest in GAA.
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Post by kerrygold on Oct 5, 2005 10:15:17 GMT
Interesting points there seamus,i agree we have a very good structure in kerry and a very good county board.The one thing that concerns me is the lack of success at under age and junior level.darren o sullivan gave a glimps of what can come through at junior level.The present senior team is back boned by minor and u21 all-ireland wins in the early 90 s.Its fine saying we can pick up 1 or 2 players every year buts there nothing like winning to breed success and confidence and a feel good factor in a group.I think the club tyrone is a fanstastic idea and could be looked into in kerry.,with the funds created going solely into the underage and junior teams.Wouldnt it be great to create a school of excellence in the new grounds in fossa bringing in 20 of the best 10 to 12 year olds every year and gearing them for future minor teams funded by club kerry.I think in the case of brian dooher he gave up the grind of working in a practice with early morning and late night calls to work in a government job with more regular hours.Interestingly mickey harte has taken leave of his teaching post last year to work in auctioneering.we shouldnt under estimate the demands and sacrafices placed on county players and managers in there quest for the holy grail.
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Post by kerryman on Oct 5, 2005 10:25:49 GMT
All this talk of Tyrone is the be all and end all is rubbish. This is the same team that did NOT win and Ulster title this year or last year. DREW with Dublin and Cavan this year. Took 3 games to beat Armagh. LOST to Mayo last year.
What they did was time it right to peak in the semi final and final. Kerry were unbeaten last year. Only Limerick came close in reality. In 2005 we clearly got our tactics wrong against a very good Tyrone side, and Tyrone got it right. I still think a few tweaks to tactics for the final would have been enough to put Tyrone away.
We are not that far away, and before loosing the run of ourselves with ice baths and "sponsoring" players to give up work, lets study the opposition and our next match first.
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BIGMAC
Fanatical Member
not dead only sleeping
Posts: 1,247
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Post by BIGMAC on Oct 5, 2005 10:25:54 GMT
why are you sure it happens more up north if you think that your players are getting shall we say "benefit" from playing ,i personally think that it is happening countrywide and that all counties are more than happy with the situation.
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Post by lostinmayo on Oct 5, 2005 10:55:54 GMT
Kerry34 and Kerryman, I think ye're missing the point that I initially started, I never said that Tyrone are much better than us or that our structures in Kerry are not good. My point is that I believe that there seems to be more preparation and professionalism in Tyrone to ensure that their senior team wins at all costs. I could be wrong, but this is the impression I get. At this level, this is what could make the difference, be it 1 point or 3 points, that's what I was saying about Munster and Wasps. Even at lower levels it makes a difference, I remember a few years ago we played Austin Stacks in a league game and while we werw arriving to the pitch they were all out warming up and preparing. They beat us, and we wewren't bad, we finished well up the league, but they were better prepared.
So, I don't believe we are much off Tyrone atall and will be ready for them next year, but down the line I do worry if we will have the same supply of players coming through.
Also, I've no doubt the Kerry players are well looked after and have good jobs, but I reckon in Tyrone, a lot of them are semi-pro, that could make all the difference when it really matters in the last 10 mins.
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Post by kerrygold on Oct 5, 2005 11:14:03 GMT
Your spot on there kerryman,next year will be a differnt landscape,teams with differnt motivational factors ect ect,we will see how close this imaginary gap is.
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Joxer
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Post by Joxer on Oct 5, 2005 12:00:46 GMT
I agree completely Kerryman, you're spot-on as usual.
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Post by FatTom on Oct 5, 2005 13:28:47 GMT
We had a bad day at the office stuff about ice baths is nonsense.
33 plays 2 in my books still.
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Post by phpearse on Oct 5, 2005 15:07:17 GMT
Seamus
I mentioned this on a seperate thread but Dooher didn't give up work this year. He was a self employed vet and was working serious hours. His health deteriorated, he missed a few league games and the first round game against Down cause he was weak. His doctors advised him to lessen his work load. At that time he started to work for the Department of Agriculture and is employed by them working more reasonable hours.
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Post by lostinmayo on Oct 5, 2005 19:57:07 GMT
We had a bad day at the office stuff about ice baths is nonsense. 33 plays 2 in my books still. and what was it in 02 and 03 Fattom? more bad days at the office. People are really jumping on the ice baths bandwagon. The fact is we're behind the northern teams, not much but we are, the sooner people realise that the better, but Fattom, it's exactly that attitude of 33 plays 2 that will leave us left behind and playing catch up. All I say is thank God Jack doesn't think like that and he will most definitely be out to put that right next year. That's my last word on this topic, but people need to open their eyes and see the facts, it's not just one game, it's 3 defeats out of 3.
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Post by Kerry39 on Oct 5, 2005 22:48:21 GMT
but people need to open their eyes and see the facts, it's not just one game, it's 3 defeats out of 3. 3 defeats out of 3, open your own eyes Lost in Mayo, are you forgetting last year? The team with three defeats in the last two years is Tyrone. Armagh had 2, we have only had 1. Go back 3 years, we had 2, Armagh had 4, and Tyrone 3. Go back 4 years, we had 4, Armagh had 4 , and Tyrone had 5.
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Post by FatTom on Oct 6, 2005 12:29:56 GMT
We had a bad day at the office stuff about ice baths is nonsense. 33 plays 2 in my books still. and what was it in 02 and 03 Fattom? more bad days at the office. People are really jumping on the ice baths bandwagon. The fact is we're behind the northern teams, not much but we are, the sooner people realise that the better, but Fattom, it's exactly that attitude of 33 plays 2 that will leave us left behind and playing catch up. All I say is thank God Jack doesn't think like that and he will most definitely be out to put that right next year. That's my last word on this topic, but people need to open their eyes and see the facts, it's not just one game, it's 3 defeats out of 3. In 02 we were very unlucky and manager made a few serious errors, we should have been out the gate at half time. In 03 we played poorly and weren't ready for the blanket defence. This year I think we were equipped to attack Tyrone better but we palyed poor. Our half forward line was bad and unlike 03 we lost ball when pne Tryone man was on top of us not 3- 5. Kirby, Moyno and Dec Sull especially. I think we played poor on the day. If gooch hadn't been blown up for that foul on MacMenamin and they hadn't got the goal he could have been straight through that's a 6 point turn around. We aren't behind em - it took them 4 games to beat Dublin and Cavan. Fermanagh beat Armagh last year, Mayo Tyrone when they had bad days at the office. Just like we had in the final this year, just like Kilkenny had against Galway in the Hurling.
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Post by lostinmayo on Oct 6, 2005 12:51:15 GMT
excuses excuses, and pretty sad ones at dat, i think u need to stop now fact is we lost 3 times against Ulster opponents
when i say 3 defeats out of 3, i mean against northern opposition obviously, i think u knew dat....
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Post by FatTom on Oct 6, 2005 12:56:12 GMT
Really and what province are Derry from?
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Post by lostinmayo on Oct 6, 2005 13:01:51 GMT
u're unreal, some people call it anal... u know what i mean, i'm not even going to conitnue this...
or do you expect to me to say "oh, I forgot about Derry"
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Post by austinstacksabu on Oct 6, 2005 15:17:04 GMT
Ah, welcome back FT - your usual sharp ways were missed. There hasn't been a decent schmozzle in here in months.
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Boris
Full Member
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Post by Boris on Oct 6, 2005 15:23:55 GMT
You cant argue with the fact that our last 3 games against the Tyrone and Armagh ended in defeat. This year we were beaten sick and never looked like winning after the first 20 mins.
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Post by anciarraiodh on Oct 6, 2005 16:25:18 GMT
Some serious overanalysis going on here about how the Northern teams are dominating us in the Championship over recent years. This game was billed as the game Kerry had to win to restore pride from 2003. What the game did do was give us a good game of football and it also saw Tyrone bury the 'puke football' tag and win an All Ireland in some style notwithstanding some of the unsavoury incidents. We will be back again and remember that even the great Kerry teams of the past have never beaten Down.
It is interesting to note the way that much of the criticism that was levelled at Paidi after 2003 for not responding to the tactics employed that day seems to be missing with respect to Jack O'Connor who had 2 years to prepare. We played the wrong game and reacted too late, perhaps because we did not have the personell. I am not comparing both managers but it shows how shallow we are when it comes to our former greats. In the lead up to this final there were comments on how JoC was the man to bring us victory and how the lessons had been learnt. They clearly weren't and while that does not make him a bad manager it surely questions whether Paidi was as poor a manager as some of the contributors to this forum would have us believe. I am glad JoC is staying on as he deserves another year but if it goes wrong next year I hope people will think back to the games he has won us and not focus on the negatives as we have done with previous managers.
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Post by kerrygold on Oct 6, 2005 22:18:26 GMT
I always felt that paudi and charlie neligan were harshly treated by some on this forum.Remember these guys are doing there best for kerry and have served kerry football in a huge way.Between them they have won 15 all-ireland senior medals over 20 munsters senior titles,6 national leagues and several under age titles.Paudis record with the senior and u21 teams is massive,if they had won in 2002 he would been called a lengend.These guys owe kerry football nothing and have me great pleasure over the years.
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Post by lostinmayo on Oct 7, 2005 10:52:42 GMT
I certainly think Paidi, even though I'm sure was gutted had a little smile after the game, thinking that we were beaten on the sideline aswell as on the field and probably feels hard done by as he always has done.
I have to agree anciarraoidh, i thought Jack would have the tactical awareness to react, he didn't and was disappointed with that aspect, the most obvious thing he should have done was to play Dos on the 40. I'm delighted he's there next year and he will be more hell bent than ever on winning.
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Post by FatTom on Oct 10, 2005 9:37:05 GMT
Declan o Sullivan was on the forty?
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Post by lostinmayo on Oct 10, 2005 11:03:46 GMT
on the teamsheet only
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Post by FatTom on Oct 10, 2005 11:06:24 GMT
No on the teamsheet he was number 14
Brosnan played large portions of the game at full forward.
O Sullivan marked Gormley
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