dec
Senior Member
Ciarrai Abu
Posts: 314
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Post by dec on Sept 5, 2005 6:19:40 GMT
20 days and counting.
After yesterdays performance and strength of character displayed from Tyrone this game will be an absorbing affair for sure and a super test of Kerry.
Both teams play similar football styles. What tactics and teams will be set out to counter the opposition here?
I am confident Kerry will win this game but it is going to take a massive performance and effort both physically and mentally. Redemtion and revenge and maybe immortality (for both teams) are words that spring to mind when i think about this game..
Kerry to do a historic two in a row.. Anybody agree??
Ciarrai Abu..
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Post by kerrydoc on Sept 5, 2005 7:53:24 GMT
Kerry to do a historic two in a row.. Anybody agree?? Ciarrai Abu.. definitely agree! i think the lads will be so well prepared for this game, pride and revenge at stake. should be a cracker of a match. BRING IT ON!!!!!
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KevinT
Senior Member
Posts: 434
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Post by KevinT on Sept 5, 2005 7:58:05 GMT
I think this will be Kerrys biggest test under Jacks reign . If he can have their heads right on the day I think we will have our 2 in a row . Tactics will be a huge part of the game and the fact that its Tyrone we're playing should provide huge motivation in the team .
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Post by kerryman on Sept 5, 2005 8:51:30 GMT
In my mind its 50-50 all the way and wouldn't be surprised by a replay.
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Post by buck02 on Sept 5, 2005 9:12:22 GMT
Hear McMenamin after the game "our style of football as Jack would say", also see the Tyrone players being carried shoulder high by the fans and them staying on the field for so long after the game...........more motivation if any was needed.
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Post by austinstacksabu on Sept 5, 2005 10:24:46 GMT
It will be an absorbing game but a few thoughts to throw out there and think about over the coming weeks:
They haven't had a settled full back or midfield all year. Armagh dominated midfield for much of the game yesterday and Chris Lawn was brought back on before the game was over yesterday.
Tyrone have now proved that they have the hunger for this - they've taken Armagh's divine right to last minuted grafting of a win and made it their own. They're supremely focussed on this.
It'll come down to how Kerry prepare mentally for this. If we are right mentally on the day, in tune with what we have to do, we can win this game. Jack is a master at this angle of the game - it'll be critical on September 25th. When you add up the pro's and cons of each player, there is very very little between them. Mental approach is where Kerry can differentiate themselves.
As I said in my post about the match, Armagh rarely burst through their man yesterday, they let Tyrone swarm them. Will Kerry do this, burst through the tackle? They'll have to otherwise, like many times yesterday, the player will be caught in possession with nowhere to go. I'm surprised Armagh let them do this yesterday, Tyrone had them under immense pressure.
How'll our backs line up. Not sure Seamus is best suited to centre back on the day - he won't be able to stop men running down the centre like Cavanagh, and I'm not sure he's suited to following McGuigan around the pitch all day. I'd put Marc O'Se on him or Aidan.
Anyway, much to think about - I've said since before the league if we met Armagh or Tyrone we'd win the final and I'll have to stick to my guns now, but it's not cockiness or arrogance - there is genuine tension about how this game will pan out. It could be very close.
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Jo90
Fanatical Member
Posts: 2,685
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Post by Jo90 on Sept 5, 2005 10:36:22 GMT
The worrying aspect is that Tyrone won yesterday with only 25% possession from midfield and with Mulligan and O'Neill only scoring 1 point each from play. What would they do in the final with 50% possession and with O'Neill and Muligan on fire?
Was suprised at Jack to be naïve enough to say a foolish comment about contrasting styles. For one it's wrong, Tyrone and Armagh are each closer in style to Kerry than they are to each other i.e. Tyrone's attacking backs and Armagh's long ball into a 2 man full-forward line. Secondly its the type of motivational factor that come back to haunt you.
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seamus
Fanatical Member
Posts: 2,741
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Post by seamus on Sept 5, 2005 10:36:54 GMT
Agree, Tyrone have broken all the tradtional 'rules' of football. They have no midfield, no full back, no centre back, don't play with any half forward line and are still in the AI final with an excellent chance of victory!! There game is based on fluid movement all over the pitch, swarm defence to prevent 1 on 1 battles, fight for breaks and isolate their key men up front supporting them with bursts through the middle which is wide open because of the lack of a half forward line.
How do you beat it? My opinion: Crowd our own defence when possible, fight for the breaks, when we get the ball in defence head for the wings where there is more space and then target cross field balls into the full forward line supporting them with burst from Brosnan etc. Man mark McGuigan who is the playmaker (marc or Aidan) Use the short kick out to the wing backs to tie down their half foward line and then try to get 1 on 1 kickouts to our midfield where we should have an advantage. I believe we need someone to hold down the centre back spot and confront runners coming through as well as cutting off the supply inside. We have only 2 players who can play this role, Seamus and Fitzy and in my opinion Fitzy is king of this role (that should get discussion going!Who to drop?!) Tyrone will definitely drop someone in front of Gooch to cut out the supply. The only way to counter this is the cross field ball which negates that tactic. We will also need to be able to shoot from distance if our inside men are blocked.
What about it then. Fitzy to start?
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Post by austinstacksabu on Sept 5, 2005 11:07:50 GMT
Spot on with your post there Seamus - completely agree on Fitzy.
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Post by scoobydo on Sept 5, 2005 11:25:19 GMT
I think where we are better than Armagh is our distribution from the backs plus I think our backs have more football in them than the Armagh equivalent. Therefore getting better ball into the full forward line than Armagh managed. Jack has to plan for gooch to be held quiet and Kerry will need to have a plan B, They really have to match Tyrone for intensity and hunger and rely on their skills to take it. some serious questions will be asked of this Kerry team and management, I think the hunger is there, and I hope they get the bit of luck on the day that is always necessary in these matches
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Post by Admin on Sept 5, 2005 11:27:27 GMT
Info on the game, upcoming events, match previews, panels etc, can be found on the Kerry site at: kerry.gaa.ie/intercounty/2005/senfoot/final2005/teams.htmWe will try to keep this fully updated over the next 3 weeks. - Any suggestions or queries, please email kerrygaa@vodafone.ie. - Any relevant online newpaper reports etc can also be forwarded. Thanks. Ciarraí Abú
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Post by Kerry39 on Sept 5, 2005 11:39:27 GMT
Good stuff Admin just had a look.
Do you know yet whether there is "Open Training Day" for kids this year?
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seamus
Fanatical Member
Posts: 2,741
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Post by seamus on Sept 5, 2005 11:47:03 GMT
Excellent work admin. Hopefully it will prevent a lot of the stupid questions that you normally get inside at Stacks park!
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Post by Admin on Sept 5, 2005 11:57:17 GMT
Good stuff Admin just had a look. Do you know yet whether there is "Open Training Day" for kids this year? Just got the info today. Will update site later. Check back closer to the time for any possible changes to this tho.... = = The Kerry Senior Football Panel are giving their young supporters an opportunity to meet them at an Open Day which will be held at Fitzgerald Stadium, Killarney on Saturday September 17th commencing at 12 o’clock midday. The purpose of the Open Day is to allow our supporters, and Juveniles in particular, the chance to come along and meet the players, get autographs signed, get posters of the team and get their pictures taken with their heroes. They will then be able to finish off their visit by watching the team train for the final. There will be various sideshows on the day. Come along, show your colours and support your team! The event will be fully stewarded. ==
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Post by lostinmayo on Sept 5, 2005 12:09:55 GMT
I am confident we can beat Tyrone, but it will take an enormous effort for everyone, but Jack and the whole squad have been preparing for this game for over 2 years and they will be ready mentally and physically. I think Armagh did way too much handpassing yesterday in defence when they got the ball, this suited Tyrone perfectly and allowed them all to get back and defend and when they did play it long it was invariably a poor pass. I think Kerry will be getting the ball in quicker and better than Armagh. Who's going to be inside with Gooch though, it's even more important than ever now as the ball will be going in long and we will need ball winners, bring back Crowley.
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Post by buck02 on Sept 5, 2005 12:20:43 GMT
Armagh had Clarke a big man in there yesterday and he did feckall so I wouldnt say we need a big man in the full forward line. Plus I doubt we'll see McMahon in full back say if Cinneide gets back in. They will drop a man in front of our inside line which will leave one of our corner backs free. I'd detail Mahony to go man to man on McGuigan, with Mc on O'Neill and Tom Sull on Mulligan and let Marc Se be that free man because he's the back most comfortable in possesion and able to score.
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Post by ciarrai33 on Sept 5, 2005 12:38:18 GMT
Just wondering about how important it will be for Kerry to kill every ball they have in the final. By that i mean overshoot all shots on target. It was obvious from yesterday that the Tyrone goalie doen not like to see anything go out of play, suits them to start off quick counter attacks. Their midfield does not win enough ball. Same as against dublin. Still won both games though
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Post by ArthurG on Sept 5, 2005 12:44:27 GMT
We will have to play MFR in this game in my view. Tyrone (rightly) will target Gooch with tight defenders and probably a man marker as well. This should should pave the way for the other corner forward to utilise the other side as it will be wide open. Who better to have than Russell to do this job.
I'd Play Tomas O'Se at centre back, he is more than capable of standing in the centre stopping all Tyrone have to offer. Put Marc on Dooher as he (Dohher) always plays very deep and this will give Marc the licence he needs to bomb forward and take some scores.
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Post by kerryman on Sept 5, 2005 13:10:17 GMT
Good stuff admin.
I don't think Fitzmaurice will get his first start in quite some time on the day of the final. Aidan centre back, Moynihan on the wing and Marc in the corner is my guess..but its really hard to call. I think Cinneide will get his place back if he practises frees enough ..Sheehan hasn't the experience. Where does Declan O S go then? 2 man full forward line with Declan roving is my guess.
Mike Mac on O Neil and Tom Sullivan on Mugsy methinks.
This will be some match either way. Daragh O Se and Kirby will have a lot on their shoulders.
The golden question for me is about Gooch though. How many men will it take to quieten him ..and will they quiten him?
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trevor73
Full Member
Team Of The Decade
Posts: 195
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Post by trevor73 on Sept 5, 2005 14:21:22 GMT
I want Kerry to win this so much it hurts. I am curious as to who people think the rest of Ireland will be supporting. Normally it's 31 counties supporting the other team, but with this being a true South V North clash will the rest of the Southern counties be up for us.
Trev
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trevor73
Full Member
Team Of The Decade
Posts: 195
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Post by trevor73 on Sept 5, 2005 14:28:43 GMT
I also feel that an awful lot of psychology will come into play in the next few weeks. Someone said Jack was wrong for saying what he did about the contrasting styles of Northern and Southern football, but it obviously got to them with gypo McMenamin having a pop. Also, some of the Tyrone players praising Kerry were doing so in a fake kinda mindgames way.
If I was Jack, or anyone on the Kerry backroom team my tactics would be to put out the feeling in the media that referees should be rigid in the implementation on the Tyrone tactic of having four players crowd around the player with the ball, if they are fouling. Sundays ref wasnt standing for it. Having a ref with the same philosophy would be a huge benefit for us. Also, the odd comment about Gooch needing protection wouldnt go amiss. It's obvious they are gonna target Gooch and putting pressure on the ref now to allow underhand tactics wouldnt go amiss. We could of course shut up totally, and let our football do the talking, but I think Tyrone will definitely be going down the mindgames route
Trev
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Post by scoobydo on Sept 5, 2005 14:43:58 GMT
see dooher wasn't long pushing mcmenamin on shortly after he mentioned joc's comment. its obviously something they have been speaking about but now the cat is out of the bag, thanks ryan
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Post by austinstacksabu on Sept 5, 2005 14:48:46 GMT
We're hot favourites for this - last night Paddy Power had us at 7/4 on (4/7 for the Sky Sports loving youngsters among us) with Tyrone at 5/4.
Re: Jack's comment. It was interesting - and I don't think there was anything wrong with it. All it did was get the Tyrone fellas in a wee huff trying to justify that we all play the same. No sleep lost on Jack or the Kerry lads, pressure on the Tyrone lads.
I don't agree with mentioning about Gooch. Any referee who's going to take on the final will already know enough about Gooch. Jack telling them that he needs protection when Gooch is as prone as any player to a little swing of the elbow at times will only irritate the chosen ref. Talk up the opposition, their strenghts etc. Give one curve ball that will get them in a huff, distracts them, having them sticking it to the dressing room door etc but that in reality means feck all to Kerry and let that be his PR plan for the week. Don't draw any attention to our own game whatsoever, or our own players.
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seamus
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Post by seamus on Sept 5, 2005 14:54:15 GMT
Interesting post about the mindgames Trevor. The referee will have a big bearing on the result as yesterday showed. Certainly if the attackers got the benefit of the doubt it would suit kerry overall. Also there is no doubt that gooch will get a dose of mcmenemin's trash talking but if jack talks it up enough there will be enough of eyes watching that battle off the ball to keep him straight.
It will certainly do no harm to talk about 'northern style of football' in the coming weeks once the ref has been announced! Can't see it pysching tyrone up anymore than they already will be.
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Post by Mickmack on Sept 5, 2005 19:46:05 GMT
It is the first All Ireland final that I can remember where there is a cloud over both sets of midfielders. OK...Kerry did well against Cork in the semi but they were cleaned out in the munster final. Tyrones midfield were dominated by Dublin and Armagh.
If tyrone move cavanagh to midfield they are definately lessening their attacking options.
Having given the final a little thought, I feel that tyrone have more problems to sort out than kerry. Kerry have no obvious weaknesses apart from the absense of a PLAN B in attack ie the high ball into the fullforward line. If it too late to bring back johnny crowley!!!!!!!!!
The fullforward line for kerry is going to be picked on the basis of who can win their own ball. Mike Frank to lose out again?
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Post by Kerry39 on Sept 6, 2005 7:13:14 GMT
I don't agree with mentioning about Gooch. Any referee who's going to take on the final will already know enough about Gooch. Jack telling them that he needs protection when Gooch is as prone as any player to a little swing of the elbow at times will only irritate the chosen ref. Talk up the opposition, their strenghts etc. Give one curve ball that will get them in a huff, distracts them, having them sticking it to the dressing room door etc but that in reality means feck all to Kerry and let that be his PR plan for the week. Don't draw any attention to our own game whatsoever, or our own players. I don't agree with you there ASA. I think, like Trev, that there is no harm at all in mentioning it, even if it makes the ref a little more aware, even if it makes the umpires a little more aware or a little more likely to have a look and call the ref. We would not be looking for favours, just fair play.
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Post by kingdomkerry on Sept 6, 2005 7:34:16 GMT
Trev in gaelic football north vs. south does not come in to it. It is a 32 county sport and thats the way most people see it.
If its tight in the last ten minutes or so you would have to fancy tyrone. However matching up the two teams player for player i would have to go for kerry. marc mc and tom should win the battle against o neill mulligan and canavan. Brian dooher and mcguigan also need to be watched and we will need more from the othre two in the full forward line.
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Post by kingdomkerry on Sept 6, 2005 7:45:43 GMT
When will the referee be chosen.
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Post by Kerry39 on Sept 6, 2005 8:09:29 GMT
Trev in gaelic football north vs. south does not come in to it. It is a 32 county sport and thats the way most people see it. Ah come on KingdonKerry, no one is trying to turn this into a political thing. It could just as easy be a East West thing depending on who the super powers are at any one time. For the past 3 years there has been a definite change in style led by Armagh and Tyrone, both teams from the northern part Ireland. If say it was Wexford and Waterford who led this with success we would be talking about a south-east sytle of play. By the way this year it was a 33 county sport, with New York and London and without Kilkenny.
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Post by kerrydoc on Sept 6, 2005 8:20:33 GMT
super powers? ? going a bit too far there methinks, kerry34
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