BIGMAC
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not dead only sleeping
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Post by BIGMAC on May 23, 2006 10:29:06 GMT
GAA bosses braced for Munster backlash
By Jim O’Sullivan GAA bosses accept that Munster’s Heineken Cup success has obvious implications for the promotion of hurling and football in the province and specifically in Limerick.
Limerick County Board chairman Denis Holmes accepts that the win will concentrate GAA efforts on increasing efforts at schools and under-age level. His opposite number in Cork, Mick Dolan, believes that continuing success for the Rebel county is proving to be a valuable tool in enhancing the appeal of Gaelic games for young people.
Clearly, because of the grip of rugby in the city, Limerick face the biggest difficulty in attempting to nullify the game’s increased profile, which for young people has the added appeal of offering the best players the opportunity to earn their living from it.
“Being realistic, everybody knows Limerick is a rugby city and has been very proud of that over the years,’’ said Mr Holmes. “What it means for the GAA is that we have to work harder and harder if we are to counteract what’s going on at the present time and promote our own games.
“We have to try and get as many people as possible playing hurling and football.’’
As a first step, the county board will be rolling out a new coaching initiative in September, with Board PRO Denis O’Carroll commenting: “we are making a start in the city.”
It will involve an increased coaching presence in the schools in Limerick City, helped by funding from national and provincial sources.
“The hope is that we will have coaches going into the schools on a weekly basis and that we will direct the young people into the clubs.
“It’s something we have intended to do for a long time and which we are just now getting around to putting in place.’’
Pointing out that big numbers of students were going out of the inner city to attend school in Croom and Castletroy, he said they were encouraged by the fact that there will be a Limerick Colleges team taking part in next season’s Dr Harty Cup competition — an amalgamation of Limerick CBS, St Clement’s, Crescent Comprehensive and St Munchin’s.
Back in the late sixties, Limerick CBS were the dominant force in Munster colleges, with future stars like Pat Hartigan, Eamonn Grimes and Eamonn Cregan to the forefront.
“Hopefully, that will also help us,’’ added the chairman.
“Obviously, after Saturday’s victory for Munster, the city is on a high, but, looking to the future I feel that young fellows will come out and play Gaelic games again. From our point of view it brings it home how hard we will have to work if we are to promote the image of the GAA.’’
One obvious way they could do that was by being more successful on the inter-county front, he agreed. And, while regretting the defeat of the senior hurlers by Tipperary a fortnight ago, Mr Holmes expressed confidence that the team was moving in the right direction.
“It would give the games a serious boost if we could win an All-Ireland and we feel that our hurlers give us the best chance of achieving that. Hopefully, this might be our year.’’
In Cork, chairman Mick Dolan acknowledges that the Association’s profile is healthy for the precise reason that hurling in the county has been on such ‘a high’ in recent years.
And, he looks forward to progress in football being helped by the appearance of the U21’s in the recent All-Ireland final against Mayo.
“There’s no doubt that the Munster success has given rugby massive publicity.
“That has to have an impression on young minds and there is going to be a spin-off for the game,’’ he said.
“Having said that, these things generally settle down. In Cork, with our hurling team being so successful, young people are encouraged to take up the game.
“We have had our ups and downs. Hurling has weakened a certain amount in the city, but it’s coming on. We have Féile na nGael in Cork next month and for the next few days the president and people like Micheal
Ó Muircheartaigh will be visiting the schools to promote it.’’
And, at a more general level, he expressed confidence that the combined efforts of the county committees in the province would help to counteract the positive effects of the Munster success story.
Already it has ‘cost’ the county (and his club, Erin’s Own) through the success of Tomas O’Leary in gaining a contract with Munster.
And, Mr Dolan said that the move of Setanta Ó hAilpín to Australian Rules had been another significant loss to the GAA in Cork.
“We saw them as up-and-coming forwards. And we are short of forwards in Cork,’’ he added.
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Post by Mickmack on May 23, 2006 11:11:56 GMT
Who ever came up with the format for the heineken cup is a genius. There are very few meaningless matches.......bonus points can make a one sided game interesting. Our gaa set up could learn a thing or two from it. Having said all of that......without Munster the heineken cup would be colourless
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Post by austinstacksabu on May 23, 2006 11:19:46 GMT
If anybody wants, there are equally relavant articles which discuss how rugby and GAA live in complete harmony right across Munster, and also on how the GAA has survived soccer and rugby booms in the past in their own inimitable way (Tom Humphries did a great one about three weeks ago).
Limerick is a sport obsessed city, and will not suffer greatly after Munsters victory. Neither will any other part of Munster for that matter. The greater threat comes from kids not participating in sport at all.
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Post by FatTom on May 25, 2006 11:41:03 GMT
Errah Munster is only a bandwagon. Half of them Munster Fans are GAA fans too. They ain't so proud to be from Munster when it comes around to Railway Cup time now are they. Munster by the Grace of God me hole!
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Post by FatTom on May 25, 2006 12:16:40 GMT
See my response on the other thread I did think it through. Munster Rugby Fans who are Gaa Fans too are a pet hate of mine. Also the "C4" Culture in Cork - Blazers, Daddy's Merc, D4 wannabes etc.
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Post by realist on May 25, 2006 12:23:35 GMT
GO ON TOM!!!!.... but seriously you are oversteppoing the mark a little with that comment. Munster Rugby is a working mans game. It is only the very very small minority that are of the C4 culture as you call it. Of the team the Clare men, tipp men and most of the Limerick contingent sure aint. Also you couldn't call Donnacha O Callaghan a C4 so how many can that leave. ROG? not sure
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Post by FatTom on May 25, 2006 12:24:36 GMT
GO ON TOM!!!!.... but seriously you are oversteppoing the mark a little with that comment. Munster Rugby is a working mans game. It is only the very very small minority that are of the C4 culture as you call it. Of the team the Clare men, tipp men and most of the Limerick contingent sure aint. Also you couldn't call Donnacha O Callaghan a C4 so how many can that leave. ROG? not sure Where did Donncha go to school? As far as I know it was fee paying Christians. There is plenty "C4" in Munster- some in the team, a lot in the fans.
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Post by realist on May 25, 2006 12:37:47 GMT
yea he did but sure couldn't you apply the same theory to all ex-Sem boys then?
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Post by FatTom on May 25, 2006 12:43:35 GMT
SEM isn't fee paying. Paying for board is slightly different than fellas paying to be accepted which is often dependent on daddy!
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Post by scooter on May 25, 2006 12:53:17 GMT
Fattom who cares about the small group of people from "C4" as u call it.....it seems to me that ur a bit jealous of the old munster rugby set up and their success.....and makin reference to the railway cup being not supported is petty as we all know why dat doesnt get the support because the players themselves dont give a sh*te bout it and the GAA themselves dont even promote it
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Post by gaadevotee on May 25, 2006 13:08:04 GMT
Tom what have you got against Munster fans in fairness. The vast majority of forummers are avid rugby supporters as well and were delighted to see Munster, our rugby team, win on saturday. Are rugby supporters not allowed to be gaa supporters or something?? talkin thru yer hole i reckon more like it!
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Post by FatTom on May 25, 2006 13:08:43 GMT
Even if it was do you think it would get the fans in the gate? I don't think so. Only reason I could possibly be jealous of Munster is if I was from Leinster, Ulster or Connaught or passionate about some other team in the Heineken Cup. I'm not. I was delighted to see Munster win. No problem with the team or most of the players albeit Rugby is on the elitist side in places plus I'm not so gone on the lack of skill involved in the game itself. At the same time even Munster Rugby aside I have never seen Munster as part of my identity whereas Kerry is. I, for that reason, find this Munster by the grace of god stuff amusing. Especially for fans of sports like GAA where they never considered supporting Munster even if there was more interest in the Railway Cup - hence what I like to call a MOCKERY! Bandwagon if there ever was one. How many of those fans will be supporting Killarney or Tralee? Or Cork Con or Dolphins? Not a lot one would imagine!
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Post by scooter on May 25, 2006 13:30:01 GMT
fattom you cannot call people who have supported munster over the last 10 years bandwagon supporters.......i for one have seen munster beaten in 2 heineken cup finals and semi and quarter finals....in other words thru all the defeats and heart ache...and i can tell you this anyone i know has followed munster to the same extent.....and anyone on this forum will say the same(except for you that is)....and you never seen munster as part of ur identity...wat about the munster championship etc....stop talkin Sh*te Fattom and be greatful we actually have a decent rugby team to support
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Post by kerrystar on May 25, 2006 13:34:24 GMT
Erra Munster rugby is a bit of a bandwagon alright was in cardiff myself brilliant fun.What harm. Can't see their success being repeated too often, especially in a cup competition.
Mickmack makes a good point about the Heineken Cup and the format making for very few meaningless games. The football championship at the moment has very few meaningful games(ie Kerry v Cork July 9th is Kerry's first meaningful game). There's loyalty involved in watching us stroll to wins over tipp and waterford but the fans want excitement too. The backdoor system has had its day I think,just prolonging the agony for weaker teams. Colm O'Rourke was in charge of a Football Development Committee a couple of years ago which came up with a championship consisting of something three grades of 11 teams each. Each would play each other once in a league format. This involved scrapping the league and starting the champ around march. Was a lot to be said for it Kerry voted in favour of it but I think the Ulster counties were against and it got shot down at congress circa 2002/2003
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Post by FatTom on May 25, 2006 13:42:17 GMT
fattom you cannot call people who have supported munster over the last 10 years bandwagon supporters.......i for one have seen munster beaten in 2 heineken cup finals and semi and quarter finals....in other words thru all the defeats and heart ache...and i can tell you this anyone i know has followed munster to the same extent.....and anyone on this forum will say the same(except for you that is)....and you never seen munster as part of ur identity...wat about the munster championship etc....stop talkin Sh*te Fattom and be greatful we actually have a decent rugby team to support We participate in Munster but I have never considered us a sporting entity which was my initial point. If there is so much passion and pride about being Munsterish, Munsteronian or whatever the f*ck you wanna call it why is there no support for Munster in the Railway Cup. I have no problem with people supporting Munster - its the bandwagon and this 'Munster by Grace of God' crap. Its all well and good to associate ourselves with a decent, hard working if not spectacular side in a game that requires very little natural skill but at the same time if being Munster is by the Grace of God then surely we would express this great grace in more ways than one competition.
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Boris
Full Member
Posts: 238
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Post by Boris on May 25, 2006 14:36:56 GMT
The Munster thing is a pure bandwagon.I know plenty of people who went to Cardiff for a weekend of beer and craic.The match was only a small part of it. The Munster case shows the GAA the danger of professionalism. In Ireland now there is about 50 elite players but at the same time the ordinary club game is dying on its feet.The GAA would be nothing without its vibrant club scene
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Post by gaadevotee on May 25, 2006 15:01:44 GMT
how can you compare the Heineken cup and the Railway Cup. The Heineken cup is the biggest club rubgy competition in the world. The Railway cup is a joke at this stage. How can u say the match was only a small part of it Boris...it was the f*ckin reason they went over dere in the 1st place! are ya tellin me that when kerry are in croke park thousands of kerry people think that the beer and the craic means nothin and its all about the game?? nonsense. get a grip lads
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Post by FatTom on May 25, 2006 15:04:45 GMT
how can you compare the Heineken cup and the Railway Cup. The Heineken cup is the biggest club rubgy competition in the world. The Railway cup is a joke at this stage. How can u say the match was only a small part of it Boris...it was the f*ckin reason they went over dere in the 1st place! are ya tellin me that when kerry are in croke park thousands of kerry people think that the beer and the craic means nothin and its all about the game?? nonsense. get a grip lads Because they both involve a team by the name of Munster!!!!!!!! The Railway Cup is a joke at this stage largely due to poor support by these so called BLESSED Munster fans.
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MrT
Full Member
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Post by MrT on May 25, 2006 15:46:52 GMT
noting wrong with fellas supporting munster or indeed a "foreign sport", we r not stuck in the early 1900's any more for god's sake.some of the palyers on the munster team are a pure inspiration ROG,strings,O Callaghan,the bull,falnnery,O Connell pure legends
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Post by gaadevotee on May 25, 2006 16:04:02 GMT
i agree Mr T! The Railway Cup is a completely secondary GAA competition whereas the Heinken Cup is one of Rugby's greatest prizes. So you cant blame people for not attending the former
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Post by FatTom on May 25, 2006 16:35:45 GMT
noting wrong with fellas supporting munster or indeed a "foreign sport", we r not stuck in the early 1900's any more for god's sake.some of the palyers on the munster team are a pure inspiration ROG,strings,O Callaghan,the bull,falnnery,O Connell pure legends No one said there was. And another thing shouldn't that be liginds!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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falveyb2k
Fanatical Member
"The way this man played today, if there was a flood he'd walk on water. Jack O Shea"
Posts: 1,920
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Post by falveyb2k on May 25, 2006 21:03:07 GMT
I wouldn't worry about it, Munster attract a crazy number of bandwagon jumpers and they're the last kind of people you want supporting your team. Munster have averaged between 4,000 and 7,000 fans for home games in the Celtic league this year yet around 70,000 of them managed to show up in Cardiff! Just look at club rugby in Ireland, it's practically dead with tiny attendances and the likes of Tony Ward have highlighted this again and again. The biggest threat to the GAA are themselves, ie. player welfare, club scheduling, youth development etc.
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Post by SteelFixer on May 26, 2006 8:12:52 GMT
This discussion is getting stupid ! Every team that is successful will have band wagon supporters, it goes with the territory ! Kerry has as many as anybody ! Just watch out for what the attendances will be like at the SFC games over the weekend and then look at the Kerry support at the Munster final and All Ireland series !
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Post by kerrygold on May 26, 2006 9:20:07 GMT
I wouldn't worry about it, Munster attract a crazy number of bandwagon jumpers and they're the last kind of people you want supporting your team. Munster have averaged between 4,000 and 7,000 fans for home games in the Celtic league this year yet around 70,000 of them managed to show up in Cardiff! Just look at club rugby in Ireland, it's practically dead with tiny attendances and the likes of Tony Ward have highlighted this again and again. The biggest threat to the GAA are themselves, ie. player welfare, club scheduling, youth development etc. spot on,well said.
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Post by Mickmack on May 27, 2006 23:27:22 GMT
Still though......... we could learn from the way the heineken cup is structured..........no meaningless matches.......bonus points etc........... our championship is shambolic in comparison
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Post by watchdahop on May 29, 2006 15:42:32 GMT
Great article by Tom Humphries in the Locker Room in todays Irish Time. He hit the nail in the head as only he can. Recommended reading.
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Post by buck02 on May 29, 2006 15:52:42 GMT
Were tickets for Munsters match on Saturday going for €500 on e-bay? Were they fcuk, it wasnt even a sell out - I'm with FT on this one. Still & all, us Kerry people cant talk too much about bandwagons, our doesnt get going till the all ireland final whens suddenly its glamorous to go to a Kerry match.
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Post by kerrydoc on May 29, 2006 15:54:55 GMT
Great article by Tom Humphries in the Locker Room in todays Irish Time. He hit the nail in the head as only he can. Recommended reading. any cahnce u could post it?
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Post by watchdahop on May 29, 2006 16:08:48 GMT
I dont have online acess to it but maybe someone else does? Its a good article!!
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Post by watchdahop on May 29, 2006 16:50:03 GMT
Cup mania should drive GAA to drink
Tom Humphries, Irish Times, 29 May 2006
Now even though the trigger finger is a little itchy we're not here to shoot holes in the Heineken Cup. Nope. We come in peace. We mean no harm. Also we appreciate that for the men and women working in the coalmines and ironworks and assembly lines of Limerick the cup is a fantastic escape from the grey drudgery of everyday life. That alone makes Munster "different".
We understand too that Munster rugby claims immunity from all ribaldry and ballyragging by virtue of the fact that in Limerick the salt-of-the-earth working man would rather watch rugby than watch his own back in a knife fight. We're not saying it justifies Pat Kenny poncing about in a Munster jersey on the Late Late but we're saying it's enough for us to resolve to leave matters be.
One thing though - and not a criticism, more a point of wonder. The Heineken Cup is a miracle of modern-day marketing and hype. Never have so many got so excited over a sports event with so little history attached. The trophy itself doesn't even have a name apart from that of its sponsor (only rugby could get away with that, surely).
It's only yesterday Young Munster were touchy about anyone calling their home patch the Killing Fields and Garryowen, their well-to-do neighbours, were slugging it out with them for the new-fangled All Ireland league and people used to injunct against any sl*gging of Limerick rugby because Young Munster were "sound like".
Now all of Munster has appropriated Young Munster's soundness and this cup is an immense annual distraction in Irish life. Somehow it has plugged itself into the small, cynicism-free part of the national imagination and become a certified holy grail. In doing so it has bypassed all the requirements of history or tradition.
Good luck to the Heino and all who sail in it. If there's a lesson for other sports this year it lies in the cup and its boldness. If the game itself is a decent product there is no need to be afraid of change. In a time of transition the adventures of Munster in the competition have added significantly to the aggregate interest in rugby in the province. Nobody pines for winter and the rites of the old Munster Senior Cup.
The cup has captured the zeitgeist of post-Celtic Tiger Ireland with its love of sensation and phenomenon. The fact the cup is a triumph of marketing in a way just adds to the triumph of the marketing. It's new and different and in many ways that's the point. It's like why we stopped drinking Harp although Heineken and Carlsberg tasted the same. We just thirsted after something new.
We got to thinking about all this as we sat resplendent above in the splendid press box in Semple Stadium gazing absentmindedly down at the intermediate match that preceded the main event yesterday. The continuity and history of Munster hurling always give one pause for thought and genuflection, and as we sat there we were tinkering with the idea about doing a column on Jimmy Smyth.
On June 5th 1955 Jimmy played on the Clare team which beat Cork down on the this very turf in Semple Stadium in this self-same Munster championship. Jimmy scored the last two points to put Christy Ring's team away.
(Jimmy's career, by the way, is proof in a way that there is nothing new under the sun when it comes to prodigies. He won three All-Ireland colleges titles with Flannan's, had five seasons as a Clare county minor and in the 1953 Munster championship scored 6-4 against Limerick. Imagine the fuss we'd have made in the papers.)
In Thurles yesterday though - despite the excellence of the preamble which was last year's All-Ireland semi-final, despite the long, musty history of clashes between Cork and Clare, despite the clemency of the weather, the proximity of the venue and the honed tradition of the Munster championship - there were a few gaps in the stands and at the Killinan end. Not a bad attendance but just not brimful.
Now it's not that people don't want to watch Clare and Cork. If they meet at Croke Park later in the year tickets will be as a scarce as hens' teeth so great will be the multitude of hurling lovers who need to get there. But Croke Park itself is part of the new shininess we love and crave. Any game in Croke Park is an occasion and a day out and I'd venture the stadium and its facilities have in the past few years boosted attendances regardless of the games.
It was good at Thurles yesterday but it didn't have the feel of a great occasion that was engaging a huge segment of society. There are many reasons for this. The aggressive and ingenious marketing by Heineken in the cause of rugby wouldn't be tolerated if the GAA were to attempt it in partnership with Guinness.
It is interesting that though Heineken are all over the rugby competition like a rash there hasn't been a whimper of protest from those who habitually pull across the ankles of the GAA for their rather more proper association with Guinness.
Then there is the nature of the coverage rugby's European Cup receives in this country. Not even the Irish soccer team (especially not, they would argue) get the partisan coverage and commentary our rugby participants receive in some quarters.
There are honourable exceptions of course, but this rugby cup more than any event in recent memory benefits from the absence of journalism and the harooing of cheerleaders.
This is of course a happy bonus which comes to some sporting occasions virtually unbidden. You could call it the Pat Kenny effect. When Pat is wearing a Munster jersey on Friday night on the Late Late Show and Ray D'Arcy is getting excited in the mornings on radio it doesn't matter that Munster play dull rugby or the competition is younger than anyone that plays in it. Somehow it has caught the imagination.
Cork and Clare began yesterday like two bantamweights determined to get a knockout of some sort by the first bell. It was cracking stuff - a continuation of a line of rivalry going back to the time of our great-grandparents and beyond.
When you think of all the blood sweat and tears which have been absorbed into its turf, Semple Stadium should be a national shrine.
Yet its proposed 18-million revamp can't come quick enough. There is nowhere in the country that we'd prefer to go for the friendliness, efficiency and atmosphere, yet the European Cup in rugby teaches us we have to keep moving and reinventing ourselves for the times we live in.
We're a shallow, fickle people at the end of the day, the sort of folk who don't know what we've got till it's gone. Hurling for all its wonder is stuck in a rut these times. Clare, the golden boys of the 90s revolution, were swatted away yesterday. Kilkenny will do likewise to Offaly and Wexford in Leinster. The game needs all the things Croke Park has been doing quietly - development and evangelisation - but it also needs something the rugby people have done so well. It needs selling, glitz, hype and razzmatazz. Heineken have done that job well. The old Guinness ads when they undertook the sponsorship of the hurling All-Irelands did that too but they petered out. Club Energise do it wonderfully.
There needs to be more though. Not just for hurling but for domestic soccer, etc.
The European Cup in rugby, the ice hockey in Belfast - they prove one thing: people won't come just because you stage an event; people will come if you create a buzz.
Time to learn from the Heino, chaps. Bring on the Jodinho ads.
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