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Post by kerrybhoy06 on Sept 3, 2023 10:17:55 GMT
The change that I would make, and I have long advocated for this, is that the divisional sides strength should be assessed on a yearly/bi-yearly basis with a cap put on each teams clubs and the levels that these clubs play at.
The original driving force behind the divisional sides was to give players exposure at county championship level, not necessarily to allow super teams ti develop and go on to dominate for periods.
East Kerry have been a great example over the last few years and I know they have lost Rathmore now but realistically they should have been and still could be rearranged into 2 divisional sides. We had a situation whereby Donal O Sullivan from Kilgarvin was training with the Kerry panel but couldn’t start for EK- that’s when you know there’s a problem
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Premier
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Post by Premier on Sept 4, 2023 7:39:40 GMT
I think our county championship should be commended but I do think tweaks should be made. I don't think any divisional side should have more than 6 clubs for starters. South Kerry will be comprised of 8 teams this year and will arguably have the weakest team they’ve had in 20 years playing, with no club operating above division 3. How do you separate that with trying to keep it to max 6 clubs? Also relocating teams to other divisions?
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horsebox77
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Post by horsebox77 on Sept 4, 2023 8:34:18 GMT
As much as a diehard that I am, I have to admit that the club structure and championship has surpassed the County Championship in recent years for entertainment and quality. It is still the prestigious competition as it always was, however, the fact the club championship winners progress in Munster if a divisional side wins the competition, may have diluted it’s standing among senior clubs. The prime example was Strand Road last year, made a conscious effort to win the senior club championship, as like most they envisaged that East Kerry would win the county championship, this therefore, was their avenue to Munster success and Corker exploits.
It has also been said, that certain, county players may forgo the early rounds with their divisional side to concentrate on club success, again, there is merit and justice to that ethos of thinking, club comes first. The primary reason that divisional sides were permitted, was to enable every club player the opportunity to play county championship football and put himself out there for county recognition. This is still partly the case, yes, it still provides an avenue to play at county championship level, but considering the current Coiste na Óg structure, development squads and structured schools football at post primary schools level, the chances of an elite player falling through the cracks is very minimal if that at all.
Yes, it needs tweaking, she has become outdated. I always say, one can make a genuine case or argument of everything, if one said thirty years ago that the Railway Cup would fizzle out, you’d be lynched from the nearest goal post, so I’m not so naive to think the county championship is sacrosanct. It does need attention, for me the Divisional sides should play in a round robin or preliminary round and then join the senior clubs in phase two.
I’m not going into what is best, or a revolutionary new format with groups etc, however, I know personally what I would like, knockout ball, simplistic knockout format. Some will say, ah it takes the divisional sides games to get up to scratch. Well, if the divisional boards have ambitions, then, get their house in order early doors and address. If I had my way, I would simply as follows…
Eight divisional teams play each other in a knockout open draw, winners progress, losers out. Eight Club teams play, open draw, winners to quarter final, Club losers get second chance against the four divisional winners… winners progress to quarters.. losers gone.
Four rounds and the competition is at the County Final Stage…
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Post by royalkerryfan on Sept 4, 2023 8:45:13 GMT
Some really insightful and interesting views in this thread.
We certainly seem to be asking our star players to play too much football.
Could the club and county championship not be amalgamated and as Kerrybhoy said above divisional teams are reviewed on a yearly basis along with Micks suggestion that the clubs they can draw from are restricted.
I worry for county players getting zero time away from the game.
Terrible to say but sometimes you are hoping their clubs are beaten so they get a break and it shouldn't be like that.
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moth
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Post by moth on Sept 4, 2023 10:59:52 GMT
Some really insightful and interesting views in this thread. We certainly seem to be asking our star players to play too much football. Could the club and county championship not be amalgamated and as Kerrybhoy said above divisional teams are reviewed on a yearly basis along with Micks suggestion that the clubs they can draw from are restricted. I worry for county players getting zero time away from the game. Terrible to say but sometimes you are hoping their clubs are beaten so they get a break and it shouldn't be like that. I agree with split, but I'd have 12 senior clubs in 3 groups of 4. Top 6 qualify for knockout stages of club & county championship (2 Quarters & 2 semis in club championship). Divisional teams play off in knockout format for 2 remaining places in county championship {open draw quarter finals}.
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Post by listowelemerrs on Sept 4, 2023 11:51:42 GMT
Lord Jesus above in heaven. I’ve heard it all now! Scrap the County SFC. The main competition in the county. One of the keys for developing Kerry players from clubs of all levels over the years. One can only pray that nobody in any position of influence is having such idiotic notions. you are looking at it from a backward view. We don’t need the county championship anymore. It holds nothing of significance anymore. Seriously, where’s the fun in divisional teams playing club teams? It doesn’t make sense about 6 or 7 teams playing 1 club. If you win, how can you even relish it. Holding the whole show up regarding club local championships. The county board need to take action and scrap this competition right now. Simple as. The club championships across all stages this year have been amazing , that game yesterday between fossa and castelisland was one of the best in a long time. Do we we really want to be watching dingle against south Kerry or crokes against mid kerry. No one cares anymore and also evidenced by the crowds at these games in recent years. As a Kerry fan, I do not want the 2 Clifford’s , Sean o se, tom Sullivan, gavin whites and others of this world playing irrelevant matches that ultimately mean nothing. This competition has lost its importance. Sometimes we have to evolve, I loved the county championship but the way the game is gone , there’s no room for it anymore. I really hope that rumour that the Clifford’s aren’t playing with east Kerry are true. It’s gone to high level. Kerry players are playing from Jan to Jan. joe o connor, Gavin white , David Moran, numerous others have picked up injuries as a result of this competition being stretched out to November , December.
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Post by royalkerryfan on Sept 4, 2023 12:51:59 GMT
Lord Jesus above in heaven. I’ve heard it all now! Scrap the County SFC. The main competition in the county. One of the keys for developing Kerry players from clubs of all levels over the years. One can only pray that nobody in any position of influence is having such idiotic notions. you are looking at it from a backward view. We don’t need the county championship anymore. It holds nothing of significance anymore. Seriously, where’s the fun in divisional teams playing club teams? It doesn’t make sense about 6 or 7 teams playing 1 club. If you win, how can you even relish it. Holding the whole show up regarding club local championships. The county board need to take action and scrap this competition right now. Simple as. The club championships across all stages this year have been amazing , that game yesterday between fossa and castelisland was one of the best in a long time. Do we we really want to be watching dingle against south Kerry or crokes against mid kerry. No one cares anymore and also evidenced by the crowds at these games in recent years. As a Kerry fan, I do not want the 2 Clifford’s , Sean o se, tom Sullivan, gavin whites and others of this world playing irrelevant matches that ultimately mean nothing. This competition has lost its importance. Sometimes we have to evolve, I loved the county championship but the way the game is gone , there’s no room for it anymore. I really hope that rumour that the Clifford’s aren’t playing with east Kerry are true. It’s gone to high level. Kerry players are playing from Jan to Jan. joe o connor, Gavin white , David Moran, numerous others have picked up injuries as a result of this competition being stretched out to November , December. When I initially saw your comments I disagreed with it but it is thought provoking. I think the split season has brought it much more into focus just the sheer amount of football we are asking the county players to play. Clifford's will play a full intermediate and then a full senior championship finishing up in Oct and then back to Kerry around Christmas if not before. I think change is needed in that respect.
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Post by blacksheep21 on Sept 4, 2023 16:29:41 GMT
A few different things are being mixed up here. The main issue to solve for is the amount of games across August, September and October. This is easily fixed and just requires some tweaking to the format to reduce the load. There is no chance the divisions will be excluded from the county championship, it is still a system that serves Kerry well and while the under age squads will highlight the main stars, there are plenty of others that prosper when playing with their divisions that would not otherwise.
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Post by orangerhyme on Sept 4, 2023 16:36:57 GMT
South Kerry will be comprised of 8 teams this year and will arguably have the weakest team they’ve had in 20 years playing, with no club operating above division 3. How do you separate that with trying to keep it to max 6 clubs? Also relocating teams to other divisions? Tbh I'm not sure but maybe that's the luck of the draw if a team are weak but surely 6 teams is enough. The East Kery situation is kind of crazy as if Crokes were relegated they would be as strong as big county teams. At the mó East Kerry would beat many counties. I don't have the answer but having too many clubs in a district team is unfair on some players who have less chance of playing county championship. I love our championship but I believe it should be re structured a little. Maybe it should be adjusted for number of playing population rather than number of clubs. So that South Kerry can have more clubs than East Kerry but similar number of playing population. I feel this is fairest solution. Lots of the South Kerry clubs are dying out unfortunately.
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Premier
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Post by Premier on Sept 4, 2023 17:18:00 GMT
Tbh I'm not sure but maybe that's the luck of the draw if a team are weak but surely 6 teams is enough. The East Kery situation is kind of crazy as if Crokes were relegated they would be as strong as big county teams. At the mó East Kerry would beat many counties. I don't have the answer but having too many clubs in a district team is unfair on some players who have less chance of playing county championship. I love our championship but I believe it should be re structured a little. Maybe it should be adjusted for number of playing population rather than number of clubs. So that South Kerry can have more clubs than East Kerry but similar number of playing population. I feel this is fairest solution. Lots of the South Kerry clubs are dying out unfortunately. There is a delicate balancing act here whereby you want clubs to maintain a connection to a certain area as that is the reason that the divisional system works. I don’t know how it was ever passed that Kilgarvan would join East Kerry instead of South Kerry when Kenmare District disbanded. 3/4 Kilgarvan players would be on the SK team and would have been great to showcase them. As a result of Kilgarvan going to East Kerry, nothing good came of it. The reality is if East Kerry weren’t in this year’s championship, then it would be an unbelievable championship to look forward to. No district would be too strong, no club running away with it. It’s just a shame that they are the behemoth they are which consumes the narrative around it. I would have been in favour of bringing back Eoghan Ruadh (Glenflesk, Gneevguilla, Kilcummin) leaving EK with Fossa, Listry, Firies, Legion. Arguably these would be the two favourites even if they did split. With the Crokes Park directive about 16 teams, I don’t know what solution is best
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Post by thekingdom on Sept 4, 2023 17:35:34 GMT
Fossa & Listry were very weak not so long ago but not the case anymore. Whatever about the Dubs but east kerry needs to be split in 2.
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Post by orangerhyme on Sept 4, 2023 18:47:37 GMT
Maybe it should be adjusted for number of playing population rather than number of clubs. So that South Kerry can have more clubs than East Kerry but similar number of playing population. I feel this is fairest solution. Lots of the South Kerry clubs are dying out unfortunately. There is a delicate balancing act here whereby you want clubs to maintain a connection to a certain area as that is the reason that the divisional system works. I don’t know how it was ever passed that Kilgarvan would join East Kerry instead of South Kerry when Kenmare District disbanded. 3/4 Kilgarvan players would be on the SK team and would have been great to showcase them. As a result of Kilgarvan going to East Kerry, nothing good came of it. The reality is if East Kerry weren’t in this year’s championship, then it would be an unbelievable championship to look forward to. No district would be too strong, no club running away with it. It’s just a shame that they are the behemoth they are which consumes the narrative around it. I would have been in favour of bringing back Eoghan Ruadh (Glenflesk, Gneevguilla, Kilcummin) leaving EK with Fossa, Listry, Firies, Legion. Arguably these would be the two favourites even if they did split. With the Crokes Park directive about 16 teams, I don’t know what solution is best Good point about Kilgarvan. I guess logically it's closer to East Kerry. But common sense should've prevailed. Maybe they could come up with some type of formula that takes clubs ranking in league and championship in consideration along with playing population. Shouldn't be too difficult for a statistician to come up with something.
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Post by shannonsider on Sept 4, 2023 19:47:08 GMT
A few different things are being mixed up here. The main issue to solve for is the amount of games across August, September and October. This is easily fixed and just requires some tweaking to the format to reduce the load. There is no chance the divisions will be excluded from the county championship, it is still a system that serves Kerry well and while the under age squads will highlight the main stars, there are plenty of others that prosper when playing with their divisions that would not otherwise. Exactly. There is tweaking to be done, this system is new. Clearly there are issues with schedules that can be worked on. But as you say, there is no way Divisions being excluded does anything but damage the Kerry system. Lets say Fossa lose a few players and drop down to Premier Junior or Junior again in a few years (not likely but just for sake of argument). From July to December David and Paudie Clifford could end up playing only 3 games at Junior club level if there was no East Kerry. The Senior championship, the players themselves and the paying public would be all the worse for it. Same for Graham O'Sullivan, Donal Down or any other player not playing with a Senior club. I genuinely don't think people who espouse the opinion getting rid of divisions is an option have considered the effects it would have all through the Kerry system. Our Senior championship is a magical thing really that is fairly unique and egalitarian in that ANY player from ANY club gets a chance to play in it. In Cork there is a type of Divisional system but they are on the verge of eradicating it because A)The big clubs in hurling especially hold a lot of sway and see them as a threat B)There is a complete lack of vision and C)They have huge numbers of games with Football and Hurling and it's hard to fit it all in. I sincerely hope we do not go down anything like that path. We've been very lucky to have not only great players and managers over the years but great visionaries like Gerald McKenna who came up with the county leagues idea. I can only hope and pray our current and future administrators keep the county SFC format but if some tweaking is needed to it that would improve the fairness of the competition, so be it. I see at U15 level there are now 2 teams in the championship, East Kerry and Eoghan Ruadh instead of just one big behemoth. Maybe that sort of thing can happen to level the playing field. Even in my own area, yes it's good to have players from North Kerry playing in and winning county titles but there is definitely enough talent to have 2 teams at Minor and U20 in my view at least.
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mossie
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Post by mossie on Sept 4, 2023 23:14:40 GMT
The Divisional Teams are no longer required for many of the reasons that they were set up
One of the main reasons for them was that every player had a shop window for the kerry senior selectors
This was pre development squads, nearly every young lad going to college & playing 3rd level football, mass social media reporting of club matches, the increase in the number and quality of club matches at junior and intermediate level in the club championship. With all of the above now is there really any chance of a player slipping through the net for the kerry seniors in the absence of divisional teams?
The fact that some divisional teams hardly train before the competition starts is a signal in itself something has to give and when you hear Paudie Clifford comment like he did well then that is another sign
I cant see the divisions being scrapped such is the tradition of them in Kerry football but the load of matches needs to be looked at. There are some good suggestions on how this could be addressed on this thread
Do we have to have a round robin format in both county and club championship? in fact do we need them in either. Guarantee each team two matches and let that be it, there is a format for that.
Maybe if the club championship was ran off with a back door format ( losers round) and the two club finalists advance to the county championship semi final , seperately have the divisions playing in their own competition with back door format (losers round) and the last 2 left standing join the two club finalist in the county championship semi finals
Before any one gets too upset about losing too many matches, well the above would free up the calendar a bit to give a bit of breathing space and prestige back to the District Board championships which really have been shoved to the bottom of the agenda
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mossie
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Post by mossie on Sept 4, 2023 23:19:14 GMT
There is a delicate balancing act here whereby you want clubs to maintain a connection to a certain area as that is the reason that the divisional system works. I don’t know how it was ever passed that Kilgarvan would join East Kerry instead of South Kerry when Kenmare District disbanded. 3/4 Kilgarvan players would be on the SK team and would have been great to showcase them. As a result of Kilgarvan going to East Kerry, nothing good came of it. The reality is if East Kerry weren’t in this year’s championship, then it would be an unbelievable championship to look forward to. No district would be too strong, no club running away with it. It’s just a shame that they are the behemoth they are which consumes the narrative around it. I would have been in favour of bringing back Eoghan Ruadh (Glenflesk, Gneevguilla, Kilcummin) leaving EK with Fossa, Listry, Firies, Legion. Arguably these would be the two favourites even if they did split. With the Crokes Park directive about 16 teams, I don’t know what solution is best Good point about Kilgarvan. I guess logically it's closer to East Kerry. But common sense should've prevailed. Maybe they could come up with some type of formula that takes clubs ranking in league and championship in consideration along with playing population. Shouldn't be too difficult for a statistician to come up with something. What division can a player from Tousist play with? It makes sense for Kilgarvan and Tousist to be in the south kerry pot Donal Down, John Mark Foley, Gearoud Fennessy, Daniel Casey would all have started for South Kerry in 2022, as it happened Donal Down scarcely played 80 mins in the whole county championship with East Kerry
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mossie
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Post by mossie on Sept 4, 2023 23:23:46 GMT
A few different things are being mixed up here. The main issue to solve for is the amount of games across August, September and October. This is easily fixed and just requires some tweaking to the format to reduce the load. There is no chance the divisions will be excluded from the county championship, it is still a system that serves Kerry well and while the under age squads will highlight the main stars, there are plenty of others that prosper when playing with their divisions that would not otherwise. Exactly. There is tweaking to be done, this system is new. Clearly there are issues with schedules that can be worked on. But as you say, there is no way Divisions being excluded does anything but damage the Kerry system. Lets say Fossa lose a few players and drop down to Premier Junior or Junior again in a few years (not likely but just for sake of argument). From July to December David and Paudie Clifford could end up playing only 3 games at Junior club level if there was no East Kerry. The Senior championship, the players themselves and the paying public would be all the worse for it. Same for Graham O'Sullivan, Donal Down or any other player not playing with a Senior club. I genuinely don't think people who espouse the opinion getting rid of divisions is an option have considered the effects it would have all through the Kerry system. Our Senior championship is a magical thing really that is fairly unique and egalitarian in that ANY player from ANY club gets a chance to play in it. In Cork there is a type of Divisional system but they are on the verge of eradicating it because A)The big clubs in hurling especially hold a lot of sway and see them as a threat B)There is a complete lack of vision and C)They have huge numbers of games with Football and Hurling and it's hard to fit it all in. I sincerely hope we do not go down anything like that path. We've been very lucky to have not only great players and managers over the years but great visionaries like Gerald McKenna who came up with the county leagues idea. I can only hope and pray our current and future administrators keep the county SFC format but if some tweaking is needed to it that would improve the fairness of the competition, so be it. I see at U15 level there are now 2 teams in the championship, East Kerry and Eoghan Ruadh instead of just one big behemoth. Maybe that sort of thing can happen to level the playing field. Even in my own area, yes it's good to have players from North Kerry playing in and winning county titles but there is definitely enough talent to have 2 teams at Minor and U20 in my view at least. well the players would also have matches in the east kerry championship. The Cliffords didnt play O'Donoghue cup in 2022, there are other examples of where the top players didnt really bother with the district championships at the end of the year as they had a belly full of matches by the time they came around Is there any harm in reducing the number of matches at county\club championship and free up the calendar for the like of the EK championship?
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Post by Annascaultilidie on Sept 5, 2023 8:40:48 GMT
It was the move from 12 to 8 senior clubs that created the East Kerry behemoth.
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Premier
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Post by Premier on Sept 5, 2023 9:30:53 GMT
It was the move from 12 to 8 senior clubs that created the East Kerry behemoth. True, but how do you get it back to 12 teams and also make the competition a 16 team competition, as directed by Croke Park
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Post by Annascaultilidie on Sept 5, 2023 9:45:32 GMT
It was the move from 12 to 8 senior clubs that created the East Kerry behemoth. True, but how do you get it back to 12 teams and also make the competition a 16 team competition, as directed by Croke Park Aren't other counties crying about Kerry having only eight senior clubs? Campaign to get it changed back, or an exemption for divisional sides, etc.
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Post by orangerhyme on Sept 5, 2023 12:14:13 GMT
It was the move from 12 to 8 senior clubs that created the East Kerry behemoth. When did that happen?
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Post by Annascaultilidie on Sept 5, 2023 12:19:59 GMT
It was the move from 12 to 8 senior clubs that created the East Kerry behemoth. When did that happen? 2016? I appreciate that East Kerry did not immediately dominate but the likes of Kilcummin, Legion, Spa and to a (much?) lessor extent Rathmore were often in that 9-12 band of senior clubs. Looking at Wikipedia, it says that the Army won the Kerry Intermediate Championship in 1943!
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Premier
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Post by Premier on Sept 5, 2023 13:54:21 GMT
Realistically I think that the current 8 senior teams plus Stacks, Legion Kilcummin and maybe Ghaeltacht if they were full strength would be more than capable of holding their own at senior level. That would instantly weaken EK, even though they still would probably be favourites. It would also have the knock on effect down the divisions whereby the Premier Junior and Junior was won by actually teams of that level. Not superpowered Division 1 teams. It’s all well praising teams for going on to win the all Ireland but realistically it should be more of an achievement rather than it being taken as a given
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Post by orangerhyme on Sept 5, 2023 14:10:00 GMT
2016? I appreciate that East Kerry did not immediately dominate but the likes of Kilcummin, Legion, Spa and to a (much?) lessor extent Rathmore were often in that 9-12 band of senior clubs. Looking at Wikipedia, it says that the Army won the Kerry Intermediate Championship in 1943! The upper intermediate clubs are senior clubs really. Croke Park are correct in saying we should have 16 senior clubs but I guess it's our prerogative to do what we feel is best for Kerry football. In my opinion it devalues our clubs achievements in the Club AI. Fossa did brilliantly last year, but in truth they're a solid intermediate team beating junior teams. I think the best thing for the divisional teams is to have a coefficient for each club based on their form over last 3 seasons maybe, similar to Uefa. Then balance the divisional sides based on geography and coefficients of clubs.
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Post by greengold35 on Sept 5, 2023 19:35:25 GMT
It was the move from 12 to 8 senior clubs that created the East Kerry behemoth. True, but how do you get it back to 12 teams and also make the competition a 16 team competition, as directed by Croke Park Take the 8 existing clubs, add in the 4 intermediate semi finalists & hold a preliminary round of 4 matches between the 8 divisional sides - 16 sides then in the county championships.
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pillar
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Post by pillar on Sept 5, 2023 20:43:20 GMT
True, but how do you get it back to 12 teams and also make the competition a 16 team competition, as directed by Croke Park Take the 8 existing clubs, add in the 4 intermediate semi finalists & hold a preliminary round of 4 matches between the 8 divisional sides - 16 sides then in the county championships. You would only be able to do for one year..and that's by derogation from Central Council. It must be 16 teams, can't have any side roads into it that way.
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Post by Annascaultilidie on Sept 6, 2023 2:26:41 GMT
2016? I appreciate that East Kerry did not immediately dominate but the likes of Kilcummin, Legion, Spa and to a (much?) lessor extent Rathmore were often in that 9-12 band of senior clubs. Looking at Wikipedia, it says that the Army won the Kerry Intermediate Championship in 1943! The upper intermediate clubs are senior clubs really. Croke Park are correct in saying we should have 16 senior clubs but I guess it's our prerogative to do what we feel is best for Kerry football. In my opinion it devalues our clubs achievements in the Club AI. Fossa did brilliantly last year, but in truth they're a solid intermediate team beating junior teams. I think the best thing for the divisional teams is to have a coefficient for each club based on their form over last 3 seasons maybe, similar to Uefa. Then balance the divisional sides based on geography and coefficients of clubs. Croke Park do not say we must have 16 senior clubs.
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pillar
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Post by pillar on Sept 6, 2023 6:58:55 GMT
The upper intermediate clubs are senior clubs really. Croke Park are correct in saying we should have 16 senior clubs but I guess it's our prerogative to do what we feel is best for Kerry football. In my opinion it devalues our clubs achievements in the Club AI. Fossa did brilliantly last year, but in truth they're a solid intermediate team beating junior teams. I think the best thing for the divisional teams is to have a coefficient for each club based on their form over last 3 seasons maybe, similar to Uefa. Then balance the divisional sides based on geography and coefficients of clubs. Croke Park do not say we must have 16 senior clubs. The maximum you can have is 16 teams compete in the County Championship
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Post by homerj on Sept 6, 2023 10:13:49 GMT
surely there has to be a way to have a senior 2 competition or something similiar. having teams relegated from Senior as it stands, is a bit farcical.
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moth
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Post by moth on Sept 6, 2023 11:29:12 GMT
Croke Park do not say we must have 16 senior clubs. The maximum you can have is 16 teams compete in the County Championship We are not the only county to have divisional teams. I've just had a look at how it is run in Cork; they have 12 Senior clubs, a number of divisional teams and 2 college teams. As far as I can make out, the divional/college teams play off before the club championships start, with the winner joining the clubs in the quarter finals. The clubs play off in 3 groups of 4, with 2 teams advancing from each group. It looks like they have 3 quarter finals and 2 semi finals, so I presume that the best performing group winner goes straight to a semi final.
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Post by clarinman on Sept 6, 2023 12:23:42 GMT
The maximum you can have is 16 teams compete in the County Championship We are not the only county to have divisional teams. I've just had a look at how it is run in Cork; they have 12 Senior clubs, a number of divisional teams and 2 college teams. As far as I can make out, the divional/college teams play off before the club championships start, with the winner joining the clubs in the quarter finals. The clubs play off in 3 groups of 4, with 2 teams advancing from each group. It looks like they have 3 quarter finals and 2 semi finals, so I presume that the best performing group winner goes straight to a semi final. As far as I know, some counties such as Cork and Galway have received a derogation on the 16-team rule for this year but must revert to 16 teams for next year. Galway has 17 teams in this years football championship. It was 18 last year and will go to 16 next year.
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