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Post by Mickmack on Jul 29, 2022 10:13:47 GMT
Or better still, just talk about players who want to play for Kerry!
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Post by thehermit on Jul 29, 2022 12:05:00 GMT
Ok sticking to the topic parameters is David Clifford already the greatest player of these 25 years of Kerry GAA history alone?
Would anyone be brave enough to suggest he isn't? Personally he's so unique its hard to compare anyone else like for like.
But Seamus, Tom Sull, Mick Mac etc were definitely better tacklers!
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Post by ciarrai78 on Jul 29, 2022 14:34:57 GMT
It's too early to say DC is "the greatest" we have seen in 25 years, and out of respect to Gooch and Maurice Fitz, I wouldn't do so just yet. That said, the fact that we are even talking in such terms speaks volumes. He is certainly unique and his temperament and ability to handle pressure is remarkable for someone of his age.
Getting back to the team of 25 years, I was thinking of about the players that have not been mentioned on this thread and Eoin Brosnan came to mind. After being thrown in at the deep end as Captain in 2001, he certainly performed well for us on the big stage in the following years mainly in the half forward line, as a midfielder in 2004 final when we were plagued by injuries and then as a converted centre back. I'm convinced that we would have held on in 2011 had he not been taken off late in the game. So honorable mention to Eoin Brosnan ......
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Post by homerj on Jul 29, 2022 14:38:20 GMT
David is amazing, but has a bit to go yet to be classed as better than the Gooch IMO. googh was at the top for 11-12 years, thats what the standard is. Maurice was simply incredible and another standard bearer though of course 88-96 is outside the period of 25 years. still tho, 97 Maurice was the peak of Kerry football individual genius.
most certainly though, David is well on his way.
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Post by thehermit on Jul 29, 2022 15:00:32 GMT
I tend to agree, he's too young and his career so far has been too short for him to already be called definitively the greatest Kerry player. He's is already one of the greatest though! Just need a few more Celtic Crosses and a few more performances like last Sunday to win me over yet Davey
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Post by homerj on Jul 29, 2022 17:56:21 GMT
whod be our greatest ever player as it stands?
Jacko? Maurice?
Spillane?
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fitz
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Post by fitz on Jul 29, 2022 21:42:53 GMT
I think your greatness diminishes in time once you exit the stage. Gooch won 8 All Stars, some with a team past its best, 2010,2013. He always played well in finals and in big moments bar 09 final. Two feet, frees, ball winner…he was class, consistently class and did it for 11 years, he was the first I can remember using the hop dummies
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Post by thehermit on Jul 29, 2022 22:09:27 GMT
I think your greatness diminishes in time once you exit the stage. Gooch won 8 All Stars, some with a team past its best, 2010,2013. He always played well in finals and in big moments bar 09 final. Two feet, frees, ball winner…he was class, consistently class and did it for 11 years, he was the first I can remember using the hop dummies Definitely true, Gooch was something very very special alright and those morons that used claim he never did it in a final! Blindness alas has no cure.
Two of the greatest ever performances I saw in the green and gold were Gooch 2013 v Dublin and Declan a year later v Cork.
Declan often gets overshadowed by Gooch, but my God WHAT A BALLER.
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Post by thehermit on Jul 29, 2022 22:18:23 GMT
whod be our greatest ever player as it stands? Jacko? Maurice? Spillane? Problem is not just recency bias when assessing these things but television bias. Because there is little to no footage before the mid-1960s (indeed you could argue up to the 1990s considering how few games were broadcast live) you'll always give more weight to those that played then.
I remember a well known GAA journalist telling me that when he was covering our golden years team in the late 70s/80s he would always come across men in their 60s, 70s and 80s who said Micko's 4 in a row team was inferior to the one of Sheehy, Barrett, Brosnan, Russell, Landers, Walsh, Stack etc.
When you read up on the history so many of those players were spoken every bit as highly as any great from the last 30 years you can name.
What about Dick Fitz stealing the show in All Ireland finals when he was barely 17, in a game that when he started still had 17 aside and you'd be lucky to see more than 5-6 points each given how defensive it was, the poor quality of pitches, heaviness of the ball etc.
He can't have been the first person in GAA's history to transcend the sport into popular Irish culture for nothing!
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Post by homerj on Aug 2, 2022 9:52:03 GMT
my own team -
1- Diarmuid Murphy 2- Marc 3 - Seamus 4 - Tom Sullivan (Rathmore) 5 - Tomas 6 - O Mahoney 7 - Galvin 8 - Darragh 9 - David Moran 10- Declan 11 - Seanie Shea 12 - Maurice 13 - Gooch 14 - Donaghy 15 - Clifford
kills me to leave out MFR, Flaherty, Mccarthy.
to complete a 24 - Shane Ryan Sheehan James O Donoghue Eamon Fitz William Kirby O Cinnede
any more takers?
a little bit of creativity to fit everybody in so had to go with Galvin at 7, he was afterall munster club player of the year there and easily would have done a great job at 7 for us, if needed.
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Post by homerj on Aug 2, 2022 10:18:58 GMT
10 people have picked their teams so far, 23 players had received votes. =========================================== 6 players make everybodies team -
Diarmuid Murphy Seamus Moynihan Tomás Ó Sé Dara Ó Sé Gooch David Clifford ===========================================
4 players make 9 teams -
Marc Ó Sé Tom O'Sullivan (Rathmore) Declan O'Sullivan Maurice Fitzgerald ===========================================
3 make 8 teams -
Aiden O'Mahony Seán Ó Sé Paul Galvin ===========================================
so based on that, 13 positions pretty much picked so far.
David Moran next on 7 with Mike Mccarthy and Donaghy on 5 each (surprised both so low)
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Post by homerj on Aug 2, 2022 15:25:21 GMT
its fairly easy to pick it in all fairness based off the above, 14 players would be in their fight position IMO.
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Post by homerj on Aug 2, 2022 15:25:40 GMT
by the way, what would be Kerrys best 5 scores in this time frame?
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Post by homerj on Aug 2, 2022 18:31:21 GMT
ya Maurice V Armagh 00, Donaghy and Darran V Armagh 06 worth a mention. JOD last minute goal v Mayo in 2014 drawn game.
but surely Seanie V the Dubs is #1?
all of the above were both magnificent and crucial at the same time, all meant all irelands came home and turned critical games in our favour
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Post by john4 on Aug 2, 2022 20:53:18 GMT
During these 25 years, Kerry played in the final on 16 occasions. 14 finals and 2 replays. Of the starting teams in these finals, which team would have been the best?
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Post by Mickmack on Aug 2, 2022 21:12:27 GMT
During these 25 years, Kerry played in the final on 16 occasions. 14 finals and 2 replays. Of the starting teams in these finals, which team would have been the best? I suppose those few years when Colm, Declan, Star, Galvin were all at their peak. 2004 to 2006. I thought we would never replace Declan but i think Seanie will be as good. I thought we would never see the likes of Colm and KD together again in the green and gold but shur David Clifford is like KD and Colm rolled into one.
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Jo90
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Post by Jo90 on Aug 2, 2022 22:26:24 GMT
10 people have picked their teams so far, 23 players had received votes. =========================================== 6 players make everybodies team - Diarmuid Murphy Seamus Moynihan Tomás Ó Sé Dara Ó Sé Gooch David Clifford =========================================== 4 players make 9 teams - Marc Ó Sé Tom O'Sullivan (Rathmore) Declan O'Sullivan Maurice Fitzgerald =========================================== 3 make 8 teams - Aiden O'Mahony Seán Ó Sé Paul Galvin =========================================== so based on that, 13 positions pretty much picked so far. David Moran next on 7 with Mike Mccarthy and Donaghy on 5 each (surprised both so low) So Maurice Fitz doesn't make everybody's team? I propose a 12 month suspension for anyone that doesn't have Maurice Fitz on their team! I go with: Murphy Marc Ó Sé, Moynihan, Tom O'Sullivan (Rathmore) Tomás Ó Sé, Flaherty, O'Mahony Darragh Ó Sé, Moran Galvin, D O'Sullivan, Fitzgerald Gooch, Donaghy, Clifford Driving around Kerry over the last few weeks, I was just thinking about a big difference in the decorations for the 1997 final and the 2022 one. For the 2022 one, the colours are mainly official Kerry flags with the Kerry logo. For the 1997 final, the majority of the colours were green and yellow fertilizer bags!
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Post by john4 on Aug 2, 2022 22:35:27 GMT
10 people have picked their teams so far, 23 players had received votes. =========================================== 6 players make everybodies team - Diarmuid Murphy Seamus Moynihan Tomás Ó Sé Dara Ó Sé Gooch David Clifford =========================================== 4 players make 9 teams - Marc Ó Sé Tom O'Sullivan (Rathmore) Declan O'Sullivan Maurice Fitzgerald =========================================== 3 make 8 teams - Aiden O'Mahony Seán Ó Sé Paul Galvin =========================================== so based on that, 13 positions pretty much picked so far. David Moran next on 7 with Mike Mccarthy and Donaghy on 5 each (surprised both so low) So Maurice Fitz doesn't make everybody's team? I propose a 12 month suspension for anyone that doesn't have Maurice Fitz on their team! I go with: Murphy Marc Ó Sé, Moynihan, Tom O'Sullivan (Rathmore) Tomás Ó Sé, Flaherty, O'Mahony Darragh Ó Sé, Moran Galvin, D O'Sullivan, Fitzgerald Gooch, Donaghy, Clifford Driving around Kerry over the last few weeks, I was just thinking about a big difference in the decorations for the 1997 final and the 2022 one. For the 2022 one, the colours are mainly official Kerry flags with the Kerry logo. For the 1997 final, the majority of the colours were green and yellow fertilizer bags! fertilizer bags in 2022 would be a display of wealth 🤣
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mossie
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Post by mossie on Aug 2, 2022 23:01:47 GMT
ya Maurice V Armagh 00, Donaghy and Darran V Armagh 06 worth a mention. JOD last minute goal v Mayo in 2014 drawn game. but surely Seanie V the Dubs is #1? all of the above were both magnificent and crucial at the same time, all meant all irelands came home and turned critical games in our favour Well Maurice s point in Thurles was mind blowing at the time but Seanie s point this year was the sweetest Maurice point v Dublin has to be in the top 5, perhaps the best of all. you could a selection a top 5 Maurice scores also!
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mossie
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Post by mossie on Aug 2, 2022 23:05:09 GMT
whod be our greatest ever player as it stands? Jacko? Maurice? Spillane? In my time watching matches 1. Jacko 2. Maurice with David Clifford rapidly catching and threatening to overtake that is how I see it, but look nearly impossible to call, different era's, styles of play, types of players etc
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horsebox77
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Post by horsebox77 on Aug 2, 2022 23:31:30 GMT
From who I have viewed in person.
My top ten, Jacko, Spillane, Moynihan, Fitzgerald, Clifford, Cooper. Mikey, Declan, Oige and Darragh.
Mainly because these players were never passengers and single handily at vital stages grabbed key games by the scruff of the neck and changed the course or projectory of a game in Kerry's favour.
Clifford, I actually rate him that highly, which is frightening considering his age.
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Post by homerj on Aug 3, 2022 8:10:52 GMT
Well Maurice s point in Thurles was mind blowing at the time but Seanie s point this year was the sweetest Maurice point v Dublin has to be in the top 5, perhaps the best of all. you could a selection a top 5 Maurice scores also! true! he got 3 incredible scores alone in 97 final.
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Post by Mickmack on Aug 3, 2022 8:31:57 GMT
The free kicked by Maurice in the 1996 Munster final to put Kerry a point up was a monster. It removed the indian sign Cork had over us.
I hope Seanie's free in 2022 v Dublin will be seen likewise in due course.
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Post by ryle1973 on Aug 3, 2022 9:14:10 GMT
So Maurice Fitz doesn't make everybody's team? I propose a 12 month suspension for anyone that doesn't have Maurice Fitz on their team! I go with: Murphy Marc Ó Sé, Moynihan, Tom O'Sullivan (Rathmore) Tomás Ó Sé, Flaherty, O'Mahony Darragh Ó Sé, Moran Galvin, D O'Sullivan, Fitzgerald Gooch, Donaghy, Clifford Driving around Kerry over the last few weeks, I was just thinking about a big difference in the decorations for the 1997 final and the 2022 one. For the 2022 one, the colours are mainly official Kerry flags with the Kerry logo. For the 1997 final, the majority of the colours were green and yellow fertilizer bags! fertilizer bags in 2022 would be a display of wealth 🤣 How isn't seanie making this team? 100% should be there lads!
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Post by thehermit on Aug 3, 2022 9:18:30 GMT
During these 25 years, Kerry played in the final on 16 occasions. 14 finals and 2 replays. Of the starting teams in these finals, which team would have been the best? I suppose those few years when Colm, Declan, Star, Galvin were all at their peak. 2004 to 2006. I thought we would never replace Declan but i think Seanie will be as good. I thought we would never see the likes of Colm and KD together again in the green and gold but shur David Clifford is like KD and Colm rolled into one. The Kerry way...!
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Post by john4 on Aug 3, 2022 9:28:03 GMT
The 2006 team for me was peak Kerry during these years. The next 5 players 17 - 21 would have made any county team at the time. Subs who came on in the final where they beat Mayo by 13 points were Eoin Brosnan, Bryan Sheehan, Darren O'Sullivan, Eamonn Fitzmaurice and Brendan Guiney. Up the middle you had. D Murphy. M McCarthy, S Moynihan. Dara Ó Sé, Tommy Griffin. Declan and Star. Great team.
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Post by Annascaultilidie on Aug 3, 2022 10:14:12 GMT
fertilizer bags in 2022 would be a display of wealth 🤣 How isn't seanie making this team? 100% should be there lads! Are you dropping Declan O'Sullivan for him?!
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Post by skelligs5 on Aug 3, 2022 11:37:32 GMT
My team would be: 1.Diarmaid Murphy 2.Marc O Se 3.Mike Mccarthy 4.Tom O Sullivan 5.Tomas O Se 6.Seamus Moynihan 7.Liam Flaherty 8.Dara O Se 9.David Moran 10.Declan O Sullivan 11.Sean O Shea 12.Maurice Fitzgerald 13.Colm Cooper 14.David Clifford 15.Mike Frank Russell And a very strong subs bench it must be said when one lists out who didnt start
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Post by Ballyfireside on Aug 3, 2022 13:51:22 GMT
I suppose those few years when Colm, Declan, Star, Galvin were all at their peak. 2004 to 2006. I thought we would never replace Declan but i think Seanie will be as good. I thought we would never see the likes of Colm and KD together again in the green and gold but shur David Clifford is like KD and Colm rolled into one. The Kerry way...! 'The Kerry Ingredient' you mean, Thingredient as we call it down Ballyfireway!
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Post by Ballyfireside on Aug 3, 2022 14:02:52 GMT
From who I have viewed in person. My top ten, Jacko, Spillane, Moynihan, Fitzgerald, Clifford, Cooper. Mikey, Declan, Oige and Darragh. Mainly because these players were never passengers and single handily at vital stages grabbed key games by the scruff of the neck and changed the course or projectory of a game in Kerry's favour. Clifford, I actually rate him that highly, which is frightening considering his age. The old chestnut again of giving credit to scorers rather than defenders - of course we all do it but maybe Ballydonoghoor Foley now has me thinking over this more carefully - Paidí isn't in lists nor Johnno - what would Comer have scored if he cut loose? Paidí's markers held to the sum total of 5 points in Croker - awesome. Also reminds of Haughey asking about how many bones he broke - 'none of my own Charlie, legendary stuff. Maybe picking a team nullifies such bias as backs compete with backs, etc.
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