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Post by royalkerryfan on May 16, 2022 18:41:47 GMT
Mick Fitzsimons started the 2011 all ireland final if I'm not mistaken. Leinster is just awful so who knows what will happen but I certainly hope we get a crack at Dublin. Yes Royal Mick Fitzsimmons played corner back in 2011 and James Mccarthy right half back. They are the only survivors but James Mccarthy is still one of the best players in the country. Dublin s midfield still so strong and forwards like Ó Callaghan Kilkenny Costello Rock Howard Bugler. I would nt be too confident against them with a full hill 16 roaring on. If we want to win the all ireland we have to face them. I don't fear them at all, Respect them but i think Kerry will beat them if we meet them. They were far better in 2019 and we should have won that game. Let's get there first but I would relish a shot at them.
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Post by dc84 on May 16, 2022 19:01:44 GMT
Yes Royal Mick Fitzsimmons played corner back in 2011 and James Mccarthy right half back. They are the only survivors but James Mccarthy is still one of the best players in the country. Dublin s midfield still so strong and forwards like Ó Callaghan Kilkenny Costello Rock Howard Bugler. I would nt be too confident against them with a full hill 16 roaring on. If we want to win the all ireland we have to face them. I don't fear them at all, Respect them but i think Kerry will beat them if we meet them. They were far better in 2019 and we should have won that game. Let's get there first but I would relish a shot at them. Well said royal ! It's one of the great gaa occasions kerry vs dublin in a packed croke park, semi final as well if it transpires so tickets not as hard. We both have to get there first but any kerry person.who wouldn't relish a crack at dublin id wonder about !
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Post by Mickmack on May 16, 2022 22:13:27 GMT
I hope Tyrone come through to the final by avoiding Kerry and Dublin.
A QF v Mayo, a semi final v Dublin and a final v Tyrone would be intoxicating stuff.
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horsebox77
Fanatical Member
Our trees & mountains are silent ghosts, they hold wisdom and knowledge mankind has long forgotten.
Posts: 2,037
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Post by horsebox77 on May 18, 2022 7:54:15 GMT
Jez, reading today's Times, Darragh fairly lays into Monaghan's Rory Beggan, the funny thing is I actually agree with Darragh but man does he shoot this one between the two eyes.
Wouldn't make nice reading from an Monaghan point of view - I hope we don't cross paths with Banty's men down the line,,,
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Post by thehermit on May 18, 2022 10:07:45 GMT
I hope Tyrone come through to the final by avoiding Kerry and Dublin. A QF v Mayo, a semi final v Dublin and a final v Tyrone would be intoxicating stuff. That would be the dream scenario alright, prevail over Mayo, absolutely stuff Dublin with a performance like 2009 driven by a decade of hurt and resentment and then tear into Tyrone and beat them out the gap too.
A man can dream, a man can dream ...
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Post by thehermit on May 18, 2022 10:10:44 GMT
Jez, reading today's Times, Darragh fairly lays into Monaghan's Rory Beggan, the funny thing is I actually agree with Darragh but man does he shoot this one between the two eyes. Wouldn't make nice reading from an Monaghan point of view - I hope we don't cross paths with Banty's men down the line,,, A bit like Waterford in the hurling, I was surprised by how passive Monaghan were. No great energy or passion to be seen.
Then again how much of that was down to Derry's performance.
The Ulster final will be fascinating, Derry look like the real deal and Donegal are very beatable. It could be a famous day for the oak leaf county!
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Post by dc84 on May 18, 2022 10:11:47 GMT
I hope Tyrone come through to the final by avoiding Kerry and Dublin. A QF v Mayo, a semi final v Dublin and a final v Tyrone would be intoxicating stuff. That would be the dream scenario alright, prevail over Mayo, absolutely stuff Dublin with a performance like 2009 driven by a decade of hurt and resentment and then tear into Tyrone and beat them out the gap too.
A man can dream, a man can dream ... If Carlsberg ( or lee strand in this instance) did summer's then this would be it! I'd take roscommon in quarters kildare in semi and Derry in final just as happily once we win the ffing thing!
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Post by Annascaultilidie on May 18, 2022 10:16:29 GMT
I hope Tyrone come through to the final by avoiding Kerry and Dublin. A QF v Mayo, a semi final v Dublin and a final v Tyrone would be intoxicating stuff. That would be the dream scenario alright, prevail over Mayo, absolutely stuff Dublin with a performance like 2009 driven by a decade of hurt and resentment and then tear into Tyrone and beat them out the gap too. A man can dream, a man can dream ... At the same time if you offered me a route of Limerick, Louth, Kildare, and Derry for another "soft" All Ireland I would bite your hand off.
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Post by Ballyfireside on May 18, 2022 10:20:13 GMT
Jez, reading today's Times, Darragh fairly lays into Monaghan's Rory Beggan, the funny thing is I actually agree with Darragh but man does he shoot this one between the two eyes. Wouldn't make nice reading from an Monaghan point of view - I hope we don't cross paths with Banty's men down the line,,, I thought it was a breath of fresh air by comparison with his often arm chair stuff for couch supporter IT readers, and what he says makes sense. He is spot on re Patton and I may have even seen more of him myself - he has a lovely touch with the placed spot and is well over his transition from soccer. Hopefully JackO'C will prove Darradh wrong re our keeper and IMO if we meet Monaghan, then Beggan mightn't be such a hero - in fairness I feel the crowd egg him on and Banty must surely be concerned. I suppose the 'sweeper keeper' role evolved from Cluxton redefining the role of No 1, and as in any experiment there will be more things that don't work than do.
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Post by thehermit on May 18, 2022 10:24:56 GMT
That would be the dream scenario alright, prevail over Mayo, absolutely stuff Dublin with a performance like 2009 driven by a decade of hurt and resentment and then tear into Tyrone and beat them out the gap too. A man can dream, a man can dream ... At the same time if you offered me a route of Limerick, Louth, Kildare, and Derry for another "soft" All Ireland I would bite your hand off. I never did not enjoy a "soft" All Ireland, 2007 was particularly sweet bar hopping down the quays in Dublin and waving to the buses of dejected Cork supporters as they drove by
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Post by Annascaultilidie on May 18, 2022 10:29:29 GMT
At the same time if you offered me a route of Limerick, Louth, Kildare, and Derry for another "soft" All Ireland I would bite your hand off. I never did not enjoy a "soft" All Ireland, 2007 was particularly sweet bar hopping down the quays in Dublin and waving to the buses of dejected Cork supporters as they drove by There are no soft All Ireland's in my opinion (and why I use the quotation marks). That route there is potentially teams that bate Tyrone, Dublin, Donegal and Mayo. I think it is similar to those who put ALL Dublin's success down to financials. It is a way of denigrating fine achievements. Of course given the choice I would take your scenario but I am beginning to grey now.
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Post by Ballyfireside on May 18, 2022 10:34:57 GMT
Jez, reading today's Times, Darragh fairly lays into Monaghan's Rory Beggan, the funny thing is I actually agree with Darragh but man does he shoot this one between the two eyes. Wouldn't make nice reading from an Monaghan point of view - I hope we don't cross paths with Banty's men down the line,,, A bit like Waterford in the hurling, I was surprised by how passive Monaghan were. No great energy or passion to be seen.
Then again how much of that was down to Derry's performance. The Ulster final will be fascinating, Derry look like the real deal and Donegal are very beatable. It could be a famous day for the oak leaf county!
You have fairly sized it up there and while anyone is beatable on the day, Tír Chonaill are a bit better than they get credit for and which probably suits them. Still Derry will come on again for the Monaghan game and you'd sense it is one of them Ulster Finals that the team who want it most, the team that most believes they can do it, will do it - unfortunately, or sorry, very fortunately, both teams tick both such boxes and there will be fireworks in Clones on Sunday week.
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Post by thehermit on May 18, 2022 10:38:09 GMT
Mayo and Cork, especially, were consistent top 3-4 teams in the 2000s. I don't hear Dublin's 2018 success being declared soft even though that Tyrone side were nothing special at all.
No such thing is right, but sure isn't it a nice stick for the 'we hate Kerry brigade' to throw out, just like the hurling province smear etc.
Take a look at the League tables there Leinster boys and tell me how Munster counties are doing in the football vis a vie your lot ;D
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Post by royalkerryfan on May 18, 2022 11:36:30 GMT
Soft all irelands must be the most insulting thing that you can level at a county.
Teams are there on merit,
It may not be a vintage year but that's irrelevant.
IF we win one by beating Dublin it will be extra special given they have had their foot on us for 12 years.
Its also a good thing that everyone is talking them up again as there can be no ambush. Dublin are back suits just fine with me.
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Post by royalkerryfan on May 18, 2022 13:25:23 GMT
We won a very soft all ireland in 97.We beat Tipp Clare Cavan and Mayo. We never even played Cork. However it was brilliant cos of our 11 year famine. While it would be great to beat the big teams on route i would be happy just as long as we're are champions. Going back to Dublin. While this year is like 2013 in ways it also reminds me of 1984 when Dubs were the new team on the block and most reporters saying Kerry are finished but it was Kerry that won Sam. This year many saying Kerry are the new team in the block and Dubs finished. I'm not too sure. Also a manager that shows fear against Dublin has no hope and I'm afraid Jack Ó Connor showed pure fear v Dublin last year albeit with Kildare. Many in Kildare were fuming over it last year. Having said that while we should beat Limerick the quarters might prove a problem too. Mayo were far from soft in 1997. They beat us in 96 and arguably should have won that all ireland against Meath.
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Post by veteran on May 18, 2022 18:39:49 GMT
There are a lot of people out there who feel Kerry have won a lot of soft titles. It is surprising that there are not a greater spread of winners if there are some soft All-Ireland’s to be won.
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Post by royalkerryfan on May 18, 2022 18:53:40 GMT
There are a lot of people out there who feel Kerry have won a lot of soft titles. It is surprising that there are not a greater spread of winners if there are some soft All-Ireland’s to be won. Spot on Vet, Its massively insulting to any team regardless of county to be told it was soft. It's something you hear from Dublin fans a lot yet if you looked at theirs you'd wonder, 2020 bring a good example. But I think there's no such thing as a soft all ireland.
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Post by Annascaultilidie on May 18, 2022 18:59:34 GMT
Mayo were far from soft in 1997. They beat us in 96 and arguably should have won that all ireland against Meath. Mayo should have beaten us too but I still consider it a soft all ireland. Many people have said same. Anyway you have a different view and that's fine. Many people from Kerry?
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Post by royalkerryfan on May 18, 2022 19:22:08 GMT
Mayo were far from soft in 1997. They beat us in 96 and arguably should have won that all ireland against Meath. Mayo should have beaten us too but I still consider it a soft all ireland. Many people have said same. Anyway you have a different view and that's fine. I doubt you'd call any of Dublins all irelands soft.
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Post by Mickmack on May 18, 2022 20:07:31 GMT
I cant think of anything softer than Dublins 2020 win.
Kerry screwed up v Cork Cork screwed up v Tipp Mayo found themselves winning Connacht without a challenge and then beat a porous Tipp in the semi final. Mayo were in decline from their peak in 2017 yet they reached the final because everyone else on their side of the draw created hari kari.
Then we have Cavan taking out Tyrone in the Ulster final in another freak result.
So after dispensing with the no hopers in Leinster, Dublin are left with beating Cavan and a Mayo team who overachieved in reaching the final simply because no one else on their side of the draw were anything other that awful.
Dublin won the final without breaking sweat.
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Post by Annascaultilidie on May 19, 2022 5:58:27 GMT
indeed many friends if mine from home thought we won a soft all ireland in 97. Why are people so defensive when it's said. Who cares. I'd prefer to win a soft all ireland than lose a hard one. In 08 we beat Galway in a classic. Had a tough game with Monaghan. Beat Cork in a replay but lost to Tyrone. I would be defensive because I perceive it as an attack.
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Post by Annascaultilidie on May 19, 2022 8:18:32 GMT
I would be defensive because I perceive it as an attack. A bit ott me thinks. Just because you don't agree with someone s opinion does nt mean it's an attack. Offaly were lucky to beat Kerry in 82. Dublin were lucky to beat Kerry in 11 and Mayo in 16 and 17.is that an attack on Dublin. On allianz league Sunday they said David Clifford got a very lucky goal v Donegal. Was that an attack? Actually David himself said he was going for a point. He attacked himself. Just because people have different opinions does nt mean it's an attack. I believe it is an opinion generally held in bad faith. I think it is quite OK to be defensive about such displays of lack of respect for the achievements of our footballers.
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Post by Mickmack on May 19, 2022 8:27:30 GMT
It seems pretty obvious to me that different years throws up different scenarios.
For a few years there KK met nothing in Leinster.
The counties in Munster were killing each other such was the competition.
One year Limerick came through the qualifiers and caught Waterford on the hop in a semi final.
Limerick hadnt won a senior hurling match in Munster in 4 or 5 years....yet they were in a final and were duly ate by KK.
Compare that to the year KK beat Tipp to win 4 in a row. A late debateable penalty turned a momumental game in KK way.
Dont try to tell me that the year they beat Limerick wasnt a soft one.
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Post by onlykerry on May 19, 2022 8:58:06 GMT
What is one's definition of a "soft" all Ireland?
Every AI won means the winning team beat all before it and just because some of the so called big names underperformed and did not cross swords that particular year is on them and not the eventual winner.
Some years the ball bounces for a team and other years the Gods seem to be exacting revenge and everything goes against a team - that is why for me (and I stress for me) great teams win back to back all Irelands and more. Every single All Ireland could in essence be called a soft All Ireland but to get two "soft" all Irelands in succession that requires skill.....
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Post by Annascaultilidie on May 19, 2022 9:11:30 GMT
The best way to win a "soft" All Ireland is to be by a distance the best team in the country and perform out of your skin on the big days.
Another way to win a "soft" All Ireland is for your main challengers to disappear after winning an All-Ireland or to sh1t the bed on the big day.
If an All-Ireland is so "soft", why didn't one of the other big sides win it?
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Post by Mickmack on May 19, 2022 9:42:06 GMT
Thats it exactly. Events dear boy. Some are soft.
Foin Avon wouldnt win another grand national in a million years.
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Post by royalkerryfan on May 19, 2022 9:47:00 GMT
Would anyone here tell a member of the 1997 team they won a soft all ireland ?
Ofcourse not because it is a insulting term used to belittle that achievement.
Obviously some years are not vintage years and appear easier than other years.
It's the term soft that is insulting and is often heard from those that didn't win it that particular year.
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Post by Mickmack on May 19, 2022 9:54:49 GMT
The 1997 one was hard won. Ending a famine is not easy especially a first final for most of the players....against a side that beat them in 1996 and took Meath to a replay in the final.
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Post by royalkerryfan on May 19, 2022 10:04:38 GMT
The 1997 one was hard won. Ending a famine is not easy especially a first final for most of the players....against a side that beat them in 1996 and took Meath to a replay in the final. Absolutely agree Mick, I was referring to CiarraiMick who said 1997 was soft.
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Post by Annascaultilidie on May 19, 2022 11:11:33 GMT
The people who dismiss All-Irelands as soft are the same type of people who say that Colm Cooper went missing vs Tyrone (despite being the top scorer on the field in all those massive three matches).
Maybe it is fair to try and use the word "soft" to describe an All-Ireland that was different to others... but in general I don't think that is what people are trying to say. I think they are trying to say that those All-Irelands don't count as much when they all count. I think they are trying to dismiss and denigrate... the same way they try to do to the Gooch...
Now some people are just ignorant... but when you put to them the facts about Gooch's performance in those games they do not change their mind. That screams to me bad faith.
I have tried to use words like 'often', 'generally', etc. to convey I don't think EVERY use of the word "soft" is in bad faith. But in general it is a bit of a red rag.
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