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Post by kerrybhoy06 on Dec 12, 2021 21:27:34 GMT
It's surely not as simple as putting a big man at number 6 to 'hit anything that moves', think the game has moved on quite a bit from that theory. In any case, surely there would be better candidates for that task then converting an extremely athletic, powerful running midfielder. It's about having a cohesive, well thought out and well coached game plan that the players know inside out through positive and engaging training sessions. That's what Kerry have lacked in the last two years and that's why Tally is in. It's also why a very well coached Tyrone team beat Kerry this year. I'm 100% in agreement that a cohesive, well thought out and well coached game plan is the ultimate tonic and I think we've been really poorly served by the level of detailed tactical preparation we've had compared to for instance Tyrone this year and Dublin under JG. I still think regardless that having a physically imposing and highly athletic player whose number 1 job was to prevent runners through the central channel would have been enough to win us the All Ireland this year (probably 2019 as well) despite our less refined gameplan. I think a player with those attributes would be a bigger asset on the 40 going forward than a smaller, lighter attack minded player of the sort we've often had. I also think it's clear that in games against the best drilled teams they have targeted the fact that we pick guys prone to go walk about for that position and we're left wondering what our CHB is doing up corner forward while strike runners scythe through the heart of our defence off a turnover. I have no doubt there are ways of shoring up the central channel with less imposing players, but having one would be no harm. There may be a fortune of lads out there playing CHB for their clubs in Kerry who could make the step up but I don't think it is unheard of for a club centre fielder to play half back or half forward for the county. A friend of mine joked to me before that when playing against us all you had to do is put your head down and run in a straight line and you’d find yourself one on one with the keeper. It happens again and again
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Post by listowelemerrs on Dec 12, 2021 23:16:24 GMT
I think Savage can be a useful option against packed defences. He has great composure on the ball and a very good kicker. Cormac needs another chance at 2 or 4. No one mentioning Gavin o brien who imo should be given every chance possible. Was one of rahillys top performers until injury in final. Agree with previous comment in that Joe o Connor would be better Center back. Has a great side step and wouldn’t have the skills to field ball out in the middle so that would be interesting. One surprise player that not many might know of or suggest he is at the level but that is Dilan o donoghue a dromid pearses man so Jack o Connor would know about him. I’ve seen him play a lot down through the years and he’s lightening quick and very good scorer but never seems to mentioned along the other players for some reason. I believe he was training with Kerry minors and u21s down the years. I would think he’s about 25 or 26 now. Could be a surprise inclusion.
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Post by Ballyfireside on Dec 13, 2021 1:16:13 GMT
I think DC said it all, literally in an nutshell, when interviewed for The All Stars on Friday night - he said talking outside the team zone is ok, so long as one realises that it isn't based on what is happening inside.
This may sound simplistic and probably suggests this forum, or indeed any media, is futile - that is apart from what comes from inside and which is negligible as the unit play their cards close to their chest and anything said is on a need-to-know' basis. Jim Gavin was master and it looks like teams have adopted Bertie Ahern's tact in answering Taoiseach's questions, i.e. spend 95% of the allocated time saying what you want people to know and then the remaining 5% on the question that was asked. Behind-closed-door training is further down this road and so a lot of the joy is disappearing.
Nevertheless some of the above analysis is interesting but it is a long way from being inside JOC's head.
There are most interesting times ahead and seldom has Sam's next home being so uncertain.
The one issue sticking out for me is how unfancied Tyrone are, if the bookies are anything to go by. Éamonn Fitzmaurice says there is more to come from them and given the quantum leap they have made since we trashed them in Killarney last year, then where will they be as 2022 progresses, also bearing in mind that doing the back-to-back is the elephant in the room here. Take it from me, that is their target.
In a strange kind of way I think we are back to 2002 in that Kerry still have the most purist talent but Tyrone just have what it takes. It is a simple game and there is no good having class if the opponent has the ball and the team better manages the progression of play. Like the Red Hands impose what suits them on others then we need to do the same - the most powerful team will prevail and that is what it boils down to, raw power.
Tyrone folk are cute too and anyone whoever believed in the 'cure Kerry hoor' crack was either a pretending opponent plámásing us or one of us who fell for it. I'd have great chats with them up here and believe you me, there are no fleas on 'em. IMO they are on average more street wise than us - maybe challengers generally are? They have an amazing GAA culture and the women are 100% up there with the most passionate of the male of the species. Deep down they have phenomenal respect for us and down to a man, or woman, I think they set this as the challenge and I'd guess that beating us may have even been seen as a greater achievement than if they took down the reigning 5-in-a-row Dubs.
Ah just off the top of my head stuff, just giving the view, North West Words!
Hopefully we will all be healthy anyway and wherever Sam finds a bed is the least of many people's worries right now. Listening to Charlie Bird on Friday night's Late Late Show certainly puts things into perspective. And is it me or does Vicky Phelan make everyone feel so small - talk of courage?
Hey, stay safe everyone and keep the spirit up, 'tis all we have ag deireadh an lae!
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Post by heyjude on Dec 13, 2021 1:20:50 GMT
They've been mentioned above but I'm going to give three lesser players who could have a big impact under Jack, as a sort of prediction for the years ahead if you like.
1. Dan O'Donoghue 2. Daniel O'Brien 3. Michael O'Gara
I think these guys are Jack's type all day long and projects he can work on. May not necessarily turn out to be superstars but all three can make big contributions during Jack's term.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Dec 13, 2021 1:36:40 GMT
OK I get your point ré Killian s goal chance but David Clifford went for a crazy goal chance v Cork in 2020 when a simple point was on. David was going for goal for a 10%shot.At least Killian was 50%chance.My point is David gets a free pass. Clifford missed eay chances in 2020 v Cork that cost us game. Also he was cause of goal v Tyrone. Because he is so good he gets away with it while others take the flak. David Moran gets crucified for example. Mick I was half pissed for that game but didn't Clifford's shot against Cork clip the post?
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Post by kerrybhoy06 on Dec 13, 2021 9:54:55 GMT
It sure did Kboy and if he scored it, I would have been an outstanding goal. However my point was it was a low percentage goal chance and a simple point was on. Killian Spillane chance was a high percentage goal chanceand it took a fab block to deny him the goal. However afterwards many saying he should have taken the point. My point is when Clifford errs a blind eye is used but when Killian errs he is lambasted. Who lambasted Killian? I’ve never seen someone lambast him over it. Clifford was criticised on here for his misses that day, go back and read the match thread.
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Post by kerrybhoy06 on Dec 13, 2021 10:31:45 GMT
Maybe lambasted is too strong but many criticised him for going for goal like Colm Ó Rourke and even his uncle Pat.Many more saying he should have taken the point. He was unlucky and it was brilliant defending to deny him a goal Spillane and O Rourke? FFS mate you’re worse for listening to those mouth pieces. They are just there to increase their profile and not analyse the game. He had to go for goal, 10 yards out you have to. We need killers, not exhibitionists who will take a handy point
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Dec 13, 2021 12:26:30 GMT
It sure did Kboy and if he scored it, I would have been an outstanding goal. However my point was it was a low percentage goal chance and a simple point was on. Killian Spillane chance was a high percentage goal chanceand it took a fab block to deny him the goal. However afterwards many saying he should have taken the point. My point is when Clifford errs a blind eye is used but when Killian errs he is lambasted. I know what your saying Mick, but I think Clifford has earned the right to shoot at will (if those are the right words) he's scored some blinders and he only 22,he has had a few poor games but again he's only 22 and I'm sure his decision making will improve in time. As for killian he was right to go for goal but my biggest gripe is that he only has 1 good half in him, and if he gets a bang he disappears completely, I suppose what I'm trying to say is he's a bit soft for intercounty ( il probably be shot for saying that)
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Post by Mickmack on Dec 13, 2021 13:13:39 GMT
It sure did Kboy and if he scored it, I would have been an outstanding goal. However my point was it was a low percentage goal chance and a simple point was on. Killian Spillane chance was a high percentage goal chanceand it took a fab block to deny him the goal. However afterwards many saying he should have taken the point. My point is when Clifford errs a blind eye is used but when Killian errs he is lambasted. Lots of posters, myself included have said that DC shoots on sight too much especially off the left. He takes a hop and steadies himself when shooting off the right. So its not accurate to say that he gets a free pass. If you take the time to read old threads from prior to your joining this forum you will see such posts.
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Post by Moderator on Dec 13, 2021 19:11:26 GMT
ciarraimick,
Stop trying to quote posts...you simply can't do it correctly.
Just fire up your reply naming the poster you are referring to and we will understand.
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Post by dc84 on Dec 13, 2021 21:05:05 GMT
I think Clifford gets a bit of a free pass alright but he was unbelievable in that game v Tyrone scored 8 points against a very good defender. I do worry about our forwards tbh look at the list of ours vs Tyrone for example Tyrone have a much better balance than we have. Also I said it here at the start of the year any team that has the calliber of forward like , mcshane, Donnelly,mccurry McKenna,canavan not to mention sludden etc. Who are so versatile has to be respected are our lads much better as some seem to think? Our forwards scored 0-8 from play theirs 3-4
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Post by royalkerryfan on Dec 13, 2021 21:25:09 GMT
Have the league fixtures been released yet? I know we are away to Kildare ( Happy Days ) on the 31st of Jan. Are the other fixtures known yet ?
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Post by eastwarrior on Dec 13, 2021 22:04:21 GMT
For me the following: Goalkeepers: Shane Ryan, Fitzgibbon, and I would like to see Mark Kelliher from Glenflesk given a chance. Highly impressive whenever i saw him play for Kerry underage. He was not part of the East Kerry squad but that wasnot as a result of them not wanting him. He simply passed on the offer. Maybe he does not have the interest but if he does he is the future i believe.
Backs: Gavin White, Tom Sullivan , Mike Breen, Brian Begley. Jason Foley, Paul Murphy, Gavin Crowley, Tadgh Morley, Jack Sherwood. Would obviously like to see Stefan Okunbor inside, a mountain of a man very good in the full back spot underage prior to his move. Now he is back and must e given a chance to fill the obvious gap in our defence. Dylan Casey his championship performances speak for themselves, Pa Warren has been exceptional for his club in there climb up the divisions and in championship. He was the only impressive player for East Kerry versus Stacks blistering pace a gavin white type player must be looked at. Jack o Se Stacks was my stand out player of the championship a touch tight defender who can also put you on the back foot contributing the odd score.
Midfield: Diarmuid O’Connor, Joe O’Connor, Paul O’Shea, Jack Barry, Adrain Spillane, David Moran, think it is also time to give Barry Mahoney a chance an exceptional fielder of the ball and really athletic like any modern midfielder must be. Mark Ryan when he plays is always impressive unfortunately his play time is limited due to injuries. If i had a Christmas wish it would be to see Mark O Connor playing midfield for Kerry.
Forwards, Paudie Clifford, Sean O’Shea, Dara Moynihan, David Clifford. Killian Spillane, Tony Brosnan, David Shaw, , Liam Carey, Paul Geaney, Stephen O brien, Michael Burns, Ronan Buckley, Evan Cronnin. some of the above in mid-field like Diarmuid, Barry and Spillane or Paul O’Shea can all play here too . I struggle to think of players to look at here really no forward is standing out which is quite worrying. I guess Dara Roche deserves an oppurtunity but i do not see him making an impact hes far too glory for a kerry team and has failed to impress consistently against good teams. But, due to a lack of talent will probably get a call in. I think Jack Savage is probably due a recall to the squad he always impressed me when he played for kerry along with his clubman gavin o brien could get the call. O'Callaghan from Stacks had a fair championship but again like roche i dont think he is up to the standard.
Im sure i have missed players I am just thinking off the top of my head. It will be interesting to see how Stacks, Na Gaeil and Gneeveguilla progress through Munster to see if anyone else stands out.
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Post by thehermit on Dec 13, 2021 23:00:00 GMT
Have the league fixtures been released yet? I know we are away to Kildare ( Happy Days ) on the 31st of Jan. Are the other fixtures known yet ? The provisional schedule was put up in the Winters of Discontent thread if you search through it.
Dubs coming to ASP at 7pm on Sat 5 Feb anyway and Mayo are the other Saturday night game in Tralee in mid-March
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Post by royalkerryfan on Dec 13, 2021 23:04:44 GMT
Have the league fixtures been released yet? I know we are away to Kildare ( Happy Days ) on the 31st of Jan. Are the other fixtures known yet ? The provisional schedule was put up in the Winters of Discontent thread if you search through it.
Dubs coming to ASP at 7pm on Sat 5 Feb anyway and Mayo are the other Saturday night game in Tralee in mid-March Good man Hermit
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Post by jackiel on Dec 14, 2021 10:05:58 GMT
Here's a reply I got to the same question a couple of weeks back. I know for sure that the 2 evening fixtures in Tralee are correct.
Dec 2, 2021 at 3:53am via mobile jackiel and john4 like thisQuotelikePost OptionsPost by The16thMan on Dec 2, 2021 at 3:53am Rumoured fixtures so far: Jan 30 - Kildare (A) Feb 5 - Dublin (H) Feb 20 - Donegal (H) Feb 27- Monaghan (A) Mar 12 - Mayo (H) Mar 20 - Armagh (A) Mar 27 - Tyrone (H)
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Post by royalkerryfan on Dec 14, 2021 10:55:47 GMT
Here's a reply I got to the same question a couple of weeks back. I know for sure that the 2 evening fixtures in Tralee are correct. Dec 2, 2021 at 3:53am via mobile jackiel and john4 like thisQuotelikePost OptionsPost by The16thMan on Dec 2, 2021 at 3:53am Rumoured fixtures so far: Jan 30 - Kildare (A) Feb 5 - Dublin (H) Feb 20 - Donegal (H) Feb 27- Monaghan (A) Mar 12 - Mayo (H) Mar 20 - Armagh (A) Mar 27 - Tyrone (H) Delighted with these, 3 games are just 1 hour away and a night in Tralee for Dublin. Great stuff.
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horsebox77
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Post by horsebox77 on Dec 14, 2021 11:50:36 GMT
I posted a list of possible addition on page one, we have all posted various combinations and want to be county panellists. A lot are quoting Andrew Barry as a possible CHB for us, Whereas I think he is a fine players I would categorise him is the “above average club player”. A player that stands out at club or divisional level but just doesn’t have all the required attributes for the intercounty scene. He has the brain, positional sense and strength but lacking that bit of pace for me for the intercounty set up.
If I’m comparing a player, I would always put him against his current direct opponent on the county scene, so that for me had Andrew pitted against Paudie or Seanie.. I don’t think he has the legs unfortunately to nullify such an opponent.
I take it seeing as there is no team holiday, that the McGrath selection is made up of seniors and not a case of our U21’s entering as championship preparation.
To gauge players I would select along these lines to see how they would equip themselves: O’Brien, Cormac Coffey, Stefan Okunbor, Dylan Casey, Dan O’Brien, Mike Breen, Barry O’Mahony, Adam Donoghue, Joe O’Connor, Donal O’Sullivan, Paul O’Shea, Eddie Horan, Liam Carey, David Shaw and Tony Brosnan.
Brosnan hasn’t brought his club form to the green and gold yet and although I’m not doubting his class or ability, for me he hasn’t shown it yet so my jury is still out. I’m a big fan of Mike Breen and think he has to be considered for a look at number six. I’m not getting too hung up on the number six though as others as I think as a unit under Tally we should be more solidified and once everyone knows there place we should not be as porous. I think we will have at least four access this line so the tradition ”stopper” will be redundant.
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Post by Whosinmidfield on Dec 14, 2021 12:31:27 GMT
We are likely to be without the Stacks and Na Gaeil players for the McGrath cup so that would mean no Joe O’Connor, Dylan Casey, Stefan Okunbor or anyone else from those 2 clubs who might be involved.
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mike70
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Post by mike70 on Dec 14, 2021 12:46:34 GMT
I posted a list of possible addition on page one, we have all posted various combinations and want to be county panellists. A lot are quoting Andrew Barry as a possible CHB for us, Whereas I think he is a fine players I would categorise him is the “above average club player”. A player that stands out at club or divisional level but just doesn’t have all the required attributes for the intercounty scene. He has the brain, positional sense and strength but lacking that bit of pace for me for the intercounty set up. If I’m comparing a player, I would always put him against his current direct opponent on the county scene, so that for me had Andrew pitted against Paudie or Seanie.. I don’t think he has the legs unfortunately to nullify such an opponent. I take it seeing as there is no team holiday, that the McGrath selection is made up of seniors and not a case of our U21’s entering as championship preparation. To gauge players I would select along these lines to see how they would equip themselves: O’Brien, Cormac Coffey, Stefan Okunbor, Dylan Casey, Dan O’Brien, Mike Breen, Barry O’Mahony, Adam Donoghue, Joe O’Connor, Donal O’Sullivan, Paul O’Shea, Eddie Horan, Liam Carey, David Shaw and Tony Brosnan. Brosnan hasn’t brought his club form to the green and gold yet and although I’m not doubting his class or ability, for me he hasn’t shown it yet so my jury is still out. I’m a big fan of Mike Breen and think he has to be considered for a look at number six. I’m not getting too hung up on the number six though as others as I think as a unit under Tally we should be more solidified and once everyone knows there place we should not be as porous. I think we will have at least four access this line so the tradition ”stopper” will be redundant. As DC said on TV for the all star show, we all have opinions and rightly so, but what happens once they step over the white line, is dictated by training and management, but I at least would expect us to be aware of stacks and na Gaeil being involved in Munster duty, so might be more prudent to pick a team reflective of there involvement, but keep on picking 👍🏻
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Post by kerrybhoy06 on Dec 14, 2021 13:18:16 GMT
What performances are people picking David shaw on? Minor 4/5 years ago?
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Post by Deleted on Dec 14, 2021 14:30:42 GMT
In reply to Horsebox. That McGrath cup team you picked would be a great way of trialing players and that's a good line up. On Tony Brosnan while agree he has shown same bite at County level I don't think he has been given much of a chance either. On Andrew Barry I have to disagree. I think the one position that can get away with a lack of pace in CB if one is a good reader of the game and a stopper. Barry is both. We have had plenty of pace at CB the last decade and we have been cut through like a knife through butter. I think Barry is just what we need and two pacy wing backs can more than make up for his lack of pace. Also I think if he made panel he d lose a few pounds and pace would be better. For me he deserves a chance anyway. Paudie got his chance from the county championship and Andrew was the best CB in the championship bar none. I agree with you Mick, I'd give Andrew Barry a shot at centre back, it'll be found out fairly quickly if he's not up to it and they'll be no harm done if he's not. I remember seeing him against Monaghan in innishkeen about 4/5 years ago and he was torn asunder, so much so he was removed at half time, but I'd still give him a shot as he's older now and like you say he's the best of what we've seen in the championship.
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horsebox77
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Post by horsebox77 on Dec 14, 2021 14:47:39 GMT
Have you anyone else in mind for centre back K’boy? ………….
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Post by Whosinmidfield on Dec 14, 2021 14:54:09 GMT
What performances are people picking David shaw on? Minor 4/5 years ago? Shaw has been knocking around the panel for a good few years now and the only look in he has got was against Meath in the league, one of the last games before covid hit. He did fairly well that day in fairness but whenever I’ve seen him with the Crokes he hasn’t overly impressed. He was an excellent minor but hasn’t really kicked on. He doesn’t seem to have the confidence of other forwards who he has at least as much ability as. We’ve 4 established inside forwards so trying to get game time will be a big challenge for any inside forward. I don’t see him breaking in honestly unless Jack can really find a way to get the best out of him. Donal O’Sullivan is more likely to break in in my opinion.
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Post by kerrybhoy06 on Dec 14, 2021 15:24:25 GMT
What performances are people picking David shaw on? Minor 4/5 years ago? Shaw has been knocking around the panel for a good few years now and the only look in he has got was against Meath in the league, one of the last games before covid hit. He did fairly well that day in fairness but whenever I’ve seen him with the Crokes he hasn’t overly impressed. He was an excellent minor but hasn’t really kicked on. He doesn’t seem to have the confidence of other forwards who he has at least as much ability as. We’ve 4 established inside forwards so trying to get game time will be a big challenge for any inside forward. I don’t see him breaking in honestly unless Jack can really find a way to get the best out of him. Donal O’Sullivan is more likely to break in in my opinion. Maybe so on Donal o Sullivan but I would at least like to see a lad put in a good season for his divisional side before he’s considered, Donal couldn’t even make the starting team
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Post by kerrybhoy06 on Dec 14, 2021 15:27:05 GMT
Have you anyone else in mind for centre back K’boy? …………. It’s a real problem position for us with no obvious solution. I liked keanes suggestion of converting a midfielder but there’s flaws with that too
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mike70
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Post by mike70 on Dec 14, 2021 15:36:03 GMT
Have you anyone else in mind for centre back K’boy? …………. It’s a real problem position for us with no obvious solution. I liked keanes suggestion of converting a midfielder but there’s flaws with that too I believe we have the right personal on board, our biggest challenge is that we are turning over to much ball, opening us to the counter attack, I am sure the new management will find the best 6 to start, but we need to mind possession. ⚽️
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Post by Whosinmidfield on Dec 14, 2021 15:50:06 GMT
Thoughts on Dan O’Donoghue for 6?
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Post by Deleted on Dec 14, 2021 16:17:02 GMT
Have you anyone else in mind for centre back K’boy? …………. not really horse, I thought when Jay went to fullback Last year that Morley would go to 6 but that didn't happen. Could Jack bring back Peter Crowley?
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peanuts
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Post by peanuts on Dec 14, 2021 17:02:32 GMT
Maybe lambasted is too strong but many criticised him for going for goal like Colm Ó Rourke and even his uncle Pat.Many more saying he should have taken the point. He was unlucky and it was brilliant defending to deny him a goal Spillane and O Rourke? FFS mate you’re worse for listening to those mouth pieces. They are just there to increase their profile and not analyse the game. He had to go for goal, 10 yards out you have to. We need killers, not exhibitionists who will take a handy point I disagree, I thought a goal was never on there as the angle was too tight and even if he hadn't been blocked down Morgan would've saved it. Similarly with Clifford in the first half when he dragged a shot across the goal when a goal wasn't on. It was symptomatic of a lot of poor decision making on the day.
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