thepope
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Posts: 1,277
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Post by thepope on Feb 11, 2019 20:26:20 GMT
On closing a game out. If Dublin were a man and four points up with ten mins to go, how many times would kerry have touched the ball?
Presume management will especially focus on our game management with 10 mins to go. All part of learning process.
Good to be excited by the kerry team again.
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peanuts
Fanatical Member
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Post by peanuts on Feb 11, 2019 20:51:40 GMT
That’s an interesting article by Aidan O’Rourke and it’s hard to argue with his take on Kerry we don’t have proven lockdown man markers in our last line at the moment. We look to have improved but we don’t have someone that you would fully trust to go one v one with a Mannion, McBrearty or McManus. Lots of lads with potential who may get there eventually though. I would query whether Fitzsimons and Cooper are really that far ahead, if we do end up seeing them later on and we can get good ball in to Clifford and co I don’t see them shutting us down. They have benefited enormously from Cian O’Sullivans cover over the years as most teams pull men back and give Dublin a sweeper. Ultimately they may well still be too strong for us as a whole but I don’t see them as having a huge advantage at full back. The thing he doesn’t address which also has a huge impact is the overlap of defenders and midfielders which create an extra attacker. Dublin are very good at their defenders especially, taking turns in attacking up the field. Our half forwards have to be able to follow them. Moynihan did that very well on Saturday night but Gavin O’Brien let McCarthy free a few times and he scored 3 points. On the other hand I think our backs attacked quite well on Saturday night.
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Post by dc84 on Feb 11, 2019 21:10:00 GMT
In fairness, there's no defender anywhere that could completely nullify players like that; it can't be done. They're going to hurt you and all you can do is minimize the damage. Good forwards will score; if they didn't, we'd have a poor spectacle. Mannion is a beast. It appeared to me that cian O’Sullivan and Phil were coming to the end last year. If that is the case, I would anticipate that Mccarthy will become the sweeper. No problem there just a big loss going forward. Totally agree, the key to playing dublin is excatly what we did the last day keep every defender busy. O sullivan has been making some of those defenders look better than they are for a few years. I think fitzsimons isnt the most physically imposing player and cooper is not amazing in the air hard to see who would mark Clifford if not mcmahon? Also if o sullivan is at 6 sean o shea would wear him to dust. They still have the best middle 8 though especially when kilkenny comes back
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Post by damarys on Feb 11, 2019 21:33:52 GMT
Well done kerry over the weekend.Seems our young players played very well.Just wondering if anyone has a link to the game??Thank you in advance
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Post by givehimaball on Feb 11, 2019 21:40:43 GMT
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Post by Tadhgeen on Feb 11, 2019 22:09:45 GMT
I think when a team is up by a few points and the Dubs know it's 'now or never' as such they just push way up. They put as much pressure as they can manage on kickouts and individuals tackle with all their energy for as long as they can to try and force the opposition into mistakes. I suppose at that point the opposition are tired and it can be difficult to break out once Dublin turn the screw like that. You could actually see it for our last point - it was clear that there was acres of open territory down the right hand side but they put us under so much pressure it took us maybe five or six passes to get into a position to give a simple pass out that wing. We need to think about ways to break that strangle hold when Dublin decide to apply it. You can easily see it when they decide to do it. It might be time for a load of cramps to set in, or for handbags to be started or even just for a couple of extremely well drilled 'escape route' kickout routines to be brought out. Even just to be aware that they do it, so you recognise it and can just mentally steel yourself that you need to burst your bollocks to the same extent as they are prepared to for the next five minutes until they get the message that you're not going to crack. It will be harder for them to sustain it when they recognise that the main effect of their increased effort is to create a coordinated increase in effort from the opposition. Spot on
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Post by Tadhgeen on Feb 11, 2019 22:14:08 GMT
Dublins comeback also coincided with the cavalry coming in jack mccaffery, flynn, macauley, mcmenamin and andrews. With the notable exception of mccaffery all men in their 30s with ten years of ic experience and conditioning each. Our younger players have about what ten weeks senior training ? stamina will take a while to build up. We are a good bit ahead of where id thought ( or even hoped) we would be at this stage McMenamin certainly looked conditioned . Out of condition that is...
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Post by Mickmack on Feb 11, 2019 22:17:41 GMT
Well done kerry over the weekend.Seems our young players played very well.Just wondering if anyone has a link to the game??Thank you in advance I hope to be able to post it up tomorrow morning or maybe even later on tonight. It is "processing" at the moment.
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Post by southward on Feb 11, 2019 22:26:49 GMT
Trying to watch it on RTE player at the moment. It'll likely take the 5 days. I should have known. RTE player is an incredibly frustrating experience. Having eventually cut to the actual match after enduring interminable ads, the quality is appalling. Constant stop/start with piss-poor picture definition. And it's not my internet, which is actually ok, works fine on youtube etc.
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Post by southward on Feb 11, 2019 22:40:08 GMT
Trying to watch it on RTE player at the moment. It'll likely take the 5 days. I should have known. RTE player is an incredibly frustrating experience. Having eventually cut to the actual match after enduring interminable ads, the quality is appalling. Constant stop/start with piss-poor picture definition. And it's not my internet, which is actually ok, works fine on youtube etc. Right, just given up on it. I'll wait for Mickmack's edition. RTE player is a load of bollocks, as usual.
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Post by Mickmack on Feb 11, 2019 23:08:02 GMT
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Post by Tadhgeen on Feb 11, 2019 23:22:06 GMT
I was really impressed by the performance and our work rate on Saturday night. It was noticeable that we are tackling a lot more intelligently and with greater intent and ferocity.
Shane Ryan did ok but kick outs in last 15 could improve. Also he punched a high ball out in first half which he really could have caught.
Crowley was a bit off his man at times in the first half.
Sherwood was clearly instructed to attack high up the field when he got the chance. I am not sure who or if anyone dropped back to cover when he did so.
I thought O’Beaglaíoch did very well throughout.
Tom Sullivan always looked assured and had Scully under control. Scored a great point.
Murph was turned once but other than that was very good and put in one crucial tackle when Dublin were almost in for another goal.
Morley did ok.
Spillane - did not get on the ball much but seemed to nullify his opponent as did Jack B to Fenton to a large extent ( this was crucial for Kerry.
D O’Connor - did not seem to get on a lot of ball but it was hard to see from my position over on the open terrace.
G O’Brien and Moynihan were very good as was O’Shea. They all bring something different to the half forward line. Moynihan is a pocket rocket with a low centre of gravity, a booming kick , tenacity and a super engine. I don’t know if cameras picked up or not but during the second half he was shouldering into Fenton off the ball!
O’Shea is clearly pedigree with a sublime solo run - would love to see him take on players more in a one on one situation.
O’Brien good in the air and scared the daylights out of Dublin running at them with pace.
S O’Brien was his usual busy self and should not be under-estimated in my opinion. He score the goal , worked hard throughout and was crucially involved in our last attack that yielded the winning score - his fisted oass to the on- rushing Moran was excellent.
Geaney did pretty well off not much ball in the first half. Second half things did not work out for him and I though his substitution was wise.
Tommy W did ok won a ball or two scored one and laid off one.
I thought the managemrnt team were excellent . Constantly communicating with each other and the players. They seemed to react very quickly to what was happening on the pitch. They had clearly done their homework on Dublin’s kick out forcing them to the corners and then pressing them hard.
Dublin were on fire once their man went off and we were under fierce pressure especially on their risky high press strategy which ultimately back fired on them when we got the necessary overlaps for the last score
Why they put McCarthy back on Tommy I’ll never know!
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peanuts
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Posts: 1,859
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Post by peanuts on Feb 11, 2019 23:26:17 GMT
Could you not have used the Eir coverage MM with Donaghy as co/commentator? 🤨
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Post by Mickmack on Feb 11, 2019 23:34:34 GMT
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Post by sullyschoice on Feb 11, 2019 23:48:19 GMT
I was really impressed by the performance and our work rate on Saturday night. It was noticeable that we are tackling a lot more intelligently and with greater intent and ferocity. Shane Ryan did ok but kick outs in last 15 could improve. Also he punched a high ball out in first half which he really could have caught. Crowley was a bit off his man at times in the first half. Sherwood was clearly instructed to attack high up the field when he got the chance. I am not sure who or if anyone dropped back to cover when he did so. I thought O’Beaglaíoch did very well throughout. Tom Sullivan always looked assured and had Scully under control. Scored a great point. Murph was turned once but other than that was very good and put in one crucial tackle when Dublin were almost in for another goal. Morley did ok. Spillane - did not get on the ball much but seemed to nullify his opponent as did Jack B to Fenton to a large extent ( this was crucial for Kerry. D O’Connor - did not seem to get on a lot of ball but it was hard to see from my position over on the open terrace. G O’Brien and Moynihan were very good as was O’Shea. They all bring something different to the half forward line. Moynihan is a pocket rocket with a low centre of gravity, a booming kick , tenacity and a super engine. I don’t know if cameras picked up or not but during the second half he was shouldering into Fenton off the ball! O’Shea is clearly pedigree with a sublime solo run - would love to see him take on players more in a one on one situation. O’Brien good in the air and scared the daylights out of Dublin running at them with pace. S O’Brien was his usual busy self and should not be under-estimated in my opinion. He score the goal , worked hard throughout and was crucially involved in our last attack that yielded the winning score - his fisted oass to the on- rushing Moran was excellent. Geaney did pretty well off not much ball in the first half. Second half things did not work out for him and I though his substitution was wise. Tommy W did ok won a ball or two scored one and laid off one. I thought the managemrnt team were excellent . Constantly communicating with each other and the players. They seemed to react very quickly to what was happening on the pitch. They had clearly done their homework on Dublin’s kick out forcing them to the corners and then pressing them hard. Dublin were on fire once their man went off and we were under fierce pressure especially on their risky high press strategy which ultimately back fired on them when we got the necessary overlaps for the last score Why they put McCarthy back on Tommy I’ll never know! I thought O Beaglaoích was under serious pressure from Mannion throughout. Mannion is a class forward on his day.
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Post by colinsworth1 on Feb 12, 2019 0:27:41 GMT
If we’re happy enough to have our midfielders only in a containment Mode then we’re selling ourselves short When was the last Kerry team of any generation that had midfielders that were only there as damage limitation ?
Last. Saturday night in Tralee did any of our starting midfielders take a single shot ?? Compare that to the Dublin midfield ? Mc Carthy scored 3 points and Fintan scored at least one and could have kicked the winner
When did we all collectively agree that we play second fiddle to the opposition 8 and 9 respect them fine but let’s now bow to anyone .
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Feb 12, 2019 3:23:51 GMT
McCarthy didn't play midfield
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Post by colinsworth1 on Feb 12, 2019 5:15:39 GMT
McCarthy didn't play midfield That’s debatable either way Darren Gavin got into advanced positions frequently caused us some problems and was not afraid to have a go ended up scoring a very good point . Setting up at midfield like we do is like going into a fight with one hand tied behind ones back !! But I have confidence our management can address this . Issue
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Post by Tadhgeen on Feb 12, 2019 7:16:18 GMT
I was really impressed by the performance and our work rate on Saturday night. It was noticeable that we are tackling a lot more intelligently and with greater intent and ferocity. Shane Ryan did ok but kick outs in last 15 could improve. Also he punched a high ball out in first half which he really could have caught. Crowley was a bit off his man at times in the first half. Sherwood was clearly instructed to attack high up the field when he got the chance. I am not sure who or if anyone dropped back to cover when he did so. I thought O’Beaglaíoch did very well throughout. Tom Sullivan always looked assured and had Scully under control. Scored a great point. Murph was turned once but other than that was very good and put in one crucial tackle when Dublin were almost in for another goal. Morley did ok. Spillane - did not get on the ball much but seemed to nullify his opponent as did Jack B to Fenton to a large extent ( this was crucial for Kerry. D O’Connor - did not seem to get on a lot of ball but it was hard to see from my position over on the open terrace. G O’Brien and Moynihan were very good as was O’Shea. They all bring something different to the half forward line. Moynihan is a pocket rocket with a low centre of gravity, a booming kick , tenacity and a super engine. I don’t know if cameras picked up or not but during the second half he was shouldering into Fenton off the ball! O’Shea is clearly pedigree with a sublime solo run - would love to see him take on players more in a one on one situation. O’Brien good in the air and scared the daylights out of Dublin running at them with pace. S O’Brien was his usual busy self and should not be under-estimated in my opinion. He score the goal , worked hard throughout and was crucially involved in our last attack that yielded the winning score - his fisted oass to the on- rushing Moran was excellent. Geaney did pretty well off not much ball in the first half. Second half things did not work out for him and I though his substitution was wise. Tommy W did ok won a ball or two scored one and laid off one. I thought the managemrnt team were excellent . Constantly communicating with each other and the players. They seemed to react very quickly to what was happening on the pitch. They had clearly done their homework on Dublin’s kick out forcing them to the corners and then pressing them hard. Dublin were on fire once their man went off and we were under fierce pressure especially on their risky high press strategy which ultimately back fired on them when we got the necessary overlaps for the last score Why they put McCarthy back on Tommy I’ll never know! I thought O Beaglaoích was under serious pressure from Mannion throughout. Mannion is a class forward on his day. Agree Mannion is top class. I still think Beaglaíoch did very well - have not seen Mannion’s goal on TV but at the time thought Murphy might have made an error in the build up - I mighty be wrong though as it was such a high paced and eventful game it’s hard to retain a perfect recollection.
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Post by greengold35 on Feb 12, 2019 8:44:10 GMT
If we’re happy enough to have our midfielders only in a containment Mode then we’re selling ourselves short When was the last Kerry team of any generation that had midfielders that were only there as damage limitation ? Last. Saturday night in Tralee did any of our starting midfielders take a single shot ?? Compare that to the Dublin midfield ? Mc Carthy scored 3 points and Fintan scored at least one and could have kicked the winner When did we all collectively agree that we play second fiddle to the opposition 8 and 9 respect them fine but let’s now bow to anyone . Think its very much a case of " horses for courses" selection; management would have rightly identified Brian Fenton as the main man and nullifying or restricting his impact would have a huge bearing on the game - by the way, I seem to recall Jack Barry having a wide in the second half but that was a rare sortie into enemy territory!
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Post by taggert on Feb 12, 2019 9:02:08 GMT
If we’re happy enough to have our midfielders only in a containment Mode then we’re selling ourselves short When was the last Kerry team of any generation that had midfielders that were only there as damage limitation ? Last. Saturday night in Tralee did any of our starting midfielders take a single shot ?? Compare that to the Dublin midfield ? Mc Carthy scored 3 points and Fintan scored at least one and could have kicked the winner When did we all collectively agree that we play second fiddle to the opposition 8 and 9 respect them fine but let’s now bow to anyone . Think its very much a case of " horses for courses" selection; management would have rightly identified Brian Fenton as the main man and nullifying or restricting his impact would have a huge bearing on the game - by the way, I seem to recall Jack Barry having a wide in the second half but that was a rare sortie into enemy territory! Not sure what Spillane brings to the party and doubt if he will even be on the panel come summer. I get the containment piece but he does not have the pace for that role and he does not get on the ball at all. Thought Begley did ok going forward but for me he is very ropey in the full back line and does not have the height or physique to shackle the big guns like Mannion, McManus et al. Jason Foley on the other hand does.
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kerryexile
Fanatical Member
Whether you believe that you can, or that you can't, you are right anyway.
Posts: 1,124
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Post by kerryexile on Feb 12, 2019 9:18:33 GMT
I see Aidan O’Rourke got to work straight away trying to keep himself relevant. I don’t read his column but the way it was presented in this forum I couldn’t help but notice that he got the negativity into the title of the article. It is now being discussed as if it was gospel.
What we witnessed on Saturday night is totally alien to the culture he is coming from. Its like a child trying to explain the fourth dimension.
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Post by Mickmack on Feb 12, 2019 9:30:02 GMT
I see Aidan O’Rourke got to work straight away trying to keep himself relevant. I don’t read his column but the way it was presented in this forum I couldn’t help but notice that he got the negativity into the title of the article. It is now being discussed as if it was gospel. What we witnessed on Saturday night is totally alien to the culture he is coming from. Its like a child trying to explain the fourth dimension. or maybe Aidan oRourkes point could be put this way.... how many from the Kerry back line from the 2009 final would start today if they were the age they were in 2009.... Marc, Tommy Griffin, Tom Sullivan, Tomas oSe, Mick McCarthy, Young I think the current backs will get to their level in time by the way
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Post by onlykerry on Feb 12, 2019 9:32:45 GMT
I see Aidan O’Rourke got to work straight away trying to keep himself relevant. I don’t read his column but the way it was presented in this forum I couldn’t help but notice that he got the negativity into the title of the article. It is now being discussed as if it was gospel. What we witnessed on Saturday night is totally alien to the culture he is coming from. Its like a child trying to explain the fourth dimension. I'm actually happy to see O'Rourke's piece and would be delighted to see commentators in general being sceptical about Kerry come the championship - the last thing I want to see is Kerry being hyped up at this stage. Let them keep their cool, work hard and come into every battle as underdogs. Games are won on the field not in commentators columns, but they can be lost if guys begin to listen to the hype about themselves.
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MeathExile
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I wonder, is there a goal in this game??
Posts: 199
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Post by MeathExile on Feb 12, 2019 10:44:50 GMT
I don't usually write/talk negatively about people, but O Rourke's articles are so boring its difficult to stay awake reading them. He is trying to set himself up as the tactical master of football but in reality he writes waffle, long-winded rubbish with a few stats thrown in. Hopefully he keeps saying Kerry are not going anywhere....something to put on the dressing room wall.
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Post by dc84 on Feb 12, 2019 11:13:40 GMT
I see Aidan O’Rourke got to work straight away trying to keep himself relevant. I don’t read his column but the way it was presented in this forum I couldn’t help but notice that he got the negativity into the title of the article. It is now being discussed as if it was gospel. What we witnessed on Saturday night is totally alien to the culture he is coming from. Its like a child trying to explain the fourth dimension. or maybe Aidan oRourkes point could be put this way.... how many from the Kerry back line from the 2009 final would start today if they were the age they were in 2009.... Marc, Tommy Griffin, Tom Sullivan, Tomas oSe, Mick McCarthy, Young I think the current backs will get to their level in time by the way In fairness some of the best players we ever produced listed there!! Id say two anyway hard to see how the current tom sullivan couldnt be included and probably murphy aswell
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Post by keepitsimple on Feb 12, 2019 11:48:23 GMT
I just read Aidan O’Rourke’s article- or I should say I read half of it. Talk about boring drivel ! He certainly comes across as the know all plague that you meet in the pub who has read a few articles on sports science and psychology and figures that he has to tell the world what he thinks he knows. Just contrast the articulate, knowledgeable and downright straightforward writing styles of the likes of Micheal Quirke, Tomas O Se, Colm O’Rourke and even Joe Brolly with the self important analysis that Aidan is throwing at us then you’ll get the picture! I hope he doesn’t bore the pants off of the lads in the Queens University dressing room! At the same time he has us eejits in Kerry rising to his tedious bate and getting hot under the collar because of it – we should know better that that at this stage!
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Post by Annascaultilidie on Feb 12, 2019 11:52:35 GMT
The article referenced reads like pseudo-intellectual babble but the writer would not be responsible for coming up with the headline.
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Post by Mickmack on Feb 12, 2019 12:07:53 GMT
to refine ORourkes point even more, do we have anyone to do what Marc used to do which was to blot out whoever the marquee opposition forward happened to be.
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Post by veteran on Feb 12, 2019 12:32:06 GMT
Sincere thanks Mick for posting that video. I can only imagine what that service means to our exiles.
As regards our present defenders in relation to our defenders of 2009, perhaps by year’s end some of them , with guidance from Donie, may warrant comparison with the likes of Marc etc. But of course the likes of Marc are team of the century material. A couple approaching that status may suffice. Time will tell.
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