kerryexile
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Whether you believe that you can, or that you can't, you are right anyway.
Posts: 1,117
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Post by kerryexile on Mar 21, 2017 22:23:03 GMT
I watched the game again on Youtube. You can only see so much on tv. Did Barry do a man to man job on Fenton or did Fenton just have a bad night? Also how did Lyne play when he came on? I thought Lyne was poor to be honest....just doesn't/didn't get tight enough on his man at any stage and most likely to lose out I'd imagine when the U21s rejoin the panel. I thought Jack Barry had a good game and certainly gave Fenton enough to think about. That's what I thought Joxer on both counts. I don't like criticising Lyne because he is a very good footballer but is no way a defender. I can't understand why he is played there.
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Post by Ballyfireside on Mar 21, 2017 22:53:19 GMT
I watched the game again on Youtube. You can only see so much on tv. Did Barry do a man to man job on Fenton or did Fenton just have a bad night? Also how did Lyne play when he came on? Wasn't live on Youtube?
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Post by An Bradán on Mar 21, 2017 23:24:07 GMT
I would again like to apologise to everyone over the post I made above. I am trying to get control to delete all posts referring to it. I am hoping anyone who quoted the post would also delete it. I realise now that I posted in grave error and I am really sorry. The worst part is I named someone and I particularly apologise for that. We may make mistakes-but they must never be mistakes which result from faintness of heart or abandonment of moral principle. Franklin D. Roosevelt Let those who have never made a mistake criticise you. I've been following this forum for years and have rarely posted but have always found your posts to have contributed greatly even if I differed with them. Relax Annascaul and keep the faith.
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kerryexile
Fanatical Member
Whether you believe that you can, or that you can't, you are right anyway.
Posts: 1,117
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Post by kerryexile on Mar 21, 2017 23:51:34 GMT
I watched the game again on Youtube. You can only see so much on tv. Did Barry do a man to man job on Fenton or did Fenton just have a bad night? Also how did Lyne play when he came on? Wasn't live on Youtube? Not live - watched it on the link given in a previous post.
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Post by Attacking Wing Back on Mar 22, 2017 0:03:23 GMT
I am sick of you posting the same stuff up on every thread about the TV deal. And there is no need for the bold or caps either. A say you had something online as well last night accusing the GAA of taking backhanders which I presume was taken down. I am going to report this post to Control. Fine you have a point, but stop ramming it down our throats. Im sure the people of Down and Kildare were glad of the chance to watch their teams on tv. Were we not on FTA eir sport for the Mayo match? I don't really care what you think and if you only read what you agree with God bless you and I have no desire to hear your personal views if that is what is between your ears. I am free to use whatever font on my PC and threads as I see fit and you have no place to order others about. MY POINT WAS THAT HAVING PAID A SUBSCRIPTION (ONLY ONE, NOT SKY!) TO A CHANNEL THAT WAS SOLD UNDER CONTRACT BY THE GAA, NEITHER OF THE TWO TOP GAMES WAS SHOWN LIVE. I AM VERY DISAPPOINTED WITH THAT AND I AM ENTITLED TO MAKE THE APPROPRIATE COMMENT AND AS MANY OTHERS HAVE. I THINK THE GAA BETRAYED IT'S COMMUNITY BY AGREEING TO SUCH TERMS AND THE REASON MUST BE DUBIOUS, I.E. THEY CAN'T EVEN USE ATTENDANCE AS AN EXCUSE AS BOTH GAMES WERE SOLD OUT LONG BEFORE. HOW YOU CAN CRITICIZE SUPPORTERS WORLDWIDE OF 4 OF THE BEST 6 TEAMS FOR BEING DISAPPOINTED, MOREOVER ON A BANK HOLIDAY SAT NIGHT IT IS PATHETIC. IT IS ALL THE WORSE AS IT ASLO BETRAYS THE AMATEUR STATUS OF THE GAME. There is a good article in the Indo today by Brian O'Driscoll and my contention is that the GAA Pay Per View is going down the road that has Driscioll saying this, that is in contrast to Munster's open policy and the reasons behind Connaoght's most recent success. I firmly believe that sports should be freely available on TV for youngsters and that will determine the success of the games going forward. I mean it is a hardly something I just made up -I'd say the vast majority feel strongly about it, and unless you have a constructive reply Attacking Wing Back, then feel free to read elsewhere as you have nothing to offer me by way of insight. I have no problem with what you are saying but, do you have to post it constantly along work the rant about trying cancel sky. Why not start a separate thread? As for me not offering you any insight I care not one jot for your opinion and I'm sure the feeling is mutual. And I think I will park it there
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Post by Attacking Wing Back on Mar 22, 2017 0:05:03 GMT
I am sick of you posting the same stuff up on every thread about the TV deal. And there is no need for the bold or caps either. A say you had something online as well last night accusing the GAA of taking backhanders which I presume was taken down. I am going to report this post to Control. Fine you have a point, but stop ramming it down our throats. Im sure the people of Down and Kildare were glad of the chance to watch their teams on tv. Were we not on FTA eir sport for the Mayo match? There is a kinda ignore button. Useful. Very funny from the man posting up lies about cold showers etc Only messing!
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Post by Ballyfireside on Mar 22, 2017 7:05:07 GMT
I don't really care what you think and if you only read what you agree with God bless you and I have no desire to hear your personal views if that is what is between your ears. I am free to use whatever font on my PC and threads as I see fit and you have no place to order others about. MY POINT WAS THAT HAVING PAID A SUBSCRIPTION (ONLY ONE, NOT SKY!) TO A CHANNEL THAT WAS SOLD UNDER CONTRACT BY THE GAA, NEITHER OF THE TWO TOP GAMES WAS SHOWN LIVE. I AM VERY DISAPPOINTED WITH THAT AND I AM ENTITLED TO MAKE THE APPROPRIATE COMMENT AND AS MANY OTHERS HAVE. I THINK THE GAA BETRAYED IT'S COMMUNITY BY AGREEING TO SUCH TERMS AND THE REASON MUST BE DUBIOUS, I.E. THEY CAN'T EVEN USE ATTENDANCE AS AN EXCUSE AS BOTH GAMES WERE SOLD OUT LONG BEFORE. HOW YOU CAN CRITICIZE SUPPORTERS WORLDWIDE OF 4 OF THE BEST 6 TEAMS FOR BEING DISAPPOINTED, MOREOVER ON A BANK HOLIDAY SAT NIGHT IT IS PATHETIC. IT IS ALL THE WORSE AS IT ASLO BETRAYS THE AMATEUR STATUS OF THE GAME. There is a good article in the Indo today by Brian O'Driscoll and my contention is that the GAA Pay Per View is going down the road that has Driscioll saying this, that is in contrast to Munster's open policy and the reasons behind Connaoght's most recent success. I firmly believe that sports should be freely available on TV for youngsters and that will determine the success of the games going forward. I mean it is a hardly something I just made up -I'd say the vast majority feel strongly about it, and unless you have a constructive reply Attacking Wing Back, then feel free to read elsewhere as you have nothing to offer me by way of insight. I have no problem with what you are saying but, do you have to post it constantly along work the rant about trying cancel sky. Why not start a separate thread? As for me not offering you any insight I care not one jot for your opinion and I'm sure the feeling is mutual. And I think I will park it there My post was centered on a Div 2 game being given preference over two Div 1 games on Eir and that the GAA as a voluntary sport should better manage how it connects with it's community. It specifically referred to last Sat night and as this is a Kerry forum the right place to post it was on the thread for the bloody match. In essence one needs 3 subscriptions, Standard and Upgraded Eir plus Sky -many older GAA folk wouldn't even know how to go about getting one. And as we are at it, the GAA continues to have games as Gaeilge when none of us can understand it - I tghink this needs to be changed until we have an cúpla focal sorted -sad as it is, that would be the lesser of two evils. I have tried and failed to get over the Gaeilge threshold and it takes a bit from games when you don't know what is being said and the radio is purposely out of sync with the play. Now I think these are valid, reasonable and significant issues, but if anyone thinks otherwise then as Tomás of the poles says, there is always the ignore button!
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kot
Fanatical Member
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Post by kot on Mar 22, 2017 9:43:40 GMT
The thing was that because Kerry restricted Dublin to so few shots, he had a lower than average number of kickouts and even still he made a hames of one. Also with the majority of his kickouts were good, I think Murphy has a higher ceiling. In the club final Shane Murphy had one absolute peach of a kickout to Buckley - right into his chest out around the middle of the pitch ; Buckley played on and laid it one for Looney (I think) to pop over the bar. Basically the quality of the kickout was a major factor in creating the score - I think Murphy is far more likely to be able to do this on a consistent basis than either Kealy or Kelly. As defences improve kickouts are far more important than shot-stopping - you are likely to have something between the order of 20 to 30 kickouts a game, whereas the number of goal chances where the shot-stopping ability of a keeper are going to come into play are a lot less frequent. Shane Murphy had 3 poor kickouts in the club semi-final against Corofin. I would stick with Kealy as there seems to be an improvement with his kickouts. What about the several wayward kickouts he made in semi & in the final? Not to mention being sidestepped very easily for the goal in a way that Kealy I am sure would not have. For all his faults, Kealy is an excellent shot stopper. I would have been ones from seeing county championship that thought Murphy could be the answer but now I am not so sure. I know that Kelly/Kealy are a bit of a weak link in goals with the quality & speed of their restarts being questionable but Shane Muprhy has been touted as the knight in shining armour, perhaps unfairly by all of us, with expectations being put on him based... particularly on what we have seen outside of club level in Kerry. After all, maybe there was a good reason why Kilcummin stuck by Kealy also and he had to move to Crokes in the first place?
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Post by Mickmack on Mar 22, 2017 10:51:58 GMT
Dublin lost a lot of their own restarts until flynn came on. Cluxton looked human but kerry really gave him poor options for a lot of the time. Kerry lost a rake of their own restarts in the second half
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Post by Mickmack on Mar 22, 2017 22:13:30 GMT
This video shows how Kerry got on the ball v Dublin and what they did with that possession
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Post by thebluepanther on Mar 23, 2017 0:13:04 GMT
Kerry played hard on Saturday night and at times kicked some lovely scores, at start of second half really got some momentum and looked the likely team to win, Moran was having a great game. Morley was tough and Geaney was his usual best. Crowley was getting forward. Early in this game Kerry hit hard on and off the ball,tackled in numbers, the clear gameplan was unsettle Cluxton, get at Fenton and hold Kilkenny so he can't make runs. It was working. The tactic of unsettling Cluxton went as far as Geaney running over twice and kicking away footballs he had ready for quick kickouts, nothing wrong i quess and it worked. Getting the win was all that mattered. If Dublin done it to get a win that was badly needed on home soil im quite sure id justify it. But for all this endeavour and energy and good play which got Kerry a four point lead, Dublin then kicked 6 unanswered points went 2 up and at that point I thought Kerry were gone, if we had more experienced guys out there at that time i felt the game was over . But to be fair Kerry never gave up then went and scored 4 points , some good and fair tackling turned over a lot of ball and ye got your scores. But we then got the next two scores and won the last kickout of the game ,Flynn had posession bearing down past midfield a pass to any of Dublins forwards and we had a tap over the bar and game over , but he hit it straight to a Kerry lad , eventually Kerry worked the ball up the pitch and Barry John Keane then had and chance to kick over for Kerry to win it, he scewed it and then the ref blew time up. All the players shook hands and everything that happened was left on the pitch. Crowley could be seen to say "f..k it" at the final whistle , this was a game Kerry wanted to win. But Dublin still wouldn't go away. If im from Kerry before the game all I'd care about is players showing pride and a bit of fight which was lacking in previous games and the Dubs not arriving in town and having it handy. After the game id be very positive, looked like for the first time in a while that Kerry could win midfield. Younger lads didnt look out of place ,you then got some great runs from the younger lads and very nearly got the win. Although to be honest i dont know if I'd read too much into game in the bigger context. Kerry had huge motivation for this game and like 2015 league game ,the tabloids the next few days were about Kerry laying down a marker and how they showed they weren't going to be pushed around. We know happened later in the year. Kerry might well beat Dublin this year if we meet in championship, but I wouldn't judge a hand that Fitzmaurice showed on Saturday night as having cracked the Dubs. I know Kerry have lads to come back , but I think James mc Carthy, Johnny Cooper and Jack mc Caffreys runs were missing on Saturday night you then have also have Diarmuid Connolly . Having said that having watched the game back a few times, Kerry certainly showed huge intensity and aggression. If JoD is playing well with Geaney it's a potential force. Will be interesting if this can be kept up or is it only kept for the Dubs in Tralee or Killarney.
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Post by Annascaultilidie on Mar 23, 2017 6:46:48 GMT
Are we going to fall into the trap of asking for an unsustainable level of intensity?
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Post by Mickmack on Mar 23, 2017 8:51:24 GMT
Kerry played hard on Saturday night and at times kicked some lovely scores, at start of second half really got some momentum and looked the likely team to win, Moran was having a great game. Morley was tough and Geaney was his usual best. Crowley was getting forward. Early in this game Kerry hit hard on and off the ball,tackled in numbers, the clear gameplan was unsettle Cluxton, get at Fenton and hold Kilkenny so he can't make runs. It was working. The tactic of unsettling Cluxton went as far as Geaney running over twice and kicking away footballs he had ready for quick kickouts, nothing wrong i quess and it worked. Getting the win was all that mattered. If Dublin done it to get a win that was badly needed on home soil im quite sure id justify it. But for all this endeavour and energy and good play which got Kerry a four point lead, Dublin then kicked 6 unanswered points went 2 up and at that point I thought Kerry were gone, if we had more experienced guys out there at that time i felt the game was over . But to be fair Kerry never gave up then went and scored 4 points , some good and fair tackling turned over a lot of ball and ye got your scores. But we then got the next two scores and won the last kickout of the game ,Flynn had posession bearing down past midfield a pass to any of Dublins forwards and we had a tap over the bar and game over , but he hit it straight to a Kerry lad , eventually Kerry worked the ball up the pitch and Barry John Keane then had and chance to kick over for Kerry to win it, he scewed it and then the ref blew time up. All the players shook hands and everything that happened was left on the pitch. Crowley could be seen to say "f..k it" at the final whistle , this was a game Kerry wanted to win. But Dublin still wouldn't go away. If im from Kerry before the game all I'd care about is players showing pride and a bit of fight which was lacking in previous games and the Dubs not arriving in town and having it handy. After the game id be very positive, looked like for the first time in a while that Kerry could win midfield. Younger lads didnt look out of place ,you then got some great runs from the younger lads and very nearly got the win. Although to be honest i dont know if I'd read too much into game in the bigger context. Kerry had huge motivation for this game and like 2015 league game ,the tabloids the next few days were about Kerry laying down a marker and how they showed they weren't going to be pushed around. We know happened later in the year. Kerry might well beat Dublin this year if we meet in championship, but I wouldn't judge a hand that Fitzmaurice showed on Saturday night as having cracked the Dubs. I know Kerry have lads to come back , but I think James mc Carthy, Johnny Cooper and Jack mc Caffreys runs were missing on Saturday night you then have also have Diarmuid Connolly . Having said that having watched the game back a few times, Kerry certainly showed huge intensity and aggression. If JoD is playing well with Geaney it's a potential force. Will be interesting if this can be kept up or is it only kept for the Dubs in Tralee or Killarney. McCarthy, Cooper and Connolly were missed. Throw in Cormac Costello and Con OCallaghan and thats a third of a team. Plus Bernard who might yet have a big say. And the Croke Park factor. The Dubs looked like they were asked to drive the wifes car for the day. Instead of indicators the wipers came on. And so little room. They didnt crash but twas close. Back into the Subaru for the summer
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Post by jackiel on Mar 23, 2017 10:03:16 GMT
Costello is out injured and may be for some time, there are plenty of others to fill his place though.
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Post by Seoirse Ui Duic on Mar 23, 2017 15:29:23 GMT
I needed a few days after the game to gather my thoughts and decide whether it was a good or a bad result. I'm still disappointed we lost, kicked the game away, but I also believe that everyone in Austin Stack Park on Saturday, players, managers, supporters, and so on, know we can beat the Dubs. In recent years we came close, but always buckled in the end. Though we had a mini collapse towards the end, I'm a 100% convinced we should have and could have won the game. Despite nobody giving Kerry a chance, not in the least the people here, myself included, they have almost done the impossible. The Dubs know that after drawing with Donegal, Tyrone and now Kerry they have to count themselves very lucky for not losing those games. Yes, Kerry did not win and Dublin still believe themselves to be unbeaten, but they seem more vulnerable than ever to me. Gavin even panicked a bit and went back to Brogan, Flynn and McManamon. Dublin were lucky to finish the game and the first half with 15 players and Lowndes should have walked. Not that any of the Kerry boys are angels, but it was clear we got under the Dublin skin and frustrated them. The bad is that we gave 12 scorable frees away and Dean Rock kicked over 9. The good is that we restricted Dublin to only 4 points from play, 2 in each half. By comparison we had 9 frees and 2 45s as far as I can tell, but most of those frees were further out in the field. I'm delighted to see Paul Geaney stepping up as the designated free taker, but still can't understand why Kealy is taking the 45s. You could tell by the murmurs of Kerry supporters that they were as surprised as I am when he did get the one 45 over the bar. I don't want to be too negative about Kealy, but the fact that we keep alternating between Kelly and Kealy means that even Eamon isn't too convinced about who the best keeper is. Looking at Shane Ryan and Shane Murphy I'm sure most in Kerry will agree that they at least should have been given a chance. With the importance of kickouts in modern football the keeper has become more and more important. Just like a freetaker has become more important in an era with low scoring games. I get the idea of having a keeper kick the 45s, but it's not working for us. We are missing a long free taker as well and though I'm not sure how Sheehan would fit into the team, I think he should be given a run against Cavan. He looked very fit when he came on against Monaghan, but 13 seconds isn't enough to base that on. The word in Cahirciveen is that he played very well against Templenoe though I admit I wasn't at the game.
A lot of negativity here as well about the way Kerry played and it wasn't pretty, but it is total myth that Dublin play the open, total football they like us to believe they play. Dublin too put men behind the ball and attack on the counter. Dublin too fight for the breaking ball and live on turnovers. In my opinion Kerry played very well on Saturday. They made it almost impossible for Dublin to score, looked like they have found a way to stop teams run through the middle. If only we learn how to tackle properly we wouldn't be too far off the business end of the season. Donie Buckley is missed a lot, but surely there is others that know how to tackle as well. It's not like it's a new thing in football to tackle well.
Jack Barry and Moran played very well in the middle and by comparison I thought Maher lacked a bit of pace when he came on. I'm wondering if he can get more pace later in the season. If not we might be looking to Sheehan, Donaghy or Griffin to go into midfield. The last time we saw Tommy Walsh play for Kerry he was plucking balls of the sky, but wasn't very pacy. Like with Maher it might be wise to put a few training sessions on both to get them up to speed. On the other hand, we should probably reduce the amount of players on the panel rather than increase it. With Walsh at 29, Maher at 30 and Donaghy at 34 it is probably a good idea to start looking at youth as well. Barry impresses me so far. Ó Seanacháin and O'Sullivan might train with the panel once the U21 championship is over. It would be good to get them up to speed.
Adrian Spillane and Kevin McCarthy played very well on Saturday as did Morley and Shanahan so we have plenty of youth stepping up at the moment. Hopefully Young and Enright aren't too badly injured though as we really need some more leaders in the backs. It forced Murphy to go back and we were a lot less effective when he did. Savage didn't thrive against Dublin, but is also a player that likes a bit of room and very little was given. I would brought on Darran O'Sullivan instead of Stephen O'Brien, but for once O'Brien did very well. He caused all sorts of problems to Dublin, but Darran brought even more of that running with him when he came on. Griffin finally played a full game and did well in my opinion. Keeping Dublin from scoring goals is important and apart from a massive scare Dublin didn't create any goal chances. By contrast we wasted another few points and goal chances ourselves again and that needs to be stamped out. With summer football the class and the style usually comes back and hopefully we do convert all those goal chances into goals in the summer.
All in all, a good game to see where we are at, but not a good game to watch. I expect a few changes for the Cavan game and hopefully we will see another Kerry win. It's vital that we do win and get momentum. A win in Cavan should secure division 1 status and gives us the confidence to beat Tyrone in Killarney.
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Post by An Bradán on Mar 23, 2017 17:14:18 GMT
Well said Seoirse.
A fine summation of the game. By and large I agree with your assessment of the players and their performances but I propose a different perspective on a few things. My guess is that Fitzy is rotating the goalies to keep them both match sharp and to maintain competition. Whether or not either or both of the Shanes are ready yet is and will be undecided until we see them perform at this level over a season. We know both of our current goalies are certainly capable if not perfect. The defensive system which is not entirely new was tried out in the Monaghan game for all to see but was not executed with enough intensity or aggression both of which are essential. Jack Barry has the physique and ability but above all he has tons of pace. This is something the Moran / Maher combo don't which has cost us badly especially when dealing with Fenton. Jack Barry will be a Championship starter. A lot of attention has focussed on the u21's as the coming bunch but apart from them a whole bunch of new players has bedded in over the past 18 months. Tadhg Morley looks a real leader on the pitch now but the majority of football fans would have known little or nothing of him a year ago. Shanahan, McCarthy Savage, Spillane et al have shown great promise and will contribute greatly to the cause.
The performances in the league have been inconsistent this year and injuries have played a big part but I think we got a good glimpse of what Summer may bring. A fully strength Dublin are still in pole position but we're gathering pace and have nothing to fear.
P.S. I'm hearing rumours of another retirement sadly. I sincerely hope they're completely wrong but we may know more by the weekend.
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Post by givehimaball on Mar 23, 2017 18:29:48 GMT
I I get the idea of having a keeper kick the 45s, but it's not working for us. We are missing a long free taker as well and though I'm not sure how Sheehan would fit into the team, I think he should be given a run against Cavan. He looked very fit when he came on against Monaghan, but 13 seconds isn't enough to base that on. The word in Cahirciveen is that he played very well against Templenoe though I admit I wasn't at the game. Given how disciplined Cavan have been in terms of conceding scores from deadballs in the league, I think it's very hard to make the case for "carrying" a free taker against them. I wouldn't be surprised if they are the team with the lowest percentage of points conceded from frees in the league. Also worth noting that they have only conceded 1 goal in the league (this is the joint lowest in all 4th Division, with Wexford in Division 4 being the other team with only 1 goal conceded) The Mayo game stands out as a big anomly in terms of their attacking performance - prior to that they had scored a total of 1-38 in 4 games (an average of just over 10 points a game) In the Mayo game they scored 1-14 (17) points. I'd put a lot of this down to a very poor defensive performance by Mayo. Cavan's midfield pairing scored 1-7 (3 from frees) but their 6 forwards only managed 5 points and McVeety got 3 of these. To me they still look like a team that just doesn't have the forwards for Division 1 football. I can see Kerry having a lot of possession. The key thing is not to great frustrated and also to be wary of their counter-attack as a huge portion of their scores against Mayo were counter-attacking scores.
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Post by Seoirse Ui Duic on Mar 23, 2017 18:38:24 GMT
I I get the idea of having a keeper kick the 45s, but it's not working for us. We are missing a long free taker as well and though I'm not sure how Sheehan would fit into the team, I think he should be given a run against Cavan. He looked very fit when he came on against Monaghan, but 13 seconds isn't enough to base that on. The word in Cahirciveen is that he played very well against Templenoe though I admit I wasn't at the game. Given how disciplined Cavan have been in terms of conceding scores from deadballs in the league, I think it's very hard to make the case for "carrying" a free taker against them. I wouldn't be surprised if they are the team with the lowest percentage of points conceded from frees in the league. Also worth noting that they have only conceded 1 goal in the league (this is the joint lowest in all 4th Division, with Wexford in Division 4 being the other team with only 1 goal conceded) The Mayo game stands out as a big anomly in terms of their attacking performance - prior to that they had scored a total of 1-38 in 4 games (an average of just over 10 points a game) In the Mayo game they scored 1-14 (17) points. I'd put a lot of this down to a very poor defensive performance by Mayo. Cavan's midfield pairing scored 1-7 (3 from frees) but their 6 forwards only managed 5 points and McVeety got 3 of these. To me they still look like a team that just doesn't have the forwards for Division 1 football. I can see Kerry having a lot of possession. The key thing is not to great frustrated and also to be wary of their counter-attack as a huge portion of their scores against Mayo were counter-attacking scores. I wouldn't see having Sheehan on is "carrying" a freetaker. If he's that bad, than why have him on the panel at all. In most of Cavan's games they put men behind the ball and were happy to let the opposition take the ball to them. They are superdisciplined indeed, but they do concede frees. In a game like that every score is vital and I would expect a few low range frees. Is Kealy going to take the frees from 40 yards out, or Geaney, or Moran? My money would be on Sheehan to kick them all over the bar. In a game where every wide can be seen as a point for Cavan we need to score every free we get. Sheehan is also a very good kicker of the ball when executing the foot pass and that might come in handy with the forwards we have. Can we afford to not play Sheehan at all until we really need him? What if Barry or Moran, or both, get injured? In my opinion a game like this is made for Sheehan.
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Post by Seoirse Ui Duic on Mar 23, 2017 18:43:33 GMT
Well said Seoirse. A fine summation of the game. By and large I agree with your assessment of the players and their performances but I propose a different perspective on a few things. My guess is that Fitzy is rotating the goalies to keep them both match sharp and to maintain competition. Whether or not either or both of the Shanes are ready yet is and will be undecided until we see them perform at this level over a season. We know both of our current goalies are certainly capable if not perfect. The defensive system which is not entirely new was tried out in the Monaghan game for all to see but was not executed with enough intensity or aggression both of which are essential. Jack Barry has the physique and ability but above all he has tons of pace. This is something the Moran / Maher combo don't which has cost us badly especially when dealing with Fenton. Jack Barry will be a Championship starter. A lot of attention has focussed on the u21's as the coming bunch but apart from them a whole bunch of new players has bedded in over the past 18 months. Tadhg Morley looks a real leader on the pitch now but the majority of football fans would have known little or nothing of him a year ago. Shanahan, McCarthy Savage, Spillane et al have shown great promise and will contribute greatly to the cause. The performances in the league have been inconsistent this year and injuries have played a big part but I think we got a good glimpse of what Summer may bring. A fully strength Dublin are still in pole position but we're gathering pace and have nothing to fear. P.S. I'm hearing rumours of another retirement sadly. I sincerely hope they're completely wrong but we may know more by the weekend. To be honest I think we left it too late to try the two Shanes. Shane Ryan won't be back until after the U21s finish and Shane Murphy would have little time with the team until he has to play a game. Where are we going to try him? Against Cavan? Against Tyrone? In the championship? It's not so easy to change keepers mid season. I understand why Eamon is rotating the keepers, but if he was convinced that one was better than the other that one would see more gametime. I have also heard rumours, but won't believe any of them until they are confirmed from the horse's mouth.
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Post by givehimaball on Mar 23, 2017 20:40:26 GMT
Given how disciplined Cavan have been in terms of conceding scores from deadballs in the league, I think it's very hard to make the case for "carrying" a free taker against them. I wouldn't be surprised if they are the team with the lowest percentage of points conceded from frees in the league. Also worth noting that they have only conceded 1 goal in the league (this is the joint lowest in all 4th Division, with Wexford in Division 4 being the other team with only 1 goal conceded) The Mayo game stands out as a big anomly in terms of their attacking performance - prior to that they had scored a total of 1-38 in 4 games (an average of just over 10 points a game) In the Mayo game they scored 1-14 (17) points. I'd put a lot of this down to a very poor defensive performance by Mayo. Cavan's midfield pairing scored 1-7 (3 from frees) but their 6 forwards only managed 5 points and McVeety got 3 of these. To me they still look like a team that just doesn't have the forwards for Division 1 football. I can see Kerry having a lot of possession. The key thing is not to great frustrated and also to be wary of their counter-attack as a huge portion of their scores against Mayo were counter-attacking scores. I wouldn't see having Sheehan on is "carrying" a freetaker. If he's that bad, than why have him on the panel at all. In most of Cavan's games they put men behind the ball and were happy to let the opposition take the ball to them. They are superdisciplined indeed, but they do concede frees. In a game like that every score is vital and I would expect a few low range frees. Is Kealy going to take the frees from 40 yards out, or Geaney, or Moran? My money would be on Sheehan to kick them all over the bar. In a game where every wide can be seen as a point for Cavan we need to score every free we get. Sheehan is also a very good kicker of the ball when executing the foot pass and that might come in handy with the forwards we have. Can we afford to not play Sheehan at all until we really need him? What if Barry or Moran, or both, get injured? In my opinion a game like this is made for Sheehan. I just don't think there is a place for Sheehan in the squad, especially not at midfield. If Barry or Moran were both injured for a game in the summer, I'd be looking at Maher, Buckley, Donaghy, or even the likes Morley, D Walsh or Griffin all ahead of Sheehan at midfield. He just doesn't have the pace to get around the pitch at inter-county level and any half-decent inter-county midfielder is very likely to have him in trouble. If it were me picking the team I'd have Shane Murphy in goals and he would have responsibility for the 45s and long-distance ones. That's the course of action that I think represents the best chance of bringing home Sam.
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Post by ruralgaa on Mar 24, 2017 10:13:43 GMT
I heard from a couple of people that were both at & playing in the match that Bryan Sheehan played very well against Templenoe the next day. Kicked some outrageous frees and was very fired up. Match report from the game about his frees:
Div1 County SFL,
Templenoe 0-07, St Mary’s Cahersiveen 0-13.
The opening round of this year’s County Senior Football League kicked off in very wet and blustery conditions. Templenoe played with the aid of the breeze, but Brian Sheehan opened the scoring with a pointed free. Templenoe’s first score came from a Stephen O’Sullivan point, and followed up soon afterwards with a point from a Brian Crowley free. After these opening scores, it took another 10 minutes for another. Both teams were struggling to get ball into the scoring areas, and Templenoe were not making advantage of the wind.
Paulie O’Donoghue and Stephen O’Sullivan swapped scores, and after a series of Templenoe wide’s, Daniel Daly levelled matters with 5 minutes left in the half. The final score of the half was scored by Brian Crowley leaving Templenoe up by a point, Templenoe 0-04, St Mary’s 0-03.
Despite playing into the wind, Templenoe started brighter, and Denis O’Neill kicked a point to extend their lead. St Mary’s started to utilise the conditions, and the game was decided in the next 10 minutes when the kicked 5 great points. Brian Sheehan (2), Conor O’Shea (2) and Sean Cournane getting the scores. Stephen O’Sullivan pointed for the home side, but St Mary’s notched another 2 scores, leaving Templenoe chasing the game on a score of Templenoe 0-06, St Mary’s 0-10 with 10 minutes remaining.
Brian Sheehan treated the crowd to 2 great points from frees in the final period. One from the left hand sideline 14 metres from the endline, and the other from just inside the St Mary’s half of the pitch. Templenoe kicked the last point of the match through the boot of Gavin Crowley, leaving St Mary’s victorious on a score of Templenoe 0-07, St Mary’s 0-13.
Templenoe Scorers: Stephen O’Sullivan 0-03, Brian Crowley 0-01, Denis O’Neill 0-01, Pat Spillane 0-01, Gavin Crowley 0-01
Templenoe Team: Anthony Sheehan, Mike Hallissey, Kieran O’Neill, Jonathan Egan, Will Sheehy, Danny Cahalane, Kieran McCarthy, Gavin Crowley, Josh Crowley-Holland, Shane Cremin, Pat Spillane, John Rice, Denis O’Neill, Stephen O’Sullivan, Brian Crowley.
Subs: Joseph Sheehan, Martin Reilly, Eoin Murphy, John Moriarty
St Mary’s Scorers: Bryan Sheehan 0-05, Conor O’Shea 0-02, Dan Daly 0-02, Sean Cournane 0-02, Paulie O’Donoghue 0-01, Anthony Cournane 0-01
St Mary’s Team: Micheal Daly, Pat Cournane, Brian Curren, Ian Casey, Conor Quirke, Conor O’Shea, Dan O’Sullivan, Darragh O’Sullivan, Paulie O’Donoghue, Adam Quirke, Dan Daly, Bryan Sheehan, Sean Cournane, Anthony Cournane, Darren Casey.
Subs: Mark Quigley, Kielan Moriarty, Niall O’Shea
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Post by Attacking Wing Back on Mar 24, 2017 11:39:04 GMT
I would be in faour of Kealy keeping the slot in goals. He has improved his kickouts no end. Also the other options the Shane Ryan etc need to spend some time with the squad. Maybe a years apprenticeships before getting a go in the league next year if they dont get a go this year.
Also the main problem isnt with Kealys actual kick its with the movement outside. Watch the next time a ball is pinged out to Kilkenny or Flynn on the run. It looks like he is miles ahead of his man and running into open space. The man receive the ball is normally moving diagonally across the pitch as opposed to straight up and dowm.
Before the ball is kicked a dublin player will block the man marking the target of the kickout. Nothing obvious. Just a second or two. Something to give him the 3 or 4 yards head start. Thats why the kick is always to the wing. The dub is coming out of a crowd where one of his own men can block his marker. Its straight out of a basketball play with screening players etc and its no doubt Jason Sherlock and more importantly one of Irish basketball best coaches Mark Ingle have had a hand in. In basketball everything is about creating that 1 second of space for a shot. Being a non contact sport you have to devise ways of doing it.
In some of cluxtons kickouts there are at least 3 stake holders. Cluxton to kick the ball, the receiver, and just as importantly a man to check the run of the receivers marker. 3 people working off a pre ordained plan and executing it.
Thats why some of cluxtons kickouts looked so wayward in Tralee the last night. There was no one to check the runner as the man to do the blocking of the kerry player was already probably been held off the ball by his own man so there was no free pass for the dublin receiver to pick up a handy ball. Cluxton was still kicking to the same areas only the timing was off by a few seconds. Where as before the dub would have picked the ball up on the sideline easily enough his run was delayed as there was no one to block his man, thus the ball ran over the line.
I dont think we have anything like that sophistication in our kickout strategy.
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Post by Mickmack on Mar 24, 2017 11:46:37 GMT
Donaghy could bring a lot to the table from the basketball if he were asked.
The tighter confines of ASP were a factor too in cluxtons kickouts going out of play.
I agree with the overall point that are losing the tactical battle too.
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Post by Attacking Wing Back on Mar 24, 2017 12:04:56 GMT
I think it would be unfair in fairness to ask a current player to be coaching as well if you get me. There are pleany of coaches out there with a good basketball pedigree behind them.
Mike Quirke instantly springs to mind.
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Post by Ballyfireside on Mar 24, 2017 13:06:06 GMT
I would be in faour of Kealy keeping the slot in goals. He has improved his kickouts no end. Also the other options the Shane Ryan etc need to spend some time with the squad. Maybe a years apprenticeships before getting a go in the league next year if they dont get a go this year. Also the main problem isnt with Kealys actual kick its with the movement outside. Watch the next time a ball is pinged out to Kilkenny or Flynn on the run. It looks like he is miles ahead of his man and running into open space. The man receive the ball is normally moving diagonally across the pitch as opposed to straight up and dowm. Before the ball is kicked a dublin player will block the man marking the target of the kickout. Nothing obvious. Just a second or two. Something to give him the 3 or 4 yards head start. Thats why the kick is always to the wing. The dub is coming out of a crowd where one of his own men can block his marker. Its straight out of a basketball play with screening players etc and its no doubt Jason Sherlock and more importantly one of Irish basketball best coaches Mark Ingle have had a hand in. In basketball everything is about creating that 1 second of space for a shot. Being a non contact sport you have to devise ways of doing it. In some of cluxtons kickouts there are at least 3 stake holders. Cluxton to kick the ball, the receiver, and just as importantly a man to check the run of the receivers marker. 3 people working off a pre ordained plan and executing it. Thats why some of cluxtons kickouts looked so wayward in Tralee the last night. There was no one to check the runner as the man to do the blocking of the kerry player was already probably been held off the ball by his own man so there was no free pass for the dublin receiver to pick up a handy ball. Cluxton was still kicking to the same areas only the timing was off by a few seconds. Where as before the dub would have picked the ball up on the sideline easily enough his run was delayed as there was no one to block his man, thus the ball ran over the line. I dont think we have anything like that sophistication in our kickout strategy. Listowel's Johnny Flaherty once marked Dwyer's card having picked up on Cullen sending discreet signals as to where the kickout would be targeted, like with Rugby throw-ins. In his book Spillane mentioned that he was '7up' - verbal code, him being a publican? No doubt but the porter gang would stronger ID branding!
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Post by An Bradán on Mar 24, 2017 13:17:54 GMT
[/quote]Listowel's Johnny Flaherty once marked Dwyer's card having picked up on Cullen sending discreet signals as to where the kickout would be targeted, coded, a bit like Rugby throw-ins.[/quote]
Johnny Flaherty was a great coach and reader of the game. He was years ahead in many ways.
Dublin also use a very obvious screening / blocking manoeuvre in open play when passing to one another where the passer effectively becomes a screen against the receiver's marker. It operates like two semi circular movements coming together. Sounds complicated but operates very simply in practice.
It has a different movement but the same effect as can be seen in rugby where the passer uses the ref as cover / screen.
Dublin's movements have a heavy basketball influence.
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Post by Seoirse Ui Duic on Mar 24, 2017 16:06:10 GMT
I would be in faour of Kealy keeping the slot in goals. He has improved his kickouts no end. Also the other options the Shane Ryan etc need to spend some time with the squad. Maybe a years apprenticeships before getting a go in the league next year if they dont get a go this year. Also the main problem isnt with Kealys actual kick its with the movement outside. Watch the next time a ball is pinged out to Kilkenny or Flynn on the run. It looks like he is miles ahead of his man and running into open space. The man receive the ball is normally moving diagonally across the pitch as opposed to straight up and dowm. Before the ball is kicked a dublin player will block the man marking the target of the kickout. Nothing obvious. Just a second or two. Something to give him the 3 or 4 yards head start. Thats why the kick is always to the wing. The dub is coming out of a crowd where one of his own men can block his marker. Its straight out of a basketball play with screening players etc and its no doubt Jason Sherlock and more importantly one of Irish basketball best coaches Mark Ingle have had a hand in. In basketball everything is about creating that 1 second of space for a shot. Being a non contact sport you have to devise ways of doing it. In some of cluxtons kickouts there are at least 3 stake holders. Cluxton to kick the ball, the receiver, and just as importantly a man to check the run of the receivers marker. 3 people working off a pre ordained plan and executing it. Thats why some of cluxtons kickouts looked so wayward in Tralee the last night. There was no one to check the runner as the man to do the blocking of the kerry player was already probably been held off the ball by his own man so there was no free pass for the dublin receiver to pick up a handy ball. Cluxton was still kicking to the same areas only the timing was off by a few seconds. Where as before the dub would have picked the ball up on the sideline easily enough his run was delayed as there was no one to block his man, thus the ball ran over the line. I dont think we have anything like that sophistication in our kickout strategy. Fully agree. I wouldn't want the keeper to be changed suddenly from Kealy to any of the Shanes. It takes a while for a team to get used to a new goalkeeper. Shane Ryan won't be available until the U21 season is over, which hopefully means another 2 months. Shane Murphy would be available now if Crokes release him, but as you point out ideally he would apprentice at least a year. Bring him in to training at least one session a week in my opinion. Brendan Kealy and Brian Kelly are 31 and 27 so will add a few more years if needed. I would rate Kealy a bit ahead of Kelly at the moment, but in the past Kelly has been ahead of Kealy. That is probably why Eamon alternates, just to pick the goalie on form and to keep both fresh and on their toes. I'm not having a go at either goalie, but they are not as good as Cluxton, Clarke or Morgan. I believe Shane Ryan could be. As you point out as well we are very static during kickouts. Dublin and Mayo and Tyrone are in constant motion during kickouts giving their goalies more options. It also serves as decoy runners. As you pointed out as well Cluxton rarely goes straight at the middle with his kicks, but usually goes to the wings. Ingle and Sherlock have worked a lot with Dublin on this and it is indeed straight of the basketball pitch. I wouldn't say that Dublin obstruct the other players getting to the ball, but they cleverly place themselves in front of their marker blocking the view to identify where the ball is going. It also depends on Dublin players being very confident that Cluxton will place the ball where they want it. Dublin also had some rugby coaches in I believe and some of their codes obviously come from that. Dublin use set plays and codes just like in rugby, but I'm convinced Kerry do something similar. It is common in rugby and basketball to practice certain plays and both Kerry and Dublin are obviously doing this. I'm also convinced that Dublin use a code system for Cluxton, though not a verbal one. Like in other sports they are too easily cracked and then work against you. It's a simple as tipping your cap on the left or the right, brush the shoulder once or twice or the other shoulder. At the same time the other players will run dummy or decoy runs making sure that the code can't be cracked, create space for the receiver and to start a move. Once the player secures the ball it should be clear where the ball goes and Dublin do that excellently. They have two scenarios for each kickout: If the player wins the ball the players doing the running will continue their run in a certain direction so that the ball winner knows where to pass the ball is and knows exactly where all players are. The same when the ball is not won the players know exactly where they need to be to to immediately set up their defensive structure. There is no panic and no room for panic. It's a system and Dublin have this practiced to the core. You can see that Dublin sometimes are outfoxed, but they don't panic. They keep believing in that system and keep playing it. It is their biggest strength and their biggest weakness in my opinion.
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Jigz84
Fanatical Member
Posts: 2,017
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Post by Jigz84 on Mar 24, 2017 16:12:20 GMT
Dublin are extremely well drilled and coached in all aspects. Sadly, Kerry are not which has been proven time and time again.
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Post by royalkerryfan on Mar 24, 2017 18:26:16 GMT
Dublin are extremely well drilled and coached in all aspects. Sadly, Kerry are not which has been proven time and time again. Sorry this is just wrong, Kerry are well coached and we'll drilled but Dublin are just a different class at the minute. Did EF kick away that free on Sat?
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Post by Seoirse Ui Duic on Mar 24, 2017 18:33:21 GMT
Dublin are extremely well drilled and coached in all aspects. Sadly, Kerry are not which has been proven time and time again. Sorry this is just wrong, Kerry are well coached and we'll drilled but Dublin are just a different class at the minute. Did EF kick away that free on Sat? We kicked away two points. We were two points up going into injury time and went long with both kick outs. As opposed to Crokes the day before who went short and kept playing keep ball for 2 minutes. It's all we should have done. To blame the equaliser on Murphy is wrong. We gave away two points and that free was just one of them. Paul kicked a 50/50 ball and the Kerry players were just ball watching. Dublin were very quick to react both times and didn't panic. Just kept playing away as they had done all match. We have to stop thinking we have won the game in injury time when we are 2 points up.
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