|
Post by Annascaultilidie on Aug 10, 2016 11:52:19 GMT
Ultimately the success or failure of Donaghy at full forward depends totally on the quality of the ball coming in, which all too often is dismal. Are the skill levels on this Kerry team up to the standards required? Is it a preconceived notion that all Kerry teams are skillful? Perhaps we think this bunch are better then they actually are in that regards.. No doubting fellas like the Gooch, Geaney and James O'D in the skill stakes but after that I am struggling. It's not just good ball in... we need a corner forward working in tandem with Donaghy. Lethal with good ball; dangerous still with poor ball.
|
|
|
Post by veteran on Aug 10, 2016 11:54:15 GMT
Ultimately the success or failure of Donaghy at full forward depends totally on the quality of the ball coming in, which all too often is dismal. Are the skill levels on this Kerry team up to the standards required? Is it a preconceived notion that all Kerry teams are skillful? Perhaps we think this bunch are better then they actually are in that regards.. No doubting fellas like the Gooch, Geaney and James O'D in the skill stakes but after that I am struggling. The type of ball going into KD is important of course but I would settle for any type of ball if our forwards, particularly our corner forwards, would be less dozy and more alive to the breaking ball from him. If he does not collect it himself, and he collects a lot of them, it usually breaks and if we could snap up even one in two of those we could create havoc.
|
|
kerryexile
Fanatical Member
Whether you believe that you can, or that you can't, you are right anyway.
Posts: 1,129
|
Post by kerryexile on Aug 10, 2016 12:23:44 GMT
Donaghy should always be breaking more ball than he holds. No defence can deal with good forwards getting looses ball on the 14. Even the goal that Donegal got against Dublin – once the ball was picked up there was nothing they could do to stop it. Also the quality of ball in doesn’t have to be as good if all he has to do is get a fist to it. It does beg the question is there a role for Donaghy – Geaney could do that and contribute a lot more than Donaghy in low ball situations.
Last year the other forwards made no effort to pick up breaking ball – I wonder if it was because, as we found out later, Cian O’Neill was in charge of the forwards.
|
|
|
Post by rockie36 on Aug 10, 2016 13:01:27 GMT
In my opinion Kieran has to start in the full forward line....with the aerial threat of himself and Paul it would put Dublin on the back foot. I wouldn't kick everything in high but mix it...and have James to do the mopping up and finishing. You could alternate James and Darran periodically to keep them thinking....if James has to follow his man up the field then Darran switches into the corner...but at all times keep the two big guys in there. I am confident that the Dublin supporters and management are not that bothered by us...which is a great place to be....they will line up as usual....sure that the usual performance will do. Fenton and Connolly have to get the full on man to man treatment...no possession won easy and never having time on the ball...(hammer these hammers. Compared to last years final....there are far fewer questions I think....guys will not get their places on past performances....this is about your FORM right now...
|
|
|
Post by ballynamona on Aug 10, 2016 13:50:27 GMT
Ultimately the success or failure of Donaghy at full forward depends totally on the quality of the ball coming in, which all too often is dismal. Are the skill levels on this Kerry team up to the standards required? Is it a preconceived notion that all Kerry teams are skillful? Perhaps we think this bunch are better then they actually are in that regards.. No doubting fellas like the Gooch, Geaney and James O'D in the skill stakes but after that I am struggling. The type of ball going into KD is important of course but I would settle for any type of ball if our forwards, particularly our corner forwards, would be less dozy and more alive to the breaking ball from him. If he does not collect it himself, and he collects a lot of them, it usually breaks and if we could snap up even one in two of those we could create havoc. Geaney is more alive to Donaghy's potential than others.
|
|
|
Post by wideball on Aug 10, 2016 13:51:02 GMT
Don't understand the appeal for starting Donaghy, we would be much better off with a hole in front of the Dublin goal and have James, Darren and Stephen o Brien running hard into it. Best way to put the full back line under pressure imo instead of a hail mary ball on Donaghy's head and hoping for a miracle But how do you make a hole in front of the Dublin goal? That link is for the 2013 all ireland semi. At 2:51 Gooch gets the ball and puts a low ball into donnacha who runs away from the dublin goal, quick offload to james who runs into the space donnacha vacated and buries it. At 11:35 Maher runs at the dublin goal, James runs away from goal and Darren runs into the space James just left and should have goaled. Its self less, smart movement that our current fowards are well capable of. Compare this to when Donaghy is on the field. At 20:27 eoin brosnan gathers a ball in the middle of the field and just puts it in the sky hoping for a miracle. Darren does something similar at 21:24. Dublin clear both times. 15 v 15 is the way to go and push up on the kick out.
|
|
|
Post by Annascaultilidie on Aug 10, 2016 14:03:47 GMT
But how do you make a hole in front of the Dublin goal? That link is for the 2013 all ireland semi. At 2:51 Gooch gets the ball and puts a low ball into donnacha who runs away from the dublin goal, quick offload to james who runs into the space donnacha vacated and buries it. At 11:35 Maher runs at the dublin goal, James runs away from goal and Darren runs into the space James just left and should have goaled. Its self less, smart movement that our current fowards are well capable of. Compare this to when Donaghy is on the field. At 20:27 eoin brosnan gathers a ball in the middle of the field and just puts it in the sky hoping for a miracle. Darren does something similar at 21:24. Dublin clear both times. 15 v 15 is the way to go and push up on the kick out. Fair enough (particularly on the good pieces of play --- although is the Gooch as that level today?) but that was Dublin's defence pre-Donegal 2014... with Rory O'Carroll... with the long balls pure desperation when the game was up to a subbed on (and out of form??) Donaghy... also how much time was spent in training on making that space in the first half... what if time and thought was put into how Kerry would play with Donaghy starting? I am certainly no expert on forward play (let alone football in general) but it strikes me that we need to try something different because what we have been trying hasn't worked.
|
|
|
Post by buck02 on Aug 10, 2016 14:53:41 GMT
Surprised that some here think that if Cian Sullivan drops in as sweeper than will mean whoever our centre forward is will be free! Do ye think Dublin are that naive? Check out this link www.irishtimes.com/sport/gaelic-games/gaelic-football/gaa-statistics-cian-o-sullivan-can-sweep-mark-and-cover-that-fullback-void-1.2744293Also, Dublin management have been thinking about this game since the start of the year - they are likely to have a few aces up their sleeves that we havnt seen yet this year too. I doubt they'll just go out and do the 'usual' as has also been suggested by some here. In 2013, my memory of it was that once Donaghy came on, Flynn dropped in and doubled up on him. Kerry were kicking the ball in from way too far out in the 2nd half cos the players were probably too tired to work it close enough to get good ball into Donaghy.
|
|
fitz
Fanatical Member
Red sky at night get off my land
Posts: 1,719
|
Post by fitz on Aug 10, 2016 15:11:11 GMT
Surprised that some here think that if Cian Sullivan drops in as sweeper than will mean whoever our centre forward is will be free! Do ye think Dublin are that naive? Check out this link www.irishtimes.com/sport/gaelic-games/gaelic-football/gaa-statistics-cian-o-sullivan-can-sweep-mark-and-cover-that-fullback-void-1.2744293Also, Dublin management have been thinking about this game since the start of the year - they are likely to have a few aces up their sleeves that we havnt seen yet this year too. I doubt they'll just go out and do the 'usual' as has also been suggested by some here. In 2013, my memory of it was that once Donaghy came on, Flynn dropped in and doubled up on him. Kerry were kicking the ball in from way too far out in the 2nd half cos the players were probably too tired to work it close enough to get good ball into Donaghy. Donaghy was cobbled together in 2013, a season plagued by injury. He is a much much more menacing animal now, to specifically then, despite the extra 3 years in age.You're right regarding the ball in though, panic stuff and Rory just made every efffort to start a row with him once he was outside the square (which in line with Darragh's article today, all good teams would do the same) Jaysis Darragh let rip in this week's edition in the Irish Times and shamelessly re-enforced the tareting of Connolly again, whilst at the same time throwing haymakers at Sean Cavanagh and Mickey Harte. Like it or not - it's hard to fault the accuracy of the article in its entirety regarding every person mentioned. Obviously, admittedly, I did enjoy it.
|
|
|
Post by Annascaultilidie on Aug 10, 2016 16:35:59 GMT
Not that we should expend too much time riling up the Dubs...
|
|
|
Post by kerrygold on Aug 10, 2016 16:55:36 GMT
Without stating the obvious, but Kerry will have to be better than Dublin to win on the day. As tall orders go, that is a four story one..........................!!!
|
|
fitz
Fanatical Member
Red sky at night get off my land
Posts: 1,719
|
Post by fitz on Aug 10, 2016 19:09:39 GMT
Not that we should expend too much time riling up the Dubs... A great point and image - undoubtedly (the point not the image) a big factor in the supine surrender last September. Bakc to the swimming, Le Clos got so consumed he was shadow boxing in fromt of Phelps in the semis - net result: run (swam rather) out of silver and bronze too in the final. Look how much time we've been at it here on the forum. Phelps size 14 feet, Sheehand would be under pressure for the frees surely
|
|
|
Post by Mickmack on Aug 10, 2016 20:22:52 GMT
This was the 2011 Dublin team.
Its the new guys like Fenton, McMahon, Kilkenny, Small etc that are keeping them on top now.
Kerry will have to start matching them in the area of bringing on younger lads or we will feel further behind them
DUBLIN:
1 Stephen Cluxton 2 Michael Fitzsimons 3 Rory O'Carroll Booked 23' 4 Cian O'Sullivan Booked 61' 5 James McCarthy Substituted off 46' 6 Ger Brennan Booked 44' 7 Kevin Nolan 8 Denis Bastick Substituted off 63' 9 Michael Darragh MacAuley 10 Paul Flynn Substituted off 51' Booked 12' 11 Barry Cahill Substituted off 57' 12 Bryan Cullen (Captain) 13 Alan Brogan 14 Diarmuid Connolly 15 Bernard Brogan Substitutes: 20 Eoghan O'Gara Substituted in 57' 21 Philip McMahon Substituted in 46' 24 Kevin McManamon Substituted in 51' Booked 56' 25 Eamonn Fennell Substituted in 63' Manager: Pat Gilroy
|
|
|
Post by thebluepanther on Aug 10, 2016 21:02:38 GMT
I think that Swimming picture epitomises a lot that he been said over the last few pages. Everything that is being written is about stopping Dublin . Ye are even naming which of your forwards should be attached to a Dublin defender. Ye are talking about going 15 on 15 . There is not a hope in this world EF will go 15 on 15. The question will he push up on Dublin Kickouts and thrust his midfield to win the breaking ball. Or will he try a Mayo tactic last year of allowing us the kickout and frustrating us up the field with greater numbers.
|
|
Hicser
Senior Member
Posts: 387
|
Post by Hicser on Aug 10, 2016 23:19:16 GMT
It's about the management being able to get the individual performances out of the players, if EF can do that we will win,
|
|
thepope
Fanatical Member
Posts: 1,278
|
Post by thepope on Aug 10, 2016 23:22:43 GMT
Could Kelly or Kealy have a spare ball near the bloody goals for the whole game? Small things matter.
Have picked about 4 teams in my head so far but don't see any of them beating Dublin. Hope I'm wrong.
|
|
|
Post by ciarrai16 on Aug 11, 2016 8:15:09 GMT
I think that Swimming picture epitomises a lot that he been said over the last few pages. Everything that is being written is about stopping Dublin . Ye are even naming which of your forwards should be attached to a Dublin defender. Ye are talking about going 15 on 15 . There is not a hope in this world EF will go 15 on 15. The question will he push up on Dublin Kickouts and thrust his midfield to win the breaking ball. Or will he try a Mayo tactic last year of allowing us the kickout and frustrating us up the field with greater numbers. In the drawn game when Mayo were 7 points down, they pushed up on cluxton's kickouts and he was helpless. Almost lost the game for Dublin. It's essential to put him under pressure.
|
|
|
Post by thebluepanther on Aug 11, 2016 9:17:45 GMT
In the drawn game when Mayo were 7 points down, they pushed up on cluxton's kickouts and he was helpless. Almost lost the game for Dublin. It's essential to put him under pressure.
Yet in the replay they conceded the kickout and got a 4 point lead in the second half, which suggested the plan also had merits. In 2015 final most people were convinced that pushing up on Cluxton's kickouts were the only way to beat Dublin in the belief that Kerry would win midfield . We actually attacked the Kerry kickout. I guess the question is are Kerry better than last year and are Dublin weakened or strengthened by Jack mc C and RoC absence , John small and David Byrne give us different options in attack and defence . For me if Kerry win midfield ye will cause us a lot of problems , but we still might win the game. If we win Midfield I see only one outcome.
|
|
|
Post by skybluezone on Aug 11, 2016 14:23:19 GMT
I think that Swimming picture epitomises a lot that he been said over the last few pages. Everything that is being written is about stopping Dublin . Ye are even naming which of your forwards should be attached to a Dublin defender. Ye are talking about going 15 on 15 . There is not a hope in this world EF will go 15 on 15. The question will he push up on Dublin Kickouts and thrust his midfield to win the breaking ball. Or will he try a Mayo tactic last year of allowing us the kickout and frustrating us up the field with greater numbers. In the drawn game when Mayo were 7 points down, they pushed up on cluxton's kickouts and he was helpless. Almost lost the game for Dublin. It's essential to put him under pressure. A little acknowledged fact is that in the drawn game when Dublin were 7 points up with 10 to play they had no midfielders on the pitch for those last 10. Fenton, Macauley and Bastick were all off for one reason or another. So when Mayo pushed up it had to be hail Mary stuff from Cluxton. Pushing up is an option but there is more to it than that.
|
|
|
Post by givehimaball on Aug 11, 2016 14:43:29 GMT
|
|
fitz
Fanatical Member
Red sky at night get off my land
Posts: 1,719
|
Post by fitz on Aug 11, 2016 15:13:33 GMT
It's about the management being able to get the individual performances out of the players, if EF can do that we will win, Fitzmaurice for sure must foster the frame of mind for the players to play optimally, on a foundation of excellent training, conditioning, management, commmunication, overall preparation. That said the players really need to step it up now put up a performance that their lives are dependent upon, that will not fall back to excuses, win or lose.
|
|
Jigz84
Fanatical Member
Posts: 2,017
|
Post by Jigz84 on Aug 11, 2016 15:21:32 GMT
Seeing as neither McQuillan or Coldrick refereed a Quarter Final they must be favourites to referee the Semi-Finals .....
|
|
|
Post by augustafield on Aug 11, 2016 15:47:45 GMT
Great image great message. Could apply to life's journey. But we cannot ignore signals that warn of danger. So much depends on how our team is set up. We all have different ideas of the correct team and must trust that our management will not repeat the previous mistakes against the Dubs. Repeat high ball into Donaghy not good. Dubs backs have him sussed out. Fast quick low ball - easier said than done - but mighty effective when effective. We do have the players but Dubs are the form team and deservedly so but there is no team so good that it can't be beaten. Give our team a video of how they looked at the final whistle last September watching the Dubs raise Sam aloft to remind them of the hurt they felt and hopefully they'll get stuck in to reverse the result. Our boys have as many bones in their arse as the Dubs.
|
|
|
Post by Annascaultilidie on Aug 11, 2016 15:51:57 GMT
Seeing as neither McQuillan or Coldrick refereed a Quarter Final they must be favourites to referee the Semi-Finals ..... I thought Coldrick was excellent at reffing the tackle in thee Ulster Final and didn't affect the result in last year's final.
|
|
kot
Fanatical Member
Posts: 1,131
|
Post by kot on Aug 11, 2016 15:56:55 GMT
Seeing as neither McQuillan or Coldrick refereed a Quarter Final they must be favourites to referee the Semi-Finals ..... If the former is reffing I swear to god I will stage a sit down protest in the middle of the pitch at the throw in!
|
|
|
Post by jackiel on Aug 11, 2016 16:07:11 GMT
Seeing as neither McQuillan or Coldrick refereed a Quarter Final they must be favourites to referee the Semi-Finals ..... Dear God let it be Coldrick, McQuillan hates us. Anyone know of a precedent for refs doing 2 years in a row.
|
|
brigid
Senior Member
Posts: 320
|
Post by brigid on Aug 11, 2016 16:43:56 GMT
The major issue with playing Donaghy full forward V Dublin is that, to date, 2 or 3 backs are competing with him, so more often than not, there is breaking ball. There has been a lot of comment about how fast some of the Kerry forwards are but any of those selected to-date (over the last 2 years) V Dublin did not have the courage AND intelligence to get the breaking ball. A sample example of what to do was given in the Mayo V Tyrone game. When Aidan O’Shea was in full forward, a high dropping ball came in to the verge of the small square. With 2 Tyrone backs beside him, O’Shea broke the ball out and Andy Moran ran into position to get the break. And a simple tap over point. When Paul Galvin rejoined the Kerry panel last year I presumed and hoped that he might influence a few of the Kerry panel into getting more breaking ball. But sadly none of them appear to have the necessary requirements, courage and intelligence. Some have one or the other but none appear to have both. But the big question is, can it be coached?
Some of comments are suggesting that players should be selected in positions that they have not filled on a regular basis. Look at the Dublin team. They have a lot of strengths but probably their greatest one is that the players are constantly playing with the same players beside them. They know where the cover is and also know where the support play is coming from Looking back at the Kerry teams of the 70’s and 80’s that simple point was probably their greatest asset. So please no chopping and changing.
|
|
|
Post by Mickmack on Aug 11, 2016 17:00:52 GMT
I find the line by certain scribes in the media about thuggery depressing. It's now got to the stage that complaining about it is nearly the bigger sin.
Talk about a race to the bottom. Was ef entitled to complain about mcgees attempt to break Alan fitzgeralds fingers...
|
|
superstar
Junior Member
A follower of both football and hurling
Posts: 48
|
Post by superstar on Aug 11, 2016 17:18:21 GMT
How many Kerry players would be good enough to make the Dublin team?
|
|
|
Post by Annascaultilidie on Aug 11, 2016 17:49:57 GMT
How many Kerry players would be good enough to make the Dublin team? Without asking me who they are replacing: Enright, Crowley (maybe with the absentees), an on top-of-form Moran, Geaney, O'Donoghue.
|
|