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Post by yourholiness on Aug 30, 2016 20:06:31 GMT
A question for the Dubs lads on here... How would you feel if you had lost by 2, with a ref from Cork working in Killarney or Tralee? And the above decisions had gone the other way? No doubt Dublin are a class bunch of footballers, all we are looking for is a fair roll of the dice...... i don't think Gough favoured Dublin . The Crowley tackle was clearly a foul but I think in ways it's a push to suggest, given the frantic pace of the game that he favoured Dublin in a partisan way on that call. He was blindsided and that's the sole reason he didn't give it. Unfortunate but such incidents are ten a penny. Too much being made of him working in the capital . As a Dublin supporter I feel there have been times we should've been awarded calls and an example would be the denied penalty in the 2011 final when the ball was clearly fouled. It didn't have a bearing on the result but easily could have . I think the optics aren't great and I daresay as a Kerry man you would rather a cork man didn't ref you in big matches in croke park much the same as my feelings regarding a Meath man taking charge.
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Post by clarinman on Aug 30, 2016 20:22:28 GMT
A question for the Dubs lads on here... How would you feel if you had lost by 2, with a ref from Cork working in Killarney or Tralee? And the above decisions had gone the other way? No doubt Dublin are a class bunch of footballers, all we are looking for is a fair roll of the dice...... i don't think Gough favoured Dublin . The Crowley tackle was clearly a foul but I think in ways it's a push to suggest, given the frantic pace of the game that he favoured Dublin in a partisan way on that call. He was blindsided and that's the sole reason he didn't give it. Unfortunate but such incidents are ten a penny. Too much being made of him working in the capital . As a Dublin supporter I feel there have been times we should've been awarded calls and an example would be the denied penalty in the 2011 final when the ball was clearly fouled. It didn't have a bearing on the result but easily could have . I think the optics aren't great and I daresay as a Kerry man you would rather a cork man didn't ref you in big matches in croke park much the same as my feelings regarding a Meath man taking charge. Can anyone explain why the umpire was overruled by Gough for the 45? The umpire was 5 metres away and waved wide. He was overruled by Gough who was at least 25 metres away and could not have had a clear view. Also Kerry were denied a clearer 45 on the previous play from Murphy's shot. Another possible 2-point turnaround.
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Post by kerrygold on Aug 30, 2016 20:47:30 GMT
i don't think Gough favoured Dublin . The Crowley tackle was clearly a foul but I think in ways it's a push to suggest, given the frantic pace of the game that he favoured Dublin in a partisan way on that call. He was blindsided and that's the sole reason he didn't give it. Unfortunate but such incidents are ten a penny. Too much being made of him working in the capital . As a Dublin supporter I feel there have been times we should've been awarded calls and an example would be the denied penalty in the 2011 final when the ball was clearly fouled. It didn't have a bearing on the result but easily could have . I think the optics aren't great and I daresay as a Kerry man you would rather a cork man didn't ref you in big matches in croke park much the same as my feelings regarding a Meath man taking charge. Can anyone explain why the umpire was overruled by Gough for the 45? The umpire was 5 metres away and waved wide. He was overruled by Gough who was at least 25 metres away and could not have had a clear view. Also Kerry were denied a clearer 45 on the previous play from Murphy's shot. Another possible 2-point turnaround. Has anyone still got the matchday programme, someone said to me the four umpires were all Goughs? Uncle Joe was his linesman on that side of the field for the Crowley takeout.
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Post by Mickmack on Aug 30, 2016 21:11:03 GMT
i don't think Gough favoured Dublin . The Crowley tackle was clearly a foul but I think in ways it's a push to suggest, given the frantic pace of the game that he favoured Dublin in a partisan way on that call. He was blindsided and that's the sole reason he didn't give it. Unfortunate but such incidents are ten a penny. Too much being made of him working in the capital . As a Dublin supporter I feel there have been times we should've been awarded calls and an example would be the denied penalty in the 2011 final when the ball was clearly fouled. It didn't have a bearing on the result but easily could have . I think the optics aren't great and I daresay as a Kerry man you would rather a cork man didn't ref you in big matches in croke park much the same as my feelings regarding a Meath man taking charge. C an anyone explain why the umpire was overruled by Gough for the 45? The umpire was 5 metres away and waved wide. He was overruled by Gough who was at least 25 metres away and could not have had a clear view. Also Kerry were denied a clearer 45 on the previous play from Murphy's shot. Another possible 2-point turnaround. I cant explain it but McMenamin was the Dublin player making the claims for the 45
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Post by greengold35 on Aug 30, 2016 21:14:10 GMT
Can anyone explain why the umpire was overruled by Gough for the 45? The umpire was 5 metres away and waved wide. He was overruled by Gough who was at least 25 metres away and could not have had a clear view. Also Kerry were denied a clearer 45 on the previous play from Murphy's shot. Another possible 2-point turnaround. Has anyone still got the matchday programme, someone said to me the four umpires were all Goughs? Uncle Joe was his linesman on that side of the field for the Crowley takeout. Yes, all Goughs- Dean, Eugene, Stephen & Terry.
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pillar
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Post by pillar on Aug 30, 2016 21:18:03 GMT
The GAA did themselves no favours appointing David Gough.Living in Dublin and being a member of a GAA club he was the wrong choice cos no matter how he reffed it he was going to be accused of favouring Dublin cos he lived there or Kerry cos he's from Meath.What if a member of a Killarney club who was from Limerick was asked to ref a Cork Kerry Munster final.The Cork lads would be up in arms.There is enough pressure on a ref beside putting undue pressure on him P.S..Mc Manamon tackle was a free 100%
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Post by Ard Mhacha on Aug 30, 2016 21:20:51 GMT
Enjoyable game. Would have liked to see them do battle again. Hard on any team to lose that.
Half time came at the wrong time for Kerry. They had Dublin under the cosh. Had things materialised 5 minutes earlier, Kerry could have been further ahead at the break, and that could have been telling in the end.
Geaney coming off reminded me of McGeeney trudging off in the Tyrone 05 semi.
Thought Gough did fairly well, bar a few calls. But no ref gets 100% of calls correct. The more obvious calls were highlighted more afterwards, because the game was so tight, and really one call could (and possibly did) have decided the game.
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Post by thebluepanther on Aug 30, 2016 22:01:17 GMT
A question for the Dubs lads on here... How would you feel if you had lost by 2, with a ref from Cork working in Killarney or Tralee? And the above decisions had gone the other way? No doubt Dublin are a class bunch of footballers, all we are looking for is a fair roll of the dice...... Any team that loses a close game is going feel hard done by, I would definetly be agrieved by the Crowely decision if it was the other way, Now if Gough had the luxury of a few replays and then still said nothing happened then yes I would be questioning him, but the truth is he is one of the best refs in the country, who had to make a split decision on what looked a shoulder at the time. and I honestly think he would be more concerned about his reputation as a ref and wanting to get as many decisions right, i dont think appeasing the Dubs is going to come into it. Now I'd agree , the fact he lives in Dublin could have barred him from reffing this match. But a lot of people work and live in the capital, it not like a rural town.
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diego
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Post by diego on Aug 30, 2016 22:08:40 GMT
For what it's worth, I don't think David Gough is a crooked referee (although I might have voiced a sentiment to the contrary at about 5.02pm on Sunday evening).
On the 45 awarded in error, it had to be guesswork. He couldn't have seen a touch on the ball by AO'M, as there was none. He must have been fooled by the reaction of McManamon who gave a decent impression of a man who had just been the victim of a great injustice. Gough computes the situation in his head (Kevin is such a nice lad and wouldn't try to fool me + it looked like there might have been a touch = probably on balance a 45).
For the Crowley situation you have to assume his vision was blocked in the split second the contact occurred. From looking back afterwards it looks like Philly McMahon might have run across his line of sight. In this case, the linesman on the Hogan Stand side should have been in his ear (they are mic'd up are they not?) saying "Goughie, you've dropped a bollock there mate" or words to that effect. His sideline colleague let him down on this one. Was it definitely McQuillan on that side in the 2nd half?
Anyway, a pity such a great game was overshadowed at least in some part by this unfortunate finale. Dublin did arguably deserve the win over the course of the 70 mins, but the manner of the ending leaves a sour taste.
On the Aidan v Philly collision that was heard around the world, I think Aidan sized up Philly, briefly took in to account the lack of time served for previous crimes against the sport (eye gouging, trash talking, general scumbag activity) and meted out a bit of vigilante style justice. Which is fair enough really. It even looked like a fair shoulder from where I was, and the ref does not get to see replays that show it marginally missed the textbook definition of the shoulder charge.
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Post by ddtinexile on Aug 30, 2016 22:19:36 GMT
Yea they were all Goughs. The father and four sons. I do know the grandfather worked in Croke Park and I bet the rest of them worked there too. Same as last year with coldricks moth been chief steward in Croker. The mindset can't be right ....make a decision that will cost your neighbour or your pupils pain. No way ....can't be right having Dublin based refs refin Dublin games. I know several Kerry people who did not travel to the game because of Goughs appointment.
But H Q make the decisions with an eye on the takings. It's in the Gaa interest to keep Dublin at the top , guaranteed 80 thousand in the gates..
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Aug 30, 2016 22:24:05 GMT
A question for the Dubs lads on here... How would you feel if you had lost by 2, with a ref from Cork working in Killarney or Tralee? And the above decisions had gone the other way? No doubt Dublin are a class bunch of footballers, all we are looking for is a fair roll of the dice...... Any team that loses a close game is going feel hard done by, I would definetly be agrieved by the Crowely decision if it was the other way, Now if Gough had the luxury of a few replays and then still said nothing happened then yes I would be questioning him, but the truth is he is one of the best refs in the country, who had to make a split decision on what looked a shoulder at the time. and I honestly think he would be more concerned about his reputation as a ref and wanting to get as many decisions right, i dont think appeasing the Dubs is going to come into it. Now I'd agree , the fact he lives in Dublin could have barred him from reffing this match. But a lot of people work and live in the capital, it not like a rural town. But this is the point, he should have been barred from taking the game. Yes a lot of people live in Dublin but very easy to find people who don't either. As you say refs are human and on a sub conscious level who is to say his previous involvement with Dublin gaa would not impact a marginal decision. In relation to the previous analogy of a cork Ref working & living in Kerry, if you were to add in that this ref was also involved in coaching in the county. This conflict was highlighted before the game also so it is not just a case of sour grapes.
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Post by thebluepanther on Aug 30, 2016 22:58:08 GMT
But this is the point, he should have been barred from taking the game. Yes a lot of people live in Dublin but very easy to find people who don't either. As you say refs are human and on a sub conscious level who is to say his previous involvement with Dublin gaa would not impact a marginal decision. In relation to the previous analogy of a cork Ref working & living in Kerry, if you were to add in that this ref was also involved in coaching in the county. This conflict was highlighted before the game also so it is not just a case of sour grapes. I can't answer that and I'd probably ask the same questions if it was the other way round. If i watch the game back from a Kerry point of view after losing, the 45 and Crowley incident are going to anger me. Murphy hand ball I would of felt was harsh. Im sure one or two more incidents would have had me asking questions. But If i watch it back from Dublin point of view if we had of lost , AoM incident would bother me, pulling Johnny Cooper up for not being far enough away from Cluxton's kickout and giving an easy free in when a lot of refs would of let it go, would have annoyed me. James mc Carthy free against him in firsthalf after getting the ball which resulted in a handy free in for Kerry half would have angered me. Donaghy not getting punished for grabbing Johnny by the throat would have angered me. I understand the refs residence being an issue, but it seems as the days go by all his decisions against Kerry are now under the microscope and it's conviently forgotten that we had calls go against us also. It was a frantic game and I really think Gough wanted to let the game flow as much as possible. You would need eyes in the back of your head to see the amount of pulling and blocking off the ball, by players. I know that's of little consolation , but that's the way i see it.
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Post by wayupnorth on Aug 30, 2016 23:15:20 GMT
Yea they were all Goughs. The father and four sons. I do know the grandfather worked in Croke Park and I bet the rest of them worked there too. Same as last year with coldricks moth been chief steward in Croker. The mindset can't be right ....make a decision that will cost your neighbour or your pupils pain. No way ....can't be right having Dublin based refs refin Dublin games. I know several Kerry people who did not travel to the game because of Goughs appointment. But H Q make the decisions with an eye on the takings. It's in the Gaa interest to keep Dublin at the top , guaranteed 80 thousand in the gates.. That's really taking the conspiracy thing a bit too far. Do you really think they were sitting around at HQ saying "let's give the game to Gough because he'll swing the marginal decisions inDublin's favour and we'll get a full house the next time out". Two problems with that: One - everyone expected Dublin to blow us off the field so there weren't going to be any marginal calls. Two- the next day out is the Final which is ALWAYS a sell out. We can all agree that he got that particular call wrong but any fair minded Kerry supporter will feel that on the balance of play the better team probably won (even if some of us say it through gritted teeth). Eamonn's dignified respinse is best echoing another North Kerry great Garry Mc Mahon "When we lose there's no excuse. We pack up our things and go"
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Post by wayupnorth on Aug 30, 2016 23:18:17 GMT
BUT. HQ should learn from this and not put a ref who lives, works and coaches inDublin in this no-win position ever again. There were two semis and he could have been given the other one.
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Post by colinsworth1 on Aug 31, 2016 3:02:22 GMT
Any day now someone with more time than me will Analyse carefully the 22 frees given against Kerry And see if they were legit yes or no answers will be possible I understand the post game video analysis is for purely academic at this point but worth doing nonetheless. As I read many articles over the past two days the list of injustices mentioned against Kerry is growing rapidly and most are in agreement even Mike Quirke in today's examiner even though he want to rationalize the result by saying the better team won end of. I don't have a problem with the better team winning But under different more accurate refereeing Kerry would have won on Sundsy whether they were the better team or not . List of Dubious calls and non calls (not complete)
The Hit on Crowleys The phantom 45 The 45 That was real but not given The Holding on Camera by McMahon 14 yards out Not given. Proven on camera once but happened multiple times Connolly was getting these but Star wasn't The 4 frees against Kerry for handling on the ground ? Very iffy Clearly no contact in any of the 4. The two fouls on the two jump balls in first half Non calls The phantom foul against Moran that had him bewildered The phantom fouls against star that should have gone the other way The call back when advantage rule would have put Kerry player in on goal The simultaneous punch and kick on Donnacha Non call despite being on national TV at least shown on Gaago All these items without much scrutiny The best team arguably won but that shouldn't squash all post game analyses on the cold facts
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Clogher
Full Member
Just waiting
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Post by Clogher on Aug 31, 2016 6:33:43 GMT
For what it's worth, I don't think David Gough is a crooked referee (although I might have voiced a sentiment to the contrary at about 5.02pm on Sunday evening). On the 45 awarded in error, it had to be guesswork. He couldn't have seen a touch on the ball by AO'M, as there was none. He must have been fooled by the reaction of McManamon who gave a decent impression of a man who had just been the victim of a great injustice. Gough computes the situation in his head (Kevin is such a nice lad and wouldn't try to fool me + it looked like there might have been a touch = probably on balance a 45). For the Crowley situation you have to assume his vision was blocked in the split second the contact occurred. From looking back afterwards it looks like Philly McMahon might have run across his line of sight. In this case, the linesman on the Hogan Stand side should have been in his ear (they are mic'd up are they not?) saying "Goughie, you've dropped a bollock there mate" or words to that effect. His sideline colleague let him down on this one. Was it definitely McQuillan on that side in the 2nd half? Anyway, a pity such a great game was overshadowed at least in some part by this unfortunate finale. Dublin did arguably deserve the win over the course of the 70 mins, but the manner of the ending leaves a sour taste. On the Aidan v Philly collision that was heard around the world, I think Aidan sized up Philly, briefly took in to account the lack of time served for previous crimes against the sport (eye gouging, trash talking, general scumbag activity) and meted out a bit of vigilante style justice. Which is fair enough really. It even looked like a fair shoulder from where I was, and the ref does not get to see replays that show it marginally missed the textbook definition of the shoulder charge. I agree that because of the association with St judes Gough was too favourably disposed to Kevin Mac and this attitude tipped the scale in deciding to award a totally unmerited 45 based on his mate's word only despite the fact based decision of his umpire. This incident alone is more than ample proof that Gough was inappropriate choice for this match. The state of Crowley post the challenge was a clear indication of the type of challenge it was, more evidence than he had had for the earlier decision but he chose again in favour of Kevin. Gough should not have been appointed AND/OR being aware of his connection to a player through the club he himself should haved declined the game. Yes he would have missed on the honour (which must be tarnished for him by now in light of these issues). We will never know if these calls would have changed the outcome. We do know he was not a good appointment. A dangerous precedent now for Gough, he awards prime scorable 45s based solely of the word of a protesting player. What happens the next time he is fixing his hair and the ball goes over the end line while his attention is diverted.... Aidan and Philly? That was near me and I thought it was fair in real time. Replays of it do raise some questions but along the lines of your characterisation of it, I do not have any sympathy for mcmahon. Who could?
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Post by jackeensabhog on Aug 31, 2016 8:27:47 GMT
Maybe we can get Cormac Reilly for the next Kerry v Dub clash? My mistake, he's from Meath as well and that wouldn't sit well with either set of fans.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Aug 31, 2016 8:40:31 GMT
Maybe we can get Cormac Reilly for the next Kerry v Dub clash? My mistake, he's from Meath as well and that wouldn't sit well with either set of fans. Irrelevant. Do you really not get the issue?
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Post by jackeensabhog on Aug 31, 2016 9:15:17 GMT
Maybe we can get Cormac Reilly for the next Kerry v Dub clash? My mistake, he's from Meath as well and that wouldn't sit well with either set of fans. Irrelevant. Do you really not get the issue? I get the issue alright, but its masquerading as something else. I also think some insinuations here are doing a diservice to the GAA and the professionalism of its referees. IMO a video ref would resolve much of the issues associated with refering decisions.
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Post by Annascaultilidie on Aug 31, 2016 9:47:39 GMT
I had been staying away with the heartbreak but checked in yesterday and was quite happy with the mood.
Today however I see we have decended into Mayo/Cork CB - style moaning and whingeing.
Pathetic. The best team won. Accept that. Stop looking for excuses and explanations that absolve us of blame.
When I see this * from other counties I want to get sick in my corn flakes.
If our players --- and I don't believe they are --- go along with this narrative something is rotten.
I've said it plenty of times: champions don't let the referee play any role in the result.
Don't bother replying this with ifs and buts...grow up: we lost. Get over it. That's life.
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Post by Mickmack on Aug 31, 2016 10:07:08 GMT
I was wondering where our resident "Uncle Tom" had gone to alright
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Aug 31, 2016 10:17:27 GMT
Irrelevant. Do you really not get the issue? I get the issue alright, but its masquerading as something else. I also think some insinuations here are doing a diservice to the GAA and the professionalism of its referees. IMO a video ref would resolve much of the issues associated with refering decisions. No masquerading on my part, I mentioned this before the game. Gough will ref Kerry again and I have no issue with that. However I would have an issue if he reffed a Kerry Dublin game . The optics alone are awful.
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Post by Mickmack on Aug 31, 2016 10:34:48 GMT
First of all, Congrats and well done to Dublin for rising to the challenge of defending the All Ireland. My biggest hope leading up to the game was that they might have gone a bit soft but if anything they are more driven that last year. The comments by our captain were very ill judged and only served to fan the blue flames.
Dublin are better than us at kicking long range points. They got more of those on Sunday. Dublin didnt leave too many scorres behind them. Kerry did. Colm left two, Morley one and Kerrys close control was found wanting on a few occasions... OBrien lost the ball three times in the second half and JOD had a toe to hand taken off him.
Dublin won the first 25 minutes by 9 to 4 and the second half by 13 to 6. So that spell when we got 2.03 without reply kept gave us a life line but you cant beat Dublin without dominating the game for such a short spell.
I was in Croke Park when Kieran McGeeney was taken off against Tyrone in 2005 and the substitution of PG was in that category. The move was to bring him out to midfield where his fetching and ability to kick long rand points could have won it. EF took on the job when no one wanted it and his only losses have been to an exceptional Dublin team. I dont know if he will stay or go or what but if he does go then his talent and experience shouldn't go untapped.
The Kerry keeper seemed determined to avoid the sort of goal that Kealy conceeded in the league final from the short kickout. The option to go short was there a few times but he didnt take it. Its as if he was told... only go short when its 100% safe. Given that the keeper is in control of the situation, you would wonder why they can go long and have lads foraging for breaking ball.
I felt that we had to get two goals more than Dublin to have a chance. We did that but we must get better at the points.
I dont think Gough cost Kerry this game. Dublin had more good footballers in the 42 players used.
I have gone on before about how 6 subs confers a big advantage to the strongest panel.. Given that all these subs are used in the second half with 30 seconds added for each sub, the second half is now lasting 41 or 42 minutes and this given adequate time for the stronger subs to press home their advantage.
It might be 2018 or 2019 before we take Dublin but take them we will.
This is the greatest Dublin team i have seen. But the situation with the refs is taking from them and casts a shadow. McQuillan got all their games there for a while and the last two meetings with Kerry had refs with strong Dublin connections. As Ciarrai Abu says.... there are plenty of refs with no connection to Dublin that could ref Kerry v Dublin. Its not healthy and should be changed.
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kot
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Post by kot on Aug 31, 2016 10:45:09 GMT
But this is the point, he should have been barred from taking the game. Yes a lot of people live in Dublin but very easy to find people who don't either. As you say refs are human and on a sub conscious level who is to say his previous involvement with Dublin gaa would not impact a marginal decision. In relation to the previous analogy of a cork Ref working & living in Kerry, if you were to add in that this ref was also involved in coaching in the county. This conflict was highlighted before the game also so it is not just a case of sour grapes. I can't answer that and I'd probably ask the same questions if it was the other way round. If i watch the game back from a Kerry point of view after losing, the 45 and Crowley incident are going to anger me. Murphy hand ball I would of felt was harsh. Im sure one or two more incidents would have had me asking questions. But If i watch it back from Dublin point of view if we had of lost , AoM incident would bother me, pulling Johnny Cooper up for not being far enough away from Cluxton's kickout and giving an easy free in when a lot of refs would of let it go, would have annoyed me. James mc Carthy free against him in firsthalf after getting the ball which resulted in a handy free in for Kerry half would have angered me. Donaghy not getting punished for grabbing Johnny by the throat would have angered me. I understand the refs residence being an issue, but it seems as the days go by all his decisions against Kerry are now under the microscope and it's conviently forgotten that we had calls go against us also. It was a frantic game and I really think Gough wanted to let the game flow as much as possible. You would need eyes in the back of your head to see the amount of pulling and blocking off the ball, by players. I know that's of little consolation , but that's the way i see it. He didn't give a free, he gave a throw ball where the Dublin player hauled Donaghy down and played away. A later hop ball a third man not involved in the throw up jumped up and caught it before it was contested. Blatantly not allowed. But
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Post by haryegsnbaken on Aug 31, 2016 10:57:11 GMT
I had been staying away with the heartbreak but checked in yesterday and was quite happy with the mood. Today however I see we have decended into Mayo/Cork CB - style moaning and whingeing. Pathetic. The best team won. Accept that. Stop looking for excuses and explanations that absolve us of blame. When I see this * from other counties I want to get sick in my corn flakes. If our players --- and I don't believe they are --- go along with this narrative something is rotten. I've said it plenty of times: champions don't let the referee play any role in the result. Don't bother replying this with ifs and buts...grow up: we lost. Get over it. That's life. Spot on as usual Scaul.
I watched the game back last night and the winning and losing of the game was from 35mins to 45mins where we had a number of opportunities to answer the early Dublin scores. We either Fumbled, Mispassed, Turned over or Dropped short.
Where a goal gives a team oxygen, then mistakes like that do the opposite.
Whether the AOM hit was legal or not Philly was up and gone fairly sharpish. Tough hoor that he is.
The phantom 45 was a bit dubious alright. Umpire overruled by Ref(Bad optics there)
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Post by champer on Aug 31, 2016 11:55:38 GMT
Talk of this Dublin team being the best of the last 30 years doesn't stack up to reasoned analysis.
We all accept that this Kerry team is in transition and possibly 25-30% off the 2004-2009 Kerry team. That team was also playing against a number of top drawer teams at the time. Tyrone, Armagh, Cork etc. Dublin are now really competing with an average Kerry team, a reasonable Mayo team and nothing else.
I think I would take the 2009 Kerry team en bloc over this Kerry team
Kerry: D Murphy, M Ó Sé, T Griffin, T O'Sullivan, T Ó Sé (0-02), M McCarthy, K Young, D Ó Sé, S Scanlon, P Galvin, Declan O'Sullivan (0-01), T Kennelly (0-02), C Cooper (0-06, 6f), T Walsh (0-04), Darran O'Sullivan (0-01).
Substitutes: D Walsh for Kennelly (51), M Quirke for D Ó Sé (56), K Donaghy for Darran O’Sullivan (56), D Moran for T Walsh (67), A O’Mahony for Young (69).
Credit to Eamonn for getting us right to the tipping point with limited resources.
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Post by rockie36 on Aug 31, 2016 12:42:51 GMT
Let us take two completely different scenarios and opinions.
Opinion One: THE REFEREE HAD A FINE GAME AND GAVE FREES TO EACH TEAM EQUALLY AND HAD NOTHING TO DO WITH THE END RESULT: I would take my hat off to our management and team for nearly getting there...we didn't play at full tilt for the whole game and there were 4 or 5 unforced errors that we made ourselves that cost us in the end. We brought on 3 forwards when the game was drifting from us and they all scored from play....if we had won the game....we would be talking about the difference our bench made.
Opinion Two: THE REFEREE HAD A POOR GAME AND GAVE DECISIONS TO DUBLIN AT CRUCIAL STAGES THAT NEARLY ALL TURNED INTO SCORES: If you combine the aforementioned unforced errors that we had with the decisions the referee made or didn't make....I think we would have most definitely drawn or won the game. This Management and team would then be placed on a very high pedestal as the team that downed the DUBS...
My personal opinion is that the referees performance was conducive to a good game of football being served up but his decisions (or lack of) had a huge impact on the result as well. It is fine for the likes of Michael Quirke (Irish Examiner today) to say that referees never are at fault for the result of a game....that in my opinion is rubbish. If we had lost this game by 5/6 points then one hasn't a leg to stand on but I am positive that the Peter Crowley incident would have drawn the game...and the decision that troubles me most is the 50 that we should have got and instead they go straight down the field and the referee overturns his own umpires decision....that is a 2 point swing. I don't for one minute think that we are as good as Dublin...but when you give your all you would like to think that it is on a level playing field.
I am proud of everyone of our lads ... and we will rise again....
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dano
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Post by dano on Aug 31, 2016 14:07:37 GMT
I agree with Annascaul here. The game is lost , we laid down a marker for the future and performed better than anyone expected. But Dublin are in the Allireland. We were not good enough. Mayo should, by law of averages if anything, beat Dublin in the final. This is a great Dublin team but not the greatest ever. Far from it. They have to do back to back and then win two more in a row to get to there and there isn't a hope they'll do that. Not that I'd begrudge them if they did match that great feat of '78 to '81 but I know by their performances that they are not far enough ahead of the other top teams to do this. Kerry will, as always, regroup. The average is three cannisters every decade. One third of this has been achieved. There are three years left to do the rest. Two out of Three won't be bad. We can only dream of what three would be. Roll on the next challenge and forget about the last one.
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Post by wayupnorth on Aug 31, 2016 14:48:32 GMT
I agree with Annascaul here. The game is lost , we laid down a marker for the future and performed better than anyone expected. But Dublin are in the Allireland. We were not good enough. Mayo should, by law of averages if anything, beat Dublin in the final. This is a great Dublin team but not the greatest ever. Far from it. They have to do back to back and then win two more in a row to get to there and there isn't a hope they'll do that. Not that I'd begrudge them if they did match that great feat of '78 to '81 but I know by their performances that they are not far enough ahead of the other top teams to do this. Kerry will, as always, regroup. The average is three cannisters every decade. One third of this has been achieved. There are three years left to do the rest. Two out of Three won't be bad. We can only dream of what three would be. Roll on the next challenge and forget about the last one. I think we have to be clear in terms of attribution of greatness, bearing in mind that it is all subjective anyway. The current team look like the best DUBLIN team ever, not the best team ever. Whatever happens on the 3rd Sunday, I think they deserve that accolade. They have a little bit to do yet before they catch up on the great teams of the last decade: Tyrone with their first three All Irelands ever and Kerry with five in the decade including a back to back. They probably will achieve this but there is a very long way to go before we are talking about Kerry Golden Years level of greatness.
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Post by colinsworth1 on Aug 31, 2016 15:40:06 GMT
Let us take two completely different scenarios and opinions. Opinion One: THE REFEREE HAD A FINE GAME AND GAVE FREES TO EACH TEAM EQUALLY AND HAD NOTHING TO DO WITH THE END RESULT: I would take my hat off to our management and team for nearly getting there...we didn't play at full tilt for the whole game and there were 4 or 5 unforced errors that we made ourselves that cost us in the end. We brought on 3 forwards when the game was drifting from us and they all scored from play....if we had won the game....we would be talking about the difference our bench made. Opinion Two: THE REFEREE HAD A POOR GAME AND GAVE DECISIONS TO DUBLIN AT CRUCIAL STAGES THAT NEARLY ALL TURNED INTO SCORES: If you combine the aforementioned unforced errors that we had with the decisions the referee made or didn't make....I think we would have most definitely drawn or won the game. This Management and team would then be placed on a very high pedestal as the team that downed the DUBS... My personal opinion is that the referees performance was conducive to a good game of football being served up but his decisions (or lack of) had a huge impact on the result as well. It is fine for the likes of Michael Quirke (Irish Examiner today) to say that referees never are at fault for the result of a game....that in my opinion is rubbish. If we had lost this game by 5/6 points then one hasn't a leg to stand on but I am positive that the Peter Crowley incident would have drawn the game...and the decision that troubles me most is the 50 that we should have got and instead they go straight down the field and the referee overturns his own umpires decision....that is a 2 point swing. I don't for one minute think that we are as good as Dublin...but when you give your all you would like to think that it is on a level playing field. I am proud of everyone of our lads ... and we will rise again.... We put Rockie indeed Mike Quirke is a fine Journalist but his job and standing doesn't allow Him to question a referee even when the referee says black is white Are we all supposed to bow in total agreement when we're being wronged? Eamon and players also cannot vent their fustration at some of the puzzling calls and that's understandable totally But objective media general public and concerned citizens are fully Justified and have a duty to raise issues if needed. I agree the so called Phantom 45 was outrageous But the soft frees give from start of second half all Over the field were brutal if there was any doubt regarding a 50 /50 tangle or touching the ball on the Ground he quickly gave a free to the Dubs Never left the tangle develop and never gave the benefit of the Doubt to the ball on the ground nearly always quick whistle against Kerry Look at the smaller frees that led to the critical ones I've no Doubt we had to beat the Dubs and also had to beat the ref But we knew that ahead of time .We held the outcome of the game in Our own hands and made too many kicking errors and yes we can blame ourselves no problem but that's not the full story here .
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