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Post by jackiel on Aug 1, 2016 23:00:47 GMT
It pains me to express it but I really cant see us in the final, never mind winning it. we have regressed since 2014 and the problems we had last September continue to be repeated.The league final was just horrendous and all of the "sure its only the league" stuff is bull. We needed to put in a performance against Dublin that day and again we caved. I really hope that I'm wrong and that there's a plan to hide our light under a bushel til the semi but the realist in me doesnt believe that. It may be time for some of our elder statesmen to step aside and we can rebuild with some of the talent coming from recent Minor & U21 teams. Had we been playing Dublin yesterday they'd have slaughtered us. Living in hope for a massive turnabout for the next day.
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Post by thebluepanther on Aug 1, 2016 23:47:46 GMT
First post here, I have enjoyed reading some interesting discussions and debates on here over the last few years and I hope you don't mind if I can add to the debate from time to time. I was curious to know who would you rather see win next weekend between Dublin and Donegal.
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Post by derry4sam on Aug 2, 2016 2:06:28 GMT
I can only see a repeat of the league final come the 28th. It just appears to have gone extremely stale within the Kerry camp. The team lacks a balance, the young fellas brought in don't convince, there doesn't appear to be a decent keeper in the county and management look utterly confused on the sideline. I don't see where the required improvements can come from?
Surprised a few on here think Donegal will beat Dublin.. As a poster mentioned above, it will be a tight affair for 45/50 mins and Dublin will pull away comfortably in the end. I heard James McCarthy is available for selection for the weekend?
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Post by Annascaultilidie on Aug 2, 2016 8:04:59 GMT
Donegal "can" win at the weekend.
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Post by thechosenone on Aug 2, 2016 9:11:29 GMT
To be honest there is very very little chance of Mark Griffin playing midfield the next day. Maybe if they had trialed it during the league. And bursting out from the back with the ball is a lot different to playing midfield.
Someone also said that O'Donoghue has lost his pace. I don't see where they are getting that from. It was his first championship start since last September so of course he was going to look leggy. And in the tracking back stakes he's normally a lot better than Gooch at it. I think he just got a bit tired the last day.
Regarding the midfield issue looking to the future - do Mark O'Connor or Barry O'Sullivan have much pace about them or are they in the mould of David Moran?
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Post by haryegsnbaken on Aug 2, 2016 9:38:53 GMT
F F at centre forward .... Ffs He would do a similar job to Paul Murphy.
I didn't say I agree with it, but if Fitzy persists with a defensive No 11 then what can you do?
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Post by Mickmack on Aug 2, 2016 15:18:33 GMT
First post here, I have enjoyed reading some interesting discussions and debates on here over the last few years and I hope you don't mind if I can add to the debate from time to time. I was curious to know who would you rather see win next weekend between Dublin and Donegal. Donegal..... welcome! Initial profiling by the username would suggest supporter of Synge Street Club and Anton O'Toole being the favourite player for Dublin!!!
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Post by thebluepanther on Aug 2, 2016 15:58:23 GMT
First post here, I have enjoyed reading some interesting discussions and debates on here over the last few years and I hope you don't mind if I can add to the debate from time to time. I was curious to know who would you rather see win next weekend between Dublin and Donegal. Donegal..... welcome! Initial profiling by the username would suggest supporter of Synge Street Club and Anton O'Toole being the favourite player for Dublin!!! Thanks, Anton would be a favourite player alright as is our new blue panther Dermo. Would ye think EF would have factored in beating Clare with basically any team he put out and the real team line outs for a possible semi final against the Dubs /Donegal was practiced behind closed doors or is that reading too much into it.
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Post by Mickmack on Aug 2, 2016 16:06:36 GMT
No idea jim
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Post by kerrygold on Aug 2, 2016 16:38:57 GMT
Donegal..... welcome! Initial profiling by the username would suggest supporter of Synge Street Club and Anton O'Toole being the favourite player for Dublin!!! Thanks, Anton would be a favourite player alright as is our new blue panther Dermo. Would ye think EF would have factored in beating Clare with basically any team he put out and the real team line outs for a possible semi final against the Dubs /Donegal was practiced behind closed doors or is that reading too much into it. I presume the Dubs with their vast reserves have paid google earth to provide footage of training in Fitz Stadium!
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Aug 2, 2016 18:06:59 GMT
I just can't see Dublin slipping up to Donegal again like they did in 2014. They underestimated them and they paid for it. Gavin is a smart man. Hes hell bent on winning the back to back and will leave no stone unturned in order to achieve it. It helps that he has arguably the best group of players that Dublin have ever produced at his disposal. Kerry on the other hand are still hanging on to some players who in my opinion are well past it and some good prospects. maoruisce65 you hit the nail on the head when you said players in kerry seem to decide when they want to retire instead of the Manager deciding.
A lot of people talking about Donaghy starting at full forward. In order for that to work first he has to get quality ball which i doubt very much we have the players to deliver it out the field and secondly Dublin will be ready for the high ball and drop players back on him. Even if you put Donaghy in there you still need to vary it and not kick every single ball in there to him.
Kerry won't win heres why. The only way you can beat Dublin is pace you need to move it fast and hit them quickly on the counter attack. 2 reasons Kerry won't do that. They don't have the pace in the team and we dont have have a quality midfielder to play against Dublin. Paul Geaney and James O'Donghue are outstanding Forwards. Darren O'Sullivan and Stephen O'Brien have enough pace to do some damage. Donnach Walsh is finished. He has been a great servant but he doesn't have the legs to start in the modern game. He could still do a job for you for 15 minutes if we are still in the game. Colm Cooper is also past it. It really pains me to say it as a Crokes man but he has never been the same since he came back. He lost that bit of pace he had and he cant twist the same way on the knee anymore. I have watched him enough. He used to use that knee to pivot away from a defender and it's gone the knee just won't do it anymore. Plus he's 33 now as well. Donaghy at 33 just can't keep up with these midfielders today he's too old. Sheehan Maher and Moran are too slow. They just can't run after players like Fenton and MacAuley it's too much for them.
Dublin have most of their players in their prime right now and they can run and have the pace in the team to destroy any defence in Ireland. Connolly is outstanding along with Kilkenny and Brogan. Flynn is a solid player. I don't rate Rock too highly but if hes not producing you have Andrews Mannion O'Gara Costello and McManoman who can all step up and score goals and points. I think it's too much for the Kerry backs. Of course Kerry always concede goals to Dublin which you can't do if you want to win. Im hoping Kerry can keep it to 4 to 6 points defeat. My fear is Dublin win by more than they did in the League final. Sorry to be so negative and it would be a huge scalp for Kerry and Fitzmaurice if they were to win it but I think we will have to wait until we get some of theses really good minors that we have to come through to the senior team before we beat dublin again. I like Tyrone from the other side to set up an interesting final with Dublin. On the plus side I think we will win the Minors again.
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Post by Mickmack on Aug 2, 2016 18:17:23 GMT
I agree with you nacrocaigh. The only thing different is that i would put Donaghy at left corner forward.
We will beat Dublin again but we are between great teams at the moment. This is the best Dublin team ever.
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Post by Annascaultilidie on Aug 2, 2016 18:35:05 GMT
The reason Dublin won't get caught out like 2014 is that they won't go all out attack, precisely because they were in 2014 and will have learnt their lesson. Dublin were incredibly naive in that game and just didn't defend at all.
They will, like Kerry in 2014, keep their backs in position and just be stubborn and grind Donegal down, grabbing more scores off their quality forwards than Donegal can.
Dublin to win a not-very-open game.
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Post by kerrygold on Aug 2, 2016 18:47:44 GMT
I just can't see Dublin slipping up to Donegal again like they did in 2014. They underestimated them and they paid for it. Gavin is a smart man. Hes hell bent on winning the back to back and will leave no stone unturned in order to achieve it. It helps that he has arguably the best group of players that Dublin have ever produced at his disposal. Kerry on the other hand are still hanging on to some players who in my opinion are well past it and some good prospects. maoruisce65 you hit the nail on the head when you said players in kerry seem to decide when they want to retire instead of the Manager deciding. A lot of people talking about Donaghy starting at full forward. In order for that to work first he has to get quality ball which i doubt very much we have the players to deliver it out the field and secondly Dublin will be ready for the high ball and drop players back on him. Even if you put Donaghy in there you still need to vary it and not kick every single ball in there to him. Kerry won't win heres why. The only way you can beat Dublin is pace you need to move it fast and hit them quickly on the counter attack. 2 reasons Kerry won't do that. They don't have the pace in the team and we dont have have a quality midfielder to play against Dublin. Paul Geaney and James O'Donghue are outstanding Forwards. Darren O'Sullivan and Stephen O'Brien have enough pace to do some damage. Donnach Walsh is finished. He has been a great servant but he doesn't have the legs to start in the modern game. He could still do a job for you for 15 minutes if we are still in the game. Colm Cooper is also past it. It really pains me to say it as a Crokes man but he has never been the same since he came back. He lost that bit of pace he had and he cant twist the same way on the knee anymore. I have watched him enough. He used to use that knee to pivot away from a defender and it's gone the knee just won't do it anymore. Plus he's 33 now as well. Donaghy at 33 just can't keep up with these midfielders today he's too old. Sheehan Maher and Moran are too slow. They just can't run after players like Fenton and MacAuley it's too much for them. Dublin have most of their players in their prime right now and they can run and have the pace in the team to destroy any defence in Ireland. Connolly is outstanding along with Kilkenny and Brogan. Flynn is a solid player. I don't rate Rock too highly but if hes not producing you have Andrews Mannion O'Gara Costello and McManoman who can all step up and score goals and points. I think it's too much for the Kerry backs. Of course Kerry always concede goals to Dublin which you can't do if you want to win. Im hoping Kerry can keep it to 4 to 6 points defeat. My fear is Dublin win by more than they did in the League final. Sorry to be so negative and it would be a huge scalp for Kerry and Fitzmaurice if they were to win it but I think we will have to wait until we get some of theses really good minors that we have to come through to the senior team before we beat dublin again. I like Tyrone from the other side to set up an interesting final with Dublin. On the plus side I think we will win the Minors again. Good post nacrocaigh and to the point. Dublin's weakened defence must be considered a factor also in the overall scheme of things. Of course were assuming everything is well with Dublin and they will have the hunger to win back to back championships. No shame in not being good enough. Kilkenny couldn't win an All-Ireland for a long time after the '82'83 back to back winning team broke up and were very ropey throughout the '90s also at times. I won't lose a minutes sleep whichever way this game goes against Dublin.
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Post by Mickmack on Aug 2, 2016 19:41:53 GMT
Kelly
Begley Enright Killian
Paul Murphy Peter Crowley Darren
Maher Griffin
Paul Geaney Stephen OBrien JOD
Colm Sheehan Donaghy
This team would give you an attacking half back line that can score, a half forward line that can kick points from distance and a full forward line that would puts the willies up the Dublin fullback line.
The problem would arise in the 60th minute when they tire and replacements might now be as stromg as Dublins
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Post by thebluepanther on Aug 2, 2016 20:37:44 GMT
Thanks, Anton would be a favourite player alright as is our new blue panther Dermo. Would ye think EF would have factored in beating Clare with basically any team he put out and the real team line outs for a possible semi final against the Dubs /Donegal was practiced behind closed doors or is that reading too much into it. I presume the Dubs with their vast reserves have paid google earth to provide footage of training in Fitz Stadium! No need, Rumour has it the Dublin squad flew down in their own AIG private jet last weekend to watch ye boys train, Jim took the wheel 😉
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fg
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Post by fg on Aug 2, 2016 21:05:14 GMT
Kelly Begley Enright Killian Paul Murphy Peter Crowley Darren Maher Griffin Paul Geaney Stephen OBrien JOD Colm Sheehan Donaghy This team would give you an attacking half back line that can score, a half forward line that can kick points from distance and a full forward line that would puts the willies up the Dublin fullback line. The problem would arise in the 60th minute when they tire and replacements might now be as stromg as Dublins In fairness I have perused many many projected teams on here over the course of the years but that is the most fascinating Mickmack, in an intriguing and exciting way.
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Post by veteran on Aug 2, 2016 21:14:29 GMT
Kelly Begley Enright Killian Paul Murphy Peter Crowley Darren Maher Griffin Paul Geaney Stephen OBrien JOD Colm Sheehan Donaghy This team would give you an attacking half back line that can score, a half forward line that can kick points from distance and a full forward line that would puts the willies up the Dublin fullback line. The problem would arise in the 60th minute when they tire and replacements might now be as stromg as Dublins Have you drink taken or what ? Do you not remember Jack' s flight of fancy a couple of years ago when he tried Darran at number seven in the McGrath cup? It lasted a game and a half. Have you seen Darran's efforts at tackling? No doubt he would attack all day long but may God protect us when he is asked to defend.
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Post by kerrygold on Aug 2, 2016 21:16:24 GMT
Savage pace in the fullforward line!
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Post by kerrybhoy06 on Aug 2, 2016 21:24:21 GMT
I admire your attempts at thinking outside the box- some of the suggestions look like they have merit to them and some maybe not- at this stage though I cant see any drastic changes happening in team selection.
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fg
Senior Member
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Post by fg on Aug 2, 2016 21:26:49 GMT
Look at that half forward line, the boys inside wouldn't have to move, just win the perfectly place ball and lay it off again or if close enough to the goal just bury it, you have three high fielders in the inside line there who could win their own ball
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Post by kerrygold on Aug 2, 2016 21:29:56 GMT
Look at that half forward line, the boys inside wouldn't have to move, just win the perfectly place ball and lay it off again or if close enough to the goal just bury it, you have three high fielders in the inside line there who could win their own ball We'd be replacing the twin towers with the static electrics!
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fg
Senior Member
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Post by fg on Aug 2, 2016 21:33:47 GMT
Look at that half forward line, the boys inside wouldn't have to move, just win the perfectly place ball and lay it off again or if close enough to the goal just bury it, you have three high fielders in the inside line there who could win their own ball We'd be replacing the twin towers with the static electrics!
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Post by Annascaultilidie on Aug 2, 2016 21:52:37 GMT
Kelly Begley Enright Killian Paul Murphy Peter Crowley Darren Maher Griffin Paul Geaney Stephen OBrien JOD Colm Sheehan Donaghy This team would give you an attacking half back line that can score, a half forward line that can kick points from distance and a full forward line that would puts the willies up the Dublin fullback line. The problem would arise in the 60th minute when they tire and replacements might now be as stromg as Dublins Have you drink taken or what ? Do you not remember Jack' s flight of fancy a couple of years ago when he tried Darran at number seven in the McGrath cup? It lasted a game and a half. Have you seen Darran's efforts at tackling? No doubt he would attack all day long but may God protect us when he is asked to defend.
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fivenarow
Senior Member
If it aint broken, then dont fix it!
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Post by fivenarow on Aug 2, 2016 22:12:42 GMT
I just can't see Dublin slipping up to Donegal again like they did in 2014. They underestimated them and they paid for it. Gavin is a smart man. Hes hell bent on winning the back to back and will leave no stone unturned in order to achieve it. It helps that he has arguably the best group of players that Dublin have ever produced at his disposal. Kerry on the other hand are still hanging on to some players who in my opinion are well past it and some good prospects. maoruisce65 you hit the nail on the head when you said players in kerry seem to decide when they want to retire instead of the Manager deciding. A lot of people talking about Donaghy starting at full forward. In order for that to work first he has to get quality ball which i doubt very much we have the players to deliver it out the field and secondly Dublin will be ready for the high ball and drop players back on him. Even if you put Donaghy in there you still need to vary it and not kick every single ball in there to him. Kerry won't win heres why. The only way you can beat Dublin is pace you need to move it fast and hit them quickly on the counter attack. 2 reasons Kerry won't do that. They don't have the pace in the team and we dont have have a quality midfielder to play against Dublin. Paul Geaney and James O'Donghue are outstanding Forwards. Darren O'Sullivan and Stephen O'Brien have enough pace to do some damage. Donnach Walsh is finished. He has been a great servant but he doesn't have the legs to start in the modern game. He could still do a job for you for 15 minutes if we are still in the game. Colm Cooper is also past it. It really pains me to say it as a Crokes man but he has never been the same since he came back. He lost that bit of pace he had and he cant twist the same way on the knee anymore. I have watched him enough. He used to use that knee to pivot away from a defender and it's gone the knee just won't do it anymore. Plus he's 33 now as well. Donaghy at 33 just can't keep up with these midfielders today he's too old. Sheehan Maher and Moran are too slow. They just can't run after players like Fenton and MacAuley it's too much for them. Dublin have most of their players in their prime right now and they can run and have the pace in the team to destroy any defence in Ireland. Connolly is outstanding along with Kilkenny and Brogan. Flynn is a solid player. I don't rate Rock too highly but if hes not producing you have Andrews Mannion O'Gara Costello and McManoman who can all step up and score goals and points. I think it's too much for the Kerry backs. Of course Kerry always concede goals to Dublin which you can't do if you want to win. Im hoping Kerry can keep it to 4 to 6 points defeat. My fear is Dublin win by more than they did in the League final. Sorry to be so negative and it would be a huge scalp for Kerry and Fitzmaurice if they were to win it but I think we will have to wait until we get some of theses really good minors that we have to come through to the senior team before we beat dublin again. I like Tyrone from the other side to set up an interesting final with Dublin. On the plus side I think we will win the Minors again. That's a fair assessment Nacrocaigh.
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kerryexile
Fanatical Member
Whether you believe that you can, or that you can't, you are right anyway.
Posts: 1,117
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Post by kerryexile on Aug 2, 2016 22:44:53 GMT
A wide range of opinions and selections there. Based on "The Wisdom of The Crowd" the perfect team is the average of all the opinions - how ever you get that in the case of picking a football team.
The theory was first obseerved -
".... At a 1906 country fair in Plymouth, 800 people participated in a contest to estimate the weight of a slaughtered and dressed ox. Statistician Francis Galton observed that the median guess, 1207 pounds, was accurate within 1% of the true weight of 1198 pounds....."
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Post by Annascaultilidie on Aug 2, 2016 23:00:26 GMT
A wide range of opinions and selections there. Based on "The Wisdom of The Crowd" the perfect team is the average of all the opinions - how ever you get that in the case of picking a football team. The theory was first obseerved - ".... At a 1906 country fair in Plymouth, 800 people participated in a contest to estimate the weight of a slaughtered and dressed ox. Statistician Francis Galton observed that the median guess, 1207 pounds, was accurate within 1% of the true weight of 1198 pounds....." This Wisdom of the Crowd is largely a consequence of the Law of Large Numbers which was first spoken about in the 16th century. It shouldn't apply to picking sports teams though! The guesses have to be independent (i.e. we can't see each others guesses). Do a Guess the Weight where everyone puts their guess into a box and the average well-approximates the true weight. Do a Guess the Weight on a sheet of paper and people's guesses are influenced by those guesses which have gone before and the hypotheses of the Law of Large are not fulfilled and the average guess is not a good predictor of the true weight in general.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Aug 2, 2016 23:02:52 GMT
Look lads the bottom line is this is a very good Dublin team. Like Kerrygold said there is no shame really in losing to them. I fully expect it to happen but look we had their number for a long time. We beat them in '78 '79 '84 '85 '01 '07 '09 maybe more. I think it has come full turn now no doubt they have the better players. It won't last we have good talent coming through again and in my opinion good minor teams or u17 teams until 2019 2020 area. It happens with Kerry you had Galway and Down in the 60s, the Dubs in the 70s, Tyrone in the 00s and now Dublin again. You only hope that those Counties will come and go and we will stay constant going by history again like Kerry gold said I won't lose any sleep over it anyway cause I think the future looks bright for Kerry.
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Post by Attacking Wing Back on Aug 2, 2016 23:10:54 GMT
Kelly Begley Enright Killian Paul Murphy Peter Crowley Darren Maher Griffin Paul Geaney Stephen OBrien JOD Colm Sheehan Donaghy This team would give you an attacking half back line that can score, a half forward line that can kick points from distance and a full forward line that would puts the willies up the Dublin fullback line. The problem would arise in the 60th minute when they tire and replacements might now be as stromg as Dublins I like thinking outside the box but, that team would get mauled.. who would Darren mark? Flynn? Kilkenny? The half forward line would win no breaking ball. Added the completely slow nature of the full forward line the Dublin corner backs would hare up the field. As others have said our problem is a serious lack of pace at midfield. Any runner from midfield has the legs on whoever we pick there at the minute unless we go for an unorthodox approach. Maher, Moran, Donaghy, Sheehan even Buckley are the standard options there. Any two from that quintet are too slow I echo nacrocaigh comments re gooch as well
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Post by Mickmack on Aug 2, 2016 23:26:07 GMT
If we go with the teams being picked at the moment or was picked for the league final...then we will get another mauling. The only way is to put Dublin on the back foot early and force them to spend more time defending than attacking and force them to make a few early substitutions. Jeez i havent got such lackery since that time i suggested putting Mike Quirke at fullback...they were nearly jumping of Knocknagoshel pier over that suggestion.
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