fitz
Fanatical Member
Red sky at night get off my land
Posts: 1,719
|
Post by fitz on Sept 7, 2015 13:27:10 GMT
Thin they should give McStay a crack - he has been able to manage a team to a club All Ireland. Joint managers - wtf. They got so many things wrong on the day and still had a 4 point lead with 15 mins to go. Dublin's backs give O'Shea's isolation haven't had a real test yet, against proper scoring forwards. Given that for two games they're used to doubling up on O'Shea might be a strong indicator to start Geaney - to mix it up a bit. Andrews is very good, his foot speed on the turn is incredible to see Higgins put on his arse in the first half. BUT - if he doesn't start well and gets rattled, misses scores, I think the head goes down - a significant BUT of course. Connolly and yet again Flynn were not at the races but Kilkenny and Andrews and gradually Bernard stepped it up. I think it best not to get overcomes by Dublin's 3-5 in last 12 mins, which was incredible, but needs some reflective context. It was Mayo who ceded control as opposed to Dublin taking it. Keegan point miss.Some brutal defending from Mayo with that little bit of luck Fenton got from screwing his shot. I watched the first half in detail last night and Mayo coughed up 7-8 plays from good advanced positions, either wides, abhorrent long balls into a static O'Shea that went nowhere near him, to two unforced shots into Cluxton's hands. Mayo had a load of possession - they just have no collective set of forwards and the continued propensity for making game changing errors. Two bright notes for them are Diarmuid O'Connor, looks a fine player, confident and well able to take a score and Tom Parsons. Key turnover against him in second half but he did a pile of good work both days. On a final note as well as not tracking McMahon, after the first half scare (that's on O'Shea really), James McCarthy did a pile of destructive roaming and linking and got a great score. HE is the KEY link man to the forwards, and we will have to dilute his influence.
|
|
|
Post by sinkthelead on Sept 7, 2015 13:34:43 GMT
I thought he had a great game against Kerry in the 2013 match. I couldn't figure why he wasn't a nailed down regular. I dont remember that but he would ususally have been on the bench I think .. Virtually un-markable yesterday !! I'd say he'll be a regular now !! injury kept him out of the team for most of last year And your right about him being excellent against Kerry 2 years ago, he was instrumental in a lot of dublins scores that day linking from the 40. Especially the 5 points we got on the trot to draw level. He wasn't so good against Kerry in 09 when he was selected at corner back! A terrific player to my mind very well balanced two footed naturally talented player, also a very good soccer player by all acounts
|
|
|
Post by Dermot on Sept 7, 2015 13:36:06 GMT
Great game and congrats to the Dubs .. Rashers etc.. will be happy chappies after that .. Enjoy it chaps its a great feeling (yep, I still sorta remember lol) Jeez, it must be tough to support Mayo ... Feel so sorry for the poor feckers I really thought this was their year and I "really" thought they had it in the bag yesterday with 15 mins to go .. How Lee Keegan missed that easy point just summed Mayo up .. For a really top player like him to do that is inexcusable it you have any aspirations to win an AI .. It leads you to believe that there really is something "fundamentally" wrong in the Mayo mentality at this stage which is subconsciously stopping them for kicking on and winning this damn thing !!! I liked James Horan, he did a lot right but he wasnt a great/good tactician, I believe this new fella is no better .. Some terrible decisions 2 weeks in a row (just as Horan did last year) which everyone know about so I wont repeat .. But Jeez it must madden a lot of Mayo people to see them not pushing up on Cluxton enough and to see AOS totally undersued .. that 2 weeks in a row he's been a peripheral figure .. He's better than that !! Mayo need an outside manager .. I would nearly guarantee that Jim McGuinness would have them winning an AI within 2 years.. They need someone who can change their mentality completely and stop the ridiculous capitulation that will otherwise inevitably happen at some stage of their run... its their MENTALITY which is their biggest downfall .... If I was from Mayo and considering our past record in AI's I would have been pretty bemused to see AOS walking off the field yesterday in a Dublin jersey ... Simply Flabbergasted MDMA made some difference when he came on and when the hell did Paddy Andrews get so good .. he's been brilliant over the last 2 weeks .. I seem to remember that he couldnt get on that team for years !! Also, McMahon is a damn site better player than I though .. had a very good game yesterday.. I believe this is possibly bad news for Kerry though as even if Mayo had scraped past the Dubs yesterday they probably still would have capitulated to you guys in the final .. I dont believe Dublin will do that and the 2 games will have brought them on heaps, just as it did for you guys last year .. Dublin to win the AI now ... Well I'm 70% sure on that anyway !!! .. ok, maybe 60% In my opinion Dermot I felt that Kerry were flat in the final last year. Luckily for us Donegal were as well. It took a mammoth effort to get over Mayo last year. I think we'll be fresher now and I expect us to be rip roaring on the 20th. It will remain to be seen if the Dubs will be flat after their battles with Mayo. You coul dbe right Seaniebo but I'd rather be going into an AI with the extra game .. 2 weeks should be enough time for recovery .. As you say, time will certainly tell .. It should be a great game and I for one cant wait !!
|
|
Jo90
Fanatical Member
Posts: 2,688
|
Post by Jo90 on Sept 7, 2015 13:44:21 GMT
I dont remember that but he would ususally have been on the bench I think .. Virtually un-markable yesterday !! I'd say he'll be a regular now !! injury kept him out of the team for most of last year And your right about him being excellent against Kerry 2 years ago, he was instrumental in a lot of dublins scores that day linking from the 40. Especially the 5 points we got on the trot to draw level. He wasn't so good against Kerry in 09 when he was selected at corner back! A terrific player to my mind very well balanced two footed naturally talented player, also a very good soccer player by all acounts He was marking Gooch that day, wouldn't be the first corner back to have a bad day at the office on Gooch. Strange to think he's 27.
|
|
fitz
Fanatical Member
Red sky at night get off my land
Posts: 1,719
|
Post by fitz on Sept 7, 2015 15:04:16 GMT
2009 was Gooch's worst year form wise I would venture. No score from play in AI final. The only time I remember Anthony Lynch getting the better of him, in Munster final replay. Out on the drink when ban was on.
Again, Andrews foot speed in changing direction as well as his kicking accuracy means he's of the Molotov danger category forward opponents. A smaller defender (height) which was have is likely best to be able to stick with him when he has possession. It would be no surprise if Dublin tried lobbing in some high ball themselves
|
|
|
Post by Ballyfireside on Sept 7, 2015 20:20:12 GMT
The best analysis I read!
John O’Keeffe: there is no doubt now Dublin still have the hunger
Dublin used the six days between the first game and the replay to fix a couple of issues
Should we have ever doubted them? We found out a lot on Saturday, one of which is that Dublin – even with two All-Ireland titles since 2011 – still have the hunger. There’s no questioning the character of this Dublin team after this performance. When they were four points down after 50-odd minutes there was no panic and they retained the self-belief in the process to win and, in the end, to win well.
I don’t think anyone can dispute that the better team won, and Dublin certainly used the six days between the first game and the replay to fix a couple of issues which plagued them that day: firstly, their discipline was vastly improved; and, secondly, there was far more intelligent use of the ball in hand and their accuracy of passing and shooting improved immensely.
In a way you’ve got to feel a little bit of sympathy for Mayo in again getting so far in the championship only to again finish up empty-handed for all of their endeavours.
Once again they were involved in an epic game. Once again they lost out.
The harsh reality, though, is that many of these players have been knocking on the door time and time again in recent years without attaining the ultimate, and there is probably a need for four or five or even six new players to break through in the way Diarmuid O’Connor has this year if they are ever to win the All-Ireland. They need fresh blood.
Dublin’s win was impressive for a number of reasons.
I think it is a sign of a excellent team that even when their go-to players – Diarmuid Connolly and Paul Flynn – were off the pace and didn’t have their best of days, others, especially Paddy Andrews and Ciarán Kilkenny and the ever-reliable Bernard Brogan, stepped up their performances.
We’re so used to seeing Connolly and Flynn lead and drive the forward line but I thought Andrews showed real class throughout and five points from play tells its own story.
I couldn’t understand why Mayo didn’t push up on Stephen Cluxton’s kickouts. I know it is easier said than done to implement such a plan to counteract his kicks but Mayo made it far too easy and it’s a bit like reciting an old cliché in saying that Cluxton’s kickouts were again the platform for Dublin – especially from the hard-running half-backs Jack McCaffrey and James McCarthy – to launch attack after attack.
From Dublin’s defensive standpoint the return of Rory O’Carroll was very important and he brought an assuredness and presence into the full back line that was absent in the drawn game.
It seemed as if Mayo had no defensive strategy beyond adopting a man-to-man marking system. I know there was an attempt to have a sweeper system but it was naive and akin to putting the nuts and bolts onto a structure without actually tightening them.
Roaming freely It was ineffective and the sight of Philly McMahon roaming freely into the opposition territory was confirmation that Mayo’s defensive mechanism didn’t work.
As it was Mayo’s man-to-man marking wasn’t up to standard, as we seen with Andrews, Kilkenny and Bernard Brogan turning their markers. Mayo were far too loose.
And yet Mayo did get into a position to win the game. I felt that Lee Keegan’s miss – another shot from Mayo that dropped short into Cluxton’s hands – was a turning point in the game. It would have put Mayo five points ahead and those poor attempts are just so deflating for players.
The game turned Dublin’s way after that, the black card handed out to Séamus O’Shea coming back to haunt Mayo as Michael Darraagh Macauley joined Brian Fenton – who gave a very much improved performance, winning possession and using it well in linking up with his forwards – as Dublin started to dominate that sector. This performance will be a fillip for Macauley after what has been a poor season by his own standards.
The Dublin substitutes were also important. I have a lot of time for Kevin McManamon and what he brings to a game. His contributions off the bench are almost legendary and he again produced the goods. He was excellent and the contrast between the quality of players Dublin were able to bring on compared to those that Mayo called on was significant. Dublin have real quality on the bench; they are genuine game-changers.
Fresh wounds This is a defeat that will have hurt Mayo more than others of recent years purely because it is the most recent. Fresh wounds are always the hardest to take and it gets harder for players to return year after year with the amount of time and dedication needed in the modern game.
The harsh reality is that Mayo need to introduce new players into the system – and it could take another couple of years for their minor All-Ireland winners of a couple of years ago to develop. But that new blood is definitely needed; they need to find another few O’Connor. It takes a couple of years for players to acquire the physique required for the senior game. It is a step up.
Dublin now have Kerry waiting for them in the long grass but this display will have done them the world of good.
This was a performance that showed their hunger and their character.
|
|
|
Post by Mickmack on Sept 7, 2015 21:43:24 GMT
Great game and congrats to the Dubs .. Rashers etc.. will be happy chappies after that .. Enjoy it chaps its a great feeling (yep, I still sorta remember lol) Jeez, it must be tough to support Mayo ... Feel so sorry for the poor feckers I really thought this was their year and I "really" thought they had it in the bag yesterday with 15 mins to go .. How Lee Keegan missed that easy point just summed Mayo up .. For a really top player like him to do that is inexcusable it you have any aspirations to win an AI .. It leads you to believe that there really is something "fundamentally" wrong in the Mayo mentality at this stage which is subconsciously stopping them for kicking on and winning this damn thing !!! I liked James Horan, he did a lot right but he wasnt a great/good tactician, I believe this new fella is no better .. Some terrible decisions 2 weeks in a row (just as Horan did last year) which everyone know about so I wont repeat .. But Jeez it must madden a lot of Mayo people to see them not pushing up on Cluxton enough and to see AOS totally undersued .. that 2 weeks in a row he's been a peripheral figure .. He's better than that !! Mayo need an outside manager .. I would nearly guarantee that Jim McGuinness would have them winning an AI within 2 years.. They need someone who can change their mentality completely and stop the ridiculous capitulation that will otherwise inevitably happen at some stage of their run... its their MENTALITY which is their biggest downfall .... If I was from Mayo and considering our past record in AI's I would have been pretty bemused to see AOS walking off the field yesterday in a Dublin jersey ... Simply Flabbergasted MDMA made some difference when he came on and when the hell did Paddy Andrews get so good .. he's been brilliant over the last 2 weeks .. I seem to remember that he couldnt get on that team for years !! Also, McMahon is a damn site better player than I though .. had a very good game yesterday.. I believe this is possibly bad news for Kerry though as even if Mayo had scraped past the Dubs yesterday they probably still would have capitulated to you guys in the final .. I dont believe Dublin will do that and the 2 games will have brought them on heaps, just as it did for you guys last year .. Dublin to win the AI now ... Well I'm 70% sure on that anyway !!! .. ok, maybe 60% Dermot I think Tyrone would have beaten Mayo is the semi final pairings had thrown that up. Do you?
|
|
|
Post by ballynamona on Sept 7, 2015 21:46:33 GMT
it must be heartbreaking for mayo folk. They are not helped by the paucity of the challenge they get in connaught every year and I think they maybe feel they are better than they are. They are an excellently prepared, supremely fit, incredibly commited bunch of players but they are overall, in my opinion, lacking a number of top players to be considered a great team. the quality of player they have is nowhere near the levels of kerry, dublin, donegal. and they also seem weak mentally. when they were in a position to win on saturday. it almost looked as if they were afraid to grab it. same last week. Agreed, Cillian O'Connor (from play), McLaughlin and Jason Doherty means that 50% of their forwards have little or no scoring threat. That is a severe handicap. For all that, as I said in another thread, they still have enough quality that an AI would be winnable with the right manager.
|
|
|
Post by Mickmack on Sept 7, 2015 21:46:55 GMT
On the Seamus OShea card... I thought the offence had to be "cynical".... it was either a yellow or a red for me. It probably deserved a red for sheer stupidity.
|
|
|
Post by Ard Mhacha on Sept 7, 2015 21:57:22 GMT
On the Seamus OShea card... I thought the offence had to be "cynical".... it was either a yellow or a red for me. It probably deserved a red for sheer stupidity. I'd agree with that.
|
|
|
Post by norman on Sept 7, 2015 22:17:54 GMT
S o Shea was really stupid to react like that. Tyrone would have beaten that Mayo team last saturday by at least 2 points.
|
|
|
Post by ballynamona on Sept 7, 2015 22:24:46 GMT
On the Seamus OShea card... I thought the offence had to be "cynical".... it was either a yellow or a red for me. It probably deserved a red for sheer stupidity. I don't think cynicism is in the definition of a black. Perhaps it ought to be, but I don't think it is. It is for bringing a player to ground.
|
|
|
Post by Mickmack on Sept 7, 2015 22:37:23 GMT
On the Seamus OShea card... I thought the offence had to be "cynical".... it was either a yellow or a red for me. It probably deserved a red for sheer stupidity. I don't think cynicism is in the definition of a black. Perhaps it ought to be, but I don't think it is. It is for bringing a player to ground. Its for body checking (David Moran v Cork) and for the "Sean Cavanagh type situation" where he prevented a goal by pulling a guy to the ground. What threat was Seamus OShea to the Dubs at the time. The linesman clearly doesn't understand what the black card is for either.
|
|
fitz
Fanatical Member
Red sky at night get off my land
Posts: 1,719
|
Post by fitz on Sept 7, 2015 22:57:32 GMT
On the Seamus OShea card... I thought the offence had to be "cynical".... it was either a yellow or a red for me. It probably deserved a red for sheer stupidity. I'd agree with that. The end result indeed reflected stupidity, but you mean to say grounded perspective in an intense high paced encounter should prevail when cheap shot elbow from Cooper hits you in the lower back. Cooper has got himself dropped for the final, no discipline. Fitzsimons did well and will take his spot. Might be lucky break cos James would torch Cooper from play and frees. The biggest joke is he didn't even get booked for it, not that I could see.
|
|
|
Post by ballynamona on Sept 7, 2015 23:02:41 GMT
I don't think cynicism is in the definition of a black. Perhaps it ought to be, but I don't think it is. It is for bringing a player to ground. Its for body checking (David Moran v Cork) and for the "Sean Cavanagh type situation" where he prevented a goal by pulling a guy to the ground. What threat was Seamus OShea to the Dubs at the time. The linesman clearly doesn't understand what the black card is for either. Yes, it was an off the ball incident. I would agree with you that it is not what the black card was brought in for.
|
|
|
Post by Dermot on Sept 8, 2015 11:10:56 GMT
Great game and congrats to the Dubs .. Rashers etc.. will be happy chappies after that .. Enjoy it chaps its a great feeling (yep, I still sorta remember lol) Jeez, it must be tough to support Mayo ... Feel so sorry for the poor feckers I really thought this was their year and I "really" thought they had it in the bag yesterday with 15 mins to go .. How Lee Keegan missed that easy point just summed Mayo up .. For a really top player like him to do that is inexcusable it you have any aspirations to win an AI .. It leads you to believe that there really is something "fundamentally" wrong in the Mayo mentality at this stage which is subconsciously stopping them for kicking on and winning this damn thing !!! I liked James Horan, he did a lot right but he wasnt a great/good tactician, I believe this new fella is no better .. Some terrible decisions 2 weeks in a row (just as Horan did last year) which everyone know about so I wont repeat .. But Jeez it must madden a lot of Mayo people to see them not pushing up on Cluxton enough and to see AOS totally undersued .. that 2 weeks in a row he's been a peripheral figure .. He's better than that !! Mayo need an outside manager .. I would nearly guarantee that Jim McGuinness would have them winning an AI within 2 years.. They need someone who can change their mentality completely and stop the ridiculous capitulation that will otherwise inevitably happen at some stage of their run... its their MENTALITY which is their biggest downfall .... If I was from Mayo and considering our past record in AI's I would have been pretty bemused to see AOS walking off the field yesterday in a Dublin jersey ... Simply Flabbergasted MDMA made some difference when he came on and when the hell did Paddy Andrews get so good .. he's been brilliant over the last 2 weeks .. I seem to remember that he couldnt get on that team for years !! Also, McMahon is a damn site better player than I though .. had a very good game yesterday.. I believe this is possibly bad news for Kerry though as even if Mayo had scraped past the Dubs yesterday they probably still would have capitulated to you guys in the final .. I dont believe Dublin will do that and the 2 games will have brought them on heaps, just as it did for you guys last year .. Dublin to win the AI now ... Well I'm 70% sure on that anyway !!! .. ok, maybe 60% Dermot I think Tyrone would have beaten Mayo is the semi final pairings had thrown that up. Do you? Yeah MM there were quite a few lads up here saying just that on Saturday after the game .. And to be honest, if they'd played with the same tactics (i.e. not pushing up on our keeper) then I'd say we probably would have .. Mind you, Dublin took their goal chances .. would we have? ... thats why I think we need a couple of new forwards as well as a few other personnel to get to the very top again.. Hopefully a few more of the U21 lads can slot in.. BTW - I'm back to thinking "Kerry will beat Dublin" again ... I cant see Kerry giving Dublin and Cluxton a free hand on the kickouts ... How that pans out could well be the deciding factor and I just dont see Kerry allowing that as Dublin are pretty hot from that scenario..
|
|
|
Post by wayupnorth on Sept 8, 2015 19:09:33 GMT
Dermot I think Tyrone would have beaten Mayo is the semi final pairings had thrown that up. Do you? Yeah MM there were quite a few lads up here saying just that on Saturday after the game .. And to be honest, if they'd played with the same tactics (i.e. not pushing up on our keeper) then I'd say we probably would have .. Mind you, Dublin took their goal chances .. would we have? ... thats why I think we need a couple of new forwards as well as a few other personnel to get to the very top again.. Hopefully a few more of the U21 lads can slot in.. BTW - I'm back to thinking "Kerry will beat Dublin" again ... I cant see Kerry giving Dublin and Cluxton a free hand on the kickouts ... How that pans out could well be the deciding factor and I just dont see Kerry allowing that as Dublin are pretty hot from that scenario.. When Dublin went level after a four point deficit, Mayo fell to pieces; when Tyrone went level after a four point deficit we pushed on to win by four. So yes, I think Tyrone would now be in the final if they had met Mayo rather than us. Thanks for the vote of confidence Dermot, I think your predictions so far this year have been spot on!
|
|
|
Post by Ballyfireside on Sept 8, 2015 20:15:39 GMT
I think SO'6 was a Black as it was intentional and it went on, it was cynical and he put the Dub to the floor, just what was SO'6 thinking? The provoking shoulder in the back might have been a Yellow, so should the ref make an allowance for SO'6 and give him Yellow? It is not easy but SO'6 can't complain and that is the chance you take when you engage in violent behaviour in view of hundreds of thousands of spectators. There was an All Ireland medal at stake and the game hung in the balance. Discipline, you'd only pity them at this stage, moreover knowing they had the ammo. Jim McGuinness has an exceptional analysis in the Irish Times today, he really fleshes it out, an here, I'll post it below.
|
|
|
Post by Ballyfireside on Sept 8, 2015 20:26:44 GMT
For those who like indepth analysis, this one is highly recommended -
Jim McGuinness: Mayo’s game plan came up short at crucial moment
Dublin took advantage as Connacht champions failed to do right things to protect lead
Whenever this Mayo team lose a big championship game now, it is impossible not to feel sympathy for them. For a second consecutive summer, they have come out on the wrong side of titanic All-Ireland semi-final draws and replays which enthralled the entire country. They bring so much to the All-Ireland season. But Mayo do not want sympathy or admiration. They want an All-Ireland title.
On balance, the two best teams have made it to this year’s final. But it is no coincidence that they are also highly pragmatic and adaptable. Kerry and Dublin have learned to play it as they see it. Mayo still play the way they play and that has cost them. I believe that this Mayo team can win their All-Ireland because they have shown us repeatedly over the past four summers that they are almost there. But will they? This is a more delicate question.
It should be acknowledged that Saturday’s match was a marvellous game of football. The referee, Eddie Kinsella, officiated really well, except for the black card he issued to Seamus O’Shea. I felt that it was a wrong interpretation of the rule and that it ought to have been a yellow card. In my opinion, he didn’t cynically take the Dublin player to the ground. He threw him aside after an off-the ball altercation. It robbed Mayo of a critically important midfield figure and it is a shame that the black card, which has been prone to consistently problematic interpretations, can have such major bearing on a match of this magnitude.
However, it wasn’t the factor that swung the game either way. I didn’t think that this match hinged upon a Mayo collapse. Nor did I feel that it was a story of a brilliant Dublin revival. My sense was that overall, the system with which Mayo tried to win the All-Ireland this year was not viable over 70 minutes against the very top teams.
For me, there were two glaring issues about Mayo’s performance the last day. The first concerned the way in which they used Barry Moran.
Playing Barry as sweeper worked a treat against Donegal and it would have been suitable, too, if they were playing Kerry in the final given the type of threat which Kieran Donaghy presents. But Dublin’s attack is so fast paced and dynamic. They stretch the play inside by placing their two full forwards 30 plus metres apart. So they create a lot of space for themselves and it seems to me that Barry is not built for that role; he doesn’t cover the ground at pace and is a very big man to ask to shuffle back and forth across the park for 70 minutes.
So how using him in that role translated to shutting down Dublin’s attack is something I’m not sure about. In the drawn game, Dublin squeezed the middle third of the pitch very successfully. But on Saturday they went with a very high press with a view to forcing turnovers closer to the Mayo goal. But Mayo have such good ball carriers that when they eventually worked the ball through that Dublin cover, they found the space to kick some wonderful points over the opening half, which was just a really enjoyable shootout.
Mayo looked assured. That relentless spirit was at full tilt because they had a bit more space. Again, they seemed caught in two minds about the Stephen Cluxton factor. At times they pushed up on the Dublin kick-out but they didn’t fully commit to it either. They didn’t try a tight man-to-man press or even push a few extra bodies in to force the long kick out and make it a war of attrition around the midfield sector. And Cluxton is just too good to be beaten by a conservative press. It has to be all out. And I felt that was significant.
I thought as well that Mayo could have got the best of both worlds out of Barry Moran. What I mean by that is that in open play, Barry plays full forward and someone like Kevin McLoughlin or Diarmuid O’Connor plays sweeper - agile guys who have the aerobic capacity of Kenyan middle distance runners. So now you have Aidan O’Shea and Moran inside. I feel that pairing had the potential to cause consternation in the Dublin full back line. Then you have Cillian O’Connor at the top of the D where he can thrive because the Dublin full backs would have been forced to break the ball anywhere they could. Cillian is a fantastic player and a great placed-ball kicker but Aidan O’Shea was being asked to lead the Mayo attack by himself. He was their primary ball winner. Dublin had a detailed game plan to cope with Aidan O’Shea. They knew how Mayo were going to set up and it was all too comfortable for the Dublin defence. They had practiced this over and over at training and they weren’t asked to adapt. Having Moran alongside O’Shea would have changed that.
And for Mayo’s kick-out, they could have brought Barry out to midfield. Dublin were pushing up on Rob Hennelly’s kick-out with one hundred per cent intent to try and force turnovers. By taking Barry Moran to the middle of the park, Mayo would have had a third option along with O’Shea and Tom Parsons.
Why didn’t they do this? The short answer is I don’t know. Barry Moran scored a point from play which illustrated his role: he was going from midfield, trying to get forward and then dropping back to sweep on his own 21 and then back to the middle. It was a very demanding role and one more suited to Keith Higgins or McLoughlin - those guys who just travel over ground at speed and with ease. I thought that maybe Mayo were holding the option of Moran-as-full-forward until they really needed it. But when they did need to abruptly change things - after Philly McMahon scored Dublin’s second goal and Mayo’s season was going up in smoke - Barry Moran had been substituted.
For all that, Mayo got to the point where they had Dublin on the ropes. They came desperately close here. They were 15 minutes from home. I think if Lee Keegan’s shot which fell short had been a point, Dublin could have gone away. Just prior to that, they hand passed the ball to feet on four or five occasions and the ball was turned over by Mayo. Dublin were beginning to run out of ideas.
Brian Fenton’s run which created Bernard Brogan’s goal was a defining moment and illustrated what I see as the weakness in Mayo’s overall approach. Cillian O’Connor was marking Fenton and didn’t track his run. I felt that was symptomatic of the Mayo system in general. They play a great brand of football and are very exciting to watch. And I’m not suggesting they are not conscious or diligent when it comes to defence; far from it.
It’s just that they don’t appear have a clear idea of what they wanted to do once they built their lead. When you are four points up with 15 to go against a team like Dublin, what is to stop you saying: let’s defend this with our lives? They had worked themselves into a wonderful position. The general view is that All-Ireland teams contain marquee forwards. Dublin and Kerry clearly have those in abundance. If you are playing those teams and your team has a very good forward unit but not quite the same calibre as the opposition, then you have to compensate in other areas or else you will be caught.
Rather than going toe-to-toe with a team of high calibre attackers, Mayo could have been cute and clinical and resolved to see the game out. Look at what Dublin did to control the match once they got the few goals: they played keep ball with 25 passes - lateral, backwards, forwards, they didn’t care. They wanted to kill the game. They wanted to suck the Mayo team out and create the space. As it happened, that led to Kevin McManamon’s goal which completed the reversal in momentum. But Mayo did facilitate it in allowing Dublin to attack as they did. If you come with the mentality that nothing goes through the middle, Fenton’s run doesn’t happen. I would suggest that is not being preached night after night at training.
Mayo might have got away with it against any team other than Dublin. Once again we saw that the attacking instinct of the Dubs is phenomenal. The game changed because Dublin were able to manipulate its direction with their substitutions. You have to acknowledge the decisiveness of the Dublin management here. Yet again, the resolve of their team was seriously tested by Mayo. But they responded
Dublin looked more defensive than offensive at times in the drawn match but on Sunday they were back to what they were doing in 2013. There was a stage when I felt the high press wasn’t working for them in that the turnovers weren’t coming for them. It was an ambitious shift in approach and it looked like they had moved too much in a week. But their response to O’Connor’s goal was decisive and brave.
Paul Flynn, a four-time All-Star, was pulled just when the alarm bells were ringing. Johnny Cooper likewise. McManamon brought a totally different dynamic to the game. Michael Darragh Macauley did the same at midfield and Alan Brogan brought all that experience and class that he has to the full forward line. These changes brought about the dramatic shift in approach and possession and to Dublin’s cutting edge, which enabled them to turn the match on its head in five minutes. People talk about the options that Jim Gavin has at his disposal and this was a perfect example. But he still had to make the switches. The ironic thing is that the players taken off will be absolutely ravenous to prove themselves over the next fortnight while the guys who went in will be pushing to start. So it leaves them in a very healthy position. Add to that the five points from play by Paddy Andrews and another good display from Ciaran Kilkenny and it means that Dublin are beginning to bloom at the right time.
Where are Mayo at? It is three years since we played them in the All-Ireland final and I don’t think anything major has changed in their overall approach in that period of time. In Donegal, we created a game plan because we knew where we were at in relation to the big teams in the country. We had to do things and be creative - on and off the field. Mayo are going toe-to-toe with Dublin and Kerry and Cork year after year and they are trying to man up and take these teams on in out-and-out football contests. It is a noble aspiration. But the reality is: they don’t have the range of forwards to do that.
I believe this Mayo team can win an All-Ireland because they are so close to doing it with the approach that they have. They came close in 2012, 2013, 2014 and on Sunday, I believe they were just one more point away from returning to the All-Ireland final.
But they need to start squeezing percentages in these games in their favour and to know when to try and kill the game and develop the kind of pragmatism that both of this year’s All-Ireland finalists have.
It is a game of fine margins.
If you look at what Kerry have done in the last few years: they have changed significantly to adapt to the prevailing environment. Dublin have changed since last summer. I feel that if Mayo could have just held steady for the six or seven minutes after Dublin sent in their substitutes, they would have made it. Just protect that lead; slow the game down and all of a sudden time is against Dublin. But that question was never asked.
Will Mayo win one? I don’t know. The age profile, the football ability, their unbelievable honesty, their midfield, their athleticism: they have so much going for them. But it is not quite enough. They need to box clever. If Mayo can introduce that tactical flexibility to their approach to next season, then they can still win the All-Ireland medals that this team deserves.
|
|
|
Post by Mickmack on Sept 8, 2015 20:32:37 GMT
Jim's articles are exceptional
|
|
fitz
Fanatical Member
Red sky at night get off my land
Posts: 1,719
|
Post by fitz on Sept 8, 2015 21:51:13 GMT
Jim's articles are exceptional Beautifully constructed and sequenced. It's clear again that Mayo had the control to the winning of this, at 54 mins only to pick their own pockets
|
|
|
Post by Dermot on Sept 9, 2015 12:29:33 GMT
Yeah MM there were quite a few lads up here saying just that on Saturday after the game .. And to be honest, if they'd played with the same tactics (i.e. not pushing up on our keeper) then I'd say we probably would have .. Mind you, Dublin took their goal chances .. would we have? ... thats why I think we need a couple of new forwards as well as a few other personnel to get to the very top again.. Hopefully a few more of the U21 lads can slot in.. BTW - I'm back to thinking "Kerry will beat Dublin" again ... I cant see Kerry giving Dublin and Cluxton a free hand on the kickouts ... How that pans out could well be the deciding factor and I just dont see Kerry allowing that as Dublin are pretty hot from that scenario.. When Dublin went level after a four point deficit, Mayo fell to pieces; when Tyrone went level after a four point deficit we pushed on to win by four. So yes, I think Tyrone would now be in the final if they had met Mayo rather than us. Thanks for the vote of confidence Dermot, I think your predictions so far this year have been spot on! Well WayUpNorth, my predictions have been ok apart from thinking Mayo would win the whole thing this year .. Fooled again I was lol ... I'd be pulling my hair out now if I was from Mayo .. I dont know how they cope the poor feckers
|
|
|
Post by mayo4sam on Sept 21, 2015 2:24:50 GMT
As i was walking in tomthe ground today wearing my kerry shirt accompanied by my two Dublin supporting girls a mayo lad in his 20's attempted to hit me with a shoulder. He missed...summed up their day. I hope he was proud of himself Well well sullyschoice looks like ye missed plenty of shoulders today yourselves tut tut. At least we gave them a game. Your arrogance was found out. Dublin were by far the better team.
|
|
Derek
Senior Member
Posts: 456
|
Post by Derek on Sept 21, 2015 7:37:03 GMT
As i was walking in tomthe ground today wearing my kerry shirt accompanied by my two Dublin supporting girls a mayo lad in his 20's attempted to hit me with a shoulder. He missed...summed up their day. I hope he was proud of himself Well well sullyschoice looks like ye missed plenty of shoulders today yourselves tut tut. At least we gave them a game. Your arrogance was found out. Dublin were by far the better team. Don't know how maths is taught in Mayo but where I went to school 3 is less than 7. So Mayo lost to Dublin by 7 points and Kerry lost by 3 yet in your esteemed opinion ye gave them a game??? Little wonder ye are waiting over 50 years for sam if ye brag about loosing a semi final by 7 points!!
|
|
|
Post by sullyschoice on Sept 21, 2015 7:53:46 GMT
As i was walking in tomthe ground today wearing my kerry shirt accompanied by my two Dublin supporting girls a mayo lad in his 20's attempted to hit me with a shoulder. He missed...summed up their day. I hope he was proud of himself Well well sullyschoice looks like ye missed plenty of shoulders today yourselves tut tut. At least we gave them a game. Your arrogance was found out. Dublin were by far the better team. Jog on, you stupid child. Come back when you discover a semblance of a spine in any of your football teams.
|
|
|
Post by wayupnorth on Sept 21, 2015 8:36:10 GMT
Well well sullyschoice looks like ye missed plenty of shoulders today yourselves tut tut. At least we gave them a game. Your arrogance was found out. Dublin were by far the better team. Don't know how maths is taught in Mayo but where I went to school 3 is less than 7. So Mayo lost to Dublin by 7 points and Kerry lost by 3 yet in your esteemed opinion ye gave them a game??? Little wonder ye are waiting over 50 years for sam if ye brag about loosing a semi final by 7 points!! Have to say (much as I hate to say it) that Mayo did give them a better game than we did and if it were not for that they might not be where they are today. But Mayo4sam is showing the usual pure class in turning up this morning with this comment. We weren't arrogant but there's nothing wrong with arrogance in its proper place. Honest arrogance is better than hypocritical humility.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Sept 21, 2015 8:54:00 GMT
Who cares whether kerry or mayo gave dublin a tougher game? In fact, lets give mayo this one, I say it is a great honour.
|
|
|
Post by mayo4sam on Sept 21, 2015 10:28:41 GMT
Well well sullyschoice looks like ye missed plenty of shoulders today yourselves tut tut. At least we gave them a game. Your arrogance was found out. Dublin were by far the better team. Jog on, you stupid child. Come back when you discover a semblance of a spine in any of your football teams. Good ladeen Sully, suppose some young dub threw a shoulder into ya as you left croke park yesterday. Id say you had as big a puss on ya as bryan sheehan
|
|
|
Post by mayo4sam on Sept 21, 2015 10:30:47 GMT
Don't know how maths is taught in Mayo but where I went to school 3 is less than 7. So Mayo lost to Dublin by 7 points and Kerry lost by 3 yet in your esteemed opinion ye gave them a game??? Little wonder ye are waiting over 50 years for sam if ye brag about loosing a semi final by 7 points!! Have to say (much as I hate to say it) that Mayo did give them a better game than we did and if it were not for that they might not be where they are today. But Mayo4sam is showing the usual pure class in turning up this morning with this comment. We weren't arrogant but there's nothing wrong with arrogance in its proper place. Honest arrogance is better than hypocritical humility. Wayupnorth, my comments were directed at sully not the majority of kerry supporters. He gave plenty when Mayo were beat by the dubs.
|
|
|
Post by mayo4sam on Sept 21, 2015 10:32:12 GMT
Well well sullyschoice looks like ye missed plenty of shoulders today yourselves tut tut. At least we gave them a game. Your arrogance was found out. Dublin were by far the better team. Don't know how maths is taught in Mayo but where I went to school 3 is less than 7. So Mayo lost to Dublin by 7 points and Kerry lost by 3 yet in your esteemed opinion ye gave them a game??? Little wonder ye are waiting over 50 years for sam if ye brag about loosing a semi final by 7 points!! At least we drew with the dubs the first day!! Did PaddyPOwer make a few quid of ya?
|
|