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Post by kerrygold on Jul 12, 2015 22:40:23 GMT
Dubs looked far from good today, that is the kind of game that can suck form out of a team. The Dubs could be vulnerable for their quarter final tie. If Cork close out the deal next weekend the cat will be firmly thrown among the pigeons. Westmeath, nor any other team in Leinster, never really tested the Dubs and still for long periods of the game it looked like Westmeath would stay close to them. Two quick goals was the real difference as apart from those Westmeath stayed very close. Dublin's defensive system was rushed and chaotic despite only conceding a few points. If Dublin are drawn against Tyrone in the Quarter Final I would fancy Tyrone if Dublin play like today. To no fault of their own Dublin are just not being tested at all and go into a quarter final completely unprepared. Tyrone wont beat Dublin in the quarter finals, Donegal or Kerry might but it would be very difficult to call.
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Post by Mickmack on Jul 12, 2015 23:36:45 GMT
Did hawkeye malfunction again today. A Dub point was give a "NIL" even though the red yoke went inside the post (it seemed to me)
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Post by Seoirse Ui Duic on Jul 12, 2015 23:57:49 GMT
Did hawkeye malfunction again today. A Dub point was give a "NIL" even though the red yoke went inside the post (it seemed to me) It looked like it went partly over the post in which case it is programmed to signal a wide.
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Post by onlykerry on Jul 13, 2015 8:02:50 GMT
Tipp will have a "big" welcome for Tyrone in Thurles (I presume) next weekend after their recent crossing of swords in the U21's. Home advantage and the U21 incentive could make this an interesting encounter.
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Hicser
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Post by Hicser on Jul 13, 2015 8:05:38 GMT
It would be great to have another Munster team get to the last 8, assuming Cork or Kerry can take care of Kildare, It is a huge game for tips, real test of where they are,
When was the last time we had 3 teams get to the last 8 if ever?
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Jigz84
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Post by Jigz84 on Jul 13, 2015 8:10:01 GMT
Dubs looked far from good today, that is the kind of game that can suck form out of a team. The Dubs could be vulnerable for their quarter final tie. If Cork close out the deal next weekend the cat will be firmly thrown among the pigeons. Westmeath, nor any other team in Leinster, never really tested the Dubs and still for long periods of the game it looked like Westmeath would stay close to them. Two quick goals was the real difference as apart from those Westmeath stayed very close. Dublin's defensive system was rushed and chaotic despite only conceding a few points. If Dublin are drawn against Tyrone in the Quarter Final I would fancy Tyrone if Dublin play like today. To no fault of their own Dublin are just not being tested at all and go into a quarter final completely unprepared. Dublin cannot draw Tyrone in the Quarter Finals, only the winner of Kildare v Loser of Cork/Kerry or winner of Westmeath v Fermanagh but only if Fermanagh win.
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Post by baurtregaum on Jul 13, 2015 8:37:52 GMT
I suspect that Jim Gavin will be quietly pleased that the Dubs were below par. Hype will be dampened and he can deal with any over confidence within the squad. It would make sense not to reveal too much to Kerry/Cork in a non event game. They are primed for the three big games that are going to matter.
Anthony Moyles and Wooly were bemoaning the state of the Leinster championship on newstalk. It is now a procession for Dublin and of no value to anyone. Cluxton picked up bis eleventh medal Yesterday.
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Hicser
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Post by Hicser on Jul 13, 2015 8:49:48 GMT
I suspect that Jim Gavin will be quietly pleased that the Dubs were below par. Hype will be dampened and he can deal with any over confidence within the squad. It would make sense not to reveal too much to Kerry/Cork in a non event game. They are primed for the three big games that are going to matter. Anthony Moyles and Wooly were bemoaning the state of the Leinster championship on newstalk. It is now a procession for Dublin and of no value to anyone. Cluxton picked up bis eleventh medal Yesterday. The should bring Dublin in to Munster to give them a match
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Jigz84
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Post by Jigz84 on Jul 13, 2015 9:09:57 GMT
Roscommon are the flakiest team in Ireland but Evans did them no favour whatsoever this Summer. First talking them up as potential All-Ireland winners in the next few years, and then getting involved in a silly spat with Parkinson on Newstalk.
He may be a good coach but not a good manager, and once again has flattered to deceive in the Championship.
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Post by kerrygold on Jul 13, 2015 9:12:45 GMT
Roscommon are the flakiest team in Ireland but Evans did them no favour whatsoever this Summer. First talking them up as potential All-Ireland winners in the next few years, and then getting involved in a silly spat with Parkinson on Newstalk. He may be a good coach but not a good manager, and once again has flattered to deceive in the Championship. The Cake will be burning in the oven after this recent defeat....................
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Post by jackiel on Jul 13, 2015 9:14:43 GMT
I asked one of the Dublin players yesterday if they'd take a couple of days to kick back after the win, his answer was "not after that, no way". Some of the players seemed very dissatisfied with their personal performances.
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Post by kerrygold on Jul 13, 2015 9:17:45 GMT
I asked one of the Dublin players yesterday if they'd take a couple of days to kick back after the win, his answer was "not after that, no way". Some of the players seemed very dissatisfied with their personal performances. They should be.
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hugh20
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Post by hugh20 on Jul 13, 2015 10:29:48 GMT
Paul Flynn, normally an extremely consistent performer and a brilliant footballer, was extremely disappointing. What I thought was disappointing was his decision making and it was evident that his frustration reached boiling point when he lunged in late to get a yellow card. Sometimes players may have an off day kicking, this happens and is understandable. But what would concern me is the positions of the field from where the attempts were coming from, he should have the knowledge to recycle the ball to better positions when playing against a blanket defence. It also thought me a thing or two about Jim Gavin. Flynn would have been substituted under the management of Eamonn Fitz or Cody but Jim Gavin failed to replace him when he really should have been called a shore early in the second half.
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Post by Seoirse Ui Duic on Jul 13, 2015 11:26:27 GMT
Westmeath, nor any other team in Leinster, never really tested the Dubs and still for long periods of the game it looked like Westmeath would stay close to them. Two quick goals was the real difference as apart from those Westmeath stayed very close. Dublin's defensive system was rushed and chaotic despite only conceding a few points. If Dublin are drawn against Tyrone in the Quarter Final I would fancy Tyrone if Dublin play like today. To no fault of their own Dublin are just not being tested at all and go into a quarter final completely unprepared. Dublin cannot draw Tyrone in the Quarter Finals, only the winner of Kildare v Loser of Cork/Kerry or winner of Westmeath v Fermanagh but only if Fermanagh win. Sorry, didn't look that far into the draws etc yet. I thought they could. So potentially Dublin are going into the semi finals not tested at all?
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Post by Seoirse Ui Duic on Jul 13, 2015 11:30:15 GMT
Dublin now come in flying under the radar a bit after yesterday's performance and that can only be good for them. But despite all the mind games one thing still stands and that is that Dublin can't cope with packed defences and the top teams in the country all know how to do that. For all the class in Dublin's attack, their main weakness still seems to be that they panic if they can't blow teams away.
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Post by Annascaultilidie on Jul 13, 2015 11:36:47 GMT
Dublin now come in flying under the radar a bit after yesterday's performance and that can only be good for them. How can you claim that a team that are odds-on favourites with 14 teams remaining are in any way "under the radar" !!
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Post by kerrygold on Jul 13, 2015 12:28:46 GMT
If you shut down Cluxton, Connolly and Brogan, defend well (e.g. Westmeath yesterday) and bring some semblance of an attacking blueprint to the mix the top 2-4 teams will know they can beat Dublin on a given day. The Dubs will also know they will have it all to do to close the door on the Donegal performance last year. That is a powerful message for Kerry, Donegal and Mayo to be churning around in their heads. The bookies odds on the Dubs to win the All-Ireland might begin to seem a little bit out if kilter as the season evolves. A given for Dublin to win the All-Ireland at this point in time is ridiculous.
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Post by skybluezone on Jul 13, 2015 13:06:33 GMT
Paul Flynn, normally an extremely consistent performer and a brilliant footballer, was extremely disappointing. What I thought was disappointing was his decision making and it was evident that his frustration reached boiling point when he lunged in late to get a yellow card. Sometimes players may have an off day kicking, this happens and is understandable. But what would concern me is the positions of the field from where the attempts were coming from, he should have the knowledge to recycle the ball to better positions when playing against a blanket defence. It also thought me a thing or two about Jim Gavin. Flynn would have been substituted under the management of Eamonn Fitz or Cody but Jim Gavin failed to replace him when he really should have been called a shore early in the second half.[/quote] Totally agree with this, although there were at least 3 forwards who could have been hooked yesterday. Rock, Kev Mc, and Flynn were the prime candidates, and Brogan nor Kilkenny weren't any better than 6/10. Couldn't believe Flynn stayed on for 70. Maybe thats what 4 allstars in a row buys you.
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Jigz84
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Posts: 2,017
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Post by Jigz84 on Jul 13, 2015 13:11:21 GMT
Paul Flynn, normally an extremely consistent performer and a brilliant footballer, was extremely disappointing. What I thought was disappointing was his decision making and it was evident that his frustration reached boiling point when he lunged in late to get a yellow card. Sometimes players may have an off day kicking, this happens and is understandable. But what would concern me is the positions of the field from where the attempts were coming from, he should have the knowledge to recycle the ball to better positions when playing against a blanket defence. It also thought me a thing or two about Jim Gavin. Flynn would have been substituted under the management of Eamonn Fitz or Cody but Jim Gavin failed to replace him when he really should have been called a shore early in the second half.[/quote] Totally agree with this, although there were at least 3 forwards who could have been hooked yesterday. Rock, Kev Mc, and Flynn were the prime candidates, and Brogan nor Kilkenny weren't any better than 6/10. Couldn't believe Flynn stayed on for 70. Maybe thats what 4 allstars in a row buys you. To be fair Skybluezone, Flynn needs game time IMO, probably the reason he was kept on. Rock was taken off with 20 minutes to go, I still think he's better coming off the bench. Brogan scored a divine point late on, fielded a high ball, turned and hooked it over, class. O'Gara may yet prove to be a big loss to ye though.
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Post by skybluezone on Jul 13, 2015 13:16:51 GMT
If you shut down Cluxton, Connolly and Brogan, defend well (e.g. Westmeath yesterday) and bring some semblance of an attacking blueprint to the mix the top 2-4 teams will know they can beat Dublin on a given day. The Dubs will also know they will have it all to do to close the door on the Donegal performance last year. That is a powerful message for Kerry, Donegal and Mayo to be churning around in their heads. The bookies odds on the Dubs to win the All-Ireland might begin to seem a little bit out if kilter as the season evolves. A given for Dublin to win the All-Ireland at this point in time is ridiculous. If if if....if the queen had balls.... If teams are concentrating on stopping Dublin that much, eg Donegal planning it for 8 months last year, it's a huge compliment to Dublin. Hasn't happened that much in the history of GAA I would suggest. Second, if other teams go this route they need to be mindful of the fact that every game then becomes a minefield for them. You boys know that too well after Kerry were blessed to get away with it last Sunday week. And so do Donegal after they took their eye off the ball after last years semi, they thought the hard work was done. If and when Kerry Mayo or Donegal are not tuned in to the opposition when they get to play against each other they will be out on their arses sharpish. Also, Donegal's romp through Ulster is looking less impressive by the day. Armagh were shown by Galway to have feet of clay so that puts Donegals performance against them in context. Monaghan will serve it up to them in the Ulster final me thinks.
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hugh20
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Post by hugh20 on Jul 13, 2015 13:53:15 GMT
Yes I think it's too simple to say if you shut down this and that player then you will win or have a chance. Connolly, Cluxton and Brogan are 3 of the best players of their generation. Paul Flynn is also in this category. Kevin McManamon has shown us on a few occasions just how dangerous he can be. MD McAuley is a former FOTY. James McCarthy Philly McMahon and McCaffrey are top quality. So shutting all these down does not come easy. Kerry and the other contenders also have many players to shut down that it would just be too simple to say "If you shut out James, Gooch etc." then you win the game. I do feel that Dublin hold more aces in their pack than the rest, they are a formidable outfit and are deservedly favourites IMO. However, if they were beaten it would not be a major surprise either.
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Post by kerrygold on Jul 13, 2015 14:20:09 GMT
Cluxton, Connolly and Brogan are the three main points of contact on the Dublin team. If if if you want knock a bridge you target the mainstays.
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Post by kerrygold on Jul 13, 2015 14:21:49 GMT
Yes I think it's too simple to say if you shut down this and that player then you will win or have a chance. Connolly, Cluxton and Brogan are 3 of the best players of their generation. Paul Flynn is also in this category. Kevin McManamon has shown us on a few occasions just how dangerous he can be. MD McAuley is a former FOTY. James McCarthy Philly McMahon and McCaffrey are top quality. So shutting all these down does not come easy. Kerry and the other contenders also have many players to shut down that it would just be too simple to say "If you shut out James, Gooch etc." then you win the game. I do feel that Dublin hold more aces in their pack than the rest, they are a formidable outfit and are deservedly favourites IMO. However, if they were beaten it would not be a major surprise either. Maybe I'm hallucinating, but I don't think the gooch played championship football in 2014 and I don't remember JOD playing in a forward position in the 2014 All-Ireland final.
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Post by Seoirse Ui Duic on Jul 13, 2015 14:36:06 GMT
Dublin now come in flying under the radar a bit after yesterday's performance and that can only be good for them. How can you claim that a team that are odds-on favourites with 14 teams remaining are in any way "under the radar" !! The big hype about how Dublin just walk over teams and blow them away seems to have died down a bit. A lot of the media write about how poor they were and they were, despite winning comfortably. Even the dog on the streets knows they won't win anything if they play like yesterday. But that same dog also knows that they can only play what's in front of them and they never even had to shine yesterday. Apart from a purple patch resulting in two quick goals it seemed like a stroll in the park or a Monday evening training session. They are, deservedly, still favourites, but only if they up their game next time out. Can't be easy to stay motivated though if all their games are won by big numbers without even trying too hard.
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Post by jackeensabhog on Jul 13, 2015 14:39:44 GMT
Dublin now come in flying under the radar a bit after yesterday's performance and that can only be good for them. But despite all the mind games one thing still stands and that is that Dublin can't cope with packed defences and the top teams in the country all know how to do that. For all the class in Dublin's attack, their main weakness still seems to be that they panic if they can't blow teams away. The perceived wisdom is that Dublin can't cope with the blanket defence, based on what happened in last year's semi final. Outside of that, they have only lost one other game to blanket defence in the last three seasons. That was against Tyrone in the 2013 league, who they subsequently beat in that years league final. In this year's league, they beat donegal, monaghan(twice) and drew with Tyrone. Dublin struggling with the West meath blanket defence is open to question since they scored 2-16. What county deals easily with a good blanket defence? Kerry and mayo were both beaten by the blanket defence in 2012. Kerry squeezed by donegal last year by adopting a similar set up and the help of a very soft goal. Truth is that any team will struggle with a good blanket defence. Do you remember mayo v roscommon last summer?
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Post by Seoirse Ui Duic on Jul 13, 2015 15:01:21 GMT
I totally agree with that Jackeensabhog. I should hit myself for saying it, but Brolly was right when he said: the blanket defence is the great leveller. A blanket defence means that you limit the damage the other team does. A blanket is not the all and end all though as plenty of teams discovered the last few years. It means the opposition scores little, but if you don't score yourself even a little is enough to win a game. It leads to horror shows like the Tyrone-Meath this weekend where nothing happens for 25 minutes but just two teams stopping the other from attacking. In the second half Tyrone changed tactics and countered fast and hard and Meath could not keep their defensive shape without fouling. My main worry for Dublin is that they know how to stop that counter and they are very capable of scoring from further out, scraping past teams opting for a blanket, but if a team like Donegal, or even Cork, Mayo or Kerry, would deploy their blanket and react on the counter Dublin struggle as unlike the "weaker counties" most top teams also have a top class attacking strategy. Dublin's undoing in the past when facing massed defences was, in my opinion, that they used too many players going forward trying to create a score and that lead to scoring opportunities for the opposition. When facing mass defences patience comes into play and percentages. Donegal are masters at accepting that a game can end 0-06 to 0-07 if they are the team that wins by a point. Even if it means not a single score from play, but 7 frees, a win is a win. I feel that patience is still lacking in Dublin and they often rush and try to score from further out. Look at the amount of wides Donegal have and you'll see what I mean. Kerry have been guilty at rushing and impatience as well I admit, but we're learning. No doubt Dublin will learn as well and maybe they already have.
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Post by Annascaultilidie on Jul 13, 2015 15:04:28 GMT
The only team that consistently win with a "blanket defense" are Donegal and they have serious players throughout their team.
On the whole, it is pretty clear to me that the "blanket defence" is a losing proposition.
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hugh20
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Post by hugh20 on Jul 13, 2015 15:06:15 GMT
Yes I think it's too simple to say if you shut down this and that player then you will win or have a chance. Connolly, Cluxton and Brogan are 3 of the best players of their generation. Paul Flynn is also in this category. Kevin McManamon has shown us on a few occasions just how dangerous he can be. MD McAuley is a former FOTY. James McCarthy Philly McMahon and McCaffrey are top quality. So shutting all these down does not come easy. Kerry and the other contenders also have many players to shut down that it would just be too simple to say "If you shut out James, Gooch etc." then you win the game. I do feel that Dublin hold more aces in their pack than the rest, they are a formidable outfit and are deservedly favourites IMO. However, if they were beaten it would not be a major surprise either. Maybe I'm hallucinating, but I don't think the gooch played championship football in 2014 and I don't remember JOD playing in a forward position in the 2014 All-Ireland final. Who said anything about JOD playing in a forward position in the All Ireland final? And similarly about Gooch playing last year. I was giving the example that it is too simple to turn around and say that a team will have a chance if they mark the opponents marquee players. Sometimes a deadly combination are unstoppable. The closest I can think of at the moment would be Messi, Neymar and Suarez and I know it is a different sport but there are similarities in the context of this example. They are marquee players mainly because they are unmarkable when in top form. Connolly at the moment is a stereotypical example, if you get too tight to him he can spin you and leave you for dead. If you stand off him he will sail the ball over from 40 yards, if you focus on one foot he will dummy solo onto his "weaker" foot and sail the ball over also. Teams cannot afford to double or treble team him because Dublin have quality all over the field. He is unmarkable when hes in top form, likewise with JOD, likewise with Gooch when he was fully fit and many more alike.
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Post by southward on Jul 13, 2015 17:39:30 GMT
I asked one of the Dublin players yesterday if they'd take a couple of days to kick back after the win, his answer was "not after that, no way". Some of the players seemed very dissatisfied with their personal performances. They should be. Missed the first half yesterday, but from what I saw, it would be hard to criticize any Dublin player for not raising a gallop yesterday. Second half was like a Goal Challenge; fellas were literally standing around playing the ball ffs. Westmeath had long since given up and Dublin performances have to be appraised in that context.
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Post by donegalman on Jul 14, 2015 0:04:26 GMT
Even though they have sauntered through their province once again, it is still to early to assess how Dublin are shaping up. They look fantastic. They are a great unit. But in fairness, you cant judge them on what they have played so far. Longford were miserable in the extreme, a division 4 team. Kildare rolled over after 5 minutes. They literally did. Westmeath put it up to them for about 25 minutes, and they showed good resolve until the goals went in. But they were never going to stay within 10 points of Dublin imo.
So what should we say about them on the limited evidence that we have of them so far?
Connolly is the main switch of the team. Kilkenny likewise is going to be a key man this year for them. If you can stop both these players from getting the space, and that means an inch of space, then you might have a chance against them, as MDMA is their only other play maker, and he is not as consistent as he was 2 years ago. The Brogans and Rock need the ball handed to them in order to be dangerous. If they have to go deep to get it, they are limited.
They are still the team to beat, but no team should go in and think that they have zero chance against them.
Dublin got an absolute flyer against us last year. This will not happen if we should meet them again this year. likewise, they will not get caught on the counter the way they did in the same game, so we should get an almost blank canvas to work on in terms of what to expect. Should Mayo or Kerry meet Dublin, I would expect their mid field to really put it up to Dublin and beat them there, and couple this with constantly pushing up on Cluxton, you could have a very interesting afternoon on your hands.
The notion that Dublin are a shoe in for the all ireland is folly. I would not see value in backing them at even money. The big value is in Mayo at 8/1.
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