keane
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Post by keane on Jun 29, 2015 14:50:01 GMT
He did nothing much in the final in 2013 either. So between those two games and last year he has a long way to go yet to prove himself against the best defenders. I actually think Costello, who doesn't have quite the pace of McCaffrey, is a better user of the ball overall. Different positions I know but both very direct players. I think Darran OS is similar to McCaffrey. Yeah you're right about the final as well. Definitely a guy that ought to be picked if you have some reason to think you'll be well on top, probably still questionable in a game that will be nip and tuck. It's been spoken about a lot but it's a pretty big problem for Dublin at the moment having nobody to put them under the least bit of pressure in Leinster. Kildare didn't even bother trying yesterday.
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Post by Dermot on Jun 29, 2015 17:26:43 GMT
Well done Westmeath, delighted for them and what a great last 20 minutes that was ... The only problem is that their reward for that is obviously to meet the Dubs next .. Oh dear They may get the Rosary beads out now !!
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fitz
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Post by fitz on Jun 29, 2015 23:27:58 GMT
Jaysus you hit me quick there! I had adjusted that straight away, no player is impossible to mark, what I meant was because of his pace and balance, hardly any player can stay with him. Of course Darran OS is very similar. What I noticed about DOS in recent years was defenders shunting him away, and of course massed defence. He was still impossible to prevent doing damage though, only limiting it. Quick for a Monday morning! To be fair, McCaffrey has improved this year after a ropey 2014. It's all about pace and Dubs have it in almost every line. Ye're full-back line though is still suspect, will be interesting to see if Martin can make any headway there the next day. I think you've made one of the key standout points Jig. The pace of the Dublin team is remarkable and is on every line and it is a key advantage Dublin hold collectively over Kerry. Gavin has to take the credit for the shaping and continuous fine tuning of the 15 man on pitch machine. The way they have systematically moved toward perfecting the off loads at pace is very impressive. You can't defend 1:1 successfully if your man is faster but put that offload system in as well and that's where the huge tallies are coming from. Then how do you get your scores? Diluting Cluxton is the definitive starting point. Defenders don't seem to be able to get close enough to the Cluxton target to even try and break the ball. That can be improved. Short kickouts must be shutdown. Allowing is just letting the catapult be drawn.
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Post by Mickmack on Jun 29, 2015 23:32:35 GMT
Dublin have 3 All Stars in the bag already in 2015
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Post by seaniebo on Jun 30, 2015 0:54:07 GMT
No disrespect to Kildare but looking at them yesterday you'd have to say that Dublin's C team would probably give a better account of themselves. Woeful woeful. It's incredible to think such a gap exists between Dublin and the rest in that province. Absolutely no good to Dublin whatsoever.
Rashers - In my opinion this type of match is no good for ye. Arguably the first proper test ye face may be the quarter final if not the semi final again. Obviously you can only play what's in front of you but it's a shame Leinster is so god awful. Many's the neutral who wouldn't sit down and watch 5 minutes of a drab Ulster game but give me that any day over a 'game' yesterday. It certainly can't do Dublin any good really.
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Post by kerrybhoy06 on Jun 30, 2015 5:47:05 GMT
Dublin have 3 All Stars in the bag already in 2015 Who in your opinion Mick? Cluxton starts the year on an all star and its his to lose after that- which is kinda hilarious, at this stage its ditto for Connolly. Let me qualify the above by saying that the 2 aforementioned players are easily in the very top bracket of GAA players, easily- but Cluxton is only as good as his runners/the coaching that goes in and Connolly is only doing it against mediocre teams. If Connolly wants to be considered amongst the real elite of the last 10 years then he needs to take a really big game by the scruff of the neck (like Donegal last year) and drag Dublin over the line. Michael Murphy does this about 3 times a year for Donegal and Connolly had a good 10 mins against them last year and then went missing. I want to add another point here that seems to have been missed in the light of an article by Darragh O Se recently about Luncy and his performance in the Club championship this year with him saying that its a different pace and that although he was outstanding for his club that its a much lower level- last year we had people telling us Connolly should win player of the year mainly on the back of his club performances!!!! Surely Lundy is an early contender by that logic
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Post by skybluezone on Jun 30, 2015 8:29:58 GMT
Dublin have 3 All Stars in the bag already in 2015 Who in your opinion Mick? Cluxton starts the year on an all star and its his to lose after that- which is kinda hilarious, at this stage its ditto for Connolly. Let me qualify the above by saying that the 2 aforementioned players are easily in the very top bracket of GAA players, easily- but Cluxton is only as good as his runners/the coaching that goes in and Connolly is only doing it against mediocre teams. If Connolly wants to be considered amongst the real elite of the last 10 years then he needs to take a really big game by the scruff of the neck (like Donegal last year) and drag Dublin over the line. Michael Murphy does this about 3 times a year for Donegal and Connolly had a good 10 mins against them last year and then went missing. I want to add another point here that seems to have been missed in the light of an article by Darragh O Se recently about Luncy and his performance in the Club championship this year with him saying that its a different pace and that although he was outstanding for his club that its a much lower level- last year we had people telling us Connolly should win player of the year mainly on the back of his club performances!!!! Surely Lundy is an early contender by that logic Cluxton didn't get it last year. From memory it went to Durkan who actually played the biggest single role in ensuring that Kerry won the title. So there! But I kind of agree with your logic, a bit like the Gooch always having to get one no matter how indifferent a season he had. Semi 2013, majestic first 35 mins, didn't get a look in for entire 2nd half, yet he got an all star for 35 mins of football. And ye lost! Connolly case a bit different, I'm sure last year was his first allstar. Harsh re the Donegal game, thought he was class all day, one of the few to emerge with credit. He certainly isn't in M Murphys league in terms of consistency, but this traded against watching him when he is having a good day, all grace balance and power. Beautiful to watch but a bit to go yet to be ranked as a top top player as they say on Sky
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Post by kerrybhoy06 on Jun 30, 2015 8:54:03 GMT
Who in your opinion Mick? Cluxton starts the year on an all star and its his to lose after that- which is kinda hilarious, at this stage its ditto for Connolly. Let me qualify the above by saying that the 2 aforementioned players are easily in the very top bracket of GAA players, easily- but Cluxton is only as good as his runners/the coaching that goes in and Connolly is only doing it against mediocre teams. If Connolly wants to be considered amongst the real elite of the last 10 years then he needs to take a really big game by the scruff of the neck (like Donegal last year) and drag Dublin over the line. Michael Murphy does this about 3 times a year for Donegal and Connolly had a good 10 mins against them last year and then went missing. I want to add another point here that seems to have been missed in the light of an article by Darragh O Se recently about Luncy and his performance in the Club championship this year with him saying that its a different pace and that although he was outstanding for his club that its a much lower level- last year we had people telling us Connolly should win player of the year mainly on the back of his club performances!!!! Surely Lundy is an early contender by that logic Cluxton didn't get it last year. From memory it went to Durkan who actually played the biggest single role in ensuring that Kerry won the title. So there! But I kind of agree with your logic, a bit like the Gooch always having to get one no matter how indifferent a season he had. Semi 2013, majestic first 35 mins, didn't get a look in for entire 2nd half, yet he got an all star for 35 mins of football. And ye lost! Connolly case a bit different, I'm sure last year was his first allstar. Harsh re the Donegal game, thought he was class all day, one of the few to emerge with credit. He certainly isn't in M Murphys league in terms of consistency, but this traded against watching him when he is having a good day, all grace balance and power. Beautiful to watch but a bit to go yet to be ranked as a top top player as they say on Sky I would happily put Connolly inside the top 3/4 players in the country- easily but my point is that there was one big game last year and he didnt perform like he can. The argument about his club performances vexed me greatly as that logic had never been applied in recent memory and has been dropped already this year. Agree with you on the Cluxton and Gooch similarities- I think Durkin got it last year as a pity vote in some ways. I think Cluxton's kickouts are very good but people forget that there are several keepers who could do that but dont have the same standard of runners or structure. It's way too simplistic to put it down to cluxton and you could see that his reactions on Sunday where he was getting frustrated with the runners- the movement is key- most intercounty keepers can kick it accurately
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Post by kerrygold on Jun 30, 2015 9:03:27 GMT
To be completely honest- I thought that dublin played well within themselves today. I actually don't think they came out of second gear at all for a lot of that game- they got the 3 goals and then we're just happy to keep Kildare at arms length without putting in much effort Yeah I think there was a fairly lengthy sluggish spell. Hard to know if that makes any odds in the long run, in terms of 'maintaining a performance'. I don't think any team can maintain full-on intensity from the end of the league right through the summer and still hope to be able to produce their best if they make it to late August and september. For me their major issue is lack of competitiveness in the games of course. With all due respect I can't see Westmeath providing it but you never know. Dublin would have to be flat, which is always a risk. Wmeath would have to have really looked after themselves the next couple of weeks, not just physically but in terms of mentally what they want from the rest of summer. One thing that can't be disputed is they must take massive confidence from their comeback, and it showed a real strength of heart and character. If they do better than Kildare, Meath or Laois have done in the past 2 or 3 years then it could say alot about the preparation of those teams. Certainly the decline for the other 'big two' looks like being deeper and longer lasting than I thought it would be. Meath showed no response to last year's humiliation, only adding another even worse one to it. Meath people I know or have spoken to say their coach is 'decent' but no great shakes. That brings us to Jason Ryan. At this stage, even allowing for Kildare's post-Geeser woes, and loss of cornerstone players, there is no sign that JR is any cop, at this level. Had an interesting conversation with a guy last week, probably an echo of a conversation on here or another forum, about some common factors/people in certain teams doing well/better over the last decade or more. Two stood out - Paul Grimley and Niall Carew. If Armagh don't improve a good bit in the qualifiers we can almost certainly say Grimley brings vital things to coaching that Geeser and others just don't, and can't do without. And the same with Carew from his time with Kildare. I wasn't bul*ting, stirring or antagonising when I said there should be a seperated Leinster championship for the rest of the Leinster counties with the winner playing Dublin in the Leinster final, and preferably at a home venue outside of Croke park for the challenging county. The chasm in Leinster football between the Dubs and rest is massive now and is widening all the time. You know you have a serious problem when you see a Meath team capitulating to Westmeath in the championship. A runaway Dublin is not sustainable for Leinster football and will have to be addressed sooner rather the later. The chasm will only widen in this semi-profession era between the Dubs and the rest in Leinster. I stand by my earlier assertion that the current Dublin team would beat the combined rest of Leinster by 10 points plus in a championship type game.
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kot
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Post by kot on Jun 30, 2015 9:11:41 GMT
Who in your opinion Mick? Cluxton starts the year on an all star and its his to lose after that- which is kinda hilarious, at this stage its ditto for Connolly. Let me qualify the above by saying that the 2 aforementioned players are easily in the very top bracket of GAA players, easily- but Cluxton is only as good as his runners/the coaching that goes in and Connolly is only doing it against mediocre teams. If Connolly wants to be considered amongst the real elite of the last 10 years then he needs to take a really big game by the scruff of the neck (like Donegal last year) and drag Dublin over the line. Michael Murphy does this about 3 times a year for Donegal and Connolly had a good 10 mins against them last year and then went missing. I want to add another point here that seems to have been missed in the light of an article by Darragh O Se recently about Luncy and his performance in the Club championship this year with him saying that its a different pace and that although he was outstanding for his club that its a much lower level- last year we had people telling us Connolly should win player of the year mainly on the back of his club performances!!!! Surely Lundy is an early contender by that logic Cluxton didn't get it last year. From memory it went to Durkan who actually played the biggest single role in ensuring that Kerry won the title. So there! But I kind of agree with your logic, a bit like the Gooch always having to get one no matter how indifferent a season he had. Semi 2013, majestic first 35 mins, didn't get a look in for entire 2nd half, yet he got an all star for 35 mins of football. And ye lost! Connolly case a bit different, I'm sure last year was his first allstar. Harsh re the Donegal game, thought he was class all day, one of the few to emerge with credit. He certainly isn't in M Murphys league in terms of consistency, but this traded against watching him when he is having a good day, all grace balance and power. Beautiful to watch but a bit to go yet to be ranked as a top top player as they say on Sky Gooch was also majestic for the Munster final and adapted to a new role in 2013 so to say he only had 35 mins is far more harsh than the comments on Connoly's second half against Donegal. (Although to single him out is a bit mental seeing as Donegal nullified the whole Dublin team really). Also, I recall Gooch being singlehandedly setting up 3 scores from nowhere for us in that second half at times where it seemed like ye had us by the scruff of the neck. He also was in through on goal before Johnny Cooper ankle tapped him without any repercussion for the offender with about 10 mins to go. He was on the ground for about 5 mins after that so even though he stayed on, his game was effectively over.
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Post by MrRasherstoyou on Jun 30, 2015 9:23:17 GMT
As I said in another post, 4 teams are dominating their provinces for at least 5 years. I think anything even like that hasn't happened since the 70s? (Galway, Kerry, Dublin, and even then Ulster was very open). So the issue is countrywide, in varying degrees. So why only change the Leinster Championship?
If Kerry beat Cork handy then you can't deny the issue exists there too now. And the same with Donegal and Monaghan. This could easily come to pass. Dublin also happen to play a sort of game that runs up big scores against anything other than a top quality defense. Once the gap opens up, it generally gets wider fast, with the exception of against the very/almost best other defenses.
I still think there's too much emphasis on 'Dublin in the professional era', what does that mean exactly? Because all the top teams are matching each other & ahead of the rest in levels of preparation and miles ahead of the weaker teams. And the likes of Kildare & Meath have the solution in their hands - to be better, they have the resources to make that happen in the near future.
The issue is about the best teams polaying the weakker teams in all the provincial championships. To focus only on Leinster & Dublin is ignoring the nationwide basis of the issue. And just because in previous periods there were maybe two strong teams in a province, so what? Since when does that somehow make it 'healthy', if those two teams are completely dominant, like Kerry/Cork always, Tyrone & Armagh from 1998 til 2011, and so on? It's just another fallacy.
If we want real change it has to be all the provincial championships.
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Post by MrRasherstoyou on Jun 30, 2015 9:35:22 GMT
No disrespect to Kildare but looking at them yesterday you'd have to say that Dublin's C team would probably give a better account of themselves. Woeful woeful. It's incredible to think such a gap exists between Dublin and the rest in that province. Absolutely no good to Dublin whatsoever. Rashers - In my opinion this type of match is no good for ye. Arguably the first proper test ye face may be the quarter final if not the semi final again. Obviously you can only play what's in front of you but it's a shame Leinster is so god awful. Many's the neutral who wouldn't sit down and watch 5 minutes of a drab Ulster game but give me that any day over a 'game' yesterday. It certainly can't do Dublin any good really. Thats what I said in another post. The issue isn't so much the extent of the scores/margins, it's that the championship has only a few games, and is knockout from the quarters on. Teams need more games to keep momentum. And some teams seem to have benefitted from going into the qualifiers and then going on to win the All-I, more games, more momentum. Still though, it's not the main reason they didn't perform well-enough against Donegal last year. As somebody said elsewhere, the top teams don't play enough against each other in competitions that most people see as very meaningful. The league isn't taken seriously enough. So since 2013 Dublin & Kerry haven't met in a really big game. Same with Dublin and Donegal between 2011 & 2014. Mayo and Donegal since 2013. Mayo and Dublin since 2013.
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fitz
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Post by fitz on Jun 30, 2015 9:44:49 GMT
Cluxton didn't get it last year. From memory it went to Durkan who actually played the biggest single role in ensuring that Kerry won the title. So there! But I kind of agree with your logic, a bit like the Gooch always having to get one no matter how indifferent a season he had. Semi 2013, majestic first 35 mins, didn't get a look in for entire 2nd half, yet he got an all star for 35 mins of football. And ye lost! Connolly case a bit different, I'm sure last year was his first allstar. Harsh re the Donegal game, thought he was class all day, one of the few to emerge with credit. He certainly isn't in M Murphys league in terms of consistency, but this traded against watching him when he is having a good day, all grace balance and power. Beautiful to watch but a bit to go yet to be ranked as a top top player as they say on Sky Gooch was also majestic for the Munster final and adapted to a new role in 2013 so to say he only had 35 mins is far more harsh than the comments on Connoly's second half against Donegal. (Although to single him out is a bit mental seeing as Donegal nullified the whole Dublin team really). Also, I recall Gooch being singlehandedly setting up 3 scores from nowhere for us in that second half at times where it seemed like ye had us by the scruff of the neck. He also was in through on goal before Johnny Cooper ankle tapped him without any repercussion for the offender with about 10 mins to go. He was on the ground for about 5 mins after that so even though he stayed on, his game was effectively over. Well said Kot. Completely agree and think you're 100% accurate. Gooch hasn't got any soft all stars. E g. 03 none and 09 when we won he was omitted and rightly so. In 10 he did his best to beat Down on his own and almost did. 8 All Stars in the modern era I think will be very difficult to match. I think Connolly is class and have said so many times here. I think he has a lot of football yet to play to achieve the consistent levels of performance delivered by Colm overall 13 year senior career to date. He still has at least 6-7? years left to build and cement further his status though so let's see what happens.
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fitz
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Post by fitz on Jun 30, 2015 9:46:53 GMT
As I said in another post, 4 teams are dominating their provinces for at least 5 years. I think anything even like that hasn't happened since the 70s? (Galway, Kerry, Dublin, and even then Ulster was very open). So the issue is countrywide, in varying degrees. So why only change the Leinster Championship? If Kerry beat Cork handy then you can't deny the issue exists there too now. And the same with Donegal and Monaghan. This could easily come to pass. Dublin also happen to play a sort of game that runs up big scores against anything other than a top quality defense. Once the gap opens up, it generally gets wider fast, with the exception of against the very/almost best other defenses. I still think there's too much emphasis on 'Dublin in the professional era', what does that mean exactly? Because all the top teams are matching each other & ahead of the rest in levels of preparation and miles ahead of the weaker teams. And the likes of Kildare & Meath have the solution in their hands - to be better, they have the resources to make that happen in the near future. The issue is about the best teams polaying the weakker teams in all the provincial championships. To focus only on Leinster & Dublin is ignoring the nationwide basis of the issue. And just because in previous periods there were maybe two strong teams in a province, so what? Since when does that somehow make it 'healthy', if those two teams are completely dominant, like Kerry/Cork always, Tyrone & Armagh from 1998 til 2011, and so on? It's just another fallacy. If we want real change it has to be all the provincial championships. Think that's a fair point Rashers.
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kot
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Post by kot on Jun 30, 2015 10:12:36 GMT
Lads, could be going round in circles again here with this whole debate about Leinster. Simple fact is that Dubs are light years ahead of anyone else there now. That's not their fault. I am sure they would prefer more solid tests but what can you do?
Kildare could be in line for a shock next week. 6 day turnaround after a drubbing like that?? I'd fancy a club team to cause an upset against a team who is bound to be dejected after a defeat like that.
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Post by Annascaultilidie on Jun 30, 2015 10:48:25 GMT
You know you have a serious problem when you see a Meath team capitulating to Westmeath in the championship. An odd statement... if you are suggesting that Dublin have somehow demoralised Meath you are pointing the finger at the wrong county, no?!
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Post by MrRasherstoyou on Jun 30, 2015 13:57:22 GMT
You know you have a serious problem when you see a Meath team capitulating to Westmeath in the championship. An odd statement... if you are suggesting that Dublin have somehow demoralised Meath you are pointing the finger at the wrong county, no?! I think he meant that with Meath being that poor there won't be any serious challenge to Dublin for a while yet, that's assuming Kildare or Westmeath don't produce something, in two weeks, or next year. But I think the consistent erroneous inference is that somehow Dublin's preparation (frequent use of words like 'professional') shouldn't be allowed up against much weaker counties. As if other top counties don't have a similarly 'professional' approach. Or maybe he's claiming it's all much more natural, instinctive, pure-bred, and mountain-running for the others?
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Post by kerrygold on Jun 30, 2015 15:19:40 GMT
An odd statement... if you are suggesting that Dublin have somehow demoralised Meath you are pointing the finger at the wrong county, no?! I think he meant that with Meath being that poor there won't be any serious challenge to Dublin for a while yet, that's assuming Kildare or Westmeath don't produce something, in two weeks, or next year. But I think the consistent erroneous inference is that somehow Dublin's preparation (frequent use of words like 'professional') shouldn't be allowed up against much weaker counties. As if other top counties don't have a similarly 'professional' approach. Or maybe he's claiming it's all much more natural, instinctive, pure-bred, and mountain-running for the others? What I'm saying is that the gap, highlighted by Westmeath beating Meath, in Leinster football is only going to widen between the "haves" and the "have nots". The haves being a large county with a major city, huge playing and financial resources, proximity of players in terms of employment and those attending university and a monopoly of playing all championship games at home.
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Post by Annascaultilidie on Jun 30, 2015 16:19:20 GMT
I think he meant that with Meath being that poor there won't be any serious challenge to Dublin for a while yet, that's assuming Kildare or Westmeath don't produce something, in two weeks, or next year. But I think the consistent erroneous inference is that somehow Dublin's preparation (frequent use of words like 'professional') shouldn't be allowed up against much weaker counties. As if other top counties don't have a similarly 'professional' approach. Or maybe he's claiming it's all much more natural, instinctive, pure-bred, and mountain-running for the others? What I'm saying is that the gap, highlighted by Westmeath beating Meath, in Leinster football is only going to widen between the "haves" and the "have nots". The haves being a large county with a major city, huge playing and financial resources, proximity of players in terms of employment and those attending university and a monopoly of playing all championship games at home. This makes absolutely no sense to me. Are Westmeath a "have"?
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Post by Mickmack on Jun 30, 2015 19:15:39 GMT
Cluxton didn't get it last year. From memory it went to Durkan who actually played the biggest single role in ensuring that Kerry won the title. So there! But I kind of agree with your logic, a bit like the Gooch always having to get one no matter how indifferent a season he had. Semi 2013, majestic first 35 mins, didn't get a look in for entire 2nd half, yet he got an all star for 35 mins of football. And ye lost! Connolly case a bit different, I'm sure last year was his first allstar. Harsh re the Donegal game, thought he was class all day, one of the few to emerge with credit. He certainly isn't in M Murphys league in terms of consistency, but this traded against watching him when he is having a good day, all grace balance and power. Beautiful to watch but a bit to go yet to be ranked as a top top player as they say on Sky Gooch was also majestic for the Munster final and adapted to a new role in 2013 so to say he only had 35 mins is far more harsh than the comments on Connoly's second half against Donegal. (Although to single him out is a bit mental seeing as Donegal nullified the whole Dublin team really). Also, I recall Gooch being singlehandedly setting up 3 scores from nowhere for us in that second half at times where it seemed like ye had us by the scruff of the neck. He also was in through on goal before Johnny Cooper ankle tapped him without any repercussion for the offender with about 10 mins to go. He was on the ground for about 5 mins after that so even though he stayed on, his game was effectively over. the boot in the head from McMahon was what took Colm out
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Post by kerrybhoy06 on Jun 30, 2015 20:36:38 GMT
Gooch was also majestic for the Munster final and adapted to a new role in 2013 so to say he only had 35 mins is far more harsh than the comments on Connoly's second half against Donegal. (Although to single him out is a bit mental seeing as Donegal nullified the whole Dublin team really). Also, I recall Gooch being singlehandedly setting up 3 scores from nowhere for us in that second half at times where it seemed like ye had us by the scruff of the neck. He also was in through on goal before Johnny Cooper ankle tapped him without any repercussion for the offender with about 10 mins to go. He was on the ground for about 5 mins after that so even though he stayed on, his game was effectively over. the boot in the head from McMahon was what took Colm out Are you suggesting that Philly McMahon is disgusting, detestable tramp? Well I never
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fitz
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Post by fitz on Jun 30, 2015 22:47:26 GMT
the boot in the head from McMahon was what took Colm out Are you suggesting that Philly McMahon is disgusting, detestable tramp? Well I never He's is actually a good footballer, but have no time for him either. After that incident with the boot he was thrash talking and goading Gooch when the games was over as a contest. Be interested in the opines of Rashers, Sky... To try and balance my bias, I have a mate from Brigids, Castleknock and he can't stand him either. A 'bad egg' were words used and 'doesn't give a ***** about him'
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Post by MrRasherstoyou on Jul 1, 2015 9:03:39 GMT
Are you suggesting that Philly McMahon is disgusting, detestable tramp? Well I never He's is actually a good footballer, but have no time for him either. After that incident with the boot he was thrash talking and goading Gooch when the games was over as a contest. Be interested in the opines of Rashers, Sky... To try and balance my bias, I have a mate from Brigids, Castleknock and he can't stand him either. A 'bad egg' were words used and 'doesn't give a ***** about him' Well first of all it would be like me asking you to say DOSé was a 'you know what' for some of the things he did, or Galvin (who didn't do much in fairness to him), or AOM for his dive amd some off-the-ball stuff, or even Gooch for his play-acting at times (holding his face after taking a bit of a late shoulder or some such, has happened quite a few times; that's looking for cards, conning the ref). All teams, many players do bad things sometimes. As regards PMcMahon, he has what DOSé might call a 'scamp' element to him. He can't seem to help himself with some blackguarding. I don't think the contact to the back of Gooch's head was much, side of boot, not much impact. It was 'roughing up'. It was wrong but let's spend all day picking out incidents. This is the Kerry forum, pointless me trying to argue stuff like that here. As regards the JCooper tackle, highlighted so well by Mick there, it was a genuine attempt to get the ball. Unlike Donaghy's pull back on Shane Ryan running through on goal in the vital stages of the 2007 semi, the pull back on McCauley in the 2011 final when he was clean through. I've no problem with all of these things per se, but you can't expect one man to blacken his own team/county and not take a look at others. My pet hate in football (apart from very violent incidents of course) is diving and feigning. I've argued here for years about the culture of violence and blackguarding in GAA and yet we spend hours, weeks, and acres of newspapers, forums etc going on about fish-hooking, referees, individual players as baddies and so on. I've played bits of football, and in the height of battle I've done some of these things, nothing very bad but if I think I've been wronged I'll certainly do something back. Like alot of Dubs I'm not very cute about it! Here's the thing though that overshadows and dominates any discussion of individual players or incidents, for me - I can think of two games, the 2011 & 2012 All-I semis where all sorts of skulduggery went on to put my team off and try to get players sent off. Virtually nothing was said about those so I've no time for anyone who wants to waffle on about this or that incident when they didn't see anything wrong with multiple incidents in selective games. NO TIME whatsoever. People see what they want to see, put emphasis on what suits them to. There's alot of one-eyed bias around in the GAA world and until that changes it's hard to engage in reasonable debate
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Post by MrRasherstoyou on Jul 1, 2015 9:37:25 GMT
I think he meant that with Meath being that poor there won't be any serious challenge to Dublin for a while yet, that's assuming Kildare or Westmeath don't produce something, in two weeks, or next year. But I think the consistent erroneous inference is that somehow Dublin's preparation (frequent use of words like 'professional') shouldn't be allowed up against much weaker counties. As if other top counties don't have a similarly 'professional' approach. Or maybe he's claiming it's all much more natural, instinctive, pure-bred, and mountain-running for the others? What I'm saying is that the gap, highlighted by Westmeath beating Meath, in Leinster football is only going to widen between the "haves" and the "have nots". The haves being a large county with a major city, huge playing and financial resources, proximity of players in terms of employment and those attending university and a monopoly of playing all championship games at home. So to cut to the chase here, as we are yet again going round in your endless circles, your point is that Dublin has lots of resources, Kerry doesn't, and therefore 'something has to be done about Dublin'/Leinster? You draw in a load of stuff about 'big city' etc, and neglect to separate out the issue of GAA resources as against general resources. I'm not going down the road of repeating myself on every single thing you keep throwing up. It's time for you to answer questions if you want to keep getting responses to this sort of stuff you campaign about year in year out. You can't see a problem in Cork for example having much bigger resources (not to mention population, number of GAA clubs) than most other counties, why is that? You see no problem in the fact that stronger counties have been relatively out of the league of much weaker counties all down the decades. You only started really going on about all this stuff when Dublin actually won a couple of All-Is, why is that? YOu see nothing wrong with Kk's unprecedented dominance, 10 All-Is in 15 years, or else you don't think it's worth talking about, why? Kerry have dominated football on and off and won much more than any other county, yet that's all down to Kerry's brilliance, nothing to do with having more resources than the poor weaker counties? Yet Dublin having a bit of success is somehow only down to "massive" resources, and resources are now a huge issue? You said yourself that Kildare and Meath have big resources, yet you talk about changing Leinster. Not anywhere else just because Cork happen to have remained competitive the last number of years. The points about the history of teams, counties, and provinces having periods of strength and weakness have been outlined here in detail over and over again, yet why do you choose to ignore all that and just keep bringing up the same things, saying the same things, every time Dublin win a game by a big score? Lots of teams have won games by big scores recently, not always as big, but as has been pointed out many times, it's a matter off degrees, and when Kerry were doing it in the 70s/80s 'that was then this is now'? As has been discussesd to death on here the issue of sponsorship, such as Kerry's 1.5 million (declared) from the US, needs looking at, and it is being looked at. The issue of supporting counties to improve structures in whatever appropriate ways needs looking at, it is being looked at. The issue is about competition structure as much as anything, but forget about that because it's much easier and more popular to go on and on and on and on and on about every time Dublin beats up some poor unfortunates. And in contrast, let's all talk about how majestic Kk are. The artistry of them, drool drool
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kot
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Posts: 1,128
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Post by kot on Jul 1, 2015 9:44:37 GMT
Ohhhh jesus are we going to have this effing debate now on this thread EVERY time Dublin hockey someone now?
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Post by MrRasherstoyou on Jul 1, 2015 10:46:33 GMT
Ohhhh jesus are we going to have this effing debate now on this thread EVERY time Dublin hockey someone now? No I'm going to stop now, I'm boring myself stupid. No doubt in a while I'll get the usual "you don't seem to have an answer for....", or "I'm still waiting for a reply to....." posts just to keep the entertainment going. More fool me!
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Post by Mickmack on Jul 1, 2015 12:26:59 GMT
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Post by skybluezone on Jul 1, 2015 13:14:50 GMT
Cluxton didn't get it last year. From memory it went to Durkan who actually played the biggest single role in ensuring that Kerry won the title. So there! But I kind of agree with your logic, a bit like the Gooch always having to get one no matter how indifferent a season he had. Semi 2013, majestic first 35 mins, didn't get a look in for entire 2nd half, yet he got an all star for 35 mins of football. And ye lost! Connolly case a bit different, I'm sure last year was his first allstar. Harsh re the Donegal game, thought he was class all day, one of the few to emerge with credit. He certainly isn't in M Murphys league in terms of consistency, but this traded against watching him when he is having a good day, all grace balance and power. Beautiful to watch but a bit to go yet to be ranked as a top top player as they say on Sky I would happily put Connolly inside the top 3/4 players in the country- easily but my point is that there was one big game last year and he didnt perform like he can. The argument about his club performances vexed me greatly as that logic had never been applied in recent memory and has been dropped already this year. Agree with you on the Cluxton and Gooch similarities- I think Durkin got it last year as a pity vote in some ways. I think Cluxton's kickouts are very good but people forget that there are several keepers who could do that but dont have the same standard of runners or structure.It's way too simplistic to put it down to cluxton and you could see that his reactions on Sunday where he was getting frustrated with the runners- the movement is key- most intercounty keepers can kick it accurately Disagree. I disagree because all the top counties are putting in the same effort in terms of training time, planning, video analysis etc. If thats all there was to it then there is no reason why Kealy, Kelly, Durkin, Clarke, Hennelly etc shouldn't be achieving the same results as Cluxton. There is no talent involved in support runners or structure, that is just planning and fitness. Don't want to keep banging on about it but the man has changed the role of goalkeeper completely. I do know he has trained with extra heavy footballs to improve his kickout delivery. This is evident in the quickness of delivery, velocity, trajectory etc. No other keeper is in the same ball park as him. Even Kevin McStay was oohing and aahing about the kickouts on Sunday, and he is no Dub lover. So maybe that's why Cluxton starts as the default Allstar keeper every year. Just another general point, on Gooch in 2013 semi, Kerry had scored 3-6 by ht, they scored another 5 points in the entire second half. Now to me that's indicative of the impact Cian O'Sullivan had in marking Gooch, credit where it's due. I know Gooch got a bang from McMahon, but well before this O'Sullivan had negated his impact. On McMahon himself, to answer another query, I have stated more than once on here that Gavin could do with dropping him from the panel. He is a liability in my book, both from a disciplinary and footballing perspective. Both are linked, yes he has some great abilities and takes a score and supports the attack really well, but he seems to think thats his primary role. Maybe it is when playing against the blanket, as he spends more time in the opposition half than in his own. Maybe Gavin needs him as an enforcer, he needs no encouragement to take on that role. In my book Dublin are too nice, could do with a few Eamon Heary and Keith Barr types in our team. Footballers but hard as fook. Which brings me to my last point, Coldrick was absolute muck on Sunday, booked both Kilkenny and Connolly when giving yellows to their Kildare counterparts, just to even it up. It was obvious Kildare had an agenda in the second half to "get stuck in". They did this without fear of censure from Mr. Coldrick, who copped out of his role completely by issuing "2 yellows", ridiculous. So it's doubtful if as Mickmack says Connolly should be thanking Darragh O'Se for his comments. He got a yellow on Sunday for getting shoved around the place.
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keane
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Post by keane on Jul 1, 2015 13:47:50 GMT
Meath and Kildare are getting worse and worse completely independently of Dublin who are on about the same level over the last three years IMO.
No point crying about Dublin until you're the best you can possibly be yourself. If they're still hammering you at that stage it's a different story, but at the moment we're seeing Kildare and Westmeath sliding away down to Division 3 in a group that Down and Roscommon were able to get promoted out of.
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Jigz84
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Post by Jigz84 on Jul 1, 2015 13:59:21 GMT
At least Kildare are making strides at Underage level. When was the last good minor or U21 side out of Meath?
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