mandad
Senior Member
Posts: 448
|
Post by mandad on Nov 9, 2015 21:46:46 GMT
I have checked in to this forum more times this past 27/28 hours than probably any other time since I first became a subscriber here. My reason was simply to see what 'take' the established reporters of our games on here had on this one. Unfortunately, the usual respected contributors have remained 'stum' so far and strangely that does not surprise me greatly either. It was that kind of game, difficult to analyse. I was at the game and as usual I had my radio and ear-piece. As a neutral I was particularly interested to see if there were any potential county standard players and in that regard I was impressed by Jamie O'Sullivan. For the second or third time I have seen him, he has played well and ticks a lot of boxes. He should get some game time in the McGrath cup or even the League. The game was not a classic by any means but it was well contested and I have to say that I enjoyed it. It was regrettable that one set of supporters resorted to booing at the end of the game. In my opinion, there are no justifiable reasons for there to be such an unhealthy attitude towards officials in our games. Referees are appointed to ensure matches can be played and the laws are applied fairly to each side. There is a presumption of honesty and integrity in those serving as adjudicators. How can a ref win? When every decision taken goes for one team and against another. Just because we don’t agree does not mean we should suspect the refs integrity. Criticize of course, debate of course, and disagree of course. If we are to question the integrity of our refs after every game then there will be no refs. Without a ref - there is no game. Most players pressurize referees, not to change the current decision, but to influence future ones. About four minutes into the game a South Kerry player was black carded for a foul on a player. The referee was 100% correct in his decision. Kerry radio commentators informed listeners that they didn't see exactly what had happened but nevertheless were in no doubt but that the refs action was 'Harsh'. This idiom is a constant in all Kerry Radio broadcasts and we all know what it means - the generic name for severe, intolerant – merciless. A few minutes later we were told that there was “a little foul” and that the ref was 'harsh' again. In the name of God, what is “a little foul”. I discarded the radio at half time, I couldn't take any more. I rest my case. You cannot have an opinion when you were not at the game and if you say you are guided by the Kerry Radio commentary then you are even more deluded. The ref did o.k. and cannot be blamed for the controversial point decision in the second half. Nor can he be doubted about the added time. The opprobrium from ourselves in the past in respect of big games that we lost in similar circumstances seems to be conveniently forgotten. People who are presenting “facts” are usually layering many assumptions, theories, and opinions into their assertions. That's my opinion anyway!
|
|
mossie
Fanatical Member
Posts: 2,578
|
Post by mossie on Nov 9, 2015 22:43:46 GMT
The current fiasco regarding representatives for the Munster Senior Club Championship highlights the huge fixtures problem we have in this county. The club game is a mere footnote on the current calendar and Kerry teams are the law when it comes to games being played. Admittedly this is a national problem and Croke Park needs to address the length of the inter county season and clearly define a season for the club player. What is evident from the County Board's decision to nominate Legion to represent the county is that the Senior Club Championship is simply a waste of time and effort. Legion could very well be beaten in the replay and yet could wind up Munster Champions having won no title in their own county. Then again when you see the current Munster Champions fighting tooth and nail at the arse end of the year to retain their Senior status you get an idea of the regard the County Board have for the club players. The club championship is neither a here nor there competition at this stage. Scrap it and use the dates freed up to run off a few rounds of some other competition. divisional board championships, county leagues and county senior championship all struggling for dates and the winners of the club championship mite not even end up representing Kerry if a divisional team wins the bishop Moynihan. cant see what the club championship does for anyone at this stage. At any rate I reckon the furthest advance club team in the county senior championship is well entitled to have the right to represent Kerry
|
|
|
Post by agoalisworth3pts on Nov 9, 2015 23:40:30 GMT
with legion it now seems going to be playing nemo do they but 100% into this game and risk injuries to key players before the county final replay which i presume is their number 1 target for the year! they had 34 named yesterday do they play their b team and save themselves for the county final replay?
|
|
|
Post by Annascaultilidie on Nov 10, 2015 7:33:26 GMT
You'd have to ask why are the provincial games have to be played so early with the final four months away.
|
|
|
Post by kerrygold on Nov 10, 2015 7:48:16 GMT
I have checked in to this forum more times this past 27/28 hours than probably any other time since I first became a subscriber here. My reason was simply to see what 'take' the established reporters of our games on here had on this one. Unfortunately, the usual respected contributors have remained 'stum' so far and strangely that does not surprise me greatly either. It was that kind of game, difficult to analyse. I was at the game and as usual I had my radio and ear-piece. As a neutral I was particularly interested to see if there were any potential county standard players and in that regard I was impressed by Jamie O'Sullivan. For the second or third time I have seen him, he has played well and ticks a lot of boxes. He should get some game time in the McGrath cup or even the League. The game was not a classic by any means but it was well contested and I have to say that I enjoyed it. It was regrettable that one set of supporters resorted to booing at the end of the game. In my opinion, there are no justifiable reasons for there to be such an unhealthy attitude towards officials in our games. Referees are appointed to ensure matches can be played and the laws are applied fairly to each side. There is a presumption of honesty and integrity in those serving as adjudicators. How can a ref win? When every decision taken goes for one team and against another. Just because we don’t agree does not mean we should suspect the refs integrity. Criticize of course, debate of course, and disagree of course. If we are to question the integrity of our refs after every game then there will be no refs. Without a ref - there is no game. Most players pressurize referees, not to change the current decision, but to influence future ones. About four minutes into the game a South Kerry player was black carded for a foul on a player. The referee was 100% correct in his decision. Kerry radio commentators informed listeners that they didn't see exactly what had happened but nevertheless were in no doubt but that the refs action was 'Harsh'. This idiom is a constant in all Kerry Radio broadcasts and we all know what it means - the generic name for severe, intolerant – merciless. A few minutes later we were told that there was “a little foul” and that the ref was 'harsh' again. In the name of God, what is “a little foul”. I discarded the radio at half time, I couldn't take any more. I rest my case. You cannot have an opinion when you were not at the game and if you say you are guided by the Kerry Radio commentary then you are even more deluded. The ref did o.k. and cannot be blamed for the controversial point decision in the second half. Nor can he be doubted about the added time. The opprobrium from ourselves in the past in respect of big games that we lost in similar circumstances seems to be conveniently forgotten. People who are presenting “facts” are usually layering many assumptions, theories, and opinions into their assertions. That's my opinion anyway! There is no excuse for four officials not to see a ball that went 12 inches wide from a long distance free. It is not like they were busy. One forward scored from play in the whole game. Cluxton wasted a minute or thereabouts taking the free at the end of that final, there was absolutely no justification for adding on two minutes beyond the initial two last Sunday. There were no stoppages in play. You are not comparing like with like.
|
|
|
Post by givehimaball on Nov 10, 2015 10:14:33 GMT
I have checked in to this forum more times this past 27/28 hours than probably any other time since I first became a subscriber here. My reason was simply to see what 'take' the established reporters of our games on here had on this one. Unfortunately, the usual respected contributors have remained 'stum' so far and strangely that does not surprise me greatly either. It was that kind of game, difficult to analyse. I was at the game and as usual I had my radio and ear-piece. As a neutral I was particularly interested to see if there were any potential county standard players and in that regard I was impressed by Jamie O'Sullivan. For the second or third time I have seen him, he has played well and ticks a lot of boxes. He should get some game time in the McGrath cup or even the League. The game was not a classic by any means but it was well contested and I have to say that I enjoyed it. It was regrettable that one set of supporters resorted to booing at the end of the game. In my opinion, there are no justifiable reasons for there to be such an unhealthy attitude towards officials in our games. Referees are appointed to ensure matches can be played and the laws are applied fairly to each side. There is a presumption of honesty and integrity in those serving as adjudicators. How can a ref win? When every decision taken goes for one team and against another. Just because we don’t agree does not mean we should suspect the refs integrity. Criticize of course, debate of course, and disagree of course. If we are to question the integrity of our refs after every game then there will be no refs. Without a ref - there is no game. Most players pressurize referees, not to change the current decision, but to influence future ones. About four minutes into the game a South Kerry player was black carded for a foul on a player. The referee was 100% correct in his decision. Kerry radio commentators informed listeners that they didn't see exactly what had happened but nevertheless were in no doubt but that the refs action was 'Harsh'. This idiom is a constant in all Kerry Radio broadcasts and we all know what it means - the generic name for severe, intolerant – merciless. A few minutes later we were told that there was “a little foul” and that the ref was 'harsh' again. In the name of God, what is “a little foul”. I discarded the radio at half time, I couldn't take any more. I rest my case. You cannot have an opinion when you were not at the game and if you say you are guided by the Kerry Radio commentary then you are even more deluded. The ref did o.k. and cannot be blamed for the controversial point decision in the second half. Nor can he be doubted about the added time. The opprobrium from ourselves in the past in respect of big games that we lost in similar circumstances seems to be conveniently forgotten. People who are presenting “facts” are usually layering many assumptions, theories, and opinions into their assertions. That's my opinion anyway! Yeah it was a stone wall black - I was on the hill and happened pretty much right in front of me - what definitely didn't help Wharton's case was the ball was well gone when he made the "tackle" - even a few people around me missed it as they were following the ball - ref consulted with the linesman who was very close to the action to make certain. After the ref made the black card decision he gave a string of decisions in favour of South Kerry (some of them were correct but there were a couple of 50/50 ones in there as well) There was what I thought was another black by South Kerry later on to my mind with Conor Keane being pulled down off the ball in the second half with a Legion attack developing - I didn't have such a clear view of the incident though and would like to know what others thought? Jamie O'Sullivan did have a good game but I thought he faded a fair bit in the second half - still he had a very good day The highlight of the game was undoubtedly the long-distance point kicking with a seriously high chunk of the quality scores from play coming from outside the 45m line - I think this says a world about the play of the forwards though (especially South Kerrys who I don't think got any score) Legion won the kickout battle hands down - they got much better possession on their own kickouts as opposed to South Kerry who went the as long as possible and contested in the middle route bar one or two occasions. I felt Legion were very naive in their defending when Declan O'Sullivan came on - getting caught by a short-free from Sheehan to Declan was unforgivable stuff and it happened twice - Declan didn't do anything too spectacular but what he did do was very effective. I thought Legion's inexperience/nerves got the better of them in the second half.
|
|
fivenarow
Senior Member
If it aint broken, then dont fix it!
Posts: 924
|
Post by fivenarow on Nov 10, 2015 10:17:13 GMT
[quote author=" mandad" source="/post/183803/thread" About four minutes into the game a South Kerry player was black carded for a foul on a player. The referee was 100% correct in his decision. Kerry radio commentators informed listeners that they didn't see exactly what had happened but nevertheless were in no doubt but that the refs action was 'Harsh'. This idiom is a constant in all Kerry Radio broadcasts and we all know what it means - the generic name for severe, intolerant – merciless. A few minutes later we were told that there was “a little foul” and that the ref was 'harsh' again. In the name of God, what is “a little foul”. I discarded the radio at half time, I couldn't take any more. I rest my case. You cannot have an opinion when you were not at the game and if you say you are guided by the Kerry Radio commentary then you are even more deluded. The ref did o.k. and cannot be blamed for the controversial point decision in the second half. Nor can he be doubted about the added time. The opprobrium from ourselves in the past in respect of big games that we lost in similar circumstances seems to be conveniently forgotten. People who are presenting “facts” are usually layering many assumptions, theories, and opinions into their assertions. That's my opinion anyway![/quote] I wasn't at the game & tuned into radio kerry for the commentary. As I've said before the rk commentary can be shocking at times. According to the boys Jamie o Sullivan was hammering Brian Sheehan in the first half & south kerry would have to make a switch after 15 mins & how Brian looked to be carrying an injury. They also said that it was a cracker of a game??? Then when the match finished they were raving about how good Brian Sheehan was & a buddy of mine who was at the game told me that Brian Sheehan was probably man of the match. At times I don't know if they're looking at the same game as me at all? Ambrose & billy come on after the match & said it was a poor game & then the boys who had earlier said it was a cracker also say it was very poor?? At least the nemo game is on tg4 at the weekend, it might be in Irish but it will definitely make more sense than radio kerry. Don't get me wrong it's great for the updates but don't take what's said to be gospel either.
|
|
Jigz84
Fanatical Member
Posts: 2,017
|
Post by Jigz84 on Nov 10, 2015 12:18:27 GMT
Kerry's Munster Club SFC fixture fiasco ‘toys with players’Dingle chairman Seamus Ó Bambaire says the Kerry County Board must now take action to ensure no club suffers the same as they have due to the Munster Club Championship fixture controversy. As Kerry Club winners, Dingle had been put on standby by the board since last month to represent the county in a Munster Club SFC semi-final in case a club team failed to win the county championship. However, after the Killarney Legion-South Kerry county final on Sunday was drawn and the replay pushed back to November 22 to avoid a clash with St Marys’ Munster IFC semi-final next Saturday, Kerry sought clarification about a rule, which was yesterday confirmed in Legion’s favour. The rules states: “In the case of the senior football championship, Kerry shall be represented by the longest standing club in the county senior football championship with the following exceptions - where the county shall be represented by the winners of the Kerry Club Championship: a) Where the county championship is completed and won by a divisional/group team. b) Where the county championship is not completed and all club teams have been eliminated.” On that basis, Legion were deemed Kerry representatives in the province and will now face Nemo Rangers in Páirc Uí Rinn next Sunday. However, Dingle have been left hurt by the episode. Ó Bambaire said: “There is a rule that states the last club standing in the county championship will go forward given the county championship isn’t completed. That rule is there, we realise that rule is there but more credence should have been given to the winners of the club championship. “It’s very hard to be holding players on a string for so long and then cut that string in the 11th hour. We’ve a young bunch of promising players and it’s certainly not ideal, to say the least. You’re toying with those players, asking them to be ready to go, and then at the 11th hour cutting that string, and it’s not fair. “The fixtures structure will have to be looked at and this will surely bring it to a head. In the long term, it will be for the good of all players.” Ó Bambaire revealed Dingle yesterday made attempts to convince the county board to change their minds but the Legion-Nemo game will go ahead. He also stated club members including himself had attended Nemo Rangers’ game with the possibility of a provincial semi-final meeting in mind. “We had to prepare as if we were going to represent our county. We prepared fully and we wanted to represent our club and county to the utmost of our ability. We have been doing that, we have been putting in the effort and time to do so.” Speaking on Radio Kerry yesterday, Dingle manager Paul Fitzmaurice lashed the county board for their fixtures schedule which he felt precipitated this situation: “The whole system is wrong within the county and this fiasco, I’m afraid the county board have been shown up.” On Twitter, Dingle players also expressed their grievances. Paul Geaney posted: “Disappointed with kerry_Official. Is there any point playing the club championship next year, seems a waste of time. Best of luck to the Legion, they’ll give it a good rattle and hopefully end up in Croke Park next March. Not fair on them either however.” David Geaney, Paul’s cousin, tweeted about Legion: “congrats and best of luck to them... we may as well kick the club champ trophy into the Lee for all its (sic) worth.” www.irishexaminer.com/sport/gaa/football/kerrys-munster-club-sfc-fixture-fiasco-toys-with-players-364052.html
|
|
|
Post by buck02 on Nov 10, 2015 12:24:54 GMT
I have checked in to this forum more times this past 27/28 hours than probably any other time since I first became a subscriber here. My reason was simply to see what 'take' the established reporters of our games on here had on this one. Unfortunately, the usual respected contributors have remained 'stum' so far and strangely that does not surprise me greatly either. It was that kind of game, difficult to analyse. I was at the game and as usual I had my radio and ear-piece. As a neutral I was particularly interested to see if there were any potential county standard players and in that regard I was impressed by Jamie O'Sullivan. For the second or third time I have seen him, he has played well and ticks a lot of boxes. He should get some game time in the McGrath cup or even the League. The game was not a classic by any means but it was well contested and I have to say that I enjoyed it. It was regrettable that one set of supporters resorted to booing at the end of the game. In my opinion, there are no justifiable reasons for there to be such an unhealthy attitude towards officials in our games. Referees are appointed to ensure matches can be played and the laws are applied fairly to each side. There is a presumption of honesty and integrity in those serving as adjudicators. How can a ref win? When every decision taken goes for one team and against another. Just because we don’t agree does not mean we should suspect the refs integrity. Criticize of course, debate of course, and disagree of course. If we are to question the integrity of our refs after every game then there will be no refs. Without a ref - there is no game. Most players pressurize referees, not to change the current decision, but to influence future ones. About four minutes into the game a South Kerry player was black carded for a foul on a player. The referee was 100% correct in his decision. Kerry radio commentators informed listeners that they didn't see exactly what had happened but nevertheless were in no doubt but that the refs action was 'Harsh'. This idiom is a constant in all Kerry Radio broadcasts and we all know what it means - the generic name for severe, intolerant – merciless. A few minutes later we were told that there was “a little foul” and that the ref was 'harsh' again. In the name of God, what is “a little foul”. I discarded the radio at half time, I couldn't take any more. I rest my case.
You cannot have an opinion when you were not at the game and if you say you are guided by the Kerry Radio commentary then you are even more deluded. The ref did o.k. and cannot be blamed for the controversial point decision in the second half. Nor can he be doubted about the added time. The opprobrium from ourselves in the past in respect of big games that we lost in similar circumstances seems to be conveniently forgotten. People who are presenting “facts” are usually layering many assumptions, theories, and opinions into their assertions. That's my opinion anyway! How many times have you heard the same commentators bemoan the lack of consistency in the application of the rules while at the same time saying the ref should use "common sense". "Common sense" is another way of saying that the rules of the games should be applied differently depending on how long is gone in the game, if its raining, if the game is close, if there are 15 points between the teams, if its a county player etc. etc.
|
|
|
Post by onlykerry on Nov 10, 2015 13:27:14 GMT
Was at the game as a neutral (did not want to listen to the radio K version of events as the score is the only reliable information they give out). Thought the ref was ok in the main - as in any game he gave some soft/questionable frees to BOTH sides. He did make two major blunders however and both had a major impact on the game. Keanes free was wide but the linesman and the ref were more intent on addressing the SK management reaction than addressing the wide/score. He played too much injury time and it looked like he was giving Legion every opportunity to equalise. The much discussed time clock (out of hands of referee) would easily solve the latter issue and put the topic to bed for once and for all - this discretionary element to when the final whistle is blown should be eliminated and it would make the referees life a lot easier.
|
|
|
Post by hurlingmad on Nov 10, 2015 15:38:30 GMT
Alternative theory to fix the Dingle vs Legion saga...... Play a midweek game between the 2 teams to sort who plays Nemo on Sunday? Might be off the wall but what do ye think
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Nov 10, 2015 16:11:44 GMT
According to the Kerry Eolaire 2015 Killarney Legion should be preparing for a game with Nemo Rangers. I would be inclined to interpret that rather differently. Reading point B, yes the county championship has not been completed but not all club teams have been eliminated as legion are in a replay on the 22nd. By my reading its Dingle that should be competing in munster.
|
|
|
Post by Mickmack on Nov 10, 2015 17:26:21 GMT
Maybe I am missing something but ...... weren't Crokes going to represent Kerry in 2014 if Stacks lost to mid Kerry in the final. If I am correct, on what basis would Crokes have qualified given that Stacks were the only club side in the final. The rule is reproduced below courtesy of Flemish. According to the Kerry Eolaire 2015 Killarney Legion should be preparing for a game with Nemo Rangers.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Nov 10, 2015 17:35:38 GMT
Any hope of them playing the replay on the 22nd and playing semi final of Munster following weekend with whichever team as per the rule? Is it completely necessary to have semi final v Nemo played this weekend?
|
|
|
Post by Mickmack on Nov 10, 2015 17:37:49 GMT
Tomas who.... I can see you point.
It looks to me that Legion don't qualify on point A or B Dingle don't qualify on point A or B
It seems that no club side is eligible to play Nemo.
And I cant see how Crokes would have qualified to represent Kerry in 2014 either if Stacks lost.
It looks to me that the above rule only comes into play when a divisional has won the final or where only divisional sides are left in the competition..... in that case the club championship winners can represent Kerry.
|
|
|
Post by clarinman on Nov 10, 2015 17:38:35 GMT
Crokes would have represented Kerry in 2014 under exception a) if mid Kerry had won the county final. Neither exception applies to the Legion.
|
|
|
Post by clarinman on Nov 10, 2015 17:47:15 GMT
Tomas who.... I can see you point. It looks to me that Legion don't qualify on point A or B Dingle don't qualify on point A or B It seems that no club side is eligible to play Nemo. And I cant see how Crokes would have qualified to represent Kerry in 2014 either if Stacks lost. It looks to me that the above rule only comes into play when a divisional has won the final or where only divisional sides are left in the competition..... in that case the club championship winners can represent Kerry. For Dingle to play NEMO one of exceptions a) or b) would have to be true. As both are false, the county board are correct to nominate Legion to represent Kerry in the Munster club championship.
|
|
cool1
Senior Member
Posts: 275
|
Post by cool1 on Nov 10, 2015 18:24:53 GMT
With an AGM coming up I assume that Dingle and the other Clubs that now seem unhappy with the Club Championship and with the current fixtures schedule will have relevant motions in to improve the present situation. This is your chance if you think there are solutions please bring them on and let the Clubs vote them in. I think that i am correct in saying that a few months back when the Championship review was being brought in that the committee wanted to revert to a knockout competition but the Club delegates voted overwhelmingly against it. This would have reduced the competition by 2 rounds(2 weekends).
|
|
Premier
Fanatical Member
Posts: 1,185
|
Post by Premier on Nov 10, 2015 18:42:16 GMT
[quote author=" mandad" source="/post/183803/thread" About four minutes into the game a South Kerry player was black carded for a foul on a player. The referee was 100% correct in his decision. Kerry radio commentators informed listeners that they didn't see exactly what had happened but nevertheless were in no doubt but that the refs action was 'Harsh'. This idiom is a constant in all Kerry Radio broadcasts and we all know what it means - the generic name for severe, intolerant – merciless. A few minutes later we were told that there was “a little foul” and that the ref was 'harsh' again. In the name of God, what is “a little foul”. I discarded the radio at half time, I couldn't take any more. I rest my case. You cannot have an opinion when you were not at the game and if you say you are guided by the Kerry Radio commentary then you are even more deluded. The ref did o.k. and cannot be blamed for the controversial point decision in the second half. Nor can he be doubted about the added time. The opprobrium from ourselves in the past in respect of big games that we lost in similar circumstances seems to be conveniently forgotten. People who are presenting “facts” are usually layering many assumptions, theories, and opinions into their assertions. That's my opinion anyway! I wasn't at the game & tuned into radio kerry for the commentary. As I've said before the rk commentary can be shocking at times. According to the boys Jamie o Sullivan was hammering Brian Sheehan in the first half & south kerry would have to make a switch after 15 mins & how Brian looked to be carrying an injury. They also said that it was a cracker of a game??? Then when the match finished they were raving about how good Brian Sheehan was & a buddy of mine who was at the game told me that Brian Sheehan was probably man of the match. At times I don't know if they're looking at the same game as me at all? Ambrose & billy come on after the match & said it was a poor game & then the boys who had earlier said it was a cracker also say it was very poor?? At least the nemo game is on tg4 at the weekend, it might be in Irish but it will definitely make more sense than radio kerry. Don't get me wrong it's great for the updates but don't take what's said to be gospel either. [/quote] In fairness to the lads on the radio, Sheehan did look like he was limping in the first half, couldn't seem to contest effectively and Jamie kicked 3 points off him. I don't know what he had in the dressing room at half time but he did emerge a different man with no sign of a limp
|
|
KY50
Senior Member
Posts: 318
|
Post by KY50 on Nov 10, 2015 19:33:11 GMT
Legion need to focus on the Kerry Final and win that. Probably better to put a second string out against Nemo to give some experience to the panel, forecast on Sunday and leading into it not good at this point.
|
|
|
Post by kerrygold on Nov 10, 2015 21:14:33 GMT
Rule casts doubt on call to send Legion on to Munster as Kerry's representatives Colm Keys Twitter EMAIL PUBLISHED 10/11/2015 Anger is palpable in Dingle over the decision of the Kerry County Board to nominate Legion as the county's representatives for Sunday's Munster Club Championship game against Cork kingpins Nemo Rangers.
The decision follows the drawn county senior final between Legion and South Kerry which placed an added and unenviable burden on board officials.
Had Legion lost to South Kerry, Dingle would have been the county's Munster club championship representatives, courtesy of their Kerry club championship win earlier this year because the provincial club championships do not cater for divisional teams.
The Kerry structures are unique in that the 11 senior clubs play for a senior club championship and are then joined by nine divisional and district teams (South Kerry, Mid Kerry, Kenmare District, etc), which incorporate amalgamations from all the intermediate and junior clubs, for the senior county championship.
Dingle were of the understanding that because the replay of the county final was put back to November 22, due to the involvement of St Mary's Cahirsiveen (they had five players starting for South Kerry in last Sunday's game) in the Munster intermediate semi-final against Clare's Corofin on Saturday, they would go forward to represent Kerry.
However, the Kerry County Board has a regulation stating that "in the case of the senior football championship Kerry shall be represented by the longest standing club in the county senior football championship with the following exceptions where the county shall be represented by the winners of the Kerry club championship where the county championship is not completed and all club teams have been eliminated."
If the interpretation of a rule in the GAA's Official Guide was strictly adhered to, Kerry may not be entitled to representation at all in Munster because their county championship is not complete.
Rule 6.24 (a) states that "in the event of a County or Provincial Championship not being completed, the respective Provincial or All-Ireland Championship shall continue without a representative of the county or province concerned."
Any interpretation of this rule, which clearly prevents counties who haven't completed their county championships from nominating representatives, raises questions over Legion's participation in the Munster club championship.
Kerry's bye-law is clear but it appears to be in direct contravention of the Official Guide and it raises the question as to how a of a bye-law can supplant general rule in this manner. The matter was being discussed at a Munster Management Committee meeting last night.
Kerry officials had been in touch with Munster officials on their predicament before arriving at their decision yesterday morning to give the green light to Legion.
Dingle chairman Jimmy Bambury has said his club are asking Kerry to review the decision they have taken to nominate Legion.
"Best of luck to Legion, but if they go forward they could win the Munster and All-Ireland club championship, possibly not having won either the county championship or the club championship," he said.
"We are disappointed. We were chomping at the bit to go and we would have understood, if Legion won the county championship, that they would go forward and represent our county.
"We understood on Sunday night that, when the county championship was going back, the only fall-back was the club championship which we have won. Myself and the manager (Paul Fitzmaurice) were making preparations to play Nemo.
Disagree
"That didn't happen. There is a rule being cited to us now. People will say it is clear and distinct. I disagree," he said. "It says the last club standing in the event of the county championship represents the county. What would be the case if there was two clubs?" he asked.
"We're not so sure about the rule being cited. We don't think is it foolproof."
Bambury echoed the view of county player Paul Geaney earlier in the day that the status of the club championship had been damaged by this decision.
"That was one of the big selling points of that competition. One of its big promotional points, that you had that second bite of the cherry to get into the Munster championship.
"It had that importance and but this diminishes the importance of that competition. That's not ideal."
He supported the divisional model used by Kerry, however, because it potentially afforded every player in the county an opportunity to win the premier title.
Earlier in the day, Dingle manager Paul Fitzmaurice took the Kerry County Board to task over the fixtures issue.
"There's too much going on. There were players on the county panel that saw no game time and yet they were pulled from teams this year.
"It's not good enough, the whole thing is being strangled for the smallest number of players," he told Radio Kerry.
"Realistically these fellas are still developing and it's not fair. It's an abuse of their capabilities.
"The whole system is just wrong within the county and (with) this fiasco, I'm afraid the County Board have been shown up."
Irish Independent
So where did Keys hear about the 9 district teams?
|
|
|
Post by kerrygold on Nov 10, 2015 21:18:08 GMT
Legion decision called into question Colm Keys Twitter
PUBLISHED 10/11/2015
'Whether Kerry should have representatives in Munster after failing to complete their championship on time is now open to question' The decision to nominate Legion as Kerry's representatives in the Munster club football championships came under scrutiny last night with questions over whether it has contravened the GAA's Official Guide.
Kerry consulted the Munster Council before postponing their replay for a further eight days and then indicating that Legion, who drew the county final with South Kerry, should face Nemo Rangers in the Munster semi-final.
A Kerry competition regulation allows for the last standing club to advance in the event of their county championship not being completed. However this would appear to conflict with the Rule 6.24 (a) of the GAA's Official Guide which states that "in the event of a County or Provincial Championship not being completed, the respective Provincial or All-Ireland Championship shall continue without a representative of the county or province concerned".
Whether Kerry should have representatives in Munster after failing to complete their championship on time is now open to question. The decision invites the perception that Kerry are being treated differently because of their divisional structure.
Last year Tipperary had to forego involvement in the Munster club SFC because their championship wasn't completed.
Irish Independent
|
|
|
Post by sidelined on Nov 10, 2015 23:20:05 GMT
call frank murphy on 021....... to resolve this shambles.
|
|
|
Post by kerrygold on Nov 11, 2015 9:14:18 GMT
Martin Breheny: Kerry and Waterford sagas underpinned by nonsense
PUBLISHED 11/11/2015
As a microcosm of the long-standing and totally unnecessary irritants which continue to afflict the GAA, last weekend's Kerry and Waterford county football finals hit the spot.
Kerry delivered controversies over time-keeping, discipline and fixture chaos, while Stradbally's reward for winning the Waterford title on Friday night was to be forced into a Munster championship tie on Saturday.
Portlaoise survived a similar scenario last month but they were playing Carlow champions, Palatine, whereas Stradbally lined up against Nemo Rangers, the most successful club in the history of the All-Ireland championships.
Not surprisingly, Stradbally were well beaten, leaving manager Pat Curran outraged at the workload imposed on his players.
Disgrace
He described it as "a complete and utter disgrace" and added that the Waterford County Board should be "ashamed of themselves from top to bottom".
He also urged football clubs to stand up for themselves, noting how he admires the hurling clubs, who "fight their own corner".
Curran is right about the ridiculously unfair demands placed on his squad, but when it comes to slating the county board, the question arises: who exactly makes the decisions?
Clubs everywhere are represented on county boards so if the system is working even reasonably efficiently, administrators have to abide by club instructions when it comes to structuring fixtures.
The executive of county boards usually take the flak when unsustainable situations, similar to Stradbally's experience, arise but it's rarely that simple.
I questioned here in recent weeks why the Laois football championship was completed so late, despite the county team being eliminated from the All-Ireland race in June.
It transpires that clubs in both codes decided on the late start to the championships.
Buck-passing happens everywhere. Just as clubs will make a decision and later blame county administrators for enacting it, counties sometimes support a proposal, whether at Congress or Central Council, only to castigate "that crowd in Croke Park" when the impact of its implementation doesn't suit a specific case.
Waterford's fixture problem on Friday/Saturday became Kerry's issue on Sunday when Killarney Legion and South Kerry drew in the county final, sparking a difficulty over who would represent the county in the Munster championship next weekend.
Yet again, the late completion of a county championship had created a mess. Kerry will argue that their involvement in the All-Ireland final left them with little wriggle room but, of all counties, they are most accustomed to September activity in Croke Park.
Surely, they can devise a system that doesn't leave them without county champions by mid-November.
Apart from the replay and Munster championship dilemma, the Kerry final threw up some other talking points too, including the referee being escorted off the pitch by gardaí at the end of the game, a dispute over whether a wide was flagged as a point, plus the mystery of the extra stoppage time.
On the latter issue, not playing enough stoppage time is quite common but, in Kerry's case, it came as a surprise that almost four minutes were added when only two were signalled.
All of this uncertainty could have been eliminated from the entire GAA landscape if the clock/hooter, as proposed, and twice passed by Congress, had been introduced.
Instead, it allegedly failed a series of trials but instead of sorting out the anomalies, Congress dispensed altogether with the concept.
A final point on the incidents at the end of the Kerry final and the embarrassing pictures of gardaí escorting the referee off the field. It's just not good enough to claim that it was all down to passions and emotions running high on county final day.
That sort of nonsense has been tolerated for far too long all over the country. Gardaí have far more to be doing than providing safe passage for referees from people who can't control their temper.
Irish Independent
|
|
|
Post by kerrygold on Nov 11, 2015 9:29:41 GMT
Obviously Breheny wasn't at this game but he'll still give his tuppence worth on Kerry football.
Shortly after the free that was wide and given with 10 or 12 minutes to go the two guards in question moved from back of the stand and went down the centre isle to the pitch exit gate behind the dugouts. Whether they were requested to do so or not we can't say. The game was tight so maybe they moved on their own initiative.
After the final whistle the flash point was obviously inflamed by verbals exchanged between both teams. The ref was well away from the periphery of the flash point was not in threat or was he the source of the flash point. He had turned to leave the field and turned back again but was possibly advised not to get involved, I'd imagine by the two guards who had by now made their way to him and walked off the field with the ref towards the dressingrooms.
The flash point was between the players and did not involve the ref. It is a pity journalists in the national media don't refrain from printing bull*e in the media when they weren't at the game. Of course Kerry are an easy target for some.
|
|
|
Post by kerrygold on Nov 11, 2015 9:46:23 GMT
One of the main issues in Kerry is the amount of games that have to be played involving club and district teams. One issue Laois and Waterford didn't have to content with is the "The Mary's Factor" where the club were also due to play next weekend in the Munster intermediate championship while also a part of the South Kerry district championship team.
The Kerry County board have a difficult task in hand to manage all games and more so when Kerry are successful during most summers. The KCB generally have all championships more or less at semi final stage before the August/September Croke Park window. I don't think they can do much more than that. Asking players who have played in an Ireland final to line out the following weekend in the county championship isn't on either, more so if they lose the final.
At some point the clubs are going to have the grasp the nettle of decoupling county players from the county league and get on with it if they want continuous football. Why not play the county league during the year, home and away, 20 games or so, without the county players and tighten up the championships as suggested in the other thread. Championship 1 for senior club team with a losers round, with the winner representing Kerry in Munster and championship 2 for the district teams without a losers round with the players going back to their junior and intermediate clubs. Championship winner 1 and championship winner two play in the Kerry county final thereafter requiring three games after Kerry's exit from the championship.
The clubs are the county board and the county board are the clubs. It is too easy to blame the county board for everything that goes wrong with the fixtures.
|
|
Jigz84
Fanatical Member
Posts: 2,017
|
Post by Jigz84 on Nov 11, 2015 10:17:19 GMT
www.irishexaminer.com/sport/gaa/football/noel-walsh-brands-kerry-county-boards-legion-ruling-as-farcical-364279.htmlNoel Walsh brands Kerry County Board’s Legion ruling as ‘farcical’Former Munster Council chairman Noel Walsh has described the decision of the Kerry County Board to nominate Legion as the county’s representatives for Sunday’s Munster Club SFC semi-final as “farcical”. Walsh empathised with Kerry Club Championship winners Dingle, who were overlooked after the citing of a bye-law which states: “In the case of the senior football championship, Kerry shall be represented by the longest standing club in the county senior football championship with the following exceptions — where the county shall be represented by the winners of the Kerry Club Championship: (a) Where the county championship is completed and won by a divisional/group team. (b) Where the county championship is not completed and all club teams have been eliminated.” The Miltown-Malbay native lamented the uneven playing field which saw Stradbally forced to play two games in the space of 23 hours to ensure Waterford representation in the provincial championship, whereas Legion have been afforded the opportunity to line out against Nemo Rangers on Sunday and then return to play South Kerry in the replayed senior championship county final the following weekend. “The rules should be no different for Kerry as they are for Waterford or Limerick. The rules should apply equally to every county,” remarked Walsh. There is a big question now over Legion being nominated to the Munster championship. If they lose to Nemo, they go back then a week later to play the county championship which, in my mind, is farcical. “Dingle are right to be sore. The reward for winning the club championship in Kerry is representing the county if the county championship hasn’t been finished or has been won by a divisional outfit. Why is it changed now? “Somebody of influence came up with this solution. I never heard of this rule that is being cited. Kerry and Cork in football have always been a law unto themselves.” The two most recent club controversies in Munster, added to the backlog in Laois two-weeks ago which forced Portlaoise to play the county final on a Saturday and the first round of the Leinster SFC 24-hours later, is further evidence of the requirement to prioritise club players during the summer, according to Walsh. “If these championships were played off during the summer, we wouldn’t have situations like this. Every county, irrespective of how successful their county team is, should be able to finish off their championships on time. What is going on at the moment isn’t satisfactory. I thought it terrible the Waterford football champions had to go out and play Nemo so soon after winning their county championship. That wasn’t the fault of the current system, that was the fault of the Waterford County Board. “Waterford football team was knocked out of the championship at a very early stage and while the hurlers went a bit further, there was no justification for Waterford not having their county championship finished. Inefficiencies within the counties will have to be dealt with, and there are quite a lot of those.” Meanwhile, GAA director general Páraic Duffy says “there is no excuse” for situations arising where club teams have to play two championship games in the space of 24 hours. “Maybe we need to do more in holding county boards to account,” he told Newstalk’s Off The Ball last night. “We cannot go into every county and run their competitions for them. They have got to run their own affairs. No structure, even as bad and all as it may be at the moment, can justify what happened [in Laois and Waterford]. There aren’t very many football people in Waterford who would be happy with what happened with the Waterford football championship this year. “There is huge discontent among the club players. Number one, they want more games. Number two, they want more games during the summer months and number three, they want more games alongside the very best players. I spoke with Jack McCaffrey’s dad at the All Stars, one of the dregs they have in Clontarf, and this is not Jack’s fault, but he rarely plays with Clontarf and the players in Clontarf rarely get a chance to play with the best player in the country. That’s not right.”
|
|
|
Post by onlykerry on Nov 11, 2015 10:21:33 GMT
Junior Co C'ship - First games 19/April - NO GAME FROM 3/May to 26/Sept I'Mediate Co C'ship - First game 18/April - NO GAME FROM 2/May to 17/Oct Senior Club C'ship - First game 18/April - NO GAME FROM 17/May to 27/Sept Senior Co C'ship - First game 23/May - NO GAME FROM 20/June to 27/Sept Now we all support the county team but it is crazy that the hundreds of players in the county are not playing championship football in the prime months of the year because of 4-5 intercounty games where the 32/33 senior intercounty players are being "wrapped in cotton wool". Throw in players playing in two grades (eg junior and division) plus replays and a mess is guaranteed. This is not even mentioning player welfare which should also be a major factor in planning fixture lists.
|
|
|
Post by buck02 on Nov 12, 2015 8:46:50 GMT
I recall on this thread a lot of people giving out when the county board fixed a round of the championship that meant West Kerry were playing in the losers round the same weekend as one of their clubs was to play in Comortas Peil. I think this game was eventually called off.
Damned if you do, damned if you don't.
|
|
|
Post by kerrygold on Nov 12, 2015 9:11:45 GMT
Club championship games in the big intercounty championship windows of preparation isn't going to happen either.
|
|