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Post by fireeye2014 on Mar 31, 2015 10:23:56 GMT
Well guys, after the co meeting last night radical change to the co championships going forward - 3 clubs being demoted from senior championship at the end of this year - which will have a knock on effect on the teams in the intermediate championship with a number of them (3 or 4 I'm not sure) going down to the junior championship which will be rebranded...strange initative - not sure that pushing 3 clubs out of the senior was the way to go but do agree that there is 1 or 2 teams out of their depth up there...of the club teams in senior you have Crokes, Stacks, Rahillys, Legion, Ardfert, L Rangers, Milltown, Dingle, Rathmore, St Michaels Foilmore & Kilcummin. Of those teams the ones I see in danger are Milltown, Ardfert, St Michaels, Kilcummin and Rangers - think the rest will be ok....not sure if they will seed groups later on but as I understand it the 2 club champ finalists will be exempt and the other 9 teams will play in 3 groups of 3 with the bottom team in each group going....a lot will depend on that draw for sure!! So for me probably looks like 3 out of 5 or maybe 6 with Rathmore there too.....interesting times ahead - looks like there will be a mini championship this year at the end of the county championship!!
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Post by finuge86 on Mar 31, 2015 12:55:14 GMT
Does that mean so that Austin stacks could in theory win the club championship an then perhaps gettin drawn into a league with kerins o rahillys an maybe the likes of dingle an finish bottom of the league an get relegated??
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Post by fireeye2014 on Mar 31, 2015 13:32:48 GMT
No the 2 finalists in the Kerry senior club championship will not be in the 9 facing the fight for survival...they will be safe - 6 of the other 9 teams will join them - so the 3 bottom teams in the 3 groups will head for intermediate...a couple of divisional sides will in theiry get stronger next year but I would reckon some of the players that will drop down might not play for their divisions!!
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Post by thechosenone on Mar 31, 2015 14:28:58 GMT
In the event that none of the big teams make the senior club final you'd imagine there will be some sort of seeding to avoid the likes of Crokes stacks and Kerins O'Rahillys ending up in the same group.
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Post by themanhimself on Mar 31, 2015 14:40:32 GMT
Crokes players would make a great job of east kerry!!!
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Post by givehimaball on Mar 31, 2015 15:40:57 GMT
Was there any sort of an explanation as to what benefits this change are supposed to make?
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Post by Mickmack on Mar 31, 2015 15:51:51 GMT
Cui bono
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Post by Annascaultilidie on Mar 31, 2015 16:13:24 GMT
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Post by givehimaball on Mar 31, 2015 16:15:06 GMT
Koo-koo Ka-Choo...... Seriously what problem is this change supposed to solve or what benefit does it provide?
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Post by Annascaultilidie on Mar 31, 2015 16:17:18 GMT
Koo-koo Ka-Choo...... Seriously what problem is this change supposed to solve or what benefit does it provide? Shut the f**k up Donny.
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Post by givehimaball on Mar 31, 2015 16:17:43 GMT
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Post by finuge86 on Mar 31, 2015 16:21:48 GMT
Nowhere does it say anything about seeding in that case lets say stacks an crokes make the final what's to stop one group lookin lik foilmore ardfert kilcummin and another having kerins o rahillys dingle rathmore in it it's a bit up in the air I think
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Post by kerrybhoy06 on Mar 31, 2015 16:29:40 GMT
On the seeding- surely 1 of the clubs must have raised this? Like it or lump it- the county board did circulate the proposal and ask for feedback- hence the Mitchels proposal.
I'm not sure do I agree with it as the overall benefit hasnt been outlined but its up to the clubs to ask these questions/table amendments to the motion; from the looks of things they either mostly agreed with it or just didnt bother.
If there is no seeding and (for example) Rathmore get a stinker of a group and get relegated- then it really is tough sh*t as they have all had the opportunity to seek clarity on this or propose it.
If there is no seeding (once again-I;m not sure) and someone gets relegated then 6 months time isnt when they should have whinged- they should have done it prior to the vote.
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Post by Annascaultilidie on Mar 31, 2015 16:32:48 GMT
When do they think they are going to play these games?
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Post by himself on Mar 31, 2015 18:14:19 GMT
The prospect of seeding was raised. Tony O'Keeffe replied that a strong principle of their proposals was treating clubs equally - there would be no question of seeding. The nine teams would be drawn out of a hat in three groups of three, all games to be played in neutral venues. In the unlikely event of a team in that 'senior club relegation competition' heading for relegation but reaching the County Final in the 2015 County Championship, the process will be re-visited and amended to prevent that club being relegated. In the Intermediate, the eight losers of the first round games will play off against each other, with the four losers being relegated. 32 teams will compete in the first round of the Junior, with the 16 winners going on to compete in the Premier Junior and the losing 16 competing in the Junior (formerly the Novice Championship). There will be no promotion from Intermediate or Junior for this year only, next year promotion and relegation will revert to normal. It was argued from the floor that the fact of the first round games being played on a home or away basis, and the fact of five byes in the senior club championship opening round, created an inherent unfairness, but this was rejected on the basis that it's already run that way. Mitchels, whose proposal was superbly presented by their delegate, did have a small typo in their proposal which apparently confused some clubs. That's unfortunate, because they clearly put a lot of honest effort and thought into their proposal, which would have seen two teams relegated and one promoted each year for the next three years. As for cui bono? One delegate did point out that we are looking at changing a system that currently has us as All Ireland senior and minor champions, All Ireland Junior Finalists, Munster Senior, Intermediate, Junior, and Novice club champions, and All Ireland Intermediate and Junior club winners.... You'd almost get the impression that some delegates considered that a reasonable medal collection for one year.... The fact is that the County Championship over the past few years has come in for strong criticism in many quarters (including me, I've watched an awful lot of below par games, especially early on but including the four appallingly one-sided semi-finals in the past two years). When the Review Committee was set up, people were worried about how easily Crokes were dominating Kerry with ease and it wasn't helping hone them for later on. The fact is that they won the 2013 County Championship with embarrassing ease. Meanwhile, there were teams coming up from Intermediate that weren't strong enough, and were also leaving gaping holes in divisional sides. The grounds for review were agreed around this time last year, Tony O'Keeffe and co. did a lot of research and consultation, and came back at the November Meeting with 11 proposals. On the night, the only one voted on was to reduce the club teams in the senior competition from 11 to 8. The remaining proposals will be discussed at the next County Board Meeting. Eliminating the back door is one of them.... Oh, please, please God....the last time I ever asked you for anything it was Seamus Darby, you owe me this one....please, please, please no more drawn out rigmarole of a back door...... Seriously, if any club wants to contact me about the possibility of bribes for votes, I'm really open to negotiation on this one.
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Post by buck02 on Mar 31, 2015 20:14:14 GMT
Was there any sort of an explanation as to what benefits this change are supposed to make? Less weaker teams in the county championship? Stronger divisional teams? A better county championship?
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Premier
Fanatical Member
Posts: 1,176
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Post by Premier on Mar 31, 2015 20:21:43 GMT
The prospect of seeding was raised. Tony O'Keeffe replied that a strong principle of their proposals was treating clubs equally - there would be no question of seeding. The nine teams would be drawn out of a hat in three groups of three, all games to be played in neutral venues. In the unlikely event of a team in that 'senior club relegation competition' heading for relegation but reaching the County Final in the 2015 County Championship, the process will be re-visited and amended to prevent that club being relegated. In the Intermediate, the eight losers of the first round games will play off against each other, with the four losers being relegated. 32 teams will compete in the first round of the Junior, with the 16 winners going on to compete in the Premier Junior and the losing 16 competing in the Junior (formerly the Novice Championship). There will be no promotion from Intermediate or Junior for this year only, next year promotion and relegation will revert to normal. It was argued from the floor that the fact of the first round games being played on a home or away basis, and the fact of five byes in the senior club championship opening round, created an inherent unfairness, but this was rejected on the basis that it's already run that way. Mitchels, whose proposal was superbly presented by their delegate, did have a small typo in their proposal which apparently confused some clubs. That's unfortunate, because they clearly put a lot of honest effort and thought into their proposal, which would have seen two teams relegated and one promoted each year for the next three years. As for cui bono? One delegate did point out that we are looking at changing a system that currently has us as All Ireland senior and minor champions, All Ireland Junior Finalists, Munster Senior, Intermediate, Junior, and Novice club champions, and All Ireland Intermediate and Junior club winners.... You'd almost get the impression that some delegates considered that a reasonable medal collection for one year.... The fact is that the County Championship over the past few years has come in for strong criticism in many quarters (including me, I've watched an awful lot of below par games, especially early on but including the four appallingly one-sided semi-finals in the past two years). When the Review Committee was set up, people were worried about how easily Crokes were dominating Kerry with ease and it wasn't helping hone them for later on. The fact is that they won the 2013 County Championship with embarrassing ease. Meanwhile, there were teams coming up from Intermediate that weren't strong enough, and were also leaving gaping holes in divisional sides. The grounds for review were agreed around this time last year, Tony O'Keeffe and co. did a lot of research and consultation, and came back at the November Meeting with 11 proposals. On the night, the only one voted on was to reduce the club teams in the senior competition from 11 to 8. The remaining proposals will be discussed at the next County Board Meeting. Eliminating the back door is one of them.... Oh, please, please God....the last time I ever asked you for anything it was Seamus Darby, you owe me this one....please, please, please no more drawn out rigmarole of a back door...... Seriously, if any club wants to contact me about the possibility of bribes for votes, I'm really open to negotiation on this one. Christ, there's a lot at stake on the 19th of April so
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Post by kerrygold on Apr 1, 2015 9:23:40 GMT
It is a good thing to strengthen the quality of the teams in the senior county championship. If this has a knock on effect and strengthens the quality of district teams, so be it.
Intermediate winners going senior should be operating in Div 1. of the county league in my opinion before being allowed go senior.
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Post by kerrygold on Apr 1, 2015 9:26:27 GMT
Was there any sort of an explanation as to what benefits this change are supposed to make? Less weaker teams in the county championship? Stronger divisional teams? A better county championship? You might still not improved the district teams as strong junior and intermediate teams might focus on the road to Croker. Still fewer weaker teams in the county championship is a good thing. Do they need to look at serial poor performing district teams playing in the county championship also?
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Post by Annascaultilidie on Apr 1, 2015 10:04:50 GMT
I think there should be a round robin of district teams to weed out teams who are not taking the championship serious enough.
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Post by mushroom on Apr 1, 2015 14:47:55 GMT
3 Senior teams being relegated will prevent approx. 60 players, presuming 5 players from each relegated team getting on their district team, from playing senior Championship for their respective clubs from 2016 is a complete joke in my opinion.
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Premier
Fanatical Member
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Post by Premier on Apr 1, 2015 15:09:18 GMT
3 Senior teams being relegated will prevent approx. 60 players, presuming 5 players from each relegated team getting on their district team, from playing senior Championship for their respective clubs from 2016 is a complete joke in my opinion. If the clubs are only winning 1 first round game every few years, and then playing in relegation play-offs most years then do they really deserve to be there? This system will make more of the games competitive and make it more of a privilege to get onto your divisional team rather than just walking onto it cause no1 else could be bothered
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Post by badknee on Apr 1, 2015 23:26:31 GMT
Himself the junior winners are promoted this year hence why there is 4 intermediate teams getting relegated. Intermediate is the only grade where there is nobody getting promoted
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Post by themanhimself on Apr 2, 2015 9:55:10 GMT
I think its a good plan, It will probably take 2 or 3 years to get a balance again. Something had to be done. The last couple of years you could pick the winners from 3 or 4 teams. Crokes. Stacks. South Kerry. Mid Kerry typically
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Post by onlykerry on Apr 2, 2015 10:13:04 GMT
Agree that games county championship need to be made more competitive - surely using existing competitions to gain qualification to the county championship was the route rather than introducing more qualification games. Look at the fixture pile up that already exists and the 29 weeks it takes to play 11 league games.
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Post by himself on Apr 3, 2015 10:25:10 GMT
Much appreciated, badknee, I missed that.
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Post by greengold35 on Apr 3, 2015 18:49:22 GMT
I am not sure this will have the effect that's being sought. All clubs , bar none, prepare the best that they can to be competitive in the county championship; the same cannot be said for divisional sides who have issues like local rivalry etc to overcome when pulling a team together. There is nothing in this about player development and giving more games to players who ply their trade in the lower divisions; the county championships should be a show case for players who want to play at the highest level; I am alluding to U-21s like Jack Barry & Eanna O'Conchuir; their respective divisional sides have not made any real impact in the co championship of late and with the proposed knock out system from 2016 it's unlikely to change. Given that we had 20 teams in the competition why did we not look at a group system, 5 teams in each guaranteeing each side 4 games in the qualifying stages; these groups could be a mix of clubs & divisional sides; top 4 teams progress to semi finals, bottom sides could play off for relegation. This way players on he fringes could test themselves against the top players which would undoubtedly improve them; a better championship with the best teams progressing- still less games overall than that being proposed- cannot see how we will get the time in an already congested fixture list to play off these games to relegate 3 clubs. Also, think it's unconstitutional to determine from one competition ( club) who will play in another!
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Post by glengael on Apr 25, 2015 16:34:47 GMT
Draw made today.
1. Shannon Rangers V Dr. Crokes
2. Mid Kerry V Killarney Legion
3.Kilcummin V South Kerry
4.Laune Rangers V West Kerry
5.St Kieran's V Feale Rangers
6.East Kerry V Ardfert
7.Milltown/Castlemaine V Dingle
8.Kerins O'Rahilly's V Rathmore
9. Austin Stacks V St Michael's Foilmore
10. Kenmare Districk V St Brendan's
Round 1 : 23/24 May. The CCC will fix the times & venues
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Post by ataboy on Apr 25, 2015 17:13:44 GMT
Draw made today. 1. Shannon Rangers V Dr. Crokes 2. Mid Kerry V Killarney Legion 3.Kilcummin V South Kerry 4.Laune Rangers V West Kerry 5.St Kieran's V Feale Rangers 6.East Kerry V Ardfert 7.Milltown/Castlemaine V Dingle 8.Kerins O'Rahilly's V Rathmore 9. Austin Stacks V St Michael's Foilmore 10. Kenmare Districk V St Brendan's Round 1 : 23/24 May. The CCC will fix the times & venues Is this straight knockout Seamus?
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Post by tadgh10 on Apr 25, 2015 17:18:57 GMT
No there is a losers round first round
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