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Post by MrRasherstoyou on May 10, 2015 23:50:19 GMT
Re the Dubs in Croker issue..... I don't give a fiddlers about recent history or ancient history as to why Dublin get preferential treatment or who is making the decision. The basic point is that they do. Its just one example of a skewed competition. And its a bit rich for Dub fans to take the high moral ground by saying that competitions have to have the same rules for all. Going back to my original suggestion.... not giving a back door route to three recent winners might tip the scales in favour of a team trying to make a breakthrough and who has to overcome what are rapidly becoming insurmountable odds. Well tell it to the Leinster counties who are voting not to play Leinster qtr finals on their home grounds. Not a decision made by us. Therefore I can say whatever I like about fairness of competitions, it's not even got anything to do with any teams outside Leinster. Bit of a difference between that and giving most teams 2 chances and a few teams one chance in a competition, so how about you stop pulling out red herrings and come up with something solid to back your argument? And if it's such a great idea then what about the really good teams who didn't win Sam in the last 3 years, you're saying they should get double the chances in the competition of teams that won an All-I maybe 2 or 3 years ago? Daft.
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Post by MrRasherstoyou on May 11, 2015 0:03:07 GMT
I didnt realize that playing football in croke park against dublin was such a big issue for some kerry supporters. It was never an issue in the past. I am not sure how the gaa could be expected to have an all ireland final with dublin in it in a stadium with a capacity of 40000 people. If it is an unfair advantage, then I am not sure that there is an alternative except to build an 80000 stadium in athlone. Then what would we do with croke park? I love going to watch dublin in croke park when we are playing them, it is a real event. Your comment is based on what? 1 or 2 comments here? Don't tar a whole county based on 1 or 2 posts here. Why would Kerry people have a problem with playing an All-Ireland final v Dublin in Croke Park? Sure didn't we want to play our semi final v Mayo in Croke Park!! Is it really that sacrilegious that Dublin should have to travel for a few Leinster championship games? Nobody expects them to play a Leinster final or AI AF, SF and Final in Croke Park! It would be great if the GAA actually thought a little bit more about growing the game in some of the weaker counties. I am sure that it would be a great boost for kids in Carlow, Longford etc. to have the Brogan's and others rock up to a stadium within their county. Sacrilegious? Come on man, did you not read the rest of the posts? The other Leinster counties don't want it. It would be only one, max two games a year anyway. The All-I quarter finals have also been offered out and teams have opted to play in Croker. Vast majority of Dublin supporters would prefer if some games were out of Croker, we don't get listened to by the GAC. And for the record, even when we didn't have a team as strong as now, we had a great record outside Croker. In Leinster we hadn't lost a game between 1981 and 2004, that's 33 years, after which they stopped having our games outside. We also didn't lose outside Croke Park between 1974 and 1981. So once in 40 years. In championship beyond Leinster of course there haven't been many games, partly because we haven't been in the qualifiers much. But we've only lost one (a replay, by 3 points, to Kerry, All-I champions) of 6 games.
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Post by MrRasherstoyou on May 11, 2015 0:05:54 GMT
For me, it isn't about where Dublin play Leinster championship games. Let's face it, Dubs v Carlow or whoever is a no-contest, whether it's home, away or on the moon. The real issue, I think, is a team having home advantage for every game that matters i.e. August onwards. Now there's no argument with playing the AI final at Croker, that's a given, but there should be a level playing field for other games. Semis should always be at neutral venues. Q/Fs should be either neutral or, better still, choice of venue to provincial winners (and if, as is likely, that includes the Dubs, well and good). Plenty of good grounds about to hold these games and so what if every supporter can't be accommodated - not everyone gets a ticket for the final either. It could be done, why not? A lot of money that's shared out between all counties would be lost, but money isn't everything. It's what all other counties seem to value the most though.
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Post by MrRasherstoyou on May 11, 2015 0:09:12 GMT
The Spring Series during the Gilroy era, played a huge role in leading the startled earwigs into the light. Dublin enjoy a special privilege and major advantage in Dubs Park no other county enjoys anywhere else. Bottom line, Dublin wouldn't come down to Killarney to play Kerry in an All-Ireland final. The usual Dublin spin would be rolled out from the Dubs. Be careful what you wish for. In any case, if it was in Killarney, I've no doubt somehow you would find some way to complain about it not being fair to Kerry!
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Post by Mickmack on May 11, 2015 7:18:59 GMT
Re the Dubs in Croker issue..... I don't give a fiddlers about recent history or ancient history as to why Dublin get preferential treatment or who is making the decision. The basic point is that they do. Its just one example of a skewed competition. And its a bit rich for Dub fans to take the high moral ground by saying that competitions have to have the same rules for all. Going back to my original suggestion.... not giving a back door route to three recent winners might tip the scales in favour of a team trying to make a breakthrough and who has to overcome what are rapidly becoming insurmountable odds. Well tell it to the Leinster counties who are voting not to play Leinster qtr finals on their home grounds. Not a decision made by us. Therefore I can say whatever I like about fairness of competitions, it's not even got anything to do with any teams outside Leinster. Bit of a difference between that and giving most teams 2 chances and a few teams one chance in a competition, so how about you stop pulling out red herrings and come up with something solid to back your argument? And if it's such a great idea then what about the really good teams who didn't win Sam in the last 3 years, you're saying they should get double the chances in the competition of teams that won an All-I maybe 2 or 3 years ago? Daft. that's exactly what I am saying. Consider it daft if you like. The Dubs needed very controversial last minute decisions to win two of their last three SAMS but only the Dubs get that break. I am talking about giving all aspirants a break.
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Post by kerrygold on May 11, 2015 8:54:14 GMT
The Spring Series during the Gilroy era, played a huge role in leading the startled earwigs into the light. Dublin enjoy a special privilege and major advantage in Dubs Park no other county enjoys anywhere else. Bottom line, Dublin wouldn't come down to Killarney to play Kerry in an All-Ireland final. The usual Dublin spin would be rolled out from the Dubs. Be careful what you wish for. In any case, if it was in Killarney, I've no doubt somehow you would find some way to complain about it not being fair to Kerry! Nothing in that or in your discussions on this thread to substantiate your argument as to why Dublin should continue to play the very vast majority of all their games in Dubs Park.
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Post by glengael on May 11, 2015 12:55:53 GMT
Why to which bit, 1. closing the League thread or 2. opening a new one on the fairness/unfairness of venues? If 1. Because the League is over, even for Non-Kerry teams. If 2. Because there seems to be an appetite for discussion on this. The discussion centres around venues for the championship, not, as far as I can see, venues for Non-Kerry League games, which what this thread is supposed to be about. and what's wrong with leaving the discussion here. Maybe the interests of clarity so that the discussion reflects in some way the title of the thread?
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Post by Dermot on May 11, 2015 14:33:02 GMT
The idea mentioned was only to exclude the team(s) who won the AI in the last 3 years from being allowed a second chance .. This seems quite reasonable to me. Also, its not too often that we'll be subjecting this to a lower/middle tear team as they "probably" wont be winning the AI anyway ... The idea is to let them get a better run in the competition with the possibility of winning it (to allow them to keep interested and hopefully improve) .. and not having to beat a top team that have already been beaten, possibly even by them, would certainly help! So what you're saying is that if Tyrone, after winning their first ever All-I in 2003, had no second chance in 2005, it would have seemed quite reasonable to you? Yes ... and I did allude to this in a previous post ..i.e. that it would have played against us !!
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Post by Dermot on May 11, 2015 14:38:13 GMT
Are some people really advocating that more successful teams be handicapped in some way ? This is nuts. "the current system sorta ensures that one of the usual suspects will win the AI every year" (Dermot). So what? One of the "usual suspects" wins in most sports every year. That's the nature of sport. How many different teams win the World Cup, the Rugby World Cup, the Premiership ? - fewer than win the AI , that's for sure. The back-door does not reinforce this, nor was it intended to. In fact, if anything there's been a greater spread of winners since it's inception, though this is probably coincidental . The backdoor was designed (and with the weaker teams in mind) to ensure at least more than one game for everyone, nothing else. It does this, and it's good. I dont t hink it is a case of success being punished. It is more a case of giving an incentive to teams down the order to have a longer run in the championship. Look I would be shooting myself in the foot as a donegal supporter by suggesting this, but I see how it is good for the game in the long run. The American football competition is benefited by negative handicapping in financial terms every year. The lowest finishing side gets the most money the following year and the converse is the case for the top side. This is reflected in the number of different superbowl finalists every year. Good point about the american football .. didnt know that!
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Post by skybluezone on May 11, 2015 16:16:24 GMT
Well tell it to the Leinster counties who are voting not to play Leinster qtr finals on their home grounds. Not a decision made by us. Therefore I can say whatever I like about fairness of competitions, it's not even got anything to do with any teams outside Leinster. Bit of a difference between that and giving most teams 2 chances and a few teams one chance in a competition, so how about you stop pulling out red herrings and come up with something solid to back your argument? And if it's such a great idea then what about the really good teams who didn't win Sam in the last 3 years, you're saying they should get double the chances in the competition of teams that won an All-I maybe 2 or 3 years ago? Daft. that's exactly what I am saying. Consider it daft if you like. The Dubs needed very controversial last minute decisions to win two of their last three SAMS but only the Dubs get that break. I am talking about giving all aspirants a break. So now we're veering into anti Dubs territory, where we have all the people, all the money, home pitch for every game, our own personal ref (take a bow Joe McQuillan), and are positively favoured in every controversial refereeing decision. Which is why Dublin GAA in general is suspicious of the motives of the "out of Croke Park" movement. Obviously I'm over egging it here on what Dublin have that the rest have not, but you get the picture. Bit surprised at Mickmack bringing up the "controversial last minute decisions" card. I don't really see it's relevance in this debate but if it adds to the clamour to change then I suppose it's fair game. Throw enough mud and all that. There is no way Dublin could win SAM without a helping hand of some description! Not going to repeat all I said in an earlier post but we are talking about Dublin playing a Leinster QF away from Croke Park every second year. A lot of noise being generated just to achieve this outcome, that's where the suspicion lies from a Dublin perspective I suppose. Dublin GAA cannot win this argument, in fact they shouldn't even be having it. The debate should be between GAA HQ and the county representatives on the Leinster council. For what it's worth, I'd be delighted to go on the road for a Leinster QF, but if we win an All Ireland having done so you'd wonder what the next reason on the list as to how Dublin managed to win it would be.
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Post by kerrygold on May 11, 2015 18:26:25 GMT
that's exactly what I am saying. Consider it daft if you like. The Dubs needed very controversial last minute decisions to win two of their last three SAMS but only the Dubs get that break. I am talking about giving all aspirants a break. So now we're veering into anti Dubs territory, where we have all the people, all the money, home pitch for every game, our own personal ref (take a bow Joe McQuillan), and are positively favoured in every controversial refereeing decision. Which is why Dublin GAA in general is suspicious of the motives of the "out of Croke Park" movement. Obviously I'm over egging it here on what Dublin have that the rest have not, but you get the picture. Bit surprised at Mickmack bringing up the "controversial last minute decisions" card. I don't really see it's relevance in this debate but if it adds to the clamour to change then I suppose it's fair game. Throw enough mud and all that. There is no way Dublin could win SAM without a helping hand of some description! Not going to repeat all I said in an earlier post but we are talking about Dublin playing a Leinster QF away from Croke Park every second year. A lot of noise being generated just to achieve this outcome, that's where the suspicion lies from a Dublin perspective I suppose. Dublin GAA cannot win this argument, in fact they shouldn't even be having it. The debate should be between GAA HQ and the county representatives on the Leinster council. For what it's worth, I'd be delighted to go on the road for a Leinster QF, but if we win an All Ireland having done so you'd wonder what the next reason on the list as to how Dublin managed to win it would be. Why would Dublin be suspicious of the "out of Croke Park" movement. Would it not represent fairness across the board, in particular for the Leinster championship which has gone sterile? I suppose if one hung around the lad who eats Walker crips everyday, eyeing him up continuously, he would begin to think you wanted to take the crisps off him also. Of course if he voluntarily shared the Walkers the paranoia would disperse immediately.
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Post by MrRasherstoyou on May 11, 2015 20:18:25 GMT
Well tell it to the Leinster counties who are voting not to play Leinster qtr finals on their home grounds. Not a decision made by us. Therefore I can say whatever I like about fairness of competitions, it's not even got anything to do with any teams outside Leinster. Bit of a difference between that and giving most teams 2 chances and a few teams one chance in a competition, so how about you stop pulling out red herrings and come up with something solid to back your argument? And if it's such a great idea then what about the really good teams who didn't win Sam in the last 3 years, you're saying they should get double the chances in the competition of teams that won an All-I maybe 2 or 3 years ago? Daft. that's exactly what I am saying. Consider it daft if you like. The Dubs needed very controversial last minute decisions to win two of their last three SAMS but only the Dubs get that break. I am talking about giving all aspirants a break. No Mick you just want a vehicle for the wind-ups. A clockwork discussion. You should go up for PR at the next election, you've got the basis of an aul campaign and a lobby right there. And by the way, in order to "play the man" there still has to be a ball and it needs to be hopped. You have put the ball up your jumper at this stage.
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Post by MrRasherstoyou on May 11, 2015 20:19:17 GMT
So what you're saying is that if Tyrone, after winning their first ever All-I in 2003, had no second chance in 2005, it would have seemed quite reasonable to you? Yes ... and I did allude to this in a previous post ..i.e. that it would have played against us !! Mmmm hmmmmmm, right.
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Post by MrRasherstoyou on May 11, 2015 20:24:50 GMT
Be careful what you wish for. In any case, if it was in Killarney, I've no doubt somehow you would find some way to complain about it not being fair to Kerry! Nothing in that or in your discussions on this thread to substantiate your argument as to why Dublin should continue to play the very vast majority of all their games in Dubs Park. As I never made such a point, or argument, I gather you haven't actually read my posts. If you're goin g to join a discussion well in to it, do your homework. Nothing in your post that substantiates your claim about Killarney etc. The fact is you wouldn't want it, no matter what you say in the easy knowledge that it's unlikely to happen. The very idea of possibly being beaten by the dirty Dubs on your home patch in sacred championship combat, not to mention being overrun with their awful supporters. Eeeeeuuughhhh. Admit it though, you would try to claim it as a disadvantage if we Played yis in championship in Killarney
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Post by kerrygold on May 11, 2015 20:49:04 GMT
Nothing in that or in your discussions on this thread to substantiate your argument as to why Dublin should continue to play the very vast majority of all their games in Dubs Park. As I never made such a point, or argument, I gather you haven't actually read my posts. If you're goin g to join a discussion well in to it, do your homework. Nothing in your post that substantiates your claim about Killarney etc. The fact is you wouldn't want it, no matter what you say in the easy knowledge that it's unlikely to happen. The very idea of possibly being beaten by the dirty Dubs on your home patch, not to mention their awful supporters. Eeeeeuuughhhh. Admit it though, you would try to claim it as a disadvantage if we Played yis in championship in Killarney The Centenary Hurlng Final was moved from Croker to Thurles. No reason a football final won't be moved to another venue for some particular reason in the future. The Dubs leaving Croke Park would be like the turkeys voting for Christmas, every sound bite attributed to the Dublin management and CB in recent times, much like your own posts here, have been suggesting why Dublin games should and are remaining in Croker. It is one on the great anomalies in Irish sport, the continued playing of all Dublin championship games in Croke Park and in particular the Leinster championship. No amount of spinning will change that point.
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Post by skybluezone on May 11, 2015 21:38:12 GMT
As I never made such a point, or argument, I gather you haven't actually read my posts. If you're goin g to join a discussion well in to it, do your homework. Nothing in your post that substantiates your claim about Killarney etc. The fact is you wouldn't want it, no matter what you say in the easy knowledge that it's unlikely to happen. The very idea of possibly being beaten by the dirty Dubs on your home patch, not to mention their awful supporters. Eeeeeuuughhhh. Admit it though, you would try to claim it as a disadvantage if we Played yis in championship in Killarney The Centenary Hurlng Final was moved from Croker to Thurles. No reason a football final won't be moved to another venue for some particular reason in the future. The Dubs leaving Croke Park would be like the turkeys voting for Christmas, every sound bite attributed to the Dublin management and CB in recent times, much like your own posts here, have been suggesting why Dublin games should and are remaining in Croker. It is one on the great anomalies in Irish sport, the continued playing of all Dublin championship games in Croke Park and in particular the Leinster championship. No amount of spinning will change that point. [/quote Ah come on Kerrygold. Do you really think Jim Gavin is sitting at home fretting about the possibility of playing a Leinster QF every second year outside of Dublin? Because that's all it is. And the only "spinning" being done on this issue are those who are implying that the current Dublin team would crumble under the weight of an away assignment at the Leinster QF stage. That's about the height of it. Why did no one ask this question between 2006 - 2010? The correct answer is that it was great crack batin the tar out of the Durty Dubs on their home patch. Not many fancy it now funny enough.
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Post by Mickmack on May 11, 2015 22:05:22 GMT
that's exactly what I am saying. Consider it daft if you like. The Dubs needed very controversial last minute decisions to win two of their last three SAMS but only the Dubs get that break. I am talking about giving all aspirants a break. So now we're veering into anti Dubs territory, where we have all the people, all the money, home pitch for every game, our own personal ref (take a bow Joe McQuillan), and are positively favoured in every controversial refereeing decision. Which is why Dublin GAA in general is suspicious of the motives of the "out of Croke Park" movement. Obviously I'm over egging it here on what Dublin have that the rest have not, but you get the picture. Bit surprised at Mickmack bringing up the "controversial last minute decisions" card. I don't really see it's relevance in this debate but if it adds to the clamour to change then I suppose it's fair game. Throw enough mud and all that. There is no way Dublin could win SAM without a helping hand of some description! Not going to repeat all I said in an earlier post but we are talking about Dublin playing a Leinster QF away from Croke Park every second year. A lot of noise being generated just to achieve this outcome, that's where the suspicion lies from a Dublin perspective I suppose. Dublin GAA cannot win this argument, in fact they shouldn't even be having it. The debate should be between GAA HQ and the county representatives on the Leinster council. For what it's worth, I'd be delighted to go on the road for a Leinster QF, but if we win an All Ireland having done so you'd wonder what the next reason on the list as to how Dublin managed to win it would be. I can appreciate why you dont see the relevance but why would you. Dublin in 1995 and 2011 were in the same place. Trying to make the breakthrough after many years of trying. It took highly controversial last minute decisions to enable them to make the breakthrough. That's twice in the space of twenty years. I will withdraw this point and apologise if you can point to a similar thing happening to any other county trying to make the breakthrough in the last twenty years. Go back longer if you want. It is dreadfully hard for a county to make the breakthrough in the current set up. By the way, in 2013 Dublin were simply better than everyone. They were fantastic champions playing the game it was meant to be played but having the monkey off their back in 2011 allowed them that freedom of expression. I have been campaigning here for a long time amend the back door to skew things in favour of the team trying to make the breakthrough. This would benefit the Dublin hurlers too you know! I would love to see them make the breakthrough. The provincial games would be given a much needed bit of spice if Tipp had the chance to eliminate Kerry from the championship in Thurles in June. It would do Kerry no harm to come through that. Kerry are in an advantageous position too. They are the only county in Munster where football is the dominant game. Its time to tweak things a bit in my view. The back door as it currently stands plus the doubling of the number of subs to 6 skewes things towards the stronger counties
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Post by donegalman on May 11, 2015 22:07:54 GMT
Dubin did well on the road in the league when it mattered. They hammered both monaghan and mayo and lost in munster, albiet quite narrowly in the early games. I think they would have no issues going anywhere. Its all about money and gates. There is no point in the GAA losing the possibility of a big pay day by spreading the fixtures.
RE my comment about kerry supporters having issue with dublin in croke park, I only said some kerry supporters. I wouldnt tar all with the one brush it is not the way I do business!
Kerry or Cork v the Dubs in Thurles would be a good middle ground. It worked very well before. Either cork or killarney would work too at the quarter final stages of the championship, but no later. Will we ever see it though? I can, especially if the gates continue to slip in the leinster championship, and cork will have a new stadium that they will need to justify.
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Post by kerrygold on May 11, 2015 22:12:00 GMT
Why limit it to a quarter final every second year skybluezone, why not put the Dubs on the road for two championship games in Leinster every year?
No one is saying the Dubs will crumble outside of Croker, it gives an incentive to the other counties in Leinster to have a cut at it in their own back yard.
Hiding behind "no-one cared" where the Dubs played pre 2010 just because they are successful now is lazy analysis and discussion.
JG finished one of his recent comments on the matter by saying it made more sense that the Dubs play their games in Croker because more people can go to see it. That is bull and feeds the speculation that the Dubs enjoy carving up the weak in Croker as a matter of routine.
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Post by kerrygold on May 11, 2015 22:14:32 GMT
Dubin did well on the road in the league when it mattered. They hammered both monaghan and mayo and lost in munster, albiet quite narrowly in the early games. I think they would have no issues going anywhere. Its all about money and gates. There is no point in the GAA losing the possibility of a big pay day by spreading the fixtures. RE my comment about kerry supporters having issue with dublin in croke park, I only said some kerry supporters. I wouldnt tar all with the one brush it is not the way I do business! Kerry or Cork v the Dubs in Thurles would be a good middle ground. It worked very well before. Either cork or killarney would work too at the quarter final stages of the championship, but no later. Will we ever see it though? I can, especially if the gates continue to slip in the leinster championship, and cork will have a new stadium that they will need to justify. Your point on the money and gates contradicts your point on slipping gates.
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Post by MrRasherstoyou on May 11, 2015 22:22:16 GMT
So now we're veering into anti Dubs territory, where we have all the people, all the money, home pitch for every game, our own personal ref (take a bow Joe McQuillan), and are positively favoured in every controversial refereeing decision. Which is why Dublin GAA in general is suspicious of the motives of the "out of Croke Park" movement. Obviously I'm over egging it here on what Dublin have that the rest have not, but you get the picture. Bit surprised at Mickmack bringing up the "controversial last minute decisions" card. I don't really see it's relevance in this debate but if it adds to the clamour to change then I suppose it's fair game. Throw enough mud and all that. There is no way Dublin could win SAM without a helping hand of some description! Not going to repeat all I said in an earlier post but we are talking about Dublin playing a Leinster QF away from Croke Park every second year. A lot of noise being generated just to achieve this outcome, that's where the suspicion lies from a Dublin perspective I suppose. Dublin GAA cannot win this argument, in fact they shouldn't even be having it. The debate should be between GAA HQ and the county representatives on the Leinster council. For what it's worth, I'd be delighted to go on the road for a Leinster QF, but if we win an All Ireland having done so you'd wonder what the next reason on the list as to how Dublin managed to win it would be. I can appreciate why you dont see the relevance but why would you. Dublin in 1995 and 2011 were in the same place. Trying to make the breakthrough after many years of trying. It took highly controversial last minute decisions to enable them to make the breakthrough. That's twice in the space of twenty years. I will withdraw this point and apologise if you can point to a similar thing happening to any other county trying to make the breakthrough in the last twenty years. Go back longer if you want. It is dreadfully hard for a county to make the breakthrough in the current set up. By the way, in 2013 Dublin were simply better than everyone. They were fantastic champions playing the game it was meant to be played but having the monkey off their back in 2011 allowed them that freedom of expression. I have been campaigning here for a long time amend the back door to skew things in favour of the team trying to make the breakthrough. This would benefit the Dublin hurlers too you know! I would love to see them make the breakthrough. The provincial games would be given a much needed bit of spice if Tipp had the chance to eliminate Kerry from the championship in Thurles in June. It would do Kerry no harm to come through that. Kerry are in an advantageous position too. They are the only county in Munster where football is the dominant game. Its time to tweak things a bit in my view. The back door as it currently stands plus the doubling of the number of subs to 6 skewes things towards the stronger counties "It's not all about Dublin y'know!"
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Post by Mickmack on May 11, 2015 22:42:47 GMT
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Post by MrRasherstoyou on May 12, 2015 8:17:59 GMT
Yes Mick, All-Ireland champion of the Dublin hurlers. Proving just how unbiased you are. Poor aul Dublin hurlers, we all love them. Until they start winning more.........
The hallmark of the quality wind-upper, never let an honest discussion develop, never engage the target in serious debate, other than to wind him/her in. Always change the subject onto something that will provoke the target, and in a manner that leaves them only two options - they are wrong by protesting and they are wrong if they don't respond. Answer all their detailed responses with one-liners, simple gainsaying and goading of what they say, and side-steps; keep pressing the buttons on the provocative subject, and away you go, it's fool-proof as long as you never make the mistake of engaging in real debate. You've been at it for years Mick. It's easy to be a wind-up merchant. Couch it in hidden terms such as "I'm only hopping ball with you", and showing yourself as being the very reasonable one, with references to popular causes, like the Dublin hurlers.
I'm still just wondering why you hi-jacked a discussion in general about competition structures, where I made alot of points about things that you didn't respond to, other than a desultory nod, to go back on the campaign about Dublin footballers, and then told me "it's not all about Dublin you know". And now it's our hurlers too. Can't get my head around that.
I've no problem debating anything with you Mick, as I've shown consistently, and I don't mind being wound up, we all need a bit of that to keep us honest. And this is the Kerry site, so I don't expect to win arguments or get sympathy. I wouldn't want it any other way. But you don't play ball.
You post alot of great articles, and have a vast knowledge of Gaelic games that would surely put me to shame, and you are a very entertaining and intelligent poster, and are well able to match anyone in debate. But you do love your wind-up s. I don't. Winding people up consistently on a message board is the easiest and lowest form of entertainment.
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Post by donegalman on May 12, 2015 8:31:41 GMT
Ok i have slept on this thread, and realize a couple of things.
Croke park is a venue that is sought after by rock concerts etc, and if there was an extra date made available during the peak of the summer, ie for a quarter final in football and or hurling, then it could be a good idea to spread the fixtures.
It would depend on who is playing though. Sometimes a double header in croke park only gets a bad crowd, especially if cork or kerry are playing in it.
Whether this would be a case of taking a swipe at dublin would be beside the point. It would be down to logistics and not moving the dubs for the sake of moving them.
I cant see kerry getting to play dublin in killarney, because this is a fixture that usually sells out croke park. could see a replay there, or a quarter final fixture v cork in cork, because this is not a top billing in terms of exciting the gate to turn out.
You could even extend this logic to games involving an ulster side in Clones, or indeed a Mayo team in castlebar.
There are a lot of things to consider here, but it would come down to vision on behalf of the GAA.
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Post by MrRasherstoyou on May 12, 2015 8:34:13 GMT
As I never made such a point, or argument, I gather you haven't actually read my posts. If you're goin g to join a discussion well in to it, do your homework. Nothing in your post that substantiates your claim about Killarney etc. The fact is you wouldn't want it, no matter what you say in the easy knowledge that it's unlikely to happen. The very idea of possibly being beaten by the dirty Dubs on your home patch, not to mention their awful supporters. Eeeeeuuughhhh. Admit it though, you would try to claim it as a disadvantage if we Played yis in championship in Killarney The Centenary Hurlng Final was moved from Croker to Thurles. No reason a football final won't be moved to another venue for some particular reason in the future. The Dubs leaving Croke Park would be like the turkeys voting for Christmas, every sound bite attributed to the Dublin management and CB in recent times, much like your own posts here, have been suggesting why Dublin games should and are remaining in Croker. It is one on the great anomalies in Irish sport, the continued playing of all Dublin championship games in Croke Park and in particular the Leinster championship. No amount of spinning will change that point. Thurles had a capacity of 60,000 Vs Croke Park at the time capacity of 68,000. Killarney holds, what, 45,000? Bit of a difference from 83,000. Get yisserselves a national league final there first, and if that goes off well, which of course it will, if the public show up, it can move on from there, maybe capacity can be increased somehow. Personally I'd love to see us playing a championship game in Killarney, but any Kerry GAA man (is there another sort?) who I've heard admitting to speak openly (does it happen?) has always said they want to play the biggest games in Croke Park. Can you explain or address that point rather than spinning? As for the rest of your post, as I said elsewhere, direct your ire towards the Leinster Council and the other counties and their decision-making process. And as I said elsewhere, but you either ignored or didn't read, I'm all for All-I quarter finals and even semi-finals where sensible to be brought out of Croker. Careful what you wish for.
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Post by MrRasherstoyou on May 12, 2015 8:41:11 GMT
Ok i have slept on this thread, and realize a couple of things. Croke park is a venue that is sought after by rock concerts etc, and if there was an extra date made available during the peak of the summer, ie for a quarter final in football and or hurling, then it could be a good idea to spread the fixtures. It would depend on who is playing though. Sometimes a double header in croke park only gets a bad crowd, especially if cork or kerry are playing in it. Whether this would be a case of taking a swipe at dublin would be beside the point. It would be down to logistics and not moving the dubs for the sake of moving them. I cant see kerry getting to play dublin in killarney, because this is a fixture that usually sells out croke park. could see a replay there, or a quarter final fixture v cork in cork, because this is not a top billing in terms of exciting the gate to turn out. You could even extend this logic to games involving an ulster side in Clones, or indeed a Mayo team in castlebar. There are a lot of things to consider here, but it would come down to vision on behalf of the GAA. I think you're pretty much spot on Donegalman. Vision is exactly it, though Pairc Ui Chaoimmh has had its problems too, I'm not sure where it stands currently as regards using PUC for sell-out games. I've read various things about safety etc. Thurles could be used more I think.
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Post by Annascaultilidie on May 12, 2015 9:31:07 GMT
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Post by Dermot on May 12, 2015 11:17:35 GMT
Yes ... and I did allude to this in a previous post ..i.e. that it would have played against us !! Mmmm hmmmmmm, right. Eh, lol .... Jeez Rashers, you're in very confrontational mood this weather
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Post by skybluezone on May 12, 2015 13:00:49 GMT
So now we're veering into anti Dubs territory, where we have all the people, all the money, home pitch for every game, our own personal ref (take a bow Joe McQuillan), and are positively favoured in every controversial refereeing decision. Which is why Dublin GAA in general is suspicious of the motives of the "out of Croke Park" movement. Obviously I'm over egging it here on what Dublin have that the rest have not, but you get the picture. Bit surprised at Mickmack bringing up the "controversial last minute decisions" card. I don't really see it's relevance in this debate but if it adds to the clamour to change then I suppose it's fair game. Throw enough mud and all that. There is no way Dublin could win SAM without a helping hand of some description! Not going to repeat all I said in an earlier post but we are talking about Dublin playing a Leinster QF away from Croke Park every second year. A lot of noise being generated just to achieve this outcome, that's where the suspicion lies from a Dublin perspective I suppose. Dublin GAA cannot win this argument, in fact they shouldn't even be having it. The debate should be between GAA HQ and the county representatives on the Leinster council. For what it's worth, I'd be delighted to go on the road for a Leinster QF, but if we win an All Ireland having done so you'd wonder what the next reason on the list as to how Dublin managed to win it would be. I can appreciate why you dont see the relevance but why would you. Dublin in 1995 and 2011 were in the same place. Trying to make the breakthrough after many years of trying. It took highly controversial last minute decisions to enable them to make the breakthrough. That's twice in the space of twenty years. I will withdraw this point and apologise if you can point to a similar thing happening to any other county trying to make the breakthrough in the last twenty years. Go back longer if you want. It is dreadfully hard for a county to make the breakthrough in the current set up. By the way, in 2013 Dublin were simply better than everyone. They were fantastic champions playing the game it was meant to be played but having the monkey off their back in 2011 allowed them that freedom of expression. I have been campaigning here for a long time amend the back door to skew things in favour of the team trying to make the breakthrough. This would benefit the Dublin hurlers too you know! I would love to see them make the breakthrough. The provincial games would be given a much needed bit of spice if Tipp had the chance to eliminate Kerry from the championship in Thurles in June. It would do Kerry no harm to come through that. Kerry are in an advantageous position too. They are the only county in Munster where football is the dominant game. Its time to tweak things a bit in my view. The back door as it currently stands plus the doubling of the number of subs to 6 skewes things towards the stronger counties To address your points, 1) I don't agree that Dublin needed a decision to go to in their favour to make the "breakthrough", certainly in 1995. They had been beaten in '94 final, '93 semi final, both by a point I think, and beaten by Donegal in '92. So they were always on the premises. Could argue that from 1996 -2001 they needed help, but since then they'be been in the top 3 or 4 counties every year I would argue. 2) You are now moving the goalposts away from the Dublin outside Croke Park for AI QF every second year, to a more general tweaking of the whole system. Which is an entirely different argument. And I have no real issue with any of your views on that score. My issue is the amount of noise being generated by the media about Dublin always being in Croke Park. A lot of anti Dub bandwagon hoppers have jumped on this one, I have consistently pointed out that if Leinster Council revert to previous format then Dublin are outside CP for a QF every second year. Leinster semi's and onwards, all teams play in CP, even Dublin! Thats the height of it.
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Post by skybluezone on May 12, 2015 13:08:06 GMT
Why limit it to a quarter final every second year skybluezone, why not put the Dubs on the road for two championship games in Leinster every year? No one is saying the Dubs will crumble outside of Croker, it gives an incentive to the other counties in Leinster to have a cut at it in their own back yard. Hiding behind "no-one cared" where the Dubs played pre 2010 just because they are successful now is lazy analysis and discussion. JG finished one of his recent comments on the matter by saying it made more sense that the Dubs play their games in Croker because more people can go to see it. That is bull and feeds the speculation that the Dubs enjoy carving up the weak in Croker as a matter of routine. Kerrygold, on point one above, I have no issue with not limiting it to a Leinster QF every 2 years out of Croke Park for Dublin, but as I said to MickMack, if the Leinster Council revert to the previous format, then Dublin out of Croke Park for a Leinster QF every second year will be the net effect. If you want to give Dublin a QF away from home every year that is another discussion. 2) The point I make about no one caring between 2006 - 2010 is valid because that is the reality. Everyone wanted to experience the buzz of Croke Park in front of a full house playing Dublin, and the Kerry's, Tyrone's and Corks never piped up about any unfairness, because they knew they had their measure. Sure there is a tidal wave of ex Kerry players in the media telling me that Croke Park is Kerry's spiritual home. I'll go further, in 2009, Kerry were all over the shop, and the big hope was that once they could make it back to Croke Park for the August weekend things would be fine and dandy. How prophetic was that.
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