seamo
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Post by seamo on Sept 1, 2014 14:37:41 GMT
Would also expect Eddie o Sullivan to be involved, has been doing great work with the development squads over the last 5 yrs Thought Jack was appointed for a two year term and this is year one - what makes you think there will be a vacancy in the near future? wow I remember "scart" talking alot of BS here last year, reading that quote just goes to prove it!
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Jigz84
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Post by Jigz84 on Sept 1, 2014 15:47:32 GMT
Donegal minors are big lads but I thought it was a poor enough game quality wise.
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Post by sidelined on Sept 1, 2014 21:00:17 GMT
dublin were there for the taking, cork played destroyed them but got caught with 2 sucker punches. no one would have quoted odds on donegal/kerry minor senior finals. great help for tickets, 2 for me please!.
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Post by Mickmack on Sept 3, 2014 7:23:51 GMT
This was in the Irish Examiner last Saturday. I think its a great uplifting piece about a small rural area. I wonder is it Hudie Beag Gallagher that owns that famous pub called HIUDIs.
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Romanticists might tell you some things are written in the stars, while those who prefer the more pragmatic approach tend to want to make things happen.
On Sunday at the citadel of Croke Park, nine Gaoth Dohair footballers will be sprinkled among the Donegal senior and minor panels, both of whom face Leinster champions Dublin in their respective All-Ireland semi-finals.
Brothers Eamon, since 2004, and Neil McGee – who debuted two years later who will play in a record 44th successive championship outing on Sunday - have been lynchpins of the Donegal set-up for the best part of a decade.
This year, their clubmate, 22-year-old Odhrán MacNiallais, has enjoyed an excellent breakthrough season under the management of Jim McGuinness, which cumulated in a goal in front of Hill 16 against Armagh in the All-Ireland quarter-final earlier this month.
The Donegal minors, managed by former Gaoth Dobhair manager and 1992 All-Ireland winner Declan Bonner, possess Ciaran Gillespie, Cian Mulligan, Michael Carroll, Niall Friel, Gavin McBride and Gary McFadden.
No Donegal side has ever reached the All-Ireland minor final.
In 2005 at CLG Ghaoth Dobhair the decision was made to restructure the club at underage level.
For too long the club from underneath the shadow of Mount Errigal at Machaire Gathlán had seen promising players slip through the net. All too often achievement failed to match potential.
“We sat down, Brendán Ó Baoill, Donnchadh MacNiallais and myself,” says Tom Beag Gillespie, the current Gaoth Dobhair minor team manager, of that first meeting nine years ago.
“Brendan is the Bord na nÓg chairman and Donnchadh brought a great background as a PE teacher. We wanted to help lay the foundations at the club.
“It started basically at under-8 and we trained up coaches and got them involved in the schools. A lot of coaches put in a lot of hard work and every one of them brought something unique and worthwhile.
“They bought into what we were trying to do. So too did the children and their parents, who we couldn’t have done without.”
Almost in keeping with the personality of those from the scattered area – one of the least densely populated places in Europe – the meticulous approach was to be kept low-key almost to the point of being publicly understated.
The strategy – perhaps more of a philosophy – was to marry tradition with endeavour and opportunity.
Gaoth Dobahir, with a record 14 Donegal SFC successes - although only two since 1961 - remain the county’s most successful club and no team in the country can match their nine national Comortás Peile na Gaeltachta titles.
From the heady days of the 1940s and 1950s, an era when Gaoth Dobhair won nine county championships, players like Danny ‘Neddie’ Gillespie, Jackie ‘Phaidí Óig’ Gallagher, Hudie Beag Gallagher and Hughie ‘Tim’ Boyle had long since been written into local folklore.
Boyle is an uncle of Manchester United’s 1968 European Cup winner Paddy Crerand and grand-uncle of Cian Mulligan and Odhrán MacNiallais.
Jackie Coyle played a significant part in the 1961 county title win, while Antoin Carroll was part of Donegal’s first ever victorious Ulster championship panel in 1972. Antoin’s nephew, 16-year-old Michael Carroll, will start at wing-forward for the Donegal minors on Sunday.
Since then, Kevin Cassidy was the club’s first All-Star in 2002 and together with the McGees and selector Piarás Coyle, helped Donegal to the 2007 National Football League Division One title under Brian McIver.
Then, of course, there was the 2012 All-Ireland championship where Peter McGee was a panellist with his brothers Eamon and Neil.
Tradition in sporting terms was and is unquestionably important; so too is recognition of the heritage involved with the club being from the heartland of the Gaeltacht.
Importance was placed on teaching Gaoth Dobhair’s fledgling footballers the value of where they are from, both geographically and culturally.
Creation of young, elite performers was an aim, including development both of the player and of the person. By referencing innovative guidelines from the Ulster Council’s ‘Pathway to Elite Performance,’ the restructuring framework was put in place.
Dara Ó Cinnéide was considered the embodiment of what Gaoth Dobhair sought to represent - the player, the person and the heritage.
Kerry’s 2004 All-Ireland winning captain made half a dozen trips to the north-west over a three-year spell in his role as mentor, with the locals hanging on his every word.
While winning games was always considered welcome, the real emphasis was on the learning to play, with players of varying abilities allowed to develop at their own pace to reach their own potential.
“When we started, the aim was to compete with the likes of St Eunan’s,” Tom Beag Gillespie adds. “They set the standards and we wanted to get to their level.
“In the early days we got a few hammerings but slowly but surely we began to improve. Confidence soon began to rise and we took it from there.
“The plan was always to develop players the right way and not to pressurise them into winning.
“But by under-14 or so we were soon good enough to start winning championships. In turn, players got into county development squads, where there is great work being put in, which also helped to improve the standards.”
The young players involved, right up to minor level, are said to be motivated, eager to learn and willing to work hard, whilst also developing a respectful appreciation of what was being done for them in the structure in which they evolved.
Although the goings on remain firmly as a work-in-progress, Gaoth Dobhair’s policies are starting to bear fruit.
The achievement of Cassidy, the club’s current senior team manager, and the McGee brothers has developed something of a synergy where success can breed success. MacNiallais is the first to make the breakthrough and the six county minors are testament to the continuation of the conveyor belt.
But the real ambition remains to provide both the club, and then in turn the county if it so be, with senior footballers.
West Donegal might be a different world to Croke Park but Sunday will provide the latest indication of the tireless work being put in at Gaoth Dobhair.
“It’s great for the club to have nine players involved at Croke Park,” Gillespie continues. “Gaelic football is changing year on year and it’s important for us to try and move with the times.
“But we can’t stop now and we want to keep the thing going.”
Before the All-Ireland final in 2012, Jim McGuinness famously said: “You’re either moving forwards or backwards. Nothing is stationary.”
At Gaoth Dobhair, things are certainly moving in the right direction
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Post by sidelined on Sept 3, 2014 8:42:26 GMT
surprised to read that Dublin played Donegal in a minor challenge game a few weeks ago. showed their hand a bit there. seems strange choice
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Post by Mickmack on Sept 5, 2014 22:03:21 GMT
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Post by Seoirse Ui Duic on Sept 5, 2014 23:11:58 GMT
Is he related to the other Ó Sés? I guess he must be with that last name and being from that part of the world.
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Post by himself on Sept 6, 2014 8:10:43 GMT
No relation. Tomas' father is Padraig O Se, the Raidio na Gaaltachta and TG4 presenter and musician.
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Post by Seoirse Ui Duic on Sept 6, 2014 9:17:09 GMT
No relation. Tomas' father is Padraig O Se, the Raidio na Gaaltachta and TG4 presenter and musician. Ok thanks. Maybe a distant relation. Still remarkable though how the west keeps producing such amazingly talented and skilled players. Like Tomás they just seem to be born with a football in their hands and they can solo up the field before they can walk.
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Jo90
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Post by Jo90 on Sept 6, 2014 9:32:22 GMT
What relation is Killian Spillane to Jonathan Lyne?
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Post by himself on Sept 6, 2014 15:32:56 GMT
Tom's grandfather Tom Spillane (a great Kerry footballer in his own right long before Pat, Tom, and Mick wore the geansai) married Maura Lyne, sister of Jonathon's grandfather Denny, who captained Kerry in the Polo Grounds in 1947. The Lynes of Cleeney, including Fr. Mick and Jackie were great Kerry footballers. Tom Spillane actually played with Legion for a while (he was a boarder in the Sem with Denny). I will say that it is fantastic that the West produce such a constant stream of talent, but they don't need to lick it up off the stones....it's well worth remarking on men like Liam O Rochain as well. Kerry doesn't suddenly 'find' good footballers, never did. And don't forget that Micheal O Se is an important part of the Kerry minor management.
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Jo90
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Post by Jo90 on Sept 6, 2014 15:50:42 GMT
Tom's grandfather Tom Spillane (a great Kerry footballer in his own right long before Pat, Tom, and Mick wore the geansai) married Maura Lyne, sister of Jonathon's grandfather Denny, who captained Kerry in the Polo Grounds in 1947. The Lynes of Cleeney, including Fr. Mick and Jackie were great Kerry footballers. Tom Spillane actually played with Legion for a while (he was a boarder in the Sem with Denny). I will say that it is fantastic that the West produce such a constant stream of talent, but they don't need to lick it up off the stones....it's well worth remarking on men like Liam O Rochain as well. Kerry doesn't suddenly 'find' good footballers, never did. And don't forget that Micheal O Se is an important part of the Kerry minor management. Thanks - A more interesting answer than "2nd cousins"!
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Post by sidelined on Sept 6, 2014 22:00:31 GMT
another one for the who do you think u are roadshow; are killian spillane and jordan kiely related as well through the lynes?
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Jigz84
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Post by Jigz84 on Sept 8, 2014 9:46:56 GMT
Limerick minors were similar odds to beat Kilkenny yesterday, be warned!
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Post by kerry4life on Sept 8, 2014 11:47:37 GMT
Jack will have them ready, we need to brake the bad run and get minor teams winning as the game is turning into a young lads game so we need a fresh supply of lads coming through to keep challenging. We don't want to be making an odd a appearance every 3 or 4 years and disappearing for a few years.
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Post by onlykerry on Sept 9, 2014 13:01:05 GMT
Jack will have them ready, we need to brake the bad run and get minor teams winning as the game is turning into a young lads game so we need a fresh supply of lads coming through to keep challenging. We don't want to be making an odd a appearance every 3 or 4 years and disappearing for a few years. Kerry are the most consistent minor team in the country in the past 12 years with more semi final appearances than any other county - a title has eluded us but give credit where it is due and acknowledge that no other county has appeared in more SF's than Kerry. There has been ten different winners in twelve years with only Tyrone having multiple wins (3). Why we have failed to turn this consistency into a title is a debate in itself. Every confidence that this years crop are good enough if they can play to their potential on the day.
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Post by kerry4life on Sept 9, 2014 16:27:29 GMT
Jack will have them ready, we need to brake the bad run and get minor teams winning as the game is turning into a young lads game so we need a fresh supply of lads coming through to keep challenging. We don't want to be making an odd a appearance every 3 or 4 years and disappearing for a few years. Kerry are the most consistent minor team in the country in the past 12 years with more semi final appearances than any other county - a title has eluded us but give credit where it is due and acknowledge that no other county has appeared in more SF's than Kerry. There has been ten different winners in twelve years with only Tyrone having multiple wins (3). Why we have failed to turn this consistency into a title is a debate in itself. Every confidence that this years crop are good enough if they can play to their potential on the day. Mayo can nearly say the same with getting to finals and semis over the last 10 odd years. Semi final appearances are great and all but my point was we need to start winning a minor or two as its a young lads game so now more than ever we need the youth to come through and keep things fresh. 1994 was our last win 20 years ago so forgive me if I think we are due one. Also get off your high horse with your "give credit where credit is due and acknowledge no other team has being in semis other than Kerry". I never said credit was not due and I take nothing away from the hard work, energy and time that has gone into the underage set up over the last 20 years. We have produced some fine minors that have become mighty seniors over the years. My point has gone straight over your head lad. I said "We don't want to be making an odd appearance every 3 or 4 years and disappearing for a few years" meaning our seniors, what I meant and you missed was that by having good minor teams means we can be contesting in Croke Park with our Seniors come August every year and not disappearing for 3 or 4 years like what happens to Senior teams when they need to rebuild. Also I said we need to break the bad run, which lets face it 20 years without a title would be considered a bad run in Kerry. While I think you are wide off the mark with your reply I agree that this minors are good enough to break the duck this year. Now calm down lad, if your looking for somebody to argue with,the lads in lads Mayo forums are still full of guys that will gladly fulfill your request,,,,Jeez.
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Post by homerj on Sept 9, 2014 17:07:31 GMT
Jack will have them ready, we need to brake the bad run and get minor teams winning as the game is turning into a young lads game so we need a fresh supply of lads coming through to keep challenging. We don't want to be making an odd a appearance every 3 or 4 years and disappearing for a few years. Winning or losing wont make much difference to be honest in terms of potential senior players. We aint won a minor in 20 years, but have reached 11 senior finals since then. All you need is one or two superstars from each year and thats whats kept us going since the superstar u21 teams of 97/98 which were a result of minors in 94.
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Post by kerry4life on Sept 9, 2014 17:36:04 GMT
Jack will have them ready, we need to brake the bad run and get minor teams winning as the game is turning into a young lads game so we need a fresh supply of lads coming through to keep challenging. We don't want to be making an odd a appearance every 3 or 4 years and disappearing for a few years. Winning or losing wont make much difference to be honest in terms of potential senior players. We aint won a minor in 20 years, but have reached 11 senior finals since then. All you need is one or two superstars from each year and thats whats kept us going since the superstar u21 teams of 97/98 which were a result of minors in 94. I disagree winning gives a better boast all round, by getting to finals and winning it shows what players can do it on the big stage. It gives the youth the belief and confidence to do it at Senior level if they can win minor all Ireland. Its all about the winning mentality at a young age. I hear what you are saying but disagree with what you say about potential players, of course winning will make a big difference to potential players. You have to realise that out of those 11 finals 6 of those finals were contested by an unbelievable team who are an exception to your rule to be honest. What about the 10 years before 97. Winning is very important at all levels
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seamo
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Post by seamo on Sept 9, 2014 18:06:37 GMT
Winning or losing wont make much difference to be honest in terms of potential senior players. We aint won a minor in 20 years, but have reached 11 senior finals since then. All you need is one or two superstars from each year and thats whats kept us going since the superstar u21 teams of 97/98 which were a result of minors in 94. I disagree winning gives a better boast all round, by getting to finals and winning it shows what players can do it on the big stage. It gives the youth the belief and confidence to do it at Senior level if they can win minor all Ireland. Its all about the winning mentality at a young age. I hear what you are saying but disagree with what you say about potential players, of course winning will make a big difference to potential players. You have to realise that out of those 11 finals 6 of those finals were contested by an unbelievable team who are an exception to your rule to be honest. What about the 10 years before 97. Winning is very important at all levels Winning is great, but it really isn't as crucial as your making it out to be. Just have to refer to the past 20 years to see that; drought at minor level coinciding with great success at senior level. Whereas the teams with the success at minor level haven't had the successful transition to senior level that your suggesting. Laois footballers, Galway hurlers, Cork u21 football. What we seem to undervalue here when talking about minor>>>senior is the role the club game plays in developing players, and also 3rd level football.
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Post by kerry4life on Sept 9, 2014 18:28:56 GMT
I disagree winning gives a better boast all round, by getting to finals and winning it shows what players can do it on the big stage. It gives the youth the belief and confidence to do it at Senior level if they can win minor all Ireland. Its all about the winning mentality at a young age. I hear what you are saying but disagree with what you say about potential players, of course winning will make a big difference to potential players. You have to realise that out of those 11 finals 6 of those finals were contested by an unbelievable team who are an exception to your rule to be honest. What about the 10 years before 97. Winning is very important at all levels Winning is great, but it really isn't as crucial as your making it out to be. Just have to refer to the past 20 years to see that; drought at minor level coinciding with great success at senior level. Whereas the teams with the success at minor level haven't had the successful transition to senior level that your suggesting. Laois footballers, Galway hurlers, Cork u21 football. What we seem to undervalue here when talking about minor>>>senior is the role the club game plays in developing players, and also 3rd level football. You mention teams that have had great minor teams that did not progress to senior you forgot to mention success at minor and senior, Tyrone footballers had great minor teams, Killkenny hurlers are a testament to the rule, Tipp hurlers and so on, I was just disagreeing with the fact that its not important, of course it is important to win at underage and minor, refer to the 10 years before 97, you cant just pick out one great team and use them as an exception. Ya we got to 11 finals but its unlikely we will ever see a team like that again. They are an exception to what I'm speaking of. While its not life or death stuff we in turn could be more successful if we were winning more minor tittles. That's a fact. Nice discussion in fairness I hear what all of ye are saying and I do agree with a lot of what ye are saying but trust me the coming years in Gaa will prove the game is for younger men, teams will need great under age teams coming through to keep up with the like of Dublin who have the money to deploy development officers in most clubs in Dublin. How do you think the Dublin hurlers won a league and a Leinster title it wasn't all because of Daly, it was beacuse they put development officers in every hurling club in Dublin to help with the under age, Kerry has one for hurling in the County. While I agree we can be successful without winning Minor titles I have to say I believe winning minor titles is very important as it gives the youth belief that they can do it a top stage and also I believe if we start winning Minor titles in the near future we will knock a few Seniors out of it aswell. We need to stop living in the past saying we did well without minor success, that was a crazy brilliant team, think of the future and start putting the cart before the horse.
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seamo
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Post by seamo on Sept 9, 2014 19:34:15 GMT
Winning is great, but it really isn't as crucial as your making it out to be. Just have to refer to the past 20 years to see that; drought at minor level coinciding with great success at senior level. Whereas the teams with the success at minor level haven't had the successful transition to senior level that your suggesting. Laois footballers, Galway hurlers, Cork u21 football. What we seem to undervalue here when talking about minor>>>senior is the role the club game plays in developing players, and also 3rd level football. You mention teams that have had great minor teams that did not progress to senior you forgot to mention success at minor and senior, Tyrone footballers had great minor teams, Killkenny hurlers are a testament to the rule, Tipp hurlers and so on, I was just disagreeing with the fact that its not important, of course it is important to win at underage and minor, refer to the 10 years before 97, you cant just pick out one great team and use them as an exception. Ya we got to 11 finals but its unlikely we will ever see a team like that again. They are an exception to what I'm speaking of. While its not life or death stuff we in turn could be more successful if we were winning more minor tittles. That's a fact. Nice discussion in fairness I hear what all of ye are saying and I do agree with a lot of what ye are saying but trust me the coming years in Gaa will prove the game is for younger men, teams will need great under age teams coming through to keep up with the like of Dublin who have the money to deploy development officers in most clubs in Dublin. How do you think the Dublin hurlers won a league and a Leinster title it wasn't all because of Daly, it was beacuse they put development officers in every hurling club in Dublin to help with the under age, Kerry has one for hurling in the County. While I agree we can be successful without winning Minor titles I have to say I believe winning minor titles is very important as it gives the youth belief that they can do it a top stage and also I believe if we start winning Minor titles in the near future we will knock a few Seniors out of it aswell. We need to stop living in the past saying we did well without minor success, that was a crazy brilliant team, think of the future and start putting the cart before the horse. Minor success is not a guarantee of senior success, that's why I use those examples. You've stated that we need it, I am saying we don't need it! We need to be competitive at minor level yes, and minor AI titles are great for us the fans, but it won't make or break a future Kerry senior. Whilst we haven't won an AI in recent years, we did reach AI finals, and more specifically we kept unearthing 1,2,3 players each year. Why are the Kerry seniors in an AI final this year? Did Paul Murphy not play some part in that achievement? There's a guy with no AI minor medal, actually he didn't even play Kerry minor! So again, minor success isn't as big a factor, it helps, but lets not lose focus on what is actually important; club and 3rd level football. If the Kerry minors were to lose in 2 weeks time (touch wood that won't be the case!), would Tomas O Se, Killian Spillane, Shane Ryan etc's chances of senior success with Kerry really be hindered that much? I don't think it would.
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Post by beantownfan on Sept 9, 2014 20:01:28 GMT
Tom's grandfather Tom Spillane (a great Kerry footballer in his own right long before Pat, Tom, and Mick wore the geansai) married Maura Lyne, sister of Jonathon's grandfather Denny, who captained Kerry in the Polo Grounds in 1947. The Lynes of Cleeney, including Fr. Mick and Jackie were great Kerry footballers. Tom Spillane actually played with Legion for a while (he was a boarder in the Sem with Denny). I will say that it is fantastic that the West produce such a constant stream of talent, but they don't need to lick it up off the stones....it's well worth remarking on men like Liam O Rochain as well. Kerry doesn't suddenly 'find' good footballers, never did. And don't forget that Micheal O Se is an important part of the Kerry minor management. Thanks - A more interesting answer than "2nd cousins"! Tommy, Pat and Mick's father, Tom Spillane married Maura Lyne, not grandfather.. Maura and Tom (who died when Tommy was 2) would be Killian's grand parents
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Post by kerry4life on Sept 9, 2014 20:52:04 GMT
You mention teams that have had great minor teams that did not progress to senior you forgot to mention success at minor and senior, Tyrone footballers had great minor teams, Killkenny hurlers are a testament to the rule, Tipp hurlers and so on, I was just disagreeing with the fact that its not important, of course it is important to win at underage and minor, refer to the 10 years before 97, you cant just pick out one great team and use them as an exception. Ya we got to 11 finals but its unlikely we will ever see a team like that again. They are an exception to what I'm speaking of. While its not life or death stuff we in turn could be more successful if we were winning more minor tittles. That's a fact. Nice discussion in fairness I hear what all of ye are saying and I do agree with a lot of what ye are saying but trust me the coming years in Gaa will prove the game is for younger men, teams will need great under age teams coming through to keep up with the like of Dublin who have the money to deploy development officers in most clubs in Dublin. How do you think the Dublin hurlers won a league and a Leinster title it wasn't all because of Daly, it was beacuse they put development officers in every hurling club in Dublin to help with the under age, Kerry has one for hurling in the County. While I agree we can be successful without winning Minor titles I have to say I believe winning minor titles is very important as it gives the youth belief that they can do it a top stage and also I believe if we start winning Minor titles in the near future we will knock a few Seniors out of it aswell. We need to stop living in the past saying we did well without minor success, that was a crazy brilliant team, think of the future and start putting the cart before the horse. Minor success is not a guarantee of senior success, that's why I use those examples. You've stated that we need it, I am saying we don't need it! We need to be competitive at minor level yes, and minor AI titles are great for us the fans, but it won't make or break a future Kerry senior. Whilst we haven't won an AI in recent years, we did reach AI finals, and more specifically we kept unearthing 1,2,3 players each year. Why are the Kerry seniors in an AI final this year? Did Paul Murphy not play some part in that achievement? There's a guy with no AI minor medal, actually he didn't even play Kerry minor! So again, minor success isn't as big a factor, it helps, but lets not lose focus on what is actually important; club and 3rd level football. If the Kerry minors were to lose in 2 weeks time (touch wood that won't be the case!), would Tomas O Se, Killian Spillane, Shane Ryan etc's chances of senior success with Kerry really be hindered that much? I don't think it would. What I am saying is if we become more successful at minor level we will in turn be more successful at senior level. I did say its not life or death and you can still be successful without minor titles, but I do believe winning minor All Ireland's is a better plat form for young guys and will give them the confidence to do it at a senior stage when the time comes. I did not not say we need it as you stated, when did I say that. I am saying the more minors you win the better chance you have of claiming more Senior titles especially in the near future and that's my opinion, I told you already I see where your coming from, but please stop telling I'm saying things I'm not to suit yourself. I'm getting bored with explaining this now as you seem to miss what I am saying
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seamo
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Post by seamo on Sept 9, 2014 21:15:08 GMT
Minor success is not a guarantee of senior success, that's why I use those examples. You've stated that we need it, I am saying we don't need it! We need to be competitive at minor level yes, and minor AI titles are great for us the fans, but it won't make or break a future Kerry senior. Whilst we haven't won an AI in recent years, we did reach AI finals, and more specifically we kept unearthing 1,2,3 players each year. Why are the Kerry seniors in an AI final this year? Did Paul Murphy not play some part in that achievement? There's a guy with no AI minor medal, actually he didn't even play Kerry minor! So again, minor success isn't as big a factor, it helps, but lets not lose focus on what is actually important; club and 3rd level football. If the Kerry minors were to lose in 2 weeks time (touch wood that won't be the case!), would Tomas O Se, Killian Spillane, Shane Ryan etc's chances of senior success with Kerry really be hindered that much? I don't think it would. What I am saying is if we become more successful at minor level we will in turn be more successful at senior level. I did say its not life or death and you can still be successful without minor titles, but I do believe winning minor All Ireland's is a better plat form for young guys and will give them the confidence to do it at a senior stage when the time comes. I did not not say we need it as you stated, when did I say that. I am saying the more minors you win the better chance you have of claiming more Senior titles especially in the near future and that's my opinion, I told you already I see where your coming from, but please stop telling I'm saying things I'm not to suit yourself. I'm getting bored with explaining this now as you seem to miss what I am saying Holy fu£k don't make this something it's not people are so sensitive around here these days!! We were having a debate, not an argument, so there's no need to make one of it. You say your getting bored explaining yourself, well nobody asked you to explain yourself. I simply gave a counter to your beliefs that "Its all about the winning mentality at a young age"; and it's only what I've been saying for the past few years here. There's alot of talk about "o look back at this post by me a few months ago, I said Kerry would win Sam" Ye've all got Paddy Power worried, ready with those big betting slips to cash in? haha You mentioned "a fact" (yet preceded it with "could" lol)...well here's something factual: T Mac an tSaoir; B Russell, M Moloney, D Ó Sé; S Enright, A Greaney, B Costello; T Walsh (0-02), D Moran; P Curtin, G O’Driscoll, J Buckley; G Sayers (0-01), P Curran (capt) (0-04 (4f)), E Kennedy (0-02). << 2007 team that DID NOT WIN AN ALL IRELAND. Yet 3 of them (Enright, Buckley and Moran) are all strong possibilities to start a senior AI final (and possibly win), a 4th has already won a senior AI (plus YFOTY plus a professional contract!) and a fifth (Paddy Curran) had his senior intercounty career ruined by injury not a lack of an AI minor medal! And if anyone saw Curran when he was a minor they'd know he was as good as a sure thing to be a Kerry senior star. All that talent coming through and being successful at senior level, yet no minor medals to support it. Believe what you wish, but don't start on me just because my opinion is the opposite and I provide something to back it up, it's merely healthy debate.
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Post by Annascaultilidie on Sept 9, 2014 21:35:38 GMT
Minor success is not a guarantee of senior success, that's why I use those examples. You've stated that we need it, I am saying we don't need it! We need to be competitive at minor level yes, and minor AI titles are great for us the fans, but it won't make or break a future Kerry senior. Whilst we haven't won an AI in recent years, we did reach AI finals, and more specifically we kept unearthing 1,2,3 players each year. Why are the Kerry seniors in an AI final this year? Did Paul Murphy not play some part in that achievement? There's a guy with no AI minor medal, actually he didn't even play Kerry minor! So again, minor success isn't as big a factor, it helps, but lets not lose focus on what is actually important; club and 3rd level football. If the Kerry minors were to lose in 2 weeks time (touch wood that won't be the case!), would Tomas O Se, Killian Spillane, Shane Ryan etc's chances of senior success with Kerry really be hindered that much? I don't think it would. What I am saying is if we become more successful at minor level we will in turn be more successful at senior level. I did say its not life or death and you can still be successful without minor titles, but I do believe winning minor All Ireland's is a better plat form for young guys and will give them the confidence to do it at a senior stage when the time comes. I did not not say we need it as you stated, when did I say that. I am saying the more minors you win the better chance you have of claiming more Senior titles especially in the near future and that's my opinion, I told you already I see where your coming from, but please stop telling I'm saying things I'm not to suit yourself. I'm getting bored with explaining this now as you seem to miss what I am saying You should read the incredible book Outliers by Malcolm Gladwell. I am not going to explain the idea because everyone should read this book but I think he would argue that AI success for the minors might actually HINDER their progress in the long term.
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Post by kerrygold on Sept 9, 2014 22:20:09 GMT
It hasn't hindered the Cats progress from minor through u21 to senior!
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Post by onlykerry on Sept 9, 2014 22:23:32 GMT
What I am saying is if we become more successful at minor level we will in turn be more successful at senior level. I did say its not life or death and you can still be successful without minor titles, but I do believe winning minor All Ireland's is a better plat form for young guys and will give them the confidence to do it at a senior stage when the time comes. I did not not say we need it as you stated, when did I say that. I am saying the more minors you win the better chance you have of claiming more Senior titles especially in the near future and that's my opinion, I told you already I see where your coming from, but please stop telling I'm saying things I'm not to suit yourself. I'm getting bored with explaining this now as you seem to miss what I am saying You should read the incredible book Outliers by Malcolm Gladwell. I am not going to explain the idea because everyone should read this book but I think he would argue that AI success for the minors might actually HINDER their progress in the long term. In the past 45 years we have won 16 Senior Titles off the back of 4 minor titles. 45 years is a decent period to look at and it supports the premise that minor success is not essential. It is great to win AI at any grade but it may be that the u21 grade is a better indicator than minor. We have 10 titles at u21 grade in the last 45 years. The gap between minor and senior is difficult to transition and many star minors never make the step up.
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Post by kerry4life on Sept 10, 2014 15:31:05 GMT
What I am saying is if we become more successful at minor level we will in turn be more successful at senior level. I did say its not life or death and you can still be successful without minor titles, but I do believe winning minor All Ireland's is a better plat form for young guys and will give them the confidence to do it at a senior stage when the time comes. I did not not say we need it as you stated, when did I say that. I am saying the more minors you win the better chance you have of claiming more Senior titles especially in the near future and that's my opinion, I told you already I see where your coming from, but please stop telling I'm saying things I'm not to suit yourself. I'm getting bored with explaining this now as you seem to miss what I am saying Holy fu£k don't make this something it's not people are so sensitive around here these days!! We were having a debate, not an argument, so there's no need to make one of it. You say your getting bored explaining yourself, well nobody asked you to explain yourself. I simply gave a counter to your beliefs that "Its all about the winning mentality at a young age"; and it's only what I've been saying for the past few years here. There's alot of talk about "o look back at this post by me a few months ago, I said Kerry would win Sam" Ye've all got Paddy Power worried, ready with those big betting slips to cash in? haha You mentioned "a fact" (yet preceded it with "could" lol)...well here's something factual: T Mac an tSaoir; B Russell, M Moloney, D Ó Sé; S Enright, A Greaney, B Costello; T Walsh (0-02), D Moran; P Curtin, G O’Driscoll, J Buckley; G Sayers (0-01), P Curran (capt) (0-04 (4f)), E Kennedy (0-02). << 2007 team that DID NOT WIN AN ALL IRELAND. Yet 3 of them (Enright, Buckley and Moran) are all strong possibilities to start a senior AI final (and possibly win), a 4th has already won a senior AI (plus YFOTY plus a professional contract!) and a fifth (Paddy Curran) had his senior intercounty career ruined by injury not a lack of an AI minor medal! And if anyone saw Curran when he was a minor they'd know he was as good as a sure thing to be a Kerry senior star. All that talent coming through and being successful at senior level, yet no minor medals to support it. Believe what you wish, but don't start on me just because my opinion is the opposite and I provide something to back it up, it's merely healthy debate. I here you lad, I didn't mean it like I was annoyed, I'm thankful we don't need minor success be be successful at a senior level. Trust me I am. I just believe if we win more minors we can start claiming more Seniors as the game seems to have turned more towards the youth. It's not life or death and once the minor team can keep going well than obviously we can keep bringing through the odd few to keep things fresh. But if we develop a couple of great minor teams that can push on a be successful at under age I feel this will actually prove better than just adding the odd player from time to time. But I do see where people are coming from, the reason I said I was bored as I felt I was repeating myself. I do see you are now quoting other posts I made, nothing to do with this topic and picking little errors and saying some silly things about worrying paddy power with betting slips, lol I don't know why you getting so personal and petty. I'm sure the rest of the county do not want to see anymore of this talk between us as its gone off point. I have a fair idea who you are so we can continue our healthy discussion in the Greshan hopefully over a victory pint, anyhow in the risk of sounding like an angry Mayo fan I will shishhhh up and will be leaving this debate
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Post by onlykerry on Sept 10, 2014 17:40:15 GMT
Interesting to read the profiles of the current senior panel as updated on the Kerry GAA website - 7 of the senior panel do not list minor inter county experience and three don't list u21 experience with Kerry. Not sure if this is 100% accurate (thought I can remember one or two playing minor but not listed in their profiles) but it adds further to the premise that minor success is not the Key to senior success. Minor success is healthy for senior success but not critical. Also nine of the panel were born in 1990 suggesting we had an incredible team that year (2008) but no AI.
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