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Post by tommynk on Aug 29, 2007 23:09:18 GMT
As good a defence as cork have on a fine day i would expect us to wrack up 1-14+. With our forwards there should allways be a goal in us. Corks display against Meath earned them 1-16. with the exception of darren fay we have a better defence and hopefully we wont let them supply the forwards so easily. Conor Mc was had a big impact when he came on in the munster final ,we could stop that and Tom Sullivan will know how to handle Cussen better (providing he is at full forward). if we can keep the goals out we should be ok. But it is championship and hunger is the best sauce.!!
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Post by FatTom on Aug 29, 2007 23:26:42 GMT
Errah MacCarthy is huff and puff - all fitness and not much ability.
I for one never mind seeing him come on later cause he slows things down so much and doesn't offer much of a scoring threat.
Not a bad player but we'd have far better impact subs if it was a tight game - which I suspect it will be!
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Post by Cornelius on Aug 30, 2007 2:57:41 GMT
This is possibly my most fruitful visit to the internet this championship! Delighted to see the forum back up and running,fair dues to the new lads for getting it off the ground again!
Perfect place for the opinions of such a historic occasion to be voiced,bring on the rebels!
Ciarraí Abú
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Joxer
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Post by Joxer on Aug 30, 2007 9:53:28 GMT
I was severely critical of Seamus Scanlon after the Monaghan, judging as I did that he had given a nowhere near good enough performance. I have to say that his performance against Dublin was a huge improvement and he laid down an almost guaranteed claim to a starting place for the final. Yes, he missed two point chances but at least he was prepared to try and when they start coming off for him, he'll have truly established himself. He needs another performance at least as good as last sundays in the final. He had very little support when the scoring opportunities fell to him which is maybe something to look at but he was prepared to lift the head and drive forward which has as I say impressed me greatly.
Tommy Griffin made a huge contribution also...high energy stuff as always, and it'll be disappointing to him if he doesn't make the final starting line-up.
The full-back line still causes me some concern. I agree that Padraig Reidy had a great game on Sunday but he'll need to improve again for the final. His anticipation seems to be his weakest point and I guess that can only be got from experience. He played Vaughan well but Vaughan isn't a patch on the footballers Masters, O'Connor or Goulding are and its most likely its one of those three he'll have to face. Some serious training ahead for Padraig over the next few weeks. Hopefully, his performance will continue on an upward trend. If Cussen moves out the field, I reckon Tom will take Masters and Marc will act as a sweeper in front of the two man full back line. Bryan Sheahan is a guaranteed starter I'd say for the next day and has improved greatly on previous years. If Kieran Donaghy goes out towards midfield, I don't see Canty following him and leaving Bryan and Gooch inside but maybe... We'll need to improve again on our winning of breaking ball at midfield. The so-called midfield diamond is going to be key and a big performance will be needed from Aidan O'Mahony. Hes more than capable of it but ideally, I'd prefer to see him on the wing or in the corner. Cork are a better team in many ways to Dublin...I think we'll be better due to the Dublin match also. At this point, its hard to see changes for the final. Will Dara be recovered? Hopefully. Other than that, we'll probably start the same. Very unlucky on Sean Ban who is worth a starting place I feel but then Brosnan who might be most at risk, had a good game on Sunday and when on form, can be dynamite! I was very impressed with Pat O'Shea & co on sunday...from the way the team was set up from the start, the preparation that went into getting those good starts and the fitness of the team. They'll have to be 'on the ball' again the next day and earlier substitutions may be necessary but we've every reason at this point to say, they'll be well prepared.
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Post by Kingdomson on Aug 30, 2007 10:31:15 GMT
I agree Joxer, Pat O’Shea & Co have done very well up until now. This is not a criticism but personally I would like to have seen the substitutes come on a little bit earlier in both the Monaghan and Dublin games.
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Post by ardfertnarrie on Aug 30, 2007 10:44:18 GMT
I agree Joxer, Pat O’Shea & Co have done very well up until now. This is not a criticism but personally I would like to have seen the substitutes come on a little bit earlier in both the Monaghan and Dublin games. Absolutely agree with that. Great job Pat, but giving Sean and Darren 5 or 6 minutes to get into the game is mad. He would probably say that Sean scored a point and Darren ran the clock down, but I think they could have done a lot more damage on a frail Dublin defence. Paul Galvin had a great game, but he could have easliy been a liability after getting a silly yellow card very early on. Yet he wasn't substituted until 70 minutes, by which time I thought he looked shattered.
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Post by misteallaigh abú on Aug 30, 2007 11:21:04 GMT
Agree with u on Vaughan there Joxer, the lad has been hyped up because of performances against some very poor defenders. Would be concerned if Reidy has to pick up Donncha o Connor again, the best scoring forward Cork have. Also we need to learn from the Munster final, particularly when Tom Sull looked all at sea when Cussen moved outfield. Scanlon won a pile of possession against Monaghan and gave Shane Ryan enough of it last sunday, if only he could shoot..... I thought our forwards played class football in patches on sunday but when we were 6 up we had a couple of handy chances and did'nt push home our advantage as well as we could have. Our bench is a lot stronger than Cork's up front but it's around the middle where we will struggle and as we saw against Dublin when we are beaten at midfield we leak scores fairly quickly. Just hope Darragh is flying fit and Griffin also, they will need to be.
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seamus
Fanatical Member
Posts: 2,741
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Post by seamus on Aug 30, 2007 11:32:25 GMT
Marc has always marked Masters (very well) whenever Kerry have played cork recently. Who is the bigger threat now? Masters or O'Connor who gave Reidy enough of it in Killarney. What about O'Mahoney on O'Connor for local spice? My gut feeling is Marc will take Masters and Pat will take his chances with Reidy on O'Connor who tends to wander a bit anyway.
Interesting point by ASABU about Billy Morgan's experience of big games vs Pat O'Shea. I was talking to a few well connected Cork men yesterday who reckon that Billy will be too cute for our Pat on the 16th in terms of switches, use of Cussens, midfield, breaks etc. Everyone in Cork is convinced they will do it this time. One good performance against a poor Meath time and they are cock-a-hoop! Time to let the Gooch off the leash!!
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Post by Owenabue on Aug 30, 2007 11:42:12 GMT
Seamus, I don't know what Cork people you are talking to! Most of us are hoping Cork will win. We might believe they can (well you have to think that for every game) but by no means are we cocky about it. We've played ye enough to know what Cooper & co are capable up front. They also had a good performance against Limerick, Tipp and Kerry, but lets not be picky.
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KY50
Senior Member
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Post by KY50 on Aug 30, 2007 12:18:42 GMT
Everyone in Cork is convinced they will do it this time. One good performance against a poor Meath time and they are cock-a-hoop! I totally agree with Seamus - Living in Cork and they are totally confident they will win this one As far as they are concerned Dublin were overhyped (I agree) and they are much stronger and should have too much for us on the pitch and also on the line. They will restrict the supply of ball into gooch, cussen will spend a fair amount of time in midfield, crowd the whole area and their "greater hunger" will see them through Kevin McMahon is also having a great year and will need to be closely marked
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Post by Die Hard Kerry Fan on Aug 30, 2007 14:15:19 GMT
Absolutely agree with that. Great job Pat, but giving Sean and Darren 5 or 6 minutes to get into the game is mad. He would probably say that Sean scored a point and Darren ran the clock down, but I think they could have done a lot more damage on a frail Dublin defence. Paul Galvin had a great game, but he could have easliy been a liability after getting a silly yellow card very early on. Yet he wasn't substituted until 70 minutes, by which time I thought he looked shattered. I fully agree with you on that.. Personally I'd love to see Darren O' Sullivan used a bit more than he already is. He gives backs serious headaches with his pace and they could use this to exploit a lot of situations. Sean too is a great player and could do loads more damage given the time.
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Piggy
Senior Member
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Post by Piggy on Aug 30, 2007 14:28:46 GMT
i think the cork forwards arn't a patch on the dublin forwards.as for reidy,he has more than enough ability to mark both o conner and goulding out of it if asked.i know vaughan isnt as good as o conner but he roasted him with ease so a step up in class shouldnt worry us too much.
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Post by FatTom on Aug 30, 2007 14:44:20 GMT
I actually think that if we put Reidy on Masters we might be served better.
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Post by ardfertnarrie on Aug 30, 2007 14:48:33 GMT
Absolutely agree with that. Great job Pat, but giving Sean and Darren 5 or 6 minutes to get into the game is mad. He would probably say that Sean scored a point and Darren ran the clock down, but I think they could have done a lot more damage on a frail Dublin defence. Paul Galvin had a great game, but he could have easliy been a liability after getting a silly yellow card very early on. Yet he wasn't substituted until 70 minutes, by which time I thought he looked shattered. I fully agree with you on that.. Personally I'd love to see Darren O' Sullivan used a bit more than he already is. He gives backs serious headaches with his pace and they could use this to exploit a lot of situations. He's a wormy little fecker too, so he will win a lot of frees. Needs more time though.
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Post by ardfertnarrie on Aug 30, 2007 14:48:57 GMT
I actually think that if we put Reidy on Masters we might be served better. Absolutely.
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KY50
Senior Member
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Post by KY50 on Aug 30, 2007 14:50:33 GMT
We are being overconfident again. Remember Armagh 2002, Tyrone 2003, Tyrone 2005. Cork are much better than Dublin. Brogan and maybe Keaney at a push are the only players from Dublin that would get on the Cork forward line
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Post by FatTom on Aug 30, 2007 14:58:03 GMT
Yeah but what players from Cork would make Dublin's?
The 2 Brogans and Keaney would.
Collie Moran and Miskella are much of a muchness. Same as Vaughan and Cussen.
Pearce O'Neill isn't a forward but is played there to crowd the middle.
As a scoring unit Dublin are definitely stronger in my opinion.
I'm not overly confident, I feel Cork are a better team than Dublin. But I do feel playing to our capabilities we are the stronger side.
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Post by austinstacksabu on Aug 30, 2007 15:06:40 GMT
Watching the game again yesterday, the number of balls that Vaughan mishandled was incredible.....but was this because Reidy was breathing down his neck and putting him under unbearable pressure, or because he was having a poor day?
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Post by Kingdomson on Aug 30, 2007 15:40:18 GMT
Careful, careful, Kerry supporters! Dara Ó’Cinnéide warns the Kerry fans about their hubris. May I remind you that pride comes before a fall! Cork is a serious challenge so let’s help the team by keeping the feet on the ground.
Dara Ó Cinnéide's Solo Run
After last Sunday's heroics in Croke Park, Kerry players have just over two weeks to prepare themselves for battle for what should be the last time this year.
There would be very little done in terms of training since last Sunday but the recovery process should be very near completion at this stage and you can rest assured that Pat O'Shea and his crew will have already pinpointed certain areas (and there were a few!) that require attention if the Cork challenge is to be addressed.
Even though it has often been said that semi-finals are more about results than performances, the most hardened cynics and doubters (and there are a few!) will agree that certain aspects of the Kerry play last Sunday were as convincing as what's been played this year or any other year in recent times.
The great fear from a Kerry viewpoint at this stage is that other Kerry teams of recent vintage (2002 & 2005) played some devastating football at the semi-final stage only to watch their final opposition bring home the bacon in late September.
The barrage of 'smart-alec' comments at the Dublin football team's expense flying around the place via text message has continued unabated since 5pm last Sunday.
These observations range from the insulting to amusing to downright hilarious and they are taken by most in the spirit in which they are meant. Had Kerry lost the All-Ireland semi-final, the fallout would have been just as severe but at times like these, a bit of perspective is surely called for.
The Dublin players are most likely to come in for some criticism after losing another All-Ireland semi-final having openly stated at the start of the season that reaching the All-Ireland final was the least expected of them as a group.
There is no great shame in losing an absorbing contest by the most slender of margins to a great team playing close to their optimum level, but the game played at this altitude can be as unforgiving as going without oxygen on the slopes of Everest.
It is very seldom a team manages to have at least 12 performers out of 15 playing near the best of their ability at the same time, but that is exactly what happened in Kerry's case against the Dubs.
The Kerry management team, who always face the most exacting of examinations, also performed close to optimum levels against Dublin and the challenge facing them over the coming weeks is one they will have relished since taking over the reins at the end of last year.
Familiarity can breed contempt and I have no doubt Pat O'Shea will be anxious to re-invent the wheel against a team like Cork, who know Kerry's strengths and weaknesses inside out.
Based on what we have seen in recent weeks, Kerry's strength is their ability to dig in when things are going against them and to keep possession even when the heat is put on them.
Some of Kerry's scores late in the game against Dublin best exemplified this trait but there is a general acknowledgement in Kerry that the Dublin backline is more easily penetrated than Cork's. Statistics will back up this perception.
One of Kerry's weaknesses is the concession of possession from kick-outs. Dublin, with their manic intensity around the breaking ball and their clever use of their own kick-outs, cleaned Kerry out around the middle third last Sunday. The work-rate of the Kerry forwards and the man-marking by the Kerry defence masked this deficiency but Cork won't cough up hard won possession as easily.
Another worry for Kerry supporters is the fact that their team went an entire 20 minutes in the first half without a score. If this happened the Dublin team they would be accused (as they have for the last three seasons) of having periods of down-time that may ultimately cost them big matches.
Kerry went 22 minutes without scoring from play against Monaghan as well and this trend may come against them at some stage.
Referee John Bannon has come in for a fair share of criticism for his handling of last Sunday's match and there are many people in Kerry who feel that I was too kind to him on The Sunday Game. My gut reaction having watched the game live in Croke Park was that Bannon had a stinker.
The frees awarded statistics would seem to back up an anti-Kerry bias but after watching the game in it's entirety a number of times since, there is no doubt in my mind that John Bannon got a very high percentage of his instant judgement calls spot-on in a technical sense.
First half free-kicks awarded against Declan O'Sullivan (for over-carrying), Eoin Brosnan (still not sure what for) and Paul Galvin (for having powerful fore-arms!) were undoubtedly harsh, but the issue remains a conflict between entering the spirit of the game and applying the rules as they exist to the letter of the law.
Unfortunately from a refereeing perspective, varying interpretations of the rules can be the difference between the winning and losing of big games but in reality, Kerry people can't complain given the fact that Shane Ryan found out to his cost the difference between advantage and disadvantage when bearing down on the Kerry goal late in the game.
Lady Luck has rode shotgun with this Kerry team all year. For all experienced teams, she is an essential travelling companion!
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KY50
Senior Member
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Post by KY50 on Aug 30, 2007 16:27:55 GMT
Excellent post big brother
Kerry have a lot of work to do
Kickouts
Possession around the middle third and not winning the breaks
Going for long periods without scoring
Lets hope we can rectify these before Sept 16
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Post by Mickmack on Aug 30, 2007 20:15:36 GMT
In relation to the Cork-Kerry final we can only try and make a judgement on what we have seen. On the evidence of what I’ve seen so far, I find it impossible to conclusively predict a winner it really is the proverbial 50/50 game. Firstly, while Kerry were the better team in their semi-final, I actually thought Kerry beat Dublin without being at their peak. All Kerry’s class and experience was on show to dig out a great result. Is there still more in the tank? Is the glass half full or half empty? We will know on the 16th of September. What I do think? Is no one in Kerry should get carried away by the Dublin result! Lest anyone forgets, remember that knowing smile on Billy Morgan’s face after the Munster final. Cork know they’ve improved and they also know they can beat Kerry. So, I don’t buy into this Kerry are favourites rubbish for one second. Cork has the best defence in all of Ireland at the moment and a tremendous midfield. The Cork forwards too are better than what many supporters in Kerry are giving them credit for. Even before we consider James Masters, Goulding and Donnacha O’Connor especially are excellent forwards. Donnacha O’Connor is a forward I would fear and is a potential match winner for Cork. I thought last year he was impressive and among his many attributes, his fielding ability over head is a real strength, this year he has taken his game to another level and is getting and setting up great scores. Cork’s 1-16 against Meath was some shooting and it could have been more. There really isn’t going to be much in this one and as Joan said earlier “this game will be a battle of wills” I agree. I agree........... great post beating a team twice in the same year is difficult
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Aine
Senior Member
Posts: 740
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Post by Aine on Aug 31, 2007 1:14:01 GMT
Watching the game again yesterday, the number of balls that Vaughan mishandled was incredible.....but was this because Reidy was breathing down his neck and putting him under unbearable pressure, or because he was having a poor day? I thought that too. Still whatever the reason it will surely have raised Reidy's confidence which is a good thing.
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Piggy
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Post by Piggy on Aug 31, 2007 7:31:14 GMT
more like beating them three times if you count the national league. afew good points noted by dara there, still you'd prefer to have something to work at coming upto a final instead of thinking your the finished article.
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Post by kerry07 on Aug 31, 2007 8:53:24 GMT
Reidy on Masters is a good idea.To be honest O Connor is the biggest threat. To has done well on him in the past. Another tough job but hey someone has to do it ! I would have greater regard for Masters O Connor and Goulding than the Blues Brothers Jayo and Keaney. Further I rated Cork's defence as being 50% better than the Dubs which sounds like a compliment but in reality it doesn't account for the difference. The Dubs have no defence bar Cahill.Henry Griffin Mc Connell are only very average.Cullen is a poor centre back Casey is not senior inter county standard. Bar Cahill none would start with Cork. This is going to be our biggest test this year. I predict that the bench will tell the tale for us but for this one Pat and Co will have to be completely on top of their game. So far they have been excellent, the next day is another level entirely.
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KY50
Senior Member
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Post by KY50 on Aug 31, 2007 9:27:41 GMT
We definitely need to move it up another level for this. We should also not forget the contribution of the Cork half forward line. As I said earlier McMahon is having a great year, O Neill and Miskella will win plenty of possession and will get/win a lot of breaking ball. Morgan has being building this team since 2004 and as one of the newspapers put it they are 'technically gifted'.
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Post by Kingdomson on Aug 31, 2007 10:19:16 GMT
We definitely need to move it up another level '. Spot on KY50 I have no doubt the intensity of this year’s All Ireland final will match if not surpass that of 2005. The first All Ireland final between Cork and Kerry! – My god neither side will want to cross their respective county bounds as losers. The bragging rights’ for the winner is forever! What a battle we have in store and it may take more than one match to sort this one out.
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Post by binladen on Aug 31, 2007 11:43:22 GMT
cork will run at kerry all day bring d lanky fella out to disrupt dara and co.they will be well drilled etc asper usual with billy m teams. kerry need to play like in last years semi crowd d middle and die for d breaks. for d langers to win they need to win 70 % of mid field ball if kerry break even we ll be ok. lets not forget cork have beaten 3 divison 2 teams to get to d semis, 3 averge teams
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Post by Owenabue on Aug 31, 2007 11:56:07 GMT
The big lanky fella has a name, Michael Cussen. Also, it would be nice for you to call the team Cork as opposed to the silly langers reference.
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Post by binladen on Aug 31, 2007 11:59:11 GMT
The big lanky fella has a name, Michael Cussen. Also, it would be nice for you to call the team Cork as opposed to the silly langers reference. ur lucky there i could have called him alot worse. sorry for insulting this footballing genius. im like galvin i dont do nice
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KY50
Senior Member
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Post by KY50 on Aug 31, 2007 12:13:18 GMT
Midfield will be a minefield, Cussen is an excellent fielder and is quite good at distributing the ball, can also score points , ask Tom Sullivan.He gives Cork another option (Midfield or Full forward depending on how the game is going)
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