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Post by Owenabue on Aug 29, 2007 12:34:13 GMT
you are probably right in the bit below ardfertnarie.......... although I though the Dubs forwards were good While Dublin were a well motivated team and well prepared, Cork have a better defence, much better midfield, better forward line and crucially Billy Morgan is far cuter than Pillar Caffrey. Ah there you go again, talking up the opposition! Before ye discussed who on the Cork team would get onto the Kerry team, and I'd say if ye picked one (Canty) than that would be a lot. I would hope all the years as manager etc would make Morgan a bit more wise alright, but you'd never know. I mean Jack wasn't around since the time of the famine. (I mean the actually famine, and not the football famine in Kerry)
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Post by kerrygold on Aug 29, 2007 12:37:37 GMT
cork will proberly be even more motivated than dublin were to beat kerry,billy will have them wired for this one,kerry will proberly need to find another 30% inprovement for this one from somewhere and will need to peak on the day.
its unlikely anyone working away in fitzgerald stadium over the next three weeks will be even the slightest bit complacent,complacency will be a word or mindset not considered amongst the players,they know what they will have to do.
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Post by kerrygold on Aug 29, 2007 12:41:19 GMT
abue,kerry struggled to beat dublin,meath drew with dublin whom cork subsequently hammered in the semi,that makes cork the favourites going into the final,you know it and so does billy.
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Post by ardfertnarrie on Aug 29, 2007 13:47:00 GMT
you are probably right in the bit below ardfertnarie.......... although I though the Dubs forwards were good While Dublin were a well motivated team and well prepared, Cork have a better defence, much better midfield, better forward line and crucially Billy Morgan is far cuter than Pillar Caffrey. Ah there you go again, talking up the opposition! Before ye discussed who on the Cork team would get onto the Kerry team, and I'd say if ye picked one (Canty) than that would be a lot. I would hope all the years as manager etc would make Morgan a bit more wise alright, but you'd never know. I mean Jack wasn't around since the time of the famine. (I mean the actually famine, and not the football famine in Kerry) Murphy would probably push for a place too. But thats it. ;D
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Post by Owenabue on Aug 29, 2007 13:49:00 GMT
Well arfdertnarie, I'd only take Marc Ó Sé and Cooper, so we're about evens I would think.
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Post by Owenabue on Aug 29, 2007 13:51:47 GMT
abue,kerry struggled to beat dublin,meath drew with dublin whom cork subsequently hammered in the semi,that makes cork the favourites going into the final,you know it and so does billy. According to Mr Paddy Power, yer 4/9 and Cork are 9/4. Some difference in a two horse race! Or is it a race horse v donkey?!
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Post by ardfertnarrie on Aug 29, 2007 13:58:00 GMT
Well arfdertnarie, I'd only take Marc Ó Sé and Cooper, so we're about evens I would think. Go on out that ya langer.
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Post by Owenabue on Aug 29, 2007 13:58:20 GMT
Kerrygold, I was being a little sarcastic...
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Post by austinstacksabu on Aug 29, 2007 13:58:26 GMT
As you all point out, Kerry struggled against Dublin who struggled to dispose of Meath who got hammered by Cork.
Cork struggled to overcome Sligo who barely beat Galway who kind of beat Mayo who were hammered by Kerry. They also struggled against Louth who took an eternity to overcome Wicklow!!
Does this mean the Galway minors have a great chance of walking off with Sam Maguire?
Previous form this year from both teams will count for little in trying to determine where Sam will rest this winter. What will count is players form over the past two or three games.....who has shown consistant improvement, who has not, who has shown glimpses of past form, who hasn't. Who has been reading the game well, who has made the telling moves off the ball.
Pat v's Billy, first All Ireland versus 96th (or some such lunatic amount of finals like Micko) intercounty final.....these are the things that will help us figure out where Sam might end up, not form in previous matches.
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Post by kerrygold on Aug 29, 2007 14:08:24 GMT
a slight exageration there stacks
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Post by Owenabue on Aug 29, 2007 14:16:20 GMT
Well arfdertnarie, I'd only take Marc Ó Sé and Cooper, so we're about evens I would think. Go on out that ya langer. I did answer you but then deleted it because I have every faith in Cork's first fifteen. Too long we've been looking over wishing we'd players like yers and the thing is, there is feck all wrong with the ones we have. I do admire the skill etc of some of yer footballers, I have no problem giving you that list, but I wouldn't swap!
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Post by austinstacksabu on Aug 29, 2007 14:19:15 GMT
I'd love to know, between Nemo and Cork as a player and manager, how many finals he has contested. In the case of Nemo, everything after they won the county title, as they were then representing Cork at that point.
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Post by buck02 on Aug 29, 2007 14:35:51 GMT
I know that the Cork hurling community dont have much time for the footballers but I must say what I saw last night was a total shock. Passing though Castletownroche in north Cork the whole place is adnorned in the Green and Gold, it'd put Tralee or Killarney to shame. So to the people of Castletown - thanks for your support!
Oh and best of luck to their hurlers who are apparently playing the the North Cork Final soon enough!
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Post by kerrygold on Aug 29, 2007 14:49:52 GMT
I'd love to know, between Nemo and Cork as a player and manager, how many finals he has contested. In the case of Nemo, everything after they won the county title, as they were then representing Cork at that point. seeing as having being involved in 14 and 21 all-ireland senior finals doesnt seem to gaureentee mutual repect from all in kerry i'm not sure what relevance the amount of intercounty finals billy has being invoved in is significant to anything in particular!
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Post by gruaigcatach on Aug 29, 2007 16:40:59 GMT
I'd love to know, between Nemo and Cork as a player and manager, how many finals he has contested. In the case of Nemo, everything after they won the county title, as they were then representing Cork at that point. he would have been involved in most of nemo's munster and all-ireland campaigns either as a player or manager but not sure exactly how many. they've won 13 munsters and 7 all-irelands, as well as losing 2 more all ireland finals. at a guess i'd say he was involved in 5 of the 7 all-ireland victories and got the team to two more finals (2001 and 2002 before they eventually won in 2003). nemo have 13 munsters from 15 county titles and again at a guess i'd say he was involved in 10 of those victories.
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falveyb2k
Fanatical Member
"The way this man played today, if there was a flood he'd walk on water. Jack O Shea"
Posts: 1,920
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Post by falveyb2k on Aug 29, 2007 17:25:28 GMT
James Masters resumed training with Cork last night, it'll be interesting to see if he starts now.
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Post by austinstacksabu on Aug 29, 2007 17:35:23 GMT
And he was also involved in 73 and 74 with Cork before Kerry started motoring......
My point Kerrygold is that Pat O'Shea has been involved in very very few finals compared to Billy.....and handling the team in the lead up, and especially the two days before a final are vital times. Jack O'Connor was a selector under Paudi and saw first hand exactly what it was to be involved in the camp set up in the days leading up to a final. Pat hasn't had that at intercounty level.....he has had it with Crokes which is some help, but Billy has far more experience in dealing with a team in the lead up to a final.....
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Post by kerrygold on Aug 29, 2007 18:11:34 GMT
ya,i see your point but the lads have been around the block a few time by this stage,i wouldnt worry about it all to be honest,personally i think pat and john have done a brillant job till now,i see no reason to doubt them at this stage.
was dr.dave ganey not involved in a few all-ireland weekends before with other managers,anyway mickie harte,john o mahoney,sean boylan etc all coped with their first all-ireland weekends,i'm sure pato will as well.
some achievement to bring club and county to all-ireland final day in the same year,did he bring the minors to all-ireland final day also?,i'm not sure about that one.
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Post by Owenabue on Aug 29, 2007 18:13:13 GMT
On the other hand Stacks, the Kerry players are more used to finals, both winning and losing. Very few Cork players are still around since '99. Managers can only do so much.
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Post by Die Hard Kerry Fan on Aug 29, 2007 19:21:10 GMT
As ardfertnarie rightly said earlier, when Kerry fans get cocky it's a bad, bad sign. In the lead up to last Sunday, all the talking was being done by the Dubs, how they'd hammer us etc. etc. Kerry kept quiet and went about the job. There's been a few times when I've seen Kerry fans get cocky and it blew up in our faces. The times when we've kept in our quiet, confident mode have seemed to serve us better. Best to keep it that way, rather than to mouth off.
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Post by FatTom on Aug 29, 2007 19:36:15 GMT
I wouldn't be cocky but I think the space at Croker suits better forwards.
If we supply ball like we did last weekend and not like against Monaghan we should have enough to beat Cork.
Midfield is key and Diarmuid Murphy will need to vary his kick outs if it is getting crowded in there.
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Post by binladen on Aug 29, 2007 19:53:44 GMT
ya,i see your point but the lads have been around the block a few time by this stage,i wouldnt worry about it all to be honest,personally i think pat and john have done a brillant job till now,i see no reason to doubt them at this stage. was dr.dave ganey not involved in a few all-ireland weekends before with other managers,anyway mickie harte,john o mahoney,sean boylan etc all coped with their first all-ireland weekends,i'm sure pato will as well. some achievement to bring club and county to all-ireland final day in the same year,did he bring the minors to all-ireland final day also?,i'm not sure about that one. dr dave managed d desmonds to d all ireland in1985 and won 2 all irelands in d 50' s with kerry and has been in numerous kerry dressing rooms. no lack of experience there
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Post by binladen on Aug 29, 2007 19:57:07 GMT
id be delighted if masters started from a kerry point of view. perhaps he will be corks easiest forward to wrap up o connor is a much better player. dont get me wrong he seems to be a sound fella and could do wreck if given a mile of space but that will not happen. i would put reidy on masters and marc on donnacha
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Post by FatTom on Aug 29, 2007 20:17:22 GMT
I would too Masters is fierce acurate so Reidy would have to be tight but Donncha is their real danger man and Marc O Se needs to pick him up.
If cussen moves out I'd leave Tom and Marc back there to pick up Masters and O'Connor.
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Post by Kingdomson on Aug 29, 2007 21:43:26 GMT
In relation to the Cork-Kerry final we can only try and make a judgement on what we have seen. On the evidence of what I’ve seen so far, I find it impossible to conclusively predict a winner it really is the proverbial 50/50 game. Firstly, while Kerry were the better team in their semi-final, I actually thought Kerry beat Dublin without being at their peak. All Kerry’s class and experience was on show to dig out a great result. Is there still more in the tank? Is the glass half full or half empty? We will know on the 16th of September. What I do think? Is no one in Kerry should get carried away by the Dublin result! Lest anyone forgets, remember that knowing smile on Billy Morgan’s face after the Munster final. Cork know they’ve improved and they also know they can beat Kerry. So, I don’t buy into this Kerry are favourites rubbish for one second. Cork has the best defence in all of Ireland at the moment and a tremendous midfield. The Cork forwards too are better than what many supporters in Kerry are giving them credit for. Even before we consider James Masters, Goulding and Donnacha O’Connor especially are excellent forwards. Donnacha O’Connor is a forward I would fear and is a potential match winner for Cork. I thought last year he was impressive and among his many attributes, his fielding ability over head is a real strength, this year he has taken his game to another level and is getting and setting up great scores. Cork’s 1-16 against Meath was some shooting and it could have been more. There really isn’t going to be much in this one and as Joan said earlier “this game will be a battle of wills” I agree.
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Post by binladen on Aug 29, 2007 21:47:19 GMT
there will be some flaking i wonder what are d odds on d game finishing with less than 30 players ( 15 men kerry and 15 boys cork !)
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Post by FatTom on Aug 29, 2007 22:19:52 GMT
I would say Kerry have a better defence.
Murphy, Reidy, Tom, Marc, Tomas, Aidan And Killian - I woludn't swap them for anyone.
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Post by kerrygold on Aug 29, 2007 22:22:02 GMT
In relation to the Cork-Kerry final we can only try and make a judgement on what we have seen. On the evidence of what I’ve seen so far, I find it impossible to conclusively predict a winner it really is the proverbial 50/50 game. Firstly, while Kerry were the better team in their semi-final, I actually thought Kerry beat Dublin without being at their peak. All Kerry’s class and experience was on show to dig out a great result. Is there still more in the tank? Is the glass half full or half empty? We will know on the 16th of September. What I do think? Is no one in Kerry should get carried away by the Dublin result! Lest anyone forgets, remember that knowing smile on Billy Morgan’s face after the Munster final. Cork know they’ve improved and they also know they can beat Kerry. So, I don’t buy into this Kerry are favourites rubbish for one second. Cork has the best defence in all of Ireland at the moment and a tremendous midfield. The Cork forwards too are better than what many supporters in Kerry are giving them credit for. Even before we consider James Masters, Goulding and Donnacha O’Connor especially are excellent forwards. Donnacha O’Connor is a forward I would fear and is a potential match winner for Cork. I thought last year he was impressive and among his many attributes, his fielding ability over head is a real strength, this year he has taken his game to another level and is getting and setting up great scores. Cork’s 1-16 against Meath was some shooting and it could have been more. There really isn’t going to be much in this one and as Joan said earlier “this game will be a battle of wills” I agree. exellent post,i feel dublin are not as good as people feel they are, i also think kerry have more room for improvement, o connor is a lethal corner forward. just a word of caution without in any way being critical or negitive towards padraig reidy as we assess his performance v dublin,vaughan was essentially a free taker for dublin,he contributed nothing from play v derry in the previous game either. billy will have cork wired for this game.
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Post by Oakpark Gael on Aug 29, 2007 22:27:17 GMT
I hope to god we win this All-Ireland as the slagging and abuse we would get from our neighbours,should we lose, would be unbearable. At the moment i dont care if we don't win a Munster or an All-Ireland for about 5 years as long as we win this year. Winning this year again though would be sweet with beating Dublin and Cork twice in the 1 year,talk of soft All- Irelands will stop then. Kerry to win by 3-5 pts on the 16th.
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Post by FatTom on Aug 29, 2007 23:03:08 GMT
The sad thing is it won't.
Sure we beat Armagh on road last year and it was still a soft All Ireland.
No matter what we do we only win soft All Irelands in some people's eyes and that won't change.
There are 9 counties in the North. 6 in the South - how many more games do they have to play after.
And Leinster for god sakes - 11 teams all relatively sh*te bar Dublin. Then one of the others pops up every now and then.
If it's so easy for Kerry how come Cork haven't won more? How come Galway and Mayo haven't won more?
B**S**t Argument.
Mayo got to those finals on merit, unlike other teams they try and attack Kerry and play their own style - unfortunately that won't win them All Irelands!
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