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Post by tralee58 on May 19, 2024 17:50:28 GMT
I am no expert just a fan from UK. I simply do not understand why Kerry struggle to score goals. Can you guys with your greater knowledge experience help me understand. I always feel confident Kerry can get points on the board important of course but having a real goal threat not there. Like Rugby the team that can create tries mostly wins.
What is it with Kerry ? Why so goal shy and lacking that cutting edge killer instinct. Great players in the squad for sure. Anyway thanks for any information provided. CIARRAI Abu
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Post by orangerhyme on May 19, 2024 20:35:41 GMT
I am no expert just a fan from UK. I simply do not understand why Kerry struggle to score goals. Can you guys with your greater knowledge experience help me understand. I always feel confident Kerry can get points on the board important of course but having a real goal threat not there. Like Rugby the team that can create tries mostly wins. What is it with Kerry ? Why so goal shy and lacking that cutting edge killer instinct. Great players in the squad for sure. Anyway thanks for any information provided. CIARRAI Abu Lots of goals are scored on the break. Kerry play a slower, possession game so less likely to break quickly. We generally go for high percentage shots rather than riskier passes for a goal. I agree more goals would be better. The Gooch said goals are worth more than 3 points, they're a sucker punch. |
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Post by homerj on May 20, 2024 0:12:32 GMT
We are creating the chances just not executing or quite often just take the handy point to keep the score ticking over.
We scored 65 points and 5 of those at least we took the handy point. We've also had 3 or 4 bad misses.
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Post by Annascaultilidie on May 20, 2024 3:38:05 GMT
We are creating the chances just not executing or quite often just take the handy point to keep the score ticking over. We scored 65 points and 5 of those at least we took the handy point. We've also had 3 or 4 bad misses. Another thread someone said we overplay it. I think what you allude to is worse- taking handy point too early and not playing for a goal. |
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Post by homerj on May 20, 2024 8:59:34 GMT
We are creating the chances just not executing or quite often just take the handy point to keep the score ticking over. We scored 65 points and 5 of those at least we took the handy point. We've also had 3 or 4 bad misses. Another thread someone said we overplay it. I think what you allude to is worse- taking handy point too early and not playing for a goal. but when you are 8 or 9 points up, do you really need to be going for goals? if you look at clare and cork, we had 3 terrible misses - Joe, Barry D and Paudi. i recall 3 or 4 more where we took the handy score. saturday we could have went for 3 goals if truely needed them but took the poit. |
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Post by tralee58 on May 20, 2024 9:15:58 GMT
Another thread someone said we overplay it. I think what you allude to is worse- taking handy point too early and not playing for a goal. but when you are 8 or 9 points up, do you really need to be going for goals? if you look at clare and cork, we had 3 terrible misses - Joe, Barry D and Paudi. i recall 3 or 4 more where we took the handy score. saturday we could have went for 3 goals if truely needed them but took the poit. Yes fair point suppose am referring to playing in later Sam stages against the stronger opponents Dublin, Derry, Tyrone, Mayo etc. Probably unlikely to be cruising 8,9 points clear with no need to score goals. |
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Post by Annascaultilidie on May 20, 2024 10:56:29 GMT
Another thread someone said we overplay it. I think what you allude to is worse- taking handy point too early and not playing for a goal. but when you are 8 or 9 points up, do you really need to be going for goals? if you look at clare and cork, we had 3 terrible misses - Joe, Barry D and Paudi. i recall 3 or 4 more where we took the handy score. saturday we could have went for 3 goals if truely needed them but took the poit. Practise |
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Post by anriochtabu23 on May 20, 2024 11:03:01 GMT
We are getting the chances but just not taking them. How many ones did we throw away in 2019 in the first game. 3 or 4?
We never seem to do well with the punch across the square to the inrushing man. The dubs had that perfected.
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Post by homerj on May 20, 2024 11:25:15 GMT
its been said before,the benifits of having a top class keeper can often weaken the goal scoring confidence of forwards in training. we have a top class keeper...not saying its the problem, but it can certainly change a mentality on match day and as i said, the handy points are taken.
id be sure enough that Cluxton sits out alot of those things in Dublin training and the other 2 boys stand in.
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Post by paudief on May 20, 2024 16:52:28 GMT
My take...it's coaching. Dublin consistently take their goal-chances better than Kerry, it can't be coincidence, they're coached in the right way to do it. What is the right way? #1 Rule - take out the goalie. Either by running past him, or passing across. You should always be looking to do this. What you shouldn't be doing is trying to shoot past an outrushing goalie. It's too difficult, usually he's narrowed the angle, and the goal is smaller than soccer. Ok, this is not always possible, and sometimes trying to shoot past a goalie will be your only option. But you should always look to take out the goalie first. If you look at Dublin, they always try to take out the goalie first. Kerry players in general don't. Too many times trying to shoot past an outrushing goalie (you see it with Clifford also, how many times have we seen him shoot into side-netting, or wide or over?). #2 Rule - when you're behind, tend to favour going for goals. When you're ahead, tend to favour taking your points. This can be coached as well, it's just being aware of the game-situation, and understanding the principle (goals are much more valuable, in terms of win-probability, when you're behind than when you're ahead). I see players make this mistake all the time. Nursing a 1 or 2-point lead, and taking on a half-chance at goal, when a point is nearly as valuable. Or conversely, when 4 or 5 points down, and taking a point that does nothing for you, when there's a half-chance of a goal on. A lot of it is coaching, and to me they don't look well-coached enough in taking the chances.
A couple of examples:
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Post by tralee58 on May 20, 2024 17:43:55 GMT
My take...it's coaching. Dublin consistently take their goal-chances better than Kerry, it can't be coincidence, they're coached in the right way to do it. What is the right way? #1 Rule - take out the goalie. Either by running past him, or passing across. You should always be looking to do this. What you shouldn't be doing is trying to shoot past an outrushing goalie. It's too difficult, usually he's narrowed the angle, and the goal is smaller than soccer. Ok, this is not always possible, and sometimes trying to shoot past a goalie will be your only option. But you should always look to take out the goalie first. If you look at Dublin, they always try to take out the goalie first. Kerry players in general don't. Too many times trying to shoot past an outrushing goalie (you see it with Clifford also, how many times have we seen him shoot into side-netting, or wide or over?). #2 Rule - when you're behind, tend to favour going for goals. When you're ahead, tend to favour taking your points. This can be coached as well, it's just being aware of the game-situation, and understanding the principle (goals are much more valuable, in terms of win-probability, when you're behind than when you're ahead). I see players make this mistake all the time. Nursing a 1 or 2-point lead, and taking on a half-chance at goal, when a point is nearly as valuable. Or conversely, when 4 or 5 points down, and taking a point that does nothing for you, when there's a half-chance of a goal on. A lot of it is coaching, and to me they don't well-coached enough in taking the chances.
A couple of examples:
Good write up. Videos give good evidence. Colm Cooper style needed I feel |
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Post by Annascaultilidie on May 20, 2024 19:47:33 GMT
When I used to attend Kerry games (mostly 2011-2015) an awful lot of the warm up time was spent on goal scoring drills.
Is this no longer the case?
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kot
Fanatical Member
Posts: 1,167
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Post by kot on May 21, 2024 10:23:06 GMT
My take...it's coaching. Dublin consistently take their goal-chances better than Kerry, it can't be coincidence, they're coached in the right way to do it. What is the right way? #1 Rule - take out the goalie. Either by running past him, or passing across. You should always be looking to do this. What you shouldn't be doing is trying to shoot past an outrushing goalie. It's too difficult, usually he's narrowed the angle, and the goal is smaller than soccer. Ok, this is not always possible, and sometimes trying to shoot past a goalie will be your only option. But you should always look to take out the goalie first. If you look at Dublin, they always try to take out the goalie first. Kerry players in general don't. Too many times trying to shoot past an outrushing goalie (you see it with Clifford also, how many times have we seen him shoot into side-netting, or wide or over?). #2 Rule - when you're behind, tend to favour going for goals. When you're ahead, tend to favour taking your points. This can be coached as well, it's just being aware of the game-situation, and understanding the principle (goals are much more valuable, in terms of win-probability, when you're behind than when you're ahead). I see players make this mistake all the time. Nursing a 1 or 2-point lead, and taking on a half-chance at goal, when a point is nearly as valuable. Or conversely, when 4 or 5 points down, and taking a point that does nothing for you, when there's a half-chance of a goal on. A lot of it is coaching, and to me they don't look well-coached enough in taking the chances.
A couple of examples:
Nail on the head. I think its the way we are set up and instructed to play. We are very cautious and even on Saturday against a Monaghan team who were very pourous, we passed up a number of chances to play a ball inside that was maybe 60/40 in favour of the 80/20 pass that was less adventorous. Even when DC got the ball with Beggan off the line, worth a pop for goal to put the keeper in his place and get the crowd purring. How many points did we end up fisting over the bar? I think Dara Moynihan is a perfect example, his natural instincts have been curbed somewhat in recent years. He has an eye for goal and we know from his underage days and also with his club that this fella has it in the locker to slice through a defence. But rather than doing that, he is further out the pitch and when he picks up, the first thought isn't to skin a fella, its a safe pop pass across or back. And the lad gets an awful lot of stick then when I think he is doing what he is being told to do and if he doesnt he would be hooked. I also fear that the lack of proficiency will cost us, if you look at some of the big goals Dublin have gotten in AI finals & Semis over the year, they would have scored the same goal 4 or 5 times over against the cannon fodder in Leinester. |
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Post by anriochtabu23 on May 21, 2024 10:56:23 GMT
We are really poor at the punch across the square and palm to the net. We butchered a great chance V Tyrone and not only that it led to David Clifford overstretching and getting injured.
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Post by tralee58 on May 21, 2024 11:17:25 GMT
Just an amateur opinion but I feel when you have ambitious genuine goalscorers it can lift the crowd and unsettle the opposition defence generally. In my opinion a win win.
CIARRAI Abu
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Post by paudief on May 21, 2024 17:25:18 GMT
Good write up. Videos give good evidence. Colm Cooper style needed I feel
Yeah, Gooch was decision-maker par-excellence, you can't really teach what he had, but I do think you can teach some fundamentals of what you should do around the goal, explain the principles, then practice it, then correct mistakes on video-review. I don't see enough evidence this is happening with Kerry, because I've seen them make the same mistakes for a while now. But maybe the current goal-drought will prompt a bit of focus on it.
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Post by paudief on May 21, 2024 17:25:35 GMT
I also fear that the lack of proficiency will cost us, if you look at some of the big goals Dublin have gotten in AI finals & Semis over the year, they would have scored the same goal 4 or 5 times over against the cannon fodder in Leinester.
Yeah, this worries me too. I do think you need goals to win these big matches from the quarter-final on. Going back to the All-Ireland semi-final two years ago, Sean O'Shea got the headlines for his winning-point, but it was more his fantastic goal after 3 mins that set up the win. I kind of think you need 1-2 goals to win these matches.
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kerryexile
Fanatical Member
Whether you believe that you can, or that you can't, you are right anyway.
Posts: 1,190
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Post by kerryexile on May 22, 2024 17:30:39 GMT
A very good analysis of Dublin by Paudief.
However, the last thing Kerry needs to do at this stage when the green shoots of Kerry's organic game are beginning to sprout (at all levels) is to have yet another tactical manoeuvre that works for someone else imposed on them. With forwards like David, Seanie, Paul Geaney and Tony Brosnan on the same team what is needed is to have the 4 of them playing against 5 backs to develop an understanding that brings out the best in them as a unit.
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Post by royalkerryfan on May 25, 2024 19:18:05 GMT
We will score goals against Meath.
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