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Post by onlykerry on Sept 25, 2023 16:10:57 GMT
If Fossa win the intermediate final taking away the 2 Cliffords from East Kerry then they’ll be back in the pack getting rid of the problem of EK being too strong. Brendans would be better off if Na Gaeil get relegated than Rahillys, Na Gaeil would integrate a lot better. Regardless of your opinion on integration - Na Gael would add 2-3 current county players to Brendans - Rahillys won't. Rahilly's have very little coming through and up to 6 veterans who will hang up their boots this year or next. Difficult to see them staying senior for too much longer even if they avoid it this year.
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mike70
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Post by mike70 on Sept 25, 2023 17:07:59 GMT
Agreed, I don’t understand why people keep calling for the divisional teams to be scraped as it’s not happening. Loads of suggestions made in the past on reforming them and being honest that is the only show in town It's always the case. No one had an issue with East Kerry 10 or so years ago when they were struggling to even feild a team at times but how it's an issue. The same happens when Cork when a divisional or college team wins the championship it's a huge problem all of a sudden. I know Cork doesn't have as strong a divisional team tradition of winning championships but it's similar. If a club team wins the championship this year it'll all be forgotten about again. I think the point is that Kerry run 2 championships, putting serious pressure on players involved, likes of Dingle out 8 weeks in a row next weekend, with the best club championship in the country, why do we need any divisional competition at all.
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diego
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Post by diego on Sept 25, 2023 20:33:25 GMT
2 things I don't get with the group stage fixtures.
Why is it predetermined that the Round 1 winners play the Round 1 losers in Round 2. Doesn't that just maximise the chances that groups are done and dusted with a game to spare?
And why start with the neutral venues in Match 1. I'd like to see every team get a chance to have a home game in the first 2 fixtures. This should lend to better crowds in the opening round, and the neutral venue games would have a chance of getting decent attendances then if qualification was still at stake in the last game.
For the format itself I'd like to see more club teams but not at the expense of divisional teams. I'd go with 12 senior clubs and 8 divisional teams. Preliminary round straight knockout between the 8 divisional teams. 4 winners join 12 clubs and straight knock out from there. Losers round format of a few years ago would not be the worst either.
The divisional teams are getting an unfair rap from a few posters here I think. Apart from East Kerry, there was some good stuff played by Mid Kerry, Kierans and to a lesser extent West Kerry and South Kerry who left the game in Templenoe behind them. Shannon and Feale Rangers put in decent efforts but were short a bit of quality in places. Brendans were the only ones who played well below potential.
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tpo
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Post by tpo on Sept 25, 2023 20:57:02 GMT
You want 20teams but Croke Park only allowing 16
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diego
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Post by diego on Sept 25, 2023 21:36:14 GMT
You want 20teams but Croke Park only allowing 16 Correct. I'd say that 16 team thing is only there to put the brakes on counties who were tearing it with ridiculous rugby World Cup sized groups that took too many weeks to complete. Galway took the biscuit when they put 18 teams in 6 team groups.
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pillar
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Post by pillar on Sept 26, 2023 11:59:39 GMT
Was talking to a Derry Gael there and after explaining our championships, County, Club and Divisional to him, he simply said yell win no All Ireland anytime soon cos your players will be knackered.
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Post by hurlingman on Sept 26, 2023 15:03:27 GMT
You want 20teams but Croke Park only allowing 16 Correct. I'd say that 16 team thing is only there to put the brakes on counties who were tearing it with ridiculous rugby World Cup sized groups that took too many weeks to complete. Galway took the biscuit when they put 18 teams in 6 team groups. At one point I think Tipperary had over 30 in their hurling championship. Clubs could just apply to play senior I think was how it worked.
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horsebox77
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Post by horsebox77 on Sept 26, 2023 15:07:34 GMT
sounds like the one off Millennium Cup in 2000, that Glenflesk won.... every club in the pot, you drew who you drew and got on with it.....
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Post by Annascaultilidie on Sept 26, 2023 16:47:45 GMT
Was talking to a Derry Gael there and after explaining our championships, County, Club and Divisional to him, he simply said yell win no All Ireland anytime soon cos your players will be knackered. Ah shtop. Also, wtf is a Gael. Am I a Gael?
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pillar
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Post by pillar on Sept 26, 2023 17:48:21 GMT
Was talking to a Derry Gael there and after explaining our championships, County, Club and Divisional to him, he simply said yell win no All Ireland anytime soon cos your players will be knackered. Ah shtop. Also, wtf is a Gael. Am I a Gael? You're an Annascaul Gael
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pillar
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Post by pillar on Sept 26, 2023 17:50:23 GMT
Was talking to a Derry Gael there and after explaining our championships, County, Club and Divisional to him, he simply said yell win no All Ireland anytime soon cos your players will be knackered. In derry there are 2 groups of 7 you play 6 group games and the top 4 qualify for quarter finals meaning that to win the derry champ you’d hav to play 9 games. Not a huge difference between 9 and the 11 that dingle will play if they win county as well as club Add in Divisional.championship and you've another 2-4 games for a team, in the height of November and December.
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Post by mjsway on Sept 26, 2023 18:57:50 GMT
Theres no Irish in Annascaul
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Post by dc84 on Sept 26, 2023 19:30:55 GMT
Was talking to a Derry Gael there and after explaining our championships, County, Club and Divisional to him, he simply said yell win no All Ireland anytime soon cos your players will be knackered. Bit ironic from the county that played basically the same 18 players over last 3 years !
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Post by shannonsider on Sept 27, 2023 9:48:46 GMT
for all of those not happy with the current structure, what are the proposals? I know personally what I would like, knockout ball, simplistic knockout format. Some will say, ah it takes the divisional sides games to get up to scratch. Well, if the divisional boards have ambitions, then, get their house in order early doors and address. If I had my way, I would simply as follows… Eight divisional teams play each other in a knockout open draw, winners progress, losers out. Eight Club teams play, open draw, winners to quarter final, Club losers get second chance against the four divisional winners… winners progress to quarters.. losers gone. Four rounds and the competition is at the County Final Stage… Knockout? Who is going to train or put in anywhere near the work needed for teams to get one game and be dumped out?
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horsebox77
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Post by horsebox77 on Sept 27, 2023 10:35:04 GMT
Teams with the correct drive, coaching, pride and will to win....
The best games last year weren't the county semi or county final, it was the relegation play offs were it was do or die, pure village pride with no safety net
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Post by shannonsider on Sept 27, 2023 10:53:27 GMT
Teams with the correct drive, coaching, pride and will to win.... The best games last year weren't the county semi or county final, it was the relegation play offs were it was do or die, pure village pride with no safety net Ah stop now. If you’re trying to drive divisions into the ground then that makes sense. Otherwise forget it. And a relegation playoff is of course going to be contested massively with backs to wall. That does NOT mean that championship should be knockout. One has zero to do with the other.
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Post by givehimaball on Sept 27, 2023 11:27:29 GMT
In terms of the current club structures in Kerry I haven't heard any major complaints from players - both club and county players seem to be absolutely loving the frequency of games week-in week-out. Players moaning about the ratio of training sessions compared to games seems to have pretty much disappeared. There may be a few tweaks needed around the edges but I really don't think there is any serious demands for wholesale change to the structures especially not in the frequency/amount of games coming from the players.
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horsebox77
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Post by horsebox77 on Sept 27, 2023 11:47:03 GMT
Teams with the correct drive, coaching, pride and will to win.... The best games last year weren't the county semi or county final, it was the relegation play offs were it was do or die, pure village pride with no safety net Ah stop now. If you’re trying to drive divisions into the ground then that makes sense. Otherwise forget it. And a relegation playoff is of course going to be contested massively with backs to wall. That does NOT mean that championship should be knockout. One has zero to do with the other. Respectively disagree, but ya each to their own.
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Post by hurlingman on Sept 27, 2023 13:17:22 GMT
Was talking to a Derry Gael there and after explaining our championships, County, Club and Divisional to him, he simply said yell win no All Ireland anytime soon cos your players will be knackered. Bit ironic from the county that played basically the same 18 players over last 3 years ! And have won one All-Ireland ever.
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Post by orangerhyme on Sept 27, 2023 16:00:22 GMT
In terms of the current club structures in Kerry I haven't heard any major complaints from players - both club and county players seem to be absolutely loving the frequency of games week-in week-out. Players moaning about the ratio of training sessions compared to games seems to have pretty much disappeared. There may be a few tweaks needed around the edges but I really don't think there is any serious demands for wholesale change to the structures especially not in the frequency/amount of games coming from the players. 100%. It might need some tweaks and fine tuning, but the divisional teams need to stay. Most players and fans enjoy the current Championship. Lots of good players from small clubs enjoy the challenge of competing at the top table. Shows the Kerry selectors what they can do. It just needs a bit more balance in terms of relative strength of East Kerry compared to others. I think a clever statistician could come up with a ranking system and formula to balance the strength of divisional teams. East Kerry would have to lose a few clubs to other divisional sides for example. The O'Donoghue cup can remain the same. It's obvious that South Kerry is depopulating and the trend won't reverse and most population growth is in the Killarney - Tralee - Killorglin triangle. North Kerry's population is growing but has been a blackspot for talent for decades.
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Post by homerj on Sept 27, 2023 21:52:53 GMT
Senior 2, like they do in Dublin, could be the way forward. Make that divisional only, have 12 senior clubs teams and top 4 divisional teams join best 4 or the 12 clubs at 1/4 final stage.
Those 4 clubs also play a semi and final of the senior club, to make club champions like Dingle this year.
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pillar
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Post by pillar on Sept 27, 2023 22:30:28 GMT
In terms of the current club structures in Kerry I haven't heard any major complaints from players - both club and county players seem to be absolutely loving the frequency of games week-in week-out. Players moaning about the ratio of training sessions compared to games seems to have pretty much disappeared. There may be a few tweaks needed around the edges but I really don't think there is any serious demands for wholesale change to the structures especially not in the frequency/amount of games coming from the players. Every county has its own dynamic but Im convinced somethings got to give. Buy just looking at the County team Gavin White hasn't played championship for Crokes in 2 years due to injury, Seanie Shea missed 4 months over the winter in 2022/23. Why are the Clifford's being rested by East Kerry. Dingle rested Paul Geaney. Shane Ryan had a bit of a dig about the number of club games during the week. I'd expect Kerry to pull the players in earlier this winter, you might not see many of them lining out in their District championship.
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mossie
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Post by mossie on Sept 27, 2023 22:56:41 GMT
In terms of the current club structures in Kerry I haven't heard any major complaints from players - both club and county players seem to be absolutely loving the frequency of games week-in week-out. Players moaning about the ratio of training sessions compared to games seems to have pretty much disappeared. There may be a few tweaks needed around the edges but I really don't think there is any serious demands for wholesale change to the structures especially not in the frequency/amount of games coming from the players. Every county has its own dynamic but Im convinced somethings got to give. Buy just looking at the County team Gavin White hasn't played championship for Crokes in 2 years due to injury, Seanie Shea missed 4 months over the winter in 2022/23. Why are the Clifford's being rested by East Kerry. Dingle rested Paul Geaney. Shane Ryan had a bit of a dig about the number of club games during the week. I'd expect Kerry to pull the players in earlier this winter, you might not see many of them lining out in their District championship. The fact that round robin is present in both club and county championships has squeezed the calendar on the district competitons. Is there any reason the senior club championship couldnt be knock out? Could the county senior championship go back to old losers round format? Small tweeks like that are required/ the district board championship competitions when they had more status andwere not a bad place to judge the mettle of up and coming talent
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mossie
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Post by mossie on Sept 27, 2023 22:58:51 GMT
sounds like the one off Millennium Cup in 2000, that Glenflesk won.... every club in the pot, you drew who you drew and got on with it..... That was some achievement by Glenflesk , had serious men in Seamus Moynihan and Johnny Crowley to drive them on
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horsebox77
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Post by horsebox77 on Sept 28, 2023 8:07:20 GMT
sounds like the one off Millennium Cup in 2000, that Glenflesk won.... every club in the pot, you drew who you drew and got on with it..... That was some achievement by Glenflesk , had serious men in Seamus Moynihan and Johnny Crowley to drive them on If my memory is correct, they had a serious free taker in O'Donoghue and a right good baller and work horse in Pat Kelly at midfield to compliment Seamus at Midfield.
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pillar
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Post by pillar on Sept 28, 2023 9:00:13 GMT
Every county has its own dynamic but Im convinced somethings got to give. Buy just looking at the County team Gavin White hasn't played championship for Crokes in 2 years due to injury, Seanie Shea missed 4 months over the winter in 2022/23. Why are the Clifford's being rested by East Kerry. Dingle rested Paul Geaney. Shane Ryan had a bit of a dig about the number of club games during the week. I'd expect Kerry to pull the players in earlier this winter, you might not see many of them lining out in their District championship. The fact that round robin is present in both club and county championships has squeezed the calendar on the district competitons. Is there any reason the senior club championship couldnt be knock out? Could the county senior championship go back to old losers round format? Small tweeks like that are required/ the district board championship competitions when they had more status andwere not a bad place to judge the mettle of up and coming talent To tamper with the Club Championship in its current format would be the height of madness considering its success.
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diego
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Post by diego on Sept 28, 2023 14:58:20 GMT
Were Glenflesk even a senior club at the time, what an achievement beat a seriously strong Gaeltacht side too. Going by Wikipedia roll of honour, they have never won the intermediate which is surprising. Lost the 99 final to Rathmore. Would have had a few key players from the East Kerry 3 in a row team around then. Micheal Donoghue in the full back line who took no prisoners. Moynihan and Crowley of course and Paud Donoghue who as Horsebox said was a brilliant free taker.
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Post by orangerhyme on Sept 28, 2023 19:00:21 GMT
Were Glenflesk even a senior club at the time, what an achievement beat a seriously strong Gaeltacht side too. Going by Wikipedia roll of honour, they have never won the intermediate which is surprising. Lost the 99 final to Rathmore. Would have had a few key players from the East Kerry 3 in a row team around then. Micheal Donoghue in the full back line who took no prisoners. Moynihan and Crowley of course and Paud Donoghue who as Horsebox said was a brilliant free taker. Paud Donaghue was a brilliant forward. Never played intercounty but was one of those great club players. Donaghue seems to be a popular name in Gkenflesk.
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Jo90
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Post by Jo90 on Sept 28, 2023 23:54:27 GMT
sounds like the one off Millennium Cup in 2000, that Glenflesk won.... every club in the pot, you drew who you drew and got on with it..... Glenflesk also won 5 East Kerry Championships in 7 years.
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Post by homerj on Sept 29, 2023 8:30:09 GMT
they also did well enough in the 2000 Munster Senior Club, getting to the final and only losing by 4 points to Nemo, who lost the AI final by a point and majority of the team went on to win it out 3 years later
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