mike70
Senior Member
Posts: 774
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Post by mike70 on Jun 24, 2022 20:25:18 GMT
Its not like the Mayo bench is that strong. Could you post up the mayo subs...i can see it anywhere You won’t see them till Sunday I’d say
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Post by Ballyfireside on Jun 24, 2022 21:14:41 GMT
Hey there it is the team that is supposed to be suffering from a 4 week rest - I think some of us are getting a bit anxious. Ok we have a few injuries but there are many good footballers who can't get on that panel - A team with Killian as a sub and Paul Murphy can still do it at intercounty and he may not be the best of 'em - settle down there folks!
I can't wait to reply to these comments when the All Stars are announced - there will be strange emotions going through Vet's poor auld head at 5pm on Sun 24th July, I have no doubt.
BTW I hope the garda county have a full team and that they give us their best, and may the best team win and may that be us!
I can also see DM doing the full shift - once he runs less free and we have a plan to use him more but not entirely as a linkman/play maker; we have the upstream and the downstream guys so bring it on
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mossie
Fanatical Member
Posts: 2,589
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Post by mossie on Jun 24, 2022 21:52:23 GMT
Dara, Stephen and Seán can win plenty of dirty ball and can keep the score board ticking away. You'd prefer to have Jack and Adrian available but we arent a shadow of a team without them either. Roll on Sunday. Jack and Adrian are a loss but if we cant keep the campaign on track without them, we are not at much. Kerry football should have a reservoir of talent to cope with this, otherwise the panel isnt good enough to win Sam end of
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horsebox77
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Our trees & mountains are silent ghosts, they hold wisdom and knowledge mankind has long forgotten.
Posts: 2,051
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Post by horsebox77 on Jun 24, 2022 22:12:23 GMT
If David flags after 50 minutes, Joe O Conner comes on, no big deal. This is why he is on the panel. Its not like the Mayo bench is that strong. I actually half disagree, I'm a fan of Joe, but he is untried. I actually think the black card in the league final half unearthed a gem in the capabilities of Brosnan on t h e forty. I think when David fades, which he will the key is to change and not leave on, that's where we have failed in the past. I think on 55 minutes Tony could come on for Moran with Seanie going to midfield. It's not what I would do, but I could see it happening. To go one further, if I was Horan and this takes balls is to not start Aidan Shea and try contain Kerry, then when Moran fades he introduces AOS against an untried mid field pair.
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Post by Ballyfireside on Jun 24, 2022 22:42:58 GMT
If David flags after 50 minutes, Joe O Conner comes on, no big deal. This is why he is on the panel. Its not like the Mayo bench is that strong. I actually half disagree, I'm a fan of Joe, but he is untried. I actually think the black card in the league final half unearthed a gem in the capabilities of Brosnan on t h e forty. I think when David fades, which he will the key is to change and not leave on, that's where we have failed in the past. I think on 55 minutes Tony could come on for Moran with Seanie going to midfield. It's not what I would do, but I could see it happening. To go one further, if I was Horan and this takes balls is to not start Aidan Shea and try contain Kerry, then when Moran fades he introduces AOS against an untried mid field pair. Ah horsey I think you are off the mark here - AO'6 would be contained by any of our 26 working as a team, he is prone to fumbling the ball, I sense he is moulded of Club standard where he can be unmarkable but this is a different proposition entirely. I think PK would beat Mayo Sunday so hopefully Jack will do it properly. Ah only opinions but I like your line of thinking all the same.
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horsebox77
Fanatical Member
Our trees & mountains are silent ghosts, they hold wisdom and knowledge mankind has long forgotten.
Posts: 2,051
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Post by horsebox77 on Jun 24, 2022 22:50:54 GMT
I don't rate the big man one bit and truth be told, I fear Mayo more without him than with, example bring Dublin last year and Kildare two weeks ago, however on a wet sloppy day, big units have a useful trait.
Ah maybe the selection has half shocked me, but the bench when laid bare is frighteningly inadequate
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Post by Ballyfireside on Jun 24, 2022 23:01:04 GMT
I don't rate the big man one bit and truth be told, I fear Mayo more without him than with, example bring Dublin last year and Kildare two weeks ago, however on a wet sloppy day, big units have a useful trait. Ah maybe the selection has half shocked me, but the bench when laid bare is frighteningly inadequate Are you mindful that we know so little - could the injuries be a symptom of what I am told, that they are rocking in training?, maybe over-cooked but that's better than under-cooked - can't wait for Sunday Lunch, and the liquid desert! I like AO'6, he will entertain but that's shy of winning.
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horsebox77
Fanatical Member
Our trees & mountains are silent ghosts, they hold wisdom and knowledge mankind has long forgotten.
Posts: 2,051
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Post by horsebox77 on Jun 24, 2022 23:14:37 GMT
Bally, I actually think Mayo are more balanced more cohesive without the battering ram, all well and good in the Hyde or Countess' lawn but not in Croker when it matters.
We have the ability to disappear or more to the point be allowed to be bypassed but one day a lemming will fly, just hope the wings are not spread on Sunday.
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Post by Ballyfireside on Jun 25, 2022 0:25:08 GMT
MayoGAABlog - remarkable and insightful comment, amazing TBH!
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Post by Mickmack on Jun 25, 2022 7:58:37 GMT
Kieran Shannon: We’re left with an intoxicating mix of the old and new
SAT, 25 JUN, 2022 - 08:00 KIERAN SHANNON Social share Welcome to Gaelic’s own Glastonbury.
As with Micheal Eavis’s Worthy farm, it’s been so – too – long since punters have been able to flock to Croker for a weekend festival we possibly used to take for granted.
And like Glasto 2022, a striking feature of this year’s lineup is just how laden it is with so many familiar, big names, even if there’s a sprinkling of young, fresh, novel acts amidst all the legacy acts.
Rewind 20 years ago to the first feast of football we had like this (the inaugural quarter-final round in 2001 having been predominantly played in provincial grounds).
The new Croke Park complete with its new Hogan Stand unveiled in all its glory, stretched to its 80,000-plus capacity.
Pádraic Joyce entered that weekend as the reigning footballer of the year. At 25 he had already played in four All Ireland finals. He or anyone else had no idea that he and his county wouldn’t get back to another one.
Kieran McGeeney would succeed him as the football of the year, although had a Dara McGarty not elected to fist over the bar instead of go for goal, Armagh may not even have made it past Sligo that quarter-final weekend.
James Horan was about to play his last game for Mayo, a now largely-forgotten affair against Cork.
Meanwhile Rory Gallagher had just played his last game of the decade for Fermanagh. He’d been at the peak of his playing powers that summer, the 3-9 he racked up against Monaghan in Ulster the most anyone had ever scored in a single game of championship football until in 2020 Cillian O’Connor broke that particular scoring record just as has almost every other. But in Gallagher’s eyes his native county’s ambition and vision did not align with so he opted out. It didn’t look the smartest move, considering Fermanagh would contest the subsequent two quarter-final weekend festivals, but in time Gallagher would get his own chance to be on that stage, just with a different act.
Now all these years later here they all are, still headlining.
Gallagher with his own high flying birds, the fifth time he’ll be on a quarter-final bill as either a selector or manager.
Horan, in his eight seasons wearing a bainisteoir cap, has never not made it onto the bill of this particular weekend festival. Like that game against Cork back in ’02 as a player, though, there’s a prospect this could be his last in this capacity, or at least in this particular coaching stint.
Probably the most anticipated slot of the entire weekend is when Joyce and McGeeney take to the stage from separate wings. All the more so since Joyce realises that this is the best chance his county has of getting back to a final since 2001, and McGeeney and Armagh will be sensing it’s the best chance to win it all outright like they did in 2002.
Almost all the other last-eight acts from 20 years ago are back here in some guise or another. Dublin. Kerry. Even Cork. The only two new groups to elbow their way onto the bill are Gallagher’s Derry and Colm Collins’ Clare, and even the latter have a tinge of 2002 with their coach, Gerry McGowan, having played for Sligo back then.
Add and weigh it all up though and we’re left with an intriguing, even intoxicating mix of the old and new.
So throw those curtains wide. One weekend like this a year again will see us right.
Kerry are now Mayo with better forwards
As much as the more wary of Kerry supporters and the more optimistic of Mayo ones will remember how Mayo also staggered and stuttered on their way through the backdoor and to their last Croke Park showdown against Kerry five years ago, there are several significant differences between then and now.
Back then Mayo still had some players performing exceptionally well. Lee Keegan. Chris Barrett. Aidan O’Shea. Cillian O’Connor. And upon his return to the starting 15, Andy Moran. Everyone else then clicked in the quarter-final replay against Roscommon to leave a litter of primrose-and-blue roadkill in their wake. It all meant that while Kerry as reigning league as well as Munster champions were still the bookies’ favourites entering that 2017 face-off, the Mayo circle privately believed that man-for-man they were simply better than Kerry.
Now they can’t say any of that. None of them can. Barrett is retired; last Wednesday while we were having a bite to eat outside the Yacht bar on the Clontarf Road ahead of catching another Glastonbury act, Primal Scream, play just down the road in Fairview Park, we recognised Barrett passing us on his bike, a reminder that like Jack McCaffrey his only football is with Clontarf now. So is Moran. O’Shea is no longer an automatic starter. O’Connor is still an exceptional threat and finisher but coming off the injury and layoff he’s had, is not (yet) the attacking – or defensive – force he was. Only Keegan is approximating the standards of old, enough to be assigned to David Clifford duty if that task arises, and even then he isn’t quite at his 2013-2017 majesty. Everyone else around him is just not quite at the level of where they were or who they’ve replaced.
Five years ago Mayo also had the athletic edge on Kerry, the superior, or at least higher, collective training age. Not now. In the wake of that 2017 defeat Éamonn Fitzmaurice enlisted the services of Joe O’Connor and 12 months later the county board created a full-time position subsequently and still occupied by Jason McGahan. The fruits of that intervention are now evident. Their six backs are now running machines, and as a consequence, have as a unit become scoring machines, reminiscent of Mayo and Keegan in their pomp. There’s a reason why a Paul Murphy, as intelligent and sublime a footballer as he remains is not an automatic starter. Kerry now feel the need, the need for speed, and Murphy’s doesn’t frighten you the way a Tom O’Sullivan’s and Gavin White’s does.
Ten years ago when Mayo entered the All-Ireland quarter-final weekend, the Mayo circle were able to say that this was the weekend that Keegan would announce himself as the natural successor to Tomás Ó Sé as the most dynamic and outstanding half-back in the game. Keegan fulfilled that promise, becoming possibly the best the sport has known, even if there’s a case James McCarthy and Jack McCaffrey edge him for even the best half-back of the past decade.
Now a White looks set to assume, take, grab that torch. He has the speed of a McCaffrey, the sustained running and scoring power of a Keegan. And he’s part of a unit that under Paddy Tally’s tutelage have learned to defend better individually and collectively. Again, they resemble the old Mayo and trump the current Mayo on that count.
The first team Horan built had an array of exceptional man-markers. His latest back-six are all essentially half-backs; Enda Hession played centre forward for the county as a minor.
And most worrying for Mayo is that it’s not just their backs who can’t tackle or defend like the Horan teams of old. Those older teams could pride themselves on having the most athletic and hardest-working, hardest-tackling forward line and midfield units in the country, a claim only Dublin could dispute. But now the likes of O’Shea and O’Connor can’t run around as they once could; likewise the ever-gallant but injury-plagued Doherty. There’s just not enough gas in the tank.
Kerry people have reason to be nervous about this game. They’re coming up against a group of men and a manager who have an astonishing capacity and record to summon hugely defiant performances at this juncture of the season. Cork in 2011. Tyrone in 2016. Donegal in 2019. Dublin in 2021. There’s also the scar of last year when the Kingdom similarly had a layoff of a month or more after blitzing Munster. But last year Tyrone had shown a vein of form in the championship, such as in their win over Donegal in Enniskillen, that Mayo haven’t even remotely approached.
An exercise in damage limitation?
At the outset of last year’s championship when there was no backdoor for teams to redeem or suitably gauge themselves, it triggered us to resurrect that line from the 1968 film, The Lion in Winter. When two conspirators are about to be executed, one scolds the other, “Why, you chivalric fool – as if the way one fell down mattered!” To which the other, Richard, replies, “When the fall is all there is, it matters!”
Last year some teams exited the championship nobly, such as Monaghan, by a point, to Tyrone in an Ulster final; Derry to a Paddy McBrearty point in Ballybofey. Others left it cruelly; Clare were swept aside in the first round by Kerry by 18 points. And others departed it shamefully, like Cork in Killarney when the difference in the end was 22.
This year while they never would have admitted it, possibly even to their own players, the Cork management seemed to adjudge that the fall mattered. This time they didn’t go out to jump on Kerry or out-shoot or outscore them as they similarly tried against Dublin in the Super 8s two years earlier; instead they tried to stay in the game for as long as they could. They tried to limit the damage, leave with some respectability.
That they did, leaving Páirc Uí Rinn with a 12-point loss and their dignity and confidence intact. With the luxury of a backdoor that wasn’t there the previous two seasons, there was both something to build on and build towards.
It’s a notable feature of this year’s championship that counties that were badly deprived of a backdoor the past couple of seasons have thrived this year with having a bigger programme of games: provincial champions like Galway and Derry, and teams coming charge through the backdoor like the aforementioned Clare, Cork and Armagh.
In truth, it’s hard to know if Cork are even better than their teams of 2020 and 2021; even this year with the availability of a backdoor they haven’t met the kind of teams – the Meaths, Roscommons, Kildares – that would give us a better gauge of their worth and progress. In a way though that doesn’t matter. They’re into a new cycle with a new team now: the Super 8s team that rattled Dublin three years ago in Croker and once seemed the future is now history.
With the likes of Brian Hurley having waited three years to get back to this stage, Cork will want to rattle, and rattle into, the Dubs again. But they can’t be reckless a la Killarney. For Cork to continue to rise, the fall will matter.
Clare won’t be even thinking that way. They’re the team that have more experience of playing at this stage; the core of their team were here six years ago, Derry haven’t been here in 15 years. Over the last six years they’ve garnered 34 points in Division Two; Derry have only accumulated 16.
The only thing is, Derry seem better equipped to get 16 points up on the scoreboard first. And the way both teams are geared, that should be enough. This one has 1-13 to 0-11 written all over it.
Mayo didn’t require a backdoor the previous two years. Now that they have one, we’ll have a good idea on Sunday night whether it was a blessing or a curse. If their season had ended with a one-point defeat to Galway, there’d be little opposition to James Horan continuing as county manager into 2023, or certainly little appetite to oppose him; his team had just ran out of time, been unlucky with injury, reached a league final. But were Mayo to lose to Kerry again something like how they lost to them 12 weeks ago in Croker, now that’d be a different case.
Mayo are not in the business of damage limitation. They are not geared or built that way under Horan; for him and his team it is all death or glory. But there’d be a segment of his and his team’s support that would settle for the kind of loss to Kerry like the one back to them in 2005 at the same juncture when Austin O’Malley was finally unleashed to kick a rake of points as did Ciarán McDonald beside him when moved to full forward. There’d still be something to build from, rather than being razed to the ground. If they fall, the fall will matter.
Then again, it would just be like Mayo and Horan to be the ones to do the felling.
That’s why they’re still the main act on Sunday. And like Macca at Glasto, will have the place packed.
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Post by Mickmack on Jun 25, 2022 8:02:17 GMT
Kerry closing in on a solution for their No 1 conundrum thanks to the consistency of Shane Ryan
Colm Keys
June 25 2022 02:30 AM
Some 17 minutes into their All-Ireland semi-final replay against Mayo in 2017, the Kerry goalkeeper Brian Kelly put the ball down on a tee and surveyed his options with the intention – it seemed – to go short.
Some of his own players were in his vicinity but like sharks circulating close to the shore, so were red-and-black shirted Mayo players, five in all, among them Cillian and Diarmuid O’Connor, coiled and ready to pounce.
Further out there was also significant congestion. Boxed in, Kelly did something that no one could recall seeing in Croke Park before.
Stephen Cluxton had put a ball over the sideline behind his starting point on the 20-metre line, also against Mayo in an All-Ireland semi-final two years later, in an effort to hit a runner moving into the only free patch of grass that Mayo had allowed. But Kelly went one better (or worse), by chipping the ball out over his own endline for a ‘45’. He had nowhere else to turn.
The O’Connors were closing in on Shane Enright, the target, as the ball crossed the line. As it happened, Cillian put the subsequent kick wide but it felt unsettling nonetheless.
Mayo, with their aggressive approach to opposition kick-outs, had snared another victim. And it fed into the common theme then that a Kerry goalkeeper could be ‘got at,’ that they hadn’t sufficiently developed a strategy to get the ball away swiftly and safely in the modern era after years of having the luxury of driving it down upon Darragh Ó Sé and latterly Anthony Maher, David Moran and Johnny Buckley.
The numbers will beg to differ but the perception remains. In early May, speaking to Sky Sports where he is a regular analyst, the former Donegal manager Jim McGuinness suggested that the Kingdom’s goalkeeping strategy was “very traditional”. In the modern era, the dynamic between a ’keeper and his outfield players has changed. But McGuinness felt that when the pressure came on, the Kerry kick-out struggled.
“Teams are very switched on to things like that,” he said. “If they can get a high press going on them, and force it long, then there’s a good possibility that they know where it’s going. Then you’re starting to get your midfielders, half-backs to attack that really aggressively – breaking ball.
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“The team with the right physical profile could create a situation where they could pen them (Kerry) in on their own kick-out and push up. Dublin could definitely do that. We’ve seen that many times, in terms of 15 out the park and asking that question.”
And yet, when Dublin and Kerry last met in a championship match, the 2019 All-Ireland final replay, Shane Ryan hit the right target with all 25 kick-outs that day, just as he did in last year’s All-Ireland semi-final loss to Tyrone.
In the era of Cluxton, Niall Morgan, Rory Beggan and even the David Clarke/Rob Hennelly axis that served Mayo well for so long, the perception has been that Kerry fall a little short on quality, particularly in relation to kick-out strategy. That they need to get more out of the No 1 jersey as the game today demands it.
McGuinness’s ‘traditional’ assertion is an interesting one. Ryan is the current incumbent and has been for championship games since Peter Keane took over in 2019.
But his goalkeeping experience only extends to his inter-county involvement, first for the Kerry minors who he was with through 2013 and 2014 and then the seniors who he has been with since 2018. At club level with Rathmore he has operated effectively at full-forward which begs the obvious question as to why he doesn’t join the play more? Could they get more out of him, just like Tyrone do with Morgan?
Like a good referee not drawing attention to himself, Kerry appear to want that too from their goalkeeper. Commanding in the air, the presence of Seán O’Shea doesn’t require him for placekicking duties – though he did land a free in the league final against Mayo.
At least he is providing the consistency they’ve required, because consistency is something they’ve always had between the posts.
From 1996 until 2003, Declan O’Keeffe featured in every championship game. When O’Keeffe stepped away, Diarmuid Murphy was the natural choice and like his predecessor Murphy played every game until 2009, when he too retired.
That created an opening for Brendan Kealy and he put down four years to continue that thread of consistency. But in his second season in charge Eamonn Fitzmaurice switched Kealy for Kelly and the Legion man won an All-Ireland.
For 2015, Kealy was back and finished the season as the All-Star goalkeeper, a string of fine saves against Tyrone and one from Dean Rock early in the All-Ireland final helping his case. But for 2016 and 2017 Kelly was first-choice championship ’keeper again.
Kealy saw plenty of league action that year, making way for Kelly again after the league final however – a day when Dublin piled on the pressure to win by 11 points with the oxygen of a goal from Paul Flynn after he had intercepted a Kealy kick-out.
By 2018 Shane Murphy, the All-Ireland club winner with Dr Crokes the previous year, was dangling the carrot of an exocet kick-out that could carry a ‘press’ to the Kerry management, but he too was displaced after Kerry’s first Super 8 game – a defeat to Galway in Croke Park – as Kelly came back to face Monaghan.
Only injury to Ryan since his instalment has changed the order with Kieran Fitzgibbon coming in for the four-game 2021 league and the Munster quarter-final against Clare.
Jack O’Connor did offer an olive branch to Murphy earlier this year when he played him in four of the seven league games, having taken him back in on his own return.
But with Ryan playing the league final and subsequent Munster Championship games, it’s clear that O’Connor is satisfied with the solid if unspectacular platform Ryan provides.
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Post by Mickmack on Jun 25, 2022 8:07:52 GMT
SAT, 25 JUN, 2022 - 07:00
ÉAMONN FITZMAURICE Social share
“We feel the season is only starting now for us because if you think about it, particularly in Kerry, the League and the Munster championship is kind of shadowboxing.”
Jack O’Connor - June 21st 2022
Since Kerry’s loss to Tyrone in last year's All Ireland semi-final, this is the weekend the players will have circled in their calendar since the fixtures were made. This is a chance to atone for that performance and get back into an All-Ireland semi final. While they have done everything asked of them so far as they moved through the McGrath Cup, National League and Munster championship - annexing all three - in many ways their season starts Sunday.
They will have been impatient to get to this point, while also appreciating the importance of each of the steps as building blocks towards an ultimate assault on the All-Ireland. Their attitude will be simple, win and they are well set for an All Ireland semi final, most likely against Dublin. Lose, and they are still not good enough and they are as well off out of it. The thing is they know they are good enough, just that they have yet to prove it. All-Irelands are earned from now on and they are the only currency in Kerry. In terms of developing a squad to win Sam all of the boxes have been ticked this year and over the last couple of years.
It is now time to go and do it.
I saw Jack O’Connor mentioning this week that he feels Mayo could be in a similar situation to where we were in 2009 prior to the ‘startled earwigs’ quarter-final against Dublin. While there are some similarities, there are crucial differences. Chief among them is that Kerry team in 2009 had the medals, experience and knew how to get the job done. In contrast, Mayo are still on the hunt for that elusive first medal. However there is no doubt that they play to the level of their opposition and the sight of Kerry could be the spark that ignites their season, similar to us in 2009.
The stiffer the challenge and the more significant the result, the better they seem to get, with last year's final being a notable exception. Conversely, when they play a team they perceive as inferior they tend to drop to their level. For a more recent parallel, I would look at their 2017 campaign which was peak Mayo when they lost in Connacht to Galway and staggered through a qualifier campaign requiring extra time to dispose of Derry and Cork, and a replay to eventually see off Roscommon in a quarter final. We played them in two All-Ireland semi-finals with them winning the replay, and the level of change in their performance levels was incredible.
They seriously rose their game for us and again for Dublin in the final. Many of their best players were in a great vein of form. They were either experiencing an Indian Summer or hitting their peak. Lee Keegan, the O’Connors, Aidan O’Shea, Colm Boyle, Keith Higgins, Tom Parsons, David Clarke, Chris Barrett, Kevin McLoughlin were all operating at the top of their games. Andy Moran was the player of the year. How many of the current crop can you say that about?
For Mayo to win this quarter-final, they will need goals and to succeed here they have to overcome two factors that have been significant patterns throughout this season. Firstly, Mayo themselves are struggling for goals. Up to now they have played 11 league and championship matches. They have scored a total of nine goals in that time, with four coming in their two encounters with Kildare, who have hardly been market leaders in defending.
They have drawn a blank in six of the 11 games. On top of this, Kerry’s goal concession rate has been as meagre as it has ever been in living memory. They have conceded only two goals all season, with one of them being a soft penalty awarded in Monaghan. During that aforementioned 2017 campaign Mayo scored 15 goals in 10 games when Dean Rock’s late free decided the All-Ireland. Based on the evidence so far this season they will struggle to get goals tomorrow and if so they won’t score enough to win.
James Horan has a set way that he likes to play. High-octane, high-energy, hard work and with a sprinkle of heroism thrown in. At their best they can overrun and overpower teams. The Mayo crowd get behind them and they can be very hard to play against. However when they are short of energy they can be average. For this reason is there a chance Horan could try something different this weekend? History tells us otherwise. Other than personnel switches, what can he do?
Two obvious things are to tweak his defensive system and that consider that age-old chestnut of Aidan O’Shea’s positioning. In the league final, and while accepting they were down key personnel, they were badly exposed at the back and surely they won’t allow this to happen again. Traditionally, forwards on Horan’s teams work so hard that they make sure that every ball put inside is done so under severe pressure. That work rate was notable by its absence in Croke Park that day and has only improved marginally in championship. This is central to their identity and I expect a huge increase in it tomorrow, led by Cillian O’Connor.
They could also opt to play an extra back. Could Horan select his captain Stephen Coen in the half forward line and withdraw him as a permanent sweeper in front of the Kerry full forward line? Coen would also be good on the ball coming out and could release the other running backs such as Keegan, Paddy Durcan and Oisín Mullin to rampage up the field. While this will obviously make life harder for the Kerry full forward line it will free up Tadhg Morley to do his thing at the other side of the field. This is the conundrum for Horan. Normally he would play with six up to occupy Morley but can he afford to try that this time?
If Horan elected to play O’Shea at 14, it could cause Tadhg a different problem. Normally against Mayo a sweeper would have their starting position at the top of the ‘D’. This allows them to be in a good position to deal with any runners that breach the first line of defence. However if O’Shea was inside, Tadhg would probably drop much deeper to protect Jason Foley against direct ball inside. In turn, this would allow space outside for Keegan et al to attack. He hasn’t done it yet this year and O’Shea could as easily materialise as a sweeper at the other end of the pitch, but it will be interesting to see if Horan has something different up his sleeve. He has the stubbornness to stick with his principles, something I admire, but it remains to be seen if has has the pragmatism to change them. As Groucho Marx (and Homer Simpson) said “Those are my principles, and if you don’t like them, well I have some others.”
Kerry have done everything asked of them so far. They have put themselves in a great position as crunch time approaches. While they have not been tested in a long time they will arrive in Croke Park with their strongest squad in years, fresh and with a point or three to prove. Since their last championship visit, what has Jack changed about them and will it be enough?
The obvious one is how well they are playing without the ball. They are well structured with Morley minding the house but significantly as a team they are working extremely hard for each other. Diarmuid O’Connor, Jack Barry, Seán O’Shea, Adrian Spillane, Stephen O’Brien, Dara Moynihan and Paudie Clifford are all working like dogs, forcing turnovers and putting pressure on any deliveries to their back line. While Paddy Tally’s influence is significant, I imagine, these are the hallmarks of all successful Jack O’Connor teams. That willingness to work will be vital tomorrow particularly when it comes to tracking the runs of Mayo’s strike runners.
They will also be conscious of the need to get back up the pitch and be a threat offensively to make sure they are playing the game on their terms. A further change that is helping with the structure is the willingness to kick the ball through the lines. Last year Kerry had a tendency to run a lot of ball and this meant they were often pulled badly out of shape - Exhibit A being Conor McKenna’s first goal in last year's semi final.
That willingness to kick keeps much better shape and also means that the backs have energy to defend with intent, which is, after all their job, rather than burning all their fuel tearing up the field, which is a bonus. The team is a year older and a year wiser. They realise now that the patience afforded a young developing team is running out. They will feel that way themselves and be aware that it is high time to deliver and perform at the top of their game in Croke Park in championship.
Last year will have cut deep and it gives them an angle to make sure it doesn’t happen again. Proving others wrong and proving themselves right will be very satisfying.
While I appreciate as much as anyone what Mayo will bring tomorrow - and bring it they will - I feel Kerry will win.
In a way they have to.
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Post by Mickmack on Jun 25, 2022 8:11:20 GMT
By Seán Moran Sat Jun 25 2022 - 05:00
All-Ireland SFC quarter-final: Sunday, Kerry v Mayo, Croke Park, 4.0pm, live, RTÉ 2
Both teams arrive at this stage in a state of some trepidation, Kerry because of who they’ve played so far and Mayo because of how they’ve played. The Munster champions won both matches against Cork and Limerick easily and now brace themselves for the perennial contenders, who like clockwork have arrived in the last eight with plenty of room for improvement.
[ Once it was the time of their lives but the Mayo journey has now curdled for their loyal supporters ]
That winning muscle memory is phenomenal. Kildare got six up at the beginning of the second half before embarking on a festival of missed opportunities. Mayo scented the vulnerability and duly ended their championship.
The problem is that performance levels up to that point had been wretched. Do that again and they’ll be clearing children out of the stadium before half-time.
As a guide the league final between the teams probably won’t apply. Mayo are stronger with the return of Rob Hennelly, Oisín Mullin (around whom injury rumours again flutter) and Paddy Durcan. The unfortunate Pádraig O’Hora, condemned to an entire afternoon in David Clifford’s company isn’t named to start.
Clifford is listed at full forward by Kerry, as stated by manager Jack O’Connor earlier this week, and word is that he is fit to go after missing the Munster final. Mayo didn’t have similar fortune in getting their key forward back and Ryan O’Donoghue remains on the side-lines with injury.
Kerry have won the two previous meetings and should be winning this but there is a fear of what one friend described as ‘the Mayo performance,’ the type of unexpected display that the county puts up nearly every year. Kerry should know. They were on the receiving end in 2017.
[ David Clifford named to start for Kerry as bumper crowds return to Croke Park ]
Lee Keegan, Mullin and Durcan are capable of leading that and other defenders of weighing in but whereas those interventions have won the recent matches against – albeit Division One teams – Kildare and Monaghan, it’s hard to see it being enough to counter-balance Kerry’s stronger line-up across the field.
The pace and hard work of the backs, like Gavin White and Tom O’Sullivan along with Tadhg Morley’s intelligent sweeping look capable enough of restricting Mayo and matching their counter-attacks whereas David Moran’s return guarantees a presence at centrefield for however long he lasts.
It is of course up front that the danger lies and not just Clifford but also Paul Geaney who scored well in the league final. Mayo can make it difficult but how can they win?
Verdict: Kerry
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Post by Mickmack on Jun 25, 2022 8:16:17 GMT
SAT, 25 JUN, 2022 - 07:10 JOHN FOGARTY Social share
Mayo are ahead of Kerry on one major metric going into this quarter-final: they have had more schooldays.
If the Division 1 final embarrassment wasn’t enough, Galway gave them another in Connacht.
Not that Kerry would swap what they have stored up this season for that but 50 minutes working on the Rubik’s Cube presented to them by Cork pales in comparison. They are undeniably untested but when Mayo are relatively slow starters it might be too late before James Horan’s side are able to ask questions of them.
Not that Kerry should run away with this – Mayo consistently match their game to compete against their opponents whoever they may be – but it’s going to take more than shooting, lightning quick defenders to beat them especially when they have one in Gavin White. No, Mayo need their forwards to score regularly. Another couple of middling displays from individuals up there and they don’t stand a chance.
Lee Keegan has again been outstanding in this championship but he is understandably conserving energy like never before. It would be surprising if he is tasked with shadowing David Clifford when it would surely subtract from his forays up the field. But then is Oisín Mullin fully fit to mark him instead?
Where Mayo really have to peg the Munster champions is midfield given Kerry’s Diarmuid O’Connor is in footballer of the year form. David Moran comes in for injured Jack Barry whose performances have been exemplary. Like O'Connor and Barry, Matthew Ruane and Aidan O’Shea are club-mates but haven’t been clicking this summer.
After suffering his first championship defeat to Galway this year having overseen five previously, Horan knows Jack O’Connor’s proud record of three wins from three SFC games against them can be broken. This is Mayo and so long as they can visualise it, they can build it. But Kerry appear one hard reality for them right now.
Verdict: Kerry.
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Post by Mickmack on Jun 25, 2022 8:18:25 GMT
Shane Enright: 'Kerry aren’t just playing well at the back, they’re scoring as well'
Retired since early last year, Shane Enright would love to be part of the defensive set-up Jack O’Connor and Paddy Tally have engineered
SAT, 25 JUN, 2022 - 07:05 JOHN FOGARTY Social share
When Darren McCurry breached Shane Murphy’s goal in Killarney in late March, the clock stopped on 473 for the amount of regulation minutes that Kerry had gone without conceding a goal from open play.
Factor in additional time and that spell went well beyond 500 minutes. Add if you want the three McGrath Cup games when they also kept clean sheets and the span is over 700 minutes.
But the clock has started again and 227 regulation minutes have passed since McCurry did so well to catch Darragh Canavan’s free, slip Dylan Casey and finish cleverly. If Kerry are going to cough one up from open play, it seems it will have to be a good one.
Retired since early last year, Shane Enright would love to be part of the defensive set-up Jack O’Connor and Paddy Tally have engineered. “At times in previous years, we were a bit exposed and left one-on-one in space but the way the game has gone you’d get a lot more protection.
“If you were in the Kerry full-back line at the moment, you’d be confident you’d get your job done on your man because fellas are getting back and assisting you. You can actually be a lot more positive now, be confident to drive out with the ball and get into forward positions. You’d love to be a part of that set-up.”
Kerry’s average aggregate concession per game across the league and championship currently reads a miserly 12.3 points. It wasn’t surprising that meanness continued into the Munster championship but Enright believes it can be sustained.
“What he’s (O’Connor) done is settle on six or seven. He’s dropping in one of the wing forwards to help out. Peter (Keane) would have persisted with Tadhg Morley as a full-back but he’s shown this year that he’s a good reader of the game at centre-back and when he gets a chance he drops off and protects that full-back line, which is big.
“The day to be worried is when he’s tasked with marking a big ball player at No11, who gets on a lot of ball and has to come out and defend a lot more. But right now they’re dropping a man back, Tadhg is dropping off sitting 20 yards in front of the boys and they’re talking to him and he’s swept up a lot of ball. They have been a lot more solid because of that.
“In years gone by, we were left more open and there were a lot more one-on-ones and two-on-twos but bar McCurry’s goal, which was a one-on-one from a long ball in, we haven’t been caught much this year. Croke Park is different because it’s more open. I was worried the system they’ve worked on would be exposed there in the league final just because the fitness levels wouldn’t be up to championship scratch but they held up.”
In his “The Kerryman” column this week, Enright spoke of two of the quarter-finals he played, O’Connor’s previous one in charge in 2012 and how Éamonn Fitzmaurice learned from it in the final two years later.
Keeping Donegal to 12 points that day, he agrees the defensive displays right now are the best since then. “In ‘14, the plan was made to have a solid six getting in behind the ball and we would have enough upfront to go and beat them.
“But Kerry aren’t just playing well at the back and not conceding goals: they’re scoring as well. We won that game by three points, scoring 2-9. This Kerry team are scoring more, which is not something they have lost putting in this defensive system.”
Enright isn’t afraid to talk of this Mayo game as one Kerry need and is already eyeing a semi-final date with Dublin. James Horan’s side just haven’t done it for him.
“Going by the performances over the last few weeks, Mayo haven’t been great but there is always one kick in them. Hopefully, it won’t be Sunday but they had trouble against Monaghan and were poor against Kildare for long periods.
“Up front, they don’t look great and Cillian O’Connor doesn’t look as sharp as he has been because of injury. Ryan O’Donoghue has been their best forward this year and did well in Tralee in the league but they’re missing (Tommy) Conroy.
"If they get a goal or two from the back then it could be interesting, but I can’t see them winning based on their recent performances more than anything.”
Not that there is hype about the team in Kerry going into the game. Fans have burnt fingers from the last few seasons, Enright says.
“Going up to the semi-final last year, you’d have been very confident after the league performance against Tyrone but they were chalk and cheese. Kerry won’t be thinking the same now. Mayo will have two or three players back since the game in Tralee and the league final.
Supporters aren’t taking anything for granted. Things have been quiet enough. Kerry have been winning league titles recently and in the grand scheme of things they haven’t counted for much so beating Mayo handy enough and then Limerick in the Munster final hasn’t got anyone too high.
Win this game and possibly a semi-final with Dublin and things will ramp up. A lot of these boys are from those great minor teams. They’re hitting 24, 25 now. The expectation is there.”
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Post by Mickmack on Jun 25, 2022 8:20:03 GMT
Ciarán Whelan believes Mayo should consider starting Aidan O'Shea at full-forward for Sunday’s All-Ireland quarter-final with Kerry.
The RTÉ Sport pundit feels that the presence of the Breaffy man high up the field could cause an unsettling disruption and force Kerry to rethink their tactics for the Croke Park encounter.
Whelan also said that he believes Mayo manager James Horan has been very predictable throughout the season and needs to make some changes to have a chance to compete with the impressive Kerry unit.
The former Dublin midfielder is expecting a very exciting encounter in relation to the battle between the star-studded Kerry forwards and renowned Mayo defence. However, he feels there is less competition from a Mayo perspective at the other end of the pitch.
"Who’s going to match up with David Clifford, Paudie Clifford or Seanie O’Shea?" said Whelan, speaking on this week’s RTÉ GAA Podcast.
"Mayo have great defenders, but when you look at the match-ups at the other end of the field, there’s nothing there that really frightens you from a Kerry perspective.
"We don’t know if Ryan O’Donoghue is going to play. Cillian O’Connor is back in there but he may have lost a bit of pace. He still has the smartness and the intelligence. But that sticks out as a different threat at either end of the field.
"James Horan has been very predictable but they need to do something different this weekend.
"Would he spook Jack O’Connor if he stuck Aidan O’Shea in on the edge of the square?
"Even if they put a couple of balls in in the opening ten minutes, and even if they didn’t win them, it refocuses the Kerry management mindset, distracts them and it just offers something different."
Former Kerry manager Éamonn Fitzmaurice was in total agreement with the Raheny man, stating that he believes full-forward is O’Shea's best position and suggests that such a move would have a real impact on the role of Kerry sweeper Tadhg Morley, who would have to drop much deeper.
"I 100% agree," added Fitzmaurice. "I’ve long felt that it’s his best position. And if Mayo used him in there he could be very effective as a target man, maybe not as a huge scoring threat, he’d probably score more goals than points.
"Take Tadhg Morley’s role, which has been very important for Kerry this year, and if he is setting up for a traditional Mayo attack, he is beginning as a sweeper further out, he’s playing from the top of the 'D', his job as a sweeper is to deal with runners.
"Whereas if you had Aidan O’Shea inside as a target man, Morley has to drop 20 yards deeper to deal with kick-ball inside and it creates the space outside for the runners to come in as well.
"So straight away, that little bit of a change to Tadhg’s role, it changes the dynamic for him.
"James Horan will argue that his way of playing is effective and it has got them so far but it hasn’t won them the big, big games, so I do think that they need to come with something slightly different this weekend."
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Post by Mickmack on Jun 25, 2022 10:18:17 GMT
MayoGAABlog - remarkable and insightful comment, amazing TBH! thanks for posting. soundcloud.com/themayonews/kerry-preview-wkevin-mcstay-tony-leen-2022-ep-25Very honest and interesting chat from Kevin McStay and Tony Leen and the moderator didn't interrupt much. I imagine the discussion would have been quite different had they known Jack Barry and Adrian Spillane were out. Strangely enough, I feel a bit more confident about tomorrow than I was v Tyrone last year because there is a complete absence of the mindless hubris that settled over Kerry last year after the league game in Killarney when Kerry scored 6 goals. I believe that permeates through to the players. At the end of the day its usually the team with the better panel prevails. Wexford had no impact from the bench last weekend whereas Clare had Meehan and Shanaher. The loss of JB and AS probably evens up the two panels a bit more. SoS may move to midfield at some stage but Killian Spillane, Tony Brosnan, Jack Savage are serious options and possible would be starters on the Mayo side. Its a tantalising prospect. Can't wait.
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peanuts
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Post by peanuts on Jun 25, 2022 10:24:43 GMT
No Ryan O’Donoghue on the Mayo bench.
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MeathExile
Full Member
I wonder, is there a goal in this game??
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Post by MeathExile on Jun 25, 2022 11:13:20 GMT
I agree with a couple of posters here on the perennial Aidan O Shea question. I think they play better without him- a great guy to win a ball but what comes after is the issue. He is definitely not an inter county forward - too slow and not accurate enough, except against the weaker Connacht countries.
I wonder if Horan is tempted to try putting him on David C - a la full back on Donaghy in 2018?….. he is one of the few lads physically capable of matching him.
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Post by Annascaultilidie on Jun 25, 2022 11:24:36 GMT
I wonder if Horan is tempted to try putting him on David C - a la full back on Donaghy in 2018?….. he is one of the few lads physically capable of matching him. That would be absolutely cruel.
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peanuts
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Post by peanuts on Jun 25, 2022 12:01:17 GMT
The a sense of Ryan Ó Donoghue is huge as he has caused us problems and I believe he is Mayo s best forward by far. I think Keegan will mark Clifford and if he does I hope Clifford stays inside and does nt go wandering. I think AOS will go ff. We need a big game from Diarmuid tomorrow. You’d expect them to try AOS at full forward at some stage as Foley hasn’t really faced a big FF this year. They also have Flynn to go midfield. They have an advantage on us in terms of height around the middle. It’ll be interesting to see if that is exploited.
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Post by Whosinmidfield on Jun 25, 2022 13:42:58 GMT
Both Tony Leen and Kevin McStay said that they consider Sean O’Shea to be the best footballer in the Ireland. That certainly surprised me, I absolutely rate O’Shea but that’s a big statement, I’d have him top 10 alright. Would love to see him put in a statement performance tomorrow though. He was outstanding in both All Ireland finals in 2019 and the only other big championship game we’ve had since then really was Tyrone last year. It’s a great opportunity for players to show what they can do in the big games.
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Post by Annascaultilidie on Jun 25, 2022 14:31:34 GMT
Both Tony Leen and Kevin McStay said that they consider Sean O’Shea to be the best footballer in the Ireland. That certainly surprised me, I absolutely rate O’Shea but that’s a big statement, I’d have him top 10 alright. Would love to see him put in a statement performance tomorrow though. He was outstanding in both All Ireland finals in 2019 and the only other big championship game we’ve had since then really was Tyrone last year. It’s a great opportunity for players to show what they can do in the big games. Did they say that? I know they said they thought he was better than Clifford and Kerry s best player but was nt sure they said Ireland. A big statement but as I say everyone has different opinions. I mean I think Clifford is special but I think Seanie is more consistent and a better decision maker. When David is on fire there s no better player to watch and he is unmarkable but I believe sometimes he does very silly things including losing easy ball. Seanie is steadier but Seanie sometimes is quiet too although he covers some ground. Shane Walsh (Galway is another superstar) with unreal speed and skill but sometimes goes missing too. Con Ó Callaghan has brute strength and a natural scorer too. Con is more consistent than David rarely having a bad day but does nt have the flair of David or indeed Shane Walsh. Its hard to call but glad to have both Seanie and David to call upon. Clifford might be human but to say he isn't consistent... disagree like hell. FYI Tony Leen often describes SOS as the best player in Ireland.
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mossie
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Post by mossie on Jun 25, 2022 15:09:31 GMT
I agree with a couple of posters here on the perennial Aidan O Shea question. I think they play better without him- a great guy to win a ball but what comes after is the issue. He is definitely not an inter county forward - too slow and not accurate enough, except against the weaker Connacht countries. I wonder if Horan is tempted to try putting him on David C - a la full back on Donaghy in 2018?….. he is one of the few lads physically capable of matching him. There is more chance of Willie Joe Padden and Liam McHale starting midfield than AOS starting at 3
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horsebox77
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Our trees & mountains are silent ghosts, they hold wisdom and knowledge mankind has long forgotten.
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Post by horsebox77 on Jun 25, 2022 15:24:03 GMT
I agree with a couple of posters here on the perennial Aidan O Shea question. I think they play better without him- a great guy to win a ball but what comes after is the issue. He is definitely not an inter county forward - too slow and not accurate enough, except against the weaker Connacht countries. I wonder if Horan is tempted to try putting him on David C - a la full back on Donaghy in 2018?….. he is one of the few lads physically capable of matching him. There is more chance of Willie Joe Padden and Liam McHale starting midfield than AOS starting at 3 I'd nearly still pick Willie Joe over Aidan O'Shea 😂😂
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Post by macdanger on Jun 25, 2022 15:32:02 GMT
The slight optimism we had last night after seeing the absentees from the kerry bench is well and truly tempered by the absentees from our own bench today, McHale in particular is a big miss IMO
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keane
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Post by keane on Jun 25, 2022 16:57:43 GMT
Can someone post the Mayo 26 please? Can't seem to find it
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Post by Kerryman Randy Savage on Jun 25, 2022 17:17:04 GMT
Can someone post the Mayo 26 please? Can't seem to find it
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Post by Attacking Wing Back on Jun 25, 2022 19:52:10 GMT
I think we might lack some stopping power around the middle sans Barry and Spillane.
If Mayo do set up with a sweeper I can see SOB playing a quasi inside forward role and Paudie going on the wing. If Mayo play a sweeper and Kerry play 3 up top it means that there should be more space for our half backs midfielders to run into. Also means if we turn over the ball in the middle 8 Mayo lads will have a lot of ground to make up from the full back line to join the attack
Also if you play SOB central and have him break to the wing around 30 yards out. If he gets the ball he can take on his man. If he gets past his man then the sweeper has a decision to make. Come out to meet SOB or let him bare down on goal. If he comes out to meet him it means Geaney and Clifford are one and one inside. Also if he leaves the centre a pop pass to an on rushing White or Beagloaich could be an option. He could rotate with DM to keep Mayo honest.
If Mayo dont play a sweeper then hit Clifford and geaney early and often.
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mike70
Senior Member
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Post by mike70 on Jun 25, 2022 20:25:15 GMT
I think we might lack some stopping power around the middle sans Barry and Spillane. If Mayo do set up with a sweeper I can see SOB playing a quasi inside forward role and Paudie going on the wing. If Mayo play a sweeper and Kerry play 3 up top it means that there should be more space for our half backs midfielders to run into. Also means if we turn over the ball in the middle 8 Mayo lads will have a lot of ground to make up from the full back line to join the attack Also if you play SOB central and have him break to the wing around 30 yards out. If he gets the ball he can take on his man. If he gets past his man then the sweeper has a decision to make. Come out to meet SOB or let him bare down on goal. If he comes out to meet him it means Geaney and Clifford are one and one inside. Also if he leaves the centre a pop pass to an on rushing White or Beagloaich could be an option. He could rotate with DM to keep Mayo honest. If Mayo dont play a sweeper then hit Clifford and geaney early and often. SOB attacks the goal , never plays with his back to goal, not that type of player. SOB is foraging from our back line to forward, hoping to create an overlap with his run, there be no quasi inside imo, we are a 2 man FF line.
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