mike70
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Post by mike70 on Dec 7, 2021 23:35:34 GMT
Has anyone got a list of the extended panel from last year, who will be the leavers and joiners.
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horsebox77
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Post by horsebox77 on Dec 8, 2021 16:22:08 GMT
For me the following: Goalkeepers: Shane Ryan, plus one of Fitzgibbon, O’Brien or the Dingle keeper, his name escapes me.
Backs: Gavin White, Tom Sullivan , Mike Breen, Brian Begley. Jason Foley, Paul Murphy, Gavin Crowley, Graham O’Sullivan. Tadgh Morley, New in Stefan Okunbor, Dylan Casey, maybe Dan O’Donoghue, Dan O’Brien from Glenflesk, Eddie Horan, Barry Mahony and Evan Cronin, on form would we look at Andrew Barry as well. Would we bring back in Cormac Coffey?
Midfield: Diarmuid O’Connor, Joe O’Connor, Paul O’Shea, Jack Barry, Adrain Spillane, have a look at Adam O’Donoghue Castleisland, Greg Horan Stacks and Hoare from Strand road also impressed.
Forwards, surprisingly, I half struggled here, Paudie Clifford, Sean O’Shea, Dara Moynihan, David Clifford. Killian Spillane, Tony Brosnan, David Shaw, Donal O’Sullivan, Liam Carey, some of the above in mid-field like Diarmuid, Adam and Spillane or Paul O’Shea can all play the number ten role. Burns has been there but not consistently nailed down a spot,
Others have been tried before, Gavin O’Brien and Jack Savage come to mind, Dara Roche but size is an issue here as is the majority of the County winning side.
Three of our All Ireland winning panel of 2014: David Moran, Paul Geaney and Stephen O’Brien may struggle for game time as well as Jack Sherwood. Mother time and open spaces is no place for mileage on the legs and lads the wrong side of 30. I think it’s coldly culling time and aim for youth.
Last year’s extended panel had Pa Kilkenny, Brian Leonard, and Kenmare pair Fitzgibbon and Mid-fielder Kevin O’Sullivan.. as well as Ronan Buckley. Apart from the injury to Ryan none of them really saw game time.
I personally don’t buy into or belong to the bring in Guthrie or Shane Murphy club. As I alluded to above, for me it’s a young man’s game even in goals and it’s the future we need to be looking at.
There is another six or seven at least to be added to the above and a guaranteed nailed on starter that I have omitted.
Entry into the McGrath Cup is imperative for me and a stepping stone for the above to gauge progression.
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Post by veteran on Dec 8, 2021 17:10:09 GMT
On the Castleisland there there is an Adam Donoghue and an Adam O’Donoghue The lad who has impressed me is Adam Donoghue . He usually plays at midfield . Played there impressively for St. Kierans against Strand Road. It think it was he who played Kerry minor a few years back. The similarity in the names is confusing and maybe anybody from the Castleisland area on here might shed some light on this topic.
Luka Brosnan is a defender from the same club who also has impressed me.
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Post by Mickmack on Dec 8, 2021 17:21:39 GMT
For me the following: Goalkeepers: Shane Ryan, plus one of Fitzgibbon, O’Brien or the Dingle keeper, his name escapes me. Backs: Gavin White, Tom Sullivan , Mike Breen, Brian Begley. Jason Foley, Paul Murphy, Gavin Crowley, Graham O’Sullivan. Tadgh Morley, New in Stefan Okunbor, Dylan Casey, maybe Dan O’Donoghue, Dan O’Brien from Glenflesk, Eddie Horan, Barry Mahony and Evan Cronin, on form would we look at Andrew Barry as well. Would we bring back in Cormac Coffey? Midfield: Diarmuid O’Connor, Joe O’Connor, Paul O’Shea, Jack Barry, Adrain Spillane, have a look at Adam O’Donoghue Castleisland, Greg Horan Stacks and Hoare from Strand road also impressed. Forwards, surprisingly, I half struggled here, Paudie Clifford, Sean O’Shea, Dara Moynihan, David Clifford. Killian Spillane, Tony Brosnan, David Shaw, Donal O’Sullivan, Liam Carey, some of the above in mid-field like Diarmuid, Adam and Spillane or Paul O’Shea can all play the number ten role. Burns has been there but not consistently nailed down a spot, Others have been tried before, Gavin O’Brien and Jack Savage come to mind, Dara Roche but size is an issue here as is the majority of the County winning side. Three of our All Ireland winning panel of 2014: David Moran, Paul Geaney and Stephen O’Brien may struggle for game time as well as Jack Sherwood. Mother time and open spaces is no place for mileage on the legs and lads the wrong side of 30. I think it’s coldly culling time and aim for youth. Last year’s extended panel had Pa Kilkenny, Brian Leonard, and Kenmare pair Fitzgibbon and Mid-fielder Kevin O’Sullivan.. as well as Ronan Buckley. Apart from the injury to Ryan none of them really saw game time. I personally don’t buy into or belong to the bring in Guthrie or Shane Murphy club. As I alluded to above, for me it’s a young man’s game even in goals and it’s the future we need to be looking at. There is another six or seven at least to be added to the above and a guaranteed nailed on starter that I have omitted. Entry into the McGrath Cup is imperative for me and a stepping stone for the above to gauge progression. Gavin White is great as an attacking wing back but in the art of defending without fouling i feel that he will be put though his paces by Jack and Tally. I'd he surprised if Jack doesn't give Jack Savage a fair hearing. Any lad who loses possession too easily or in the tackle is likely going to have to shape up or ship out.
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horsebox77
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Our trees & mountains are silent ghosts, they hold wisdom and knowledge mankind has long forgotten.
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Post by horsebox77 on Dec 8, 2021 17:37:51 GMT
On the Castleisland there there is an Adam Donoghue and an Adam O’Donoghue The lad who has impressed me is Adam Donoghue . He usually plays at midfield . Played there impressively for St. Kierans against Strand Road. It think it was he who played Kerry minor a few years back. The similarity in the names is confusing and maybe anybody from the Castleisland area on here might shed some light on this topic. Luka Brosnan is a defender from the same club who also has impressed me. Yes, I am referring to the midfielder, physically imposing but a mobile unit, similar to Joe O’Conner, I can’t recall is he the “O’Donoghue” or the Donoghue.
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Post by Whosinmidfield on Dec 8, 2021 17:42:47 GMT
I think one area we really need fresh blood is wing forward. Last year Stephen O’Brien and Dara Moynihan mainly filled those roles and there were few alternatives apart from Michael Burns. O’Brien didn’t have a good year and looked to have gone way back from where he was in 2019. Hopefully he will return to form but he could be very effective coming from the bench too. Moynihan was excellent up until he got injured which seemed to affect his performance in the semi final. Still though size is an issue especially when Paudie Clifford is a guaranteed starter. I think it’s fairly definite Jack is going to require a huge work rate from anyone playing there and I think he will want physicality there too. I hope that he looks at players who also bring a real attacking threat or will really contribute to the build up play. For me 3 players fit the bill; Eddie Horan, Eanna O’Conchuir and Barry Mahony. Horan was on the panel last year while the other two have been on it previously. Horan is also a very good option at full forward. He’s really impressed for the u20s and Kierans in recent years. Things didn’t really work out for O’Conchuir when Fitzmaurice tried him in 2018 although he definitely had a few promising displays. With a bit of coaching on not trying to take on too many players like has to with Ghaeltacht, I think he could be a great option. Barry Mahony has strengthened up in the last year or two and has always been well able to play.
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mike70
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Post by mike70 on Dec 8, 2021 18:15:45 GMT
For me the following: Goalkeepers: Shane Ryan, plus one of Fitzgibbon, O’Brien or the Dingle keeper, his name escapes me. Backs: Gavin White, Tom Sullivan , Mike Breen, Brian Begley. Jason Foley, Paul Murphy, Gavin Crowley, Graham O’Sullivan. Tadgh Morley, New in Stefan Okunbor, Dylan Casey, maybe Dan O’Donoghue, Dan O’Brien from Glenflesk, Eddie Horan, Barry Mahony and Evan Cronin, on form would we look at Andrew Barry as well. Would we bring back in Cormac Coffey? Midfield: Diarmuid O’Connor, Joe O’Connor, Paul O’Shea, Jack Barry, Adrain Spillane, have a look at Adam O’Donoghue Castleisland, Greg Horan Stacks and Hoare from Strand road also impressed. Forwards, surprisingly, I half struggled here, Paudie Clifford, Sean O’Shea, Dara Moynihan, David Clifford. Killian Spillane, Tony Brosnan, David Shaw, Donal O’Sullivan, Liam Carey, some of the above in mid-field like Diarmuid, Adam and Spillane or Paul O’Shea can all play the number ten role. Burns has been there but not consistently nailed down a spot, Others have been tried before, Gavin O’Brien and Jack Savage come to mind, Dara Roche but size is an issue here as is the majority of the County winning side. Three of our All Ireland winning panel of 2014: David Moran, Paul Geaney and Stephen O’Brien may struggle for game time as well as Jack Sherwood. Mother time and open spaces is no place for mileage on the legs and lads the wrong side of 30. I think it’s coldly culling time and aim for youth. Last year’s extended panel had Pa Kilkenny, Brian Leonard, and Kenmare pair Fitzgibbon and Mid-fielder Kevin O’Sullivan.. as well as Ronan Buckley. Apart from the injury to Ryan none of them really saw game time. I personally don’t buy into or belong to the bring in Guthrie or Shane Murphy club. As I alluded to above, for me it’s a young man’s game even in goals and it’s the future we need to be looking at. There is another six or seven at least to be added to the above and a guaranteed nailed on starter that I have omitted. Entry into the McGrath Cup is imperative for me and a stepping stone for the above to gauge progression. top class summary horse box, a serious knowledge bank on kerry football. On the goal keeper I would bring murphy in , more range in his kicks. Defensively I think you nailed it, but might be 2 or 3 from previous panel to be cut loose, same in the forwards . On the McGrath cup , 100% need to enter a team , it should be an opportunity for the marginal players to raise their hands for a squad shirt.
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mike70
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Post by mike70 on Dec 8, 2021 18:21:25 GMT
I think one area we really need fresh blood is wing forward. Last year Stephen O’Brien and Dara Moynihan mainly filled those roles and there were few alternatives apart from Michael Burns. O’Brien didn’t have a good year and looked to have gone way back from where he was in 2019. Hopefully he will return to form but he could be very effective coming from the bench too. Moynihan was excellent up until he got injured which seemed to affect his performance in the semi final. Still though size is an issue especially when Paudie Clifford is a guaranteed starter. I think it’s fairly definite Jack is going to require a huge work rate from anyone playing there and I think he will want physicality there too. I hope that he looks at players who also bring a real attacking threat or will really contribute to the build up play. For me 3 players fit the bill; Eddie Horan, Eanna O’Conchuir and Barry Mahony. Horan was on the panel last year while the other two have been on it previously. Horan is also a very good option at full forward. He’s really impressed for the u20s and Kierans in recent years. Things didn’t really work out for O’Conchuir when Fitzmaurice tried him in 2018 although he definitely had a few promising displays. With a bit of coaching on not trying to take on too many players like has to with Ghaeltacht, I think he could be a great option. Barry Mahony has strengthened up in the last year or two and has always been well able to play. I think the lads you mention are good footballers, but I don’t see any of them brining an impact from the bench and that’s where they will be coming from, out of the 3 you mention I take Eanna, but needs work on his decision making. We need guys who can operate under pressure and that’s not a quality that is widely available.
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Post by greengold35 on Dec 8, 2021 19:05:20 GMT
On the Castleisland there there is an Adam Donoghue and an Adam O’Donoghue The lad who has impressed me is Adam Donoghue . He usually plays at midfield . Played there impressively for St. Kierans against Strand Road. It think it was he who played Kerry minor a few years back. The similarity in the names is confusing and maybe anybody from the Castleisland area on here might shed some light on this topic. Luka Brosnan is a defender from the same club who also has impressed me. Yes, I am referring to the midfielder, physically imposing but a mobile unit, similar to Joe O’Conner, I can’t recall is he the “O’Donoghue” or the Donoghue. Adam Donoghue is the midfielder & former minor.
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Post by greengold35 on Dec 8, 2021 19:23:07 GMT
For me the following: Goalkeepers: Shane Ryan, plus one of Fitzgibbon, O’Brien or the Dingle keeper, his name escapes me. Backs: Gavin White, Tom Sullivan , Mike Breen, Brian Begley. Jason Foley, Paul Murphy, Gavin Crowley, Graham O’Sullivan. Tadgh Morley, New in Stefan Okunbor, Dylan Casey, maybe Dan O’Donoghue, Dan O’Brien from Glenflesk, Eddie Horan, Barry Mahony and Evan Cronin, on form would we look at Andrew Barry as well. Would we bring back in Cormac Coffey? Midfield: Diarmuid O’Connor, Joe O’Connor, Paul O’Shea, Jack Barry, Adrain Spillane, have a look at Adam O’Donoghue Castleisland, Greg Horan Stacks and Hoare from Strand road also impressed. Forwards, surprisingly, I half struggled here, Paudie Clifford, Sean O’Shea, Dara Moynihan, David Clifford. Killian Spillane, Tony Brosnan, David Shaw, Donal O’Sullivan, Liam Carey, some of the above in mid-field like Diarmuid, Adam and Spillane or Paul O’Shea can all play the number ten role. Burns has been there but not consistently nailed down a spot, Others have been tried before, Gavin O’Brien and Jack Savage come to mind, Dara Roche but size is an issue here as is the majority of the County winning side. Three of our All Ireland winning panel of 2014: David Moran, Paul Geaney and Stephen O’Brien may struggle for game time as well as Jack Sherwood. Mother time and open spaces is no place for mileage on the legs and lads the wrong side of 30. I think it’s coldly culling time and aim for youth. Last year’s extended panel had Pa Kilkenny, Brian Leonard, and Kenmare pair Fitzgibbon and Mid-fielder Kevin O’Sullivan.. as well as Ronan Buckley. Apart from the injury to Ryan none of them really saw game time. I personally don’t buy into or belong to the bring in Guthrie or Shane Murphy club. As I alluded to above, for me it’s a young man’s game even in goals and it’s the future we need to be looking at. There is another six or seven at least to be added to the above and a guaranteed nailed on starter that I have omitted. Entry into the McGrath Cup is imperative for me and a stepping stone for the above to gauge progression. The list is extensive and I would add the following: Devon Burns ( Na Gaeil) is a keeper who has impressed me & I think should be looked at to put pressure on Shane Ryan Some of the present panel namely Gavin Crowley, Tadgh Morley & Adrian Spillane will I think struggle for squad numbers - likewise Graham O’Sullivan who had a poor year for Dromid. The problem for these guys is that when not playing for Kerry they are not playing club either & May have an impact on their performances- this is one thing I would hope Jack will sort out but given his history it’s unlikely. A couple of guys I would like to see introduced are Darragh Lyne & Seán O’Brien - think both have great potential.
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Post by john4 on Dec 8, 2021 19:37:52 GMT
We haven't had a really good goalie since Diarmuid Murphy imo. We've been struggling here for some time and didn't see anyone in the county championship standing out in this position either, worrying. A converted midfielder was as good as anyone.
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Post by Whosinmidfield on Dec 8, 2021 19:53:32 GMT
I think one area we really need fresh blood is wing forward. Last year Stephen O’Brien and Dara Moynihan mainly filled those roles and there were few alternatives apart from Michael Burns. O’Brien didn’t have a good year and looked to have gone way back from where he was in 2019. Hopefully he will return to form but he could be very effective coming from the bench too. Moynihan was excellent up until he got injured which seemed to affect his performance in the semi final. Still though size is an issue especially when Paudie Clifford is a guaranteed starter. I think it’s fairly definite Jack is going to require a huge work rate from anyone playing there and I think he will want physicality there too. I hope that he looks at players who also bring a real attacking threat or will really contribute to the build up play. For me 3 players fit the bill; Eddie Horan, Eanna O’Conchuir and Barry Mahony. Horan was on the panel last year while the other two have been on it previously. Horan is also a very good option at full forward. He’s really impressed for the u20s and Kierans in recent years. Things didn’t really work out for O’Conchuir when Fitzmaurice tried him in 2018 although he definitely had a few promising displays. With a bit of coaching on not trying to take on too many players like has to with Ghaeltacht, I think he could be a great option. Barry Mahony has strengthened up in the last year or two and has always been well able to play. I think the lads you mention are good footballers, but I don’t see any of them brining an impact from the bench and that’s where they will be coming from, out of the 3 you mention I take Eanna, but needs work on his decision making. We need guys who can operate under pressure and that’s not a quality that is widely available. I think Eddie Horan would bring an impact from the bench. Mahony isn’t an impact type player. I wouldn’t say they’ll be coming from the bench though. I think there’s 2 positions in the forwards up for grabs that they are capable of taking. I can see us lining out with 2 out and out inside forwards with Paudie and Seanie lining out in a link role on the 40. There’s 2 wing forward positions are up for grabs then. I think it could be that the likes of Stephen O’Brien and Dara Moynihan are held in reserve to come on and make an impact with the 3 I mentioned as possible starters or maybe Diarmuid O’Connor will be at wing forward. On the goalkeeper position, watching Murphy for Crokes his kick outs were absolutely top class. He was regularly putting it into a runners chest way out the field without them needing to break stride. Whenever I’ve seen Ryan at club level I’ve seen nothing like that from him. Also I think Murphy has a greater distance on his kickout. I think it’s clear that Ryan’s kick outs are a level below that of Beggan’s, Patton’s etc. so I think it’s well worth bringing Murphy into to compete with him. At the very least he’d be a better backup than Fitzgibbon.
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Post by veteran on Dec 8, 2021 20:18:00 GMT
I agree with Whoisinmidfield regarding Eanna O’Conchuir . I feel that man should be looked at again. The fact that he was there a couple of years ago under a different manager is neither here nor there.
Kingdomboy asks about Paul O’Shea at midfield? About two years ago in Tralee the u20 management started him at corner forward where they allowed him to languish inexplicably for the first half. Came to midfield in the second half where he turned the game. Did he start in the forward line again this year against Cork? Only made his impact when he came out.
Some people might regard Mickmack’s questioning of Gavin’s defensive contribution as heretical. I am inclined to agree with him. In my view , Gavin comes forward too often. I know these runs can be defence splitting but bursting forward like that should be the exception rather than the rule. First of all these bursts forward clearly are hugely oxygen intensive. On top of that , if at the end of one or two of these runs you are met with a thunderous shoulder , fair or foul, as he was against Strand Road, then you maybe flying on one wing by even the half time break which can result in lazy tackling. So I would hope in 2022, courtesy of management, to see Gavin only burst forward when opportune as a consequence of which he will conserve his energy which will in turn eliminate lazy, frees inducing tackling. I suspect it will happen. If so , you are talking about a peerless wingback.
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horsebox77
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Our trees & mountains are silent ghosts, they hold wisdom and knowledge mankind has long forgotten.
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Post by horsebox77 on Dec 8, 2021 20:32:07 GMT
Veteran, I posted this on another thread but moved it.
No I think Paul is better suited facing the goals, I think as a midfielder or a third mid fielder on the wing is Paul's best position.
I was amazed both he and Kilgarvan's Donal O'Sullivan didn't start for EK two serious talents wasted on the bench the night the starting XV failed to trouble the umpires
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Post by Whosinmidfield on Dec 8, 2021 20:48:59 GMT
We’ve been drawn in a group with Limerick and Tipperary in the McGrath Cup. We’ve Limerick at home and Tipp away. The group winner plays the winner of the Cork, Clare and Waterford group in a final. Early January this will take place. A great opportunity the look at a lot of the players with a chance of making the breakthrough.
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horsebox77
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Our trees & mountains are silent ghosts, they hold wisdom and knowledge mankind has long forgotten.
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Post by horsebox77 on Dec 8, 2021 20:55:13 GMT
If my memory is correct did Kerry play Limerick in the McGrath Cup at a north kerry club venue few years back, was it Duagh or Tarbert?
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mike70
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Post by mike70 on Dec 8, 2021 21:14:52 GMT
It’s great to see a potential of 3 games in the McGrath cup, it will give the new management time to finalise their squad, I am assuming the bulk of the regulars won’t be playing, plus the stacks boys will be on their munster & potential all ireland series.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Dec 8, 2021 21:30:17 GMT
It’s great to see a potential of 3 games in the McGrath cup, it will give the new management time to finalise their squad, I am assuming the bulk of the regulars won’t be playing, plus the stacks boys will be on their munster & potential all ireland series. And the nagaeil guys also I assume would be missing.
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Post by onlykerry on Dec 8, 2021 21:48:18 GMT
New management will certainly give some fringe players something to think about - Shane Murphy is definitely a good keeper with probably the best kick out of those around. However when he was in the panel he appeared to walk away rather than fight for his place and this is a concern - perhaps there was more going on in the background.
I would also suspect JOC will have a system that he will want to implement and this may give opportunities to some unlikely players who will play Jack's system - this was very evident in the minor squads he managed. He also seemed to hold Andrew Barry in very high regard as a minor so would not be surprised to seem him get another chance.
Someone earlier mentioned Paul Geaney in the context of him finding it hard to get games - I thought Paul announced his retirement a few weeks back.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 8, 2021 22:04:36 GMT
I agree with Whoisinmidfield regarding Eanna O’Conchuir . I feel that man should be looked at again. The fact that he was there a couple of years ago under a different manager is neither here nor there. Kingdomboy asks about Paul O’Shea at midfield? About two years ago in Tralee the u20 management started him at corner forward where they allowed him to languish inexplicably for the first half. Came to midfield in the second half where he turned the game. Did he start in the forward line again this year against Cork? Only made his impact when he came out. Some people might regard Mickmack’s questioning of Gavin’s defensive contribution as heretical. I am inclined to agree with him. In my view , Gavin comes forward too often. I know these runs can be defence splitting but bursting forward like that should be the exception rather than the rule. First of all these bursts forward clearly are hugely oxygen intensive. On top of that , if at the end of one or two of these runs you are met with a thunderous shoulder , fair or foul, as he was against Strand Road, then you maybe flying on one wing by even the half time break which can result in lazy tackling. So I would hope in 2022, courtesy of management, to see Gavin only burst forward when opportune as a consequence of which he will conserve his energy which will in turn eliminate lazy, frees inducing tackling. I suspect it will happen. If so , you are talking about a peerless wingback. vet I love watching White running with the ball, but it's very ineffective, he's sprinting from his own 40 and against Tyrone they were happy to let him make these lung bursting runs and they had him corralled and overturned by the time he hit the Tyrone 45, and you're correct, all it takes is 1 mistimed shoulder and he could be croked.
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mike70
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Post by mike70 on Dec 9, 2021 8:20:45 GMT
It’s great to see a potential of 3 games in the McGrath cup, it will give the new management time to finalise their squad, I am assuming the bulk of the regulars won’t be playing, plus the stacks boys will be on their munster & potential all ireland series. And the nagaeil guys also I assume would be missing. correct, not sure there opposition next week but you fancy them to progress .
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Post by onlykerry on Dec 9, 2021 10:58:50 GMT
I agree with Whoisinmidfield regarding Eanna O’Conchuir . I feel that man should be looked at again. The fact that he was there a couple of years ago under a different manager is neither here nor there. Kingdomboy asks about Paul O’Shea at midfield? About two years ago in Tralee the u20 management started him at corner forward where they allowed him to languish inexplicably for the first half. Came to midfield in the second half where he turned the game. Did he start in the forward line again this year against Cork? Only made his impact when he came out. Some people might regard Mickmack’s questioning of Gavin’s defensive contribution as heretical. I am inclined to agree with him. In my view , Gavin comes forward too often. I know these runs can be defence splitting but bursting forward like that should be the exception rather than the rule. First of all these bursts forward clearly are hugely oxygen intensive. On top of that , if at the end of one or two of these runs you are met with a thunderous shoulder , fair or foul, as he was against Strand Road, then you maybe flying on one wing by even the half time break which can result in lazy tackling. So I would hope in 2022, courtesy of management, to see Gavin only burst forward when opportune as a consequence of which he will conserve his energy which will in turn eliminate lazy, frees inducing tackling. I suspect it will happen. If so , you are talking about a peerless wingback. vet I love watching White running with the ball, but it's very ineffective, he's sprinting from his own 40 and against Tyrone they were happy to let him make these lung bursting runs and they had him corralled and overturned by the time he hit the Tyrone 45, and you're correct, all it takes is 1 mistimed shoulder and he could be croked. I often wonder about how we rate players - Gavin gets great attention for his fabulous runs yet his primary job should be his defensive abilities which many question. Wayne Gutherie was named keeper of the championship and his forrays out the field overlapping with team mates really caught the eye. Some are even suggesting he may have a role with Kerry. Wayne conceded 3 goals in this years championship but kept a clear sheet in the final. His counterpart (Foley) in the final kept a clean sheet in all four championship game, pulling off some fine saves in the process. Wayne put two kickouts over the sideline with Foley kicking one. I am not picking on Gutherie or White or putting Foley forward as a county contender in my critique but simply asking how we rate players - typically we react to factors that grab attention like charging down the field but do not analyse primary functions which are often lower key e.g. preventing or making scores.
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Post by Mickmack on Dec 9, 2021 11:12:58 GMT
vet I love watching White running with the ball, but it's very ineffective, he's sprinting from his own 40 and against Tyrone they were happy to let him make these lung bursting runs and they had him corralled and overturned by the time he hit the Tyrone 45, and you're correct, all it takes is 1 mistimed shoulder and he could be croked. I often wonder about how we rate players - Gavin gets great attention for his fabulous runs yet his primary job should be his defensive abilities which many question. Wayne Gutherie was named keeper of the championship and his forrays out the field overlapping with team mates really caught the eye. Some are even suggesting he may have a role with Kerry. Wayne conceded 3 goals in this years championship but kept a clear sheet in the final. His counterpart (Foley) in the final kept a clean sheet in all four championship game, pulling off some fine saves in the process. Wayne put two kickouts over the sideline with Foley kicking one. I am not picking on Gutherie or White or putting Foley forward as a county contender in my critique but simply asking how we rate players - typically we react to factors that grab attention like charging down the field but do not analyse primary functions which are often lower key e.g. preventing or making scores. KD was lucky that JOC was the manager when was 20. Many Kerry managers would consider that since KD couldnt at that stage kick with both feet or run like a greyhound he doesnt have what it takes. I am hopeful that JOC will prioritise a stout heart and competitive edge as a key attribute.
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Post by Ballyfireside on Dec 9, 2021 13:07:49 GMT
If the key difference between club and county is the ability to anticipate play, the manager's job then must be to sense who will do that best. Then he has to configure a team and where the competition may not be the same from 1-15, e.g. someone said we have an abundance of forwards with lads emulating the Gooch now coming of age. On that note I wonder if the sports academy at ITT/MTU focus on nurturing players by position, or indeed within individual codes - and what about nurturing managers?
KD had some amazing skills from basketball and the constraints of a court certainly sharpens players - will he go down as a great? Would he be on the best 15 ever, like the team of the millennium? How would he compare to say the Bomber?
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mike70
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Post by mike70 on Dec 9, 2021 14:10:28 GMT
On the Kerry panel I think players that played well during championship probably deserve another look. I'm kind of on horseboxes page and would give Andrew Barry and Cormac Coffey another look. I do think both could have a role with Kerry especially Barry. I'm not sure about Jack Savage. He s a fine club player but just don't think he d fit in with Kerry and also imo he has a temperament problem. Dylan Casey and Joe Ó Connor def have to be tried. Eddie Horan if fit can play many roles and very versatile. Would also make a good ff. Paul Geaney not finished yet and has been judged harshly imo as Clifford gets most ball played to him now. Paul still worth a slot for me. I like Gavin Crowley and his runs do cause havoc to opposing defenses. If we had a strong CB like Barry it might work.Jack managed the Narries for a while so has a grá for them so would nt be surprised to see a few getting recalls like Barry John (although I hope not). Barry, Casey & coffee definitely in for another look, IMO both better than some of the current 1 to 25 , I think your off the mark re savage, he played under EF in his first year and he was excellent from memory, and was no sending offs, I think no protection at club level, leaves him frustrated, but his football intelligence is second to none, as stated previously this is about strengthening your squad and he with the others would 100% contribute to this goal. As another poster mentioned, it’s about getting the players equipped for top flight and unfortunately a few out there might be good athletes, they don’t have football brains, let’s get the ballers in.
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Deleted
Deleted Member
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Post by Deleted on Dec 9, 2021 15:54:10 GMT
Given Jack initially brought the likes of Galvin, Mahoney and Donaghy into the squad, I think any temperament issues that Savage has can be addressed if needed. Both Clifford brothers are also deemed to have temperment issues at club level.
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mike70
Senior Member
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Post by mike70 on Dec 9, 2021 15:58:24 GMT
Given Jack initially brought the likes of Galvin, Mahoney and Donaghy into the squad, I think any temperament issues that Savage has can be addressed if needed. Both Clifford brothers are also deemed to have temperment issues at club level. very fair point kerry38, also what do posters think tally is brought in too the management team to do, create altar boys, don’t think so, a managed edge is good.
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Post by kyoverseas on Dec 9, 2021 17:39:59 GMT
On the Kerry panel I think players that played well during championship probably deserve another look. I'm kind of on horseboxes page and would give Andrew Barry and Cormac Coffey another look. I do think both could have a role with Kerry especially Barry. I'm not sure about Jack Savage. He s a fine club player but just don't think he d fit in with Kerry and also imo he has a temperament problem. Dylan Casey and Joe Ó Connor def have to be tried. Eddie Horan if fit can play many roles and very versatile. Would also make a good ff. Paul Geaney not finished yet and has been judged harshly imo as Clifford gets most ball played to him now. Paul still worth a slot for me. I like Gavin Crowley and his runs do cause havoc to opposing defenses. If we had a strong CB like Barry it might work.Jack managed the Narries for a while so has a grá for them so would nt be surprised to see a few getting recalls like Barry John (although I hope not). I agree Barry and Coffey should be brought in for another look. Greg Horan can play in a number of positions and was one of the standouts in this years championship. Barry John in his prime was still a great sub to bring on from the bench, which he has been a few years past his pomp, still a great club player, but should be in no conversation for the Kerry Squad 2022.
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Post by taggert on Dec 9, 2021 20:30:07 GMT
On the Kerry panel I think players that played well during championship probably deserve another look. I'm kind of on horseboxes page and would give Andrew Barry and Cormac Coffey another look. I do think both could have a role with Kerry especially Barry. I'm not sure about Jack Savage. He s a fine club player but just don't think he d fit in with Kerry and also imo he has a temperament problem. Dylan Casey and Joe Ó Connor def have to be tried. Eddie Horan if fit can play many roles and very versatile. Would also make a good ff. Paul Geaney not finished yet and has been judged harshly imo as Clifford gets most ball played to him now. Paul still worth a slot for me. I like Gavin Crowley and his runs do cause havoc to opposing defenses. If we had a strong CB like Barry it might work.Jack managed the Narries for a while so has a grá for them so would nt be surprised to see a few getting recalls like Barry John (although I hope not). Barry, Casey & coffee definitely in for another look, IMO both better than some of the current 1 to 25 , I think your off the mark re savage, he played under EF in his first year and he was excellent from memory, and was no sending offs, I think no protection at club level, leaves him frustrated, but his football intelligence is second to none, as stated previously this is about strengthening your squad and he with the others would 100% contribute to this goal. As another poster mentioned, it’s about getting the players equipped for top flight and unfortunately a few out there might be good athletes, they don’t have football brains, let’s get the ballers in. I dont recall Jack being excellent and if he was, why did he disappear off the radar? In my mind he, like Andrew Barry, is a very good club player but lacks the pace for top level inter county football. Paudie and Seanie struggled badly against Tyrone - that alone tells you the level required. The best 2 backs in the county championship for me were Dylan Casey and Cormac Coffee. Dylan, in my humble opinion, is already the best man marker in Kerry and Cormac has the pace, aggression and ability to transition between defence and attack, that Kerry need. The squad is packed with far too many players playing in the lower reaches of Kerry football and many of these were dire in the recent championship. They should not be given a free pass to return to the fold just because they sat idly on the bench under Keane.
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Post by Whosinmidfield on Dec 9, 2021 20:42:31 GMT
I don’t think Coffey is at that level personally. He’s also been tried before in 2018. He’s had an excellent championship but short of inter county. I think he’s very rash on the ball and gives it away often. Also he’s lacking size and physicality and you can get away with one back like that but we already have Tom O’Sullivan who’s probably our best back. I’d see Coffey as similar in style to a number of backs on the panel at a level below them. We’d want to be looking for most of our backs to have a physical presence. I’d be looking more at Casey, Dan O’Donoghue, Daniel O’Brien and maybe Okunbor. Andrew Barry has had a huge influence for both Na Gaeil and Brendans but his lack of pace will really be exposed at inter county level so for me he isn’t an option either.
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