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Post by Mickmack on Oct 25, 2020 10:06:22 GMT
Consent
GAA
Premium
Only Mayo or the virus will stop Dubs
Eamonn Sweeney
1 'Dublin's status as the greatest team of all-time in close finishes owed a lot to Jim Gavin's unflappability. Farrell's true worth won't be revealed until he faces something like the 2017 and 2019 All-Ireland finals last-ditch dogfights.' October 25 2020 02:30 AM
If the Dubs aren't caught this year, they'll never be caught. The All-Ireland champions have lost their long-time manager, their most talented player, the advantage of a huge partisan home support and the ability to prepare in their normal thorough fashion. The playing field has been levelled by these losses. So if not now, when?
Jim Gavin might be the most damaging absence. Dessie Farrell looks an excellent replacement but the real test won't come until he's confronted by one of those precarious situations which brought the best out of his predecessor.
Dublin's status as the greatest team of all-time in close finishes owed a lot to Gavin's unflappability. Farrell's true worth won't be revealed until he faces something like the 2017 and 2019 All-Ireland finals last-ditch dogfights.
The sudden nature of Jack McCaffrey's retirement perhaps made it seem more significant than it actually is. Because there has never been a team better able to absorb personnel losses than this Dublin outfit. The riches they possess are so great that sometimes the individual gems get lost in the overall glare.
Take someone like Paul Mannion. He's been the most consistently dangerous forward in the country over the past three seasons and the only one to win a hat-trick of All Star awards. Yet he doesn't really stand out because he's surrounded by so many other greats.
Like Con O'Callaghan, who three years ago produced the greatest debut season in the history of the championship and last year recovered magnificently after 2018's sophomore slump. In last year's final replay Mannion, O'Callaghan and Ciarán Kilkenny kicked 12 points from play between them, an astounding performance which slipped under the radar.
Kilkenny is another marvel while Dean Rock, perhaps Dublin's most consistent forward in All-Ireland finals, is the game's most prodigiously under-rated attacker. In Brian Fenton Dublin may have the best midfielder since Jack O'Shea. In Brian Howard they have the ultimate firefighter, a man with an unrivalled knack for making crucial contributions when the need is greatest.
The league has shown there's no loss of appetite in the peerlessly competitive James McCarthy. And while the Dublin full-back line is sometimes mentioned as a potential weak spot, we're only speaking in relative terms. Michael Fitzsimons has raised his game considerably over the past couple of seasons while Jonny Cooper would be an automatic choice in any other county.
Dublin also have the advantage of an easier run than their rivals. While Mayo must battle Galway, Donegal take on Tyrone and Kerry deal with a resurgent Cork, the Dubs will saunter through Leinster before meeting the Ulster rather than the Munster or Connacht champions in the All-Ireland semi-final.
The Dubs may be more vulnerable than ever this year but the biggest threat to their hopes of completing six in a row in December is Covid-19.
The championship is not an entirely foregone conclusion. Mayo and Kerry have come within an ace of dethroning the Dubs in recent years and remain their biggest threats.
Dublin's destruction of the former in the second half of last year's All-Ireland semi-final led to obituaries once more being written for the current red and green generation. Yet the comprehensive nature of that defeat tended to obscure the fact that James Horan's side had made important progress in 2019.
They'd won a national league title, laid their recent Galway bogey with a win in the final round of the qualifiers and made the semi-final by knocking out a Donegal side who up to that had been the second most impressive team in the Super 8. Mayo had even posed Dublin plenty of problems in the first half of that calamitous semi-final and led by two points at the break.
That the roof fell in shortly afterwards was partly due to one of Dublin's finest performances, but also owed a great deal to fatigue on the part of a team playing a seventh game in eight weeks.
Because of that collapse Mayo have largely been written off as contenders. That may be foolish. They retain a backbone of players who, as Galway and Donegal found out, are adept at winning tough championship games. Patrick Durcan is the best wing-back in football, the attacking mark could make Aidan O'Shea an irresistible force at full-forward, Cillian O'Connor has looked sprightly in the league while Lee Keegan and Kevin McLoughlin both enjoyed stellar club championship campaigns.
To these have been added some very exciting young players. Oisín Mullin and Mark Moran showed up particularly well in last week's win over Galway while the return of Matthew Ruane at midfield may be important. Ruane was outstanding in last year's league before his season was cut short by a collarbone injury. Mayo have emerged from the lockdown in flying form and should be well able for both Roscommon and Galway in Connacht. They're undervalued.
Kerry may be slightly overvalued. Last year's All-Ireland final draw with Dublin still feels like a singularly botched opportunity. The result exceeded expectations but the fact Kerry played for over half the game against 14 men contributed to that. Had Mayo possessed an extra man in the 2016 or 2017 finals they'd have beaten the Dubs.
The build-up to the replay abounded with claims that a fundamental change in the balance of power had taken place and that Kerry had caught up with Dublin. The replay told a very different story, yet there is still a groundswell of opinion out there which feels Kerry's day may be at hand. This is partly due to the presence of David Clifford who would improve almost any team by at least 50 per cent. Clifford has proved to be an even better senior player than predicted and has a magnificent supporting cast in Paul Geaney, Seán O'Shea and Stephen O'Brien.
Kerry also have a solid midfield and in Peter Keane an astute manager who's improved them since taking charge. But is it enough? The defence which was badly exposed by not just Dublin in last year's replay but by Donegal in the Super 8 and Mayo in the league final remains an Achilles heel.
The emergence of Tom O'Sullivan last year firmed things up a bit but even when the Kingdom did subdue the Dublin attack in the drawn game, there was a wing and a prayer feel to it. All the systems in the world can't prevent defenders eventually being exposed against stronger opponents.
That's why the eventual Kerry breakthrough will probably come on a day when Clifford and his cohorts run up the kind of score which renders weaknesses at the other end irrelevant. They have such a day in them but it remains to be seen whether they can produce it this year.
Only two other teams have a hope in this year's championship and one of them will be gone by next Sunday evening after they meet in Ballybofey. There are many good things about Donegal. They have the best defensive record in this year's league and at their best play a wonderful free-flowing kind of Total Football. The attacking mark is tailor-made for Michael Murphy, Jamie Brennan is on the verge of becoming one of the game's best forwards, Ryan McHugh is a unique wonder and the team is full of athletic talented players who are comfortable on the ball.
So why this sneaking feeling they'll be turned over by Tyrone? Perhaps because for two seasons in a row, Donegal have failed to produce their best form when it mattered most, against Mayo last year and next week's opposition the year before that.
Mickey Harte's Tyrone always get the best out of themselves which is why they've made the last four three years in a row. They are the anti-Donegal in ways, not particularly inspiring or attractive and short of outstanding individuals, blending into a barely distinguishable melange of McGeary, McCurry, McKiernan, McCann, Lafferty, Hampsey, Kennedy, Donnelly et al. Yet they get the job done and the blow of losing their one undoubted star, Cathal McShane, may be softened by the return of Conor McKenna, who on the evidence of last week could readjust to Gaelic football quicker than most Aussie Rules old boys.
Outside the big five, no-one has a prayer. Galway's league loss to Mayo suggests that while they will almost certainly do great things under Pádraic Joyce they won't do them this year. Monaghan's exemplary honesty and character keeps them competitive at league level, but they couldn't move up a gear in last year's championship and face a tricky opener against Cavan.
Meath and Cork are improving all the time, would have benefitted from another stint in the Super 8, but will have to be content with defeat at the hands of Dublin and Kerry. Roscommon will hardly upset a forewarned Mayo twice on the trot. Clare have showed up well in Division Two and should make it to the Munster final. Some smaller counties will wonder if it's worth the bother.
Here we go. Enjoy it while it lasts, because it might not last long. My head says Dublin, my heart says Mayo but my sixth sense says panic-stricken virus-related shutdown.
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Post by Mickmack on Oct 25, 2020 10:26:48 GMT
Consent
Gaelic Football
Premium
David Clifford is like some footballing terminator from the future sent back to overthrow the Dubs' evil empire
Joe Brolly
We are living in a parallel universe. A clueless Brexit spins around aimlessly, Rudy Giuliani claims he is the victim of erection fraud, Donald Trump warns Americans that if the Democrats get elected they will be forced to live in houses "with tiny little windows you can barely see out of" and in an empty Fitzgerald Stadium, an entire first half goes by without David Clifford scoring from play.
When we learned before throw-in that Donegal's superstar Michael Murphy was not even in the squad, we knew Donegal had only come to fulfil the fixture. Rory Kavanagh told me a story once about Murphy.
In the early days of the McGuinness experiment, Paddy McGrath had an opportunity to take the young titan out in training and took it, hitting him hard and late and putting him down.
Murphy shook himself, got back to his feet and got on with it. Five minutes later, Murphy poleaxed McGrath, leaving him lying on the ground for several minutes, gasping for breath. Kavanagh said it was the moment he knew they would win an All-Ireland.
Kavanagh said beforehand of the fringe players who made up the Donegal team that "it showed the level of commitment of these players that they had driven down alone in their cars from Donegal," which made me think of Mick O'Connell rowing across from Valentia Island to the mainland then cycling to Kerry training.
The stadium may have been empty but Covid has some advantages. It was a relief before throw-in that there was no Scór winner from Tobernascreel butchering the national anthem, a weekly ritual that borders on treachery. It is only a matter of time before All-Ireland finals day is spoiled by a lassie from Barna giving it up like Beyonce at the Super Bowl.
Without Murphy, and eight other first team players, after a first quarter which Marc ó Sé described as "a chess match" (translation: 'this is extremely boring'), Kerry switched from autopilot to manual and for the rest of the half played quite brilliantly, except for their goalkeeper who struggled badly on the kick-outs, which was fine for this game but will not do against the Dubs in eight weeks.
Kerry looked superbly well organised and played with great flair for a team that has only been training for a month, which shows you how stupid the normal eight-month pre-Championship training regime is.
Mayo were equally well organised and crisply skilled last weekend against Galway, though no top division team should be 16 points behind at half-time, even playing against a team with Stephen Cluxton in goals and six David Cliffords up front.
Clifford is beyond normal analysis, like some footballing terminator from the future sent back to overthrow the Dubs' evil empire, uninjurable, scanning his onfield options with a futuristic processor in microseconds.
One can imagine him saying to the unfortunate full-back sent to mark him "Give me your boots, your shorts and your shirt" before proceeding to score 2-5 from play.
During the first half here, he was in assist mode, suckering defenders in with bewildering movement and skill before suddenly, and surprisingly, sending a teammate through for an easy score.
For his third assist, harried aggressively by Donegal men, he soloed with his right foot, then left foot, bounced the ball with his left hand, then a left foot solo, then without warning, an inch perfect 40-metre cross-field kick pass to Tony Brosnan for a simple goal chance, which Brosnan, taken by surprise, botched, blasting it over the bar instead of accepting the invitation.
In the second half the terminator kicked points with both feet that no human being could score, before carefully putting on his sunglasses, swinging on to his Harley Davidson and roaring back to Fossa to be plugged back in to his recharging unit.
Sunday Indo Sport
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Post by Mickmack on Oct 25, 2020 10:33:24 GMT
The hyperbole about David is getting ridiculous. I am sure David thinks so too.
The evidence from the 2019 championship suggests that Sean oShea had a bigger contribution that David.
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Post by Mickmack on Oct 26, 2020 12:20:36 GMT
Donegal pulled their punches against Kerry.
Tyrone went toe to toe with Mayo.
Fascinating to see how Donegal and Tyrone works out.
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Post by Mickmack on Oct 26, 2020 12:31:24 GMT
Dublins ultra possession game of 2019 which resulted in a certain score in front of the posts was hard to beat.
Will they deploy the same tactics under new management and if so, what to do about it.
They looked 6 points a better team than Kerry in the replay.
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Post by john4 on Oct 26, 2020 12:41:02 GMT
I can see far more use of the advanced mark in the championship and could see it becoming a tactic that could be very profitable for teams that perfect it. There's a lot more of it in the last 2 rounds of the league than there was in the first 5. Dublin will try and hit Rock with the marks cause in fairness to him he's fairly accurate with the free shots, under pressure not so much. It's a great option to burn time also and kill momentum if in front.
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diego
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Post by diego on Oct 26, 2020 13:08:33 GMT
The advanced mark does nothing for the game. I think the idea is that we'd see old school full back v full forward duels in and around the square. Instead all we see is uncontested chest catches on the perimeters of the field followed by uncontested shots on goal, which isn't what the game is about. That's even before you go in to the confusion about whether a player has called the mark or not, has half played on or not, whether the ball was kicked to him from inside or outside the 45, and the fact players seem to run several yards inside the mark before taking the set shot.
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Post by john4 on Oct 26, 2020 13:37:38 GMT
The advanced mark does nothing for the game. I think the idea is that we'd see old school full back v full forward duels in and around the square. Instead all we see is uncontested chest catches on the perimeters of the field followed by uncontested shots on goal, which isn't what the game is about. That's even before you go in to the confusion about whether a player has called the mark or not, has half played on or not, whether the ball was kicked to him from inside or outside the 45, and the fact players seem to run several yards inside the mark before taking the set shot. I agree, it's a joke of a rule, hard work for the referees and horrible to watch but it's in now and I think it's going to have a huge bearing on the championship. If anyone thought this would get rid of the sweeper or packing the defence, this will have the opposite effect.
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Post by Ballyfireside on Oct 26, 2020 13:38:16 GMT
Consent Gaelic Football Premium David Clifford is like some footballing terminator from the future sent back to overthrow the Dubs' evil empire Joe Brolly We are living in a parallel universe. A clueless Brexit spins around aimlessly, Rudy Giuliani claims he is the victim of erection fraud, Donald Trump warns Americans that if the Democrats get elected they will be forced to live in houses "with tiny little windows you can barely see out of" and in an empty Fitzgerald Stadium, an entire first half goes by without David Clifford scoring from play. When we learned before throw-in that Donegal's superstar Michael Murphy was not even in the squad, we knew Donegal had only come to fulfil the fixture. Rory Kavanagh told me a story once about Murphy. In the early days of the McGuinness experiment, Paddy McGrath had an opportunity to take the young titan out in training and took it, hitting him hard and late and putting him down. Murphy shook himself, got back to his feet and got on with it. Five minutes later, Murphy poleaxed McGrath, leaving him lying on the ground for several minutes, gasping for breath. Kavanagh said it was the moment he knew they would win an All-Ireland. Kavanagh said beforehand of the fringe players who made up the Donegal team that "it showed the level of commitment of these players that they had driven down alone in their cars from Donegal," which made me think of Mick O'Connell rowing across from Valentia Island to the mainland then cycling to Kerry training. The stadium may have been empty but Covid has some advantages. It was a relief before throw-in that there was no Scór winner from Tobernascreel butchering the national anthem, a weekly ritual that borders on treachery. It is only a matter of time before All-Ireland finals day is spoiled by a lassie from Barna giving it up like Beyonce at the Super Bowl. Without Murphy, and eight other first team players, after a first quarter which Marc ó Sé described as "a chess match" (translation: 'this is extremely boring'), Kerry switched from autopilot to manual and for the rest of the half played quite brilliantly, except for their goalkeeper who struggled badly on the kick-outs, which was fine for this game but will not do against the Dubs in eight weeks. Kerry looked superbly well organised and played with great flair for a team that has only been training for a month, which shows you how stupid the normal eight-month pre-Championship training regime is. Mayo were equally well organised and crisply skilled last weekend against Galway, though no top division team should be 16 points behind at half-time, even playing against a team with Stephen Cluxton in goals and six David Cliffords up front. Clifford is beyond normal analysis, like some footballing terminator from the future sent back to overthrow the Dubs' evil empire, uninjurable, scanning his onfield options with a futuristic processor in microseconds. One can imagine him saying to the unfortunate full-back sent to mark him "Give me your boots, your shorts and your shirt" before proceeding to score 2-5 from play. During the first half here, he was in assist mode, suckering defenders in with bewildering movement and skill before suddenly, and surprisingly, sending a teammate through for an easy score. For his third assist, harried aggressively by Donegal men, he soloed with his right foot, then left foot, bounced the ball with his left hand, then a left foot solo, then without warning, an inch perfect 40-metre cross-field kick pass to Tony Brosnan for a simple goal chance, which Brosnan, taken by surprise, botched, blasting it over the bar instead of accepting the invitation. In the second half the terminator kicked points with both feet that no human being could score, before carefully putting on his sunglasses, swinging on to his Harley Davidson and roaring back to Fossa to be plugged back in to his recharging unit. Sunday Indo Sport Not being a Sindo subscriber I hoped against hope that I might have missed something here - I think Joeb is turning out like our own Billy The Kid though in fairness the latter doesn't so much assert technical prowess, well apart from claiming credit for reclaiming Sam after the drought as Paidí's unofficial special adviser - in fairness Joeb never claimed to be a bag man. All remains fair in love and war though we wouldn't mind intelligent analysis and where we are short of genuine readers of the game, as opposed to the blind leading the blind.
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Post by Ballyfireside on Oct 26, 2020 13:57:29 GMT
The advanced mark does nothing for the game. I think the idea is that we'd see old school full back v full forward duels in and around the square. Instead all we see is uncontested chest catches on the perimeters of the field followed by uncontested shots on goal, which isn't what the game is about. That's even before you go in to the confusion about whether a player has called the mark or not, has half played on or not, whether the ball was kicked to him from inside or outside the 45, and the fact players seem to run several yards inside the mark before taking the set shot. In business they call this BPR, Business Process Reengineering - we are now trying to reengineer back into the game what was a hallmark skill, and which we engineered out of it and along with many others skills, core skills, i.e. we deinvented it into uneventfulness, as we'd say at Ballythefireside. You have to ask the question why the likes of Mick O'Connell have no appreciation of the game today and I think we are focusing too much on athleticism as opposed to authentic skills, if more by omission than commission, unintended consequence, etc. Giving someone a reward for catching the ball as opposed to fielding it, is a bit like training a dog only we trained him to not catch the ball. Though I know Aussie rules to be better in the flesh, I found it challenging to keep my attention on Saturday's Grand Final. GAA Football is far more skilled than any other 'big-ball' sport - soccer, rugby, Aussie, etc, but it needs to be steered towards nurturing original skills and once in that furrow, new skills would be unearthed. How that is done is the big question - going with the flow of other codes is travelling in the opposite direction. When was the last time you heard a WOW at a game? Well Clifford had a few vs Monaghan - ah yeah, we have them alright but given the resources today maybe we should have more. I'd contend that while there are more possibilities, we are not joining-the-dots. In a strange if valid comparison, one Dr Niall Tubridy in his book would say that medics now know more about less, and if we rely on machines as in Artificial Intelligence to Join-the-dots then can we expect more global failures? Munster Hurling is a good example where we had plenty of WOW moments in recent years, e.g. long range points by Cork's Patrick Horgan. Now pick the bones out of that on this Bank holiday Monday, and stay safe everyone.
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Post by veteran on Oct 26, 2020 13:57:29 GMT
Totally agree that the mark is an abomination . One could make a case for it if somebody soared high to catch a ball . It merely has resulted in a cheap free shot, confusion for the players and confusion for the referee. There are times when I wonder if the people who fiddle around with the rules have the best interests of the game in their hearts.
In the same vein, are we saddled with the water breaks for ever more, On reflection. I suppose we did need a couple of more stoppages in our game.
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Post by taibhse on Oct 26, 2020 14:44:22 GMT
“Munster Hurling is a good example where we had plenty of WOW moments in recent years, e.g. long range points by Christy Ring's grandson, one Patrick Horgan - now there's a bit of breeding for you, the apple didn't fall far.”
Are you sure that Ring was Patrick Horgan’s grandfather? I wasn’t aware of that and the brief checking I’ve done hasn’t changed my mind. I’m open to being wrong of course.
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Post by Ballyfireside on Oct 26, 2020 15:53:53 GMT
“Munster Hurling is a good example where we had plenty of WOW moments in recent years, e.g. long range points by Christy Ring's grandson, one Patrick Horgan - now there's a bit of breeding for you, the apple didn't fall far.” Are you sure that Ring was Patrick Horgan’s grandfather? I wasn’t aware of that and the brief checking I’ve done hasn’t changed my mind. I’m open to being wrong of course. Maybe you are on the ball there, I was going on what some commentator said - jazus can't even believe RTE these days, maybe fake news will die a death this week! Of course I couldn't err, I'm like Vet! And you wrong, never! We are only human, you're the ghost. Simon Kennefick is the grandson of Christopher's, wait 'till I catch that commentator, I'll show him what safe distancing is, and isn't.
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Post by Annascaultilidie on Oct 26, 2020 16:02:22 GMT
The advanced mark as suggested by Colm Parkinson was a mark for catches inside the 21 from kicks outside the 45.
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diego
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Posts: 1,099
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Post by diego on Oct 26, 2020 16:09:47 GMT
The advanced mark as suggested by Colm Parkinson was a mark for catches inside the 21 from kicks outside the 45. That's what I actually thought the rule was meant to be when it came in first. The sight of marks being given for diagonal kicks in to fellas just inside the 45 is bizarre and pointless.
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Post by Control3 on Oct 26, 2020 16:17:21 GMT
Totally agree that the mark is an abomination . One could make a case for it if somebody soared high to catch a ball . It merely has resulted in a cheap free shot, confusion for the players and confusion for the referee. There are times when I wonder if the people who fiddle around with the rules have the best interests of the game in their hearts. In the same vein, are we saddled with the water breaks for ever more, On reflection. I suppose we did need a couple of more stoppages in our game. Whatever about the mark the water breaks are an essential addition to our games to ensure the welfare and safety of our players during this era of covid. You can't have a maor uisce firing handling and firing in a rake of bottles. Like wise you cant have players traipsing over to the sideline. Hence the water break
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Post by onlykerry on Oct 26, 2020 16:45:47 GMT
I fully understand the need for a water break in the current COVID-19 scenario. My issue with it stems from its use as a pep talk and re-organisation break. Grab your water and go should be what happens, management should remain distant from the group until half time. Speeds up the break and minimises its influence on the game.
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Post by veteran on Oct 26, 2020 17:32:51 GMT
Totally agree that the mark is an abomination . One could make a case for it if somebody soared high to catch a ball . It merely has resulted in a cheap free shot, confusion for the players and confusion for the referee. There are times when I wonder if the people who fiddle around with the rules have the best interests of the game in their hearts. In the same vein, are we saddled with the water breaks for ever more, On reflection. I suppose we did need a couple of more stoppages in our game. Whatever about the mark the water breaks are an essential addition to our games to ensure the welfare and safety of our players during this era of covid. You can't have a maor uisce firing handling and firing in a rake of bottles. Like wise you cant have players traipsing over to the sideline. Hence the water break Why can’t you have “players traipsing over to the sideline”? Have a maoruisce on each sideline with his individualised bottles and it’s not as if a player does not get a break in play to have his drink. Sweet Lord, the game is littered with stoppages for frees , refereees taking a lifetime to take a name , injuries real and imaginary , myriad substitutions etc. There are so many intermissions a player could ramble over the sideline and have time to have his dinner if that was his wish. We need rules introduced to aid continuity not a time out to clean house which is what this so called water break is primarily being used for.. Now, if the maoruisce takes the law into his own hands and starts traipsing onto the playing pitch then card him back to the stand. In that situation he wouldn’t be thanked by players and management . After that demonstration of tough love by the referee he wouldn’t trespass again.
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Post by Mickmack on Oct 26, 2020 19:01:32 GMT
The Maor Uisce was brought in with good intentions but it was abused time and again. Many a big scrap was caused by a little scut in a Maor Uisce squirting water at the opposition or worse.
I would happily settle for a two minute water break if it means no more Maor Uisce 'officials'.
It must be so much easier now for refs.
I havent seen a scrap at a game since Covid arrived.
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dano
Senior Member
Posts: 530
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Post by dano on Oct 26, 2020 20:45:21 GMT
Totally agree MM. The waterbreaks are a good thing. So what if they're used as a time Out to reorganize/ discuss tactics etc. I see nothing wrong with that.
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diego
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Post by diego on Oct 26, 2020 20:57:24 GMT
Totally agree MM. The waterbreaks are a good thing. So what if they're used as a time Out to reorganize/ discuss tactics etc. I see nothing wrong with that. Wouldn't have an issue with them once it's a temporary thing for a year or 2. Do wonder about managers giving their players the hairdryer treatment during the middle of them though, like Brian Lohan during the 2nd half of the hurling yesterday.
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Post by southward on Oct 26, 2020 21:06:12 GMT
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Post by Mickmack on Oct 26, 2020 22:09:43 GMT
Liam Hassett tore the arsse out of it at times too
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Post by veteran on Oct 26, 2020 22:17:38 GMT
Totally agree MM. The waterbreaks are a good thing. So what if they're used as a time Out to reorganize/ discuss tactics etc. I see nothing wrong with that. Why is a water break a good thing? You haven’t given us the reasons why? As you are at it , do you see any downside to them? It would appear from your post that perhaps what you favour is an interval to discuss tactics? Don’t we have that already, often lasting twenty , twenty five minutes.. I suspect that players often emerge from that discussion more muddled than before . This time out lark doesn’t seem to be employed in our other popular field games in this side of the world. Incidentally , prior to this virus there was never a hint of anybody looking for a time out or suggesting the game needed it. Leaving the water issue aside, has this time out improved our game in any way. Now you may say that it has changed the course of a game, breaking momentum etc. But it should be remembered that breaking momentum for spurious reasons favours only one team . Is that fair? Some might say that time out changed the course of the game entirely. Of course the most likely explanation is that the course of a particular game was changed because one team was superior to the other. The fact the change coincided with this quarter time break maybe just that, a coincidence.
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Post by Mickmack on Oct 26, 2020 22:37:08 GMT
I think Kerrys Maor Uisce might have squirted water at a Dublin player in last years final. Thats a good enough reason for having a water break.
Also, i think breaking momentum of a dominant team has led to much better contests. The way Kilmoyley gathered themselves and got a second wind in the hurling final led to a brilliant finish.
If i recall correctly, the minor football final between Brendans and EK was all the better for Brendans coming like men demented after the water break in the second half.
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Post by veteran on Oct 26, 2020 22:39:41 GMT
The Maor Uisce was brought in with good intentions but it was abused time and again. Many a big scrap was caused by a little scut in a Maor Uisce squirting water at the opposition or worse. I would happily settle for a two minute water break if it means no more Maor Uisce 'officials'. It must be so much easier now for refs. I havent seen a scrap at a game since Covid arrived. I am not sure what the last sentence means. Do you mean the virus has made us less pugilistic? Taking water on board makes us more civilised? The extra break makes us more neighbourly? The scraps maybe taking place but not at the games you have seen? If the latter, is it because your viewership maybe having a soothing affect on the players.? Taking the poor maor uisce out of the equation makes the situation less inflammatory ? If yes to the latter, remember he is still on the sideline ready to pounce? By any chance , is “the little scut” to whom you refer Peter Crowley? If yes, remember he tried to instigate the scrap from the sideline not from encroaching on the pitch. Now Mick, you will have to make your views clearer from this on as a simple statement has left many unanswered questions.
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Post by Mickmack on Oct 26, 2020 23:11:49 GMT
I would have thought my views were fairly clear at this stage.
I hope the waterbreak stays as it will mean the end of the Maor Uisce 'official' which to me was used and abused and made the refs life harder. The refs job is hard enough without the Maor Uisce stirring trouble.
We had some extreme examples such as the John Toal incident with Paul Galvin and Greg Kennedy preventing a certain KK goal last year to other less serious but clearly inflammatory incidents.
Dublin were using the MAOR Uisce as a sort of extra man to block off space when the opposition were taking kickouts
I have seen some cracking endings to games this year where momentum shifted at the waterbreak. Whats wrong with that? The water break is there for both sides to deal with?
Clearly if the waterbreak goes, the pestilence of the Maor Uisce will return.
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Post by veteran on Oct 26, 2020 23:34:34 GMT
I agree the maoruisce is a nuisance and should not be allowed on the pitch. I have spelt out how the problem should be dealt with in reply to a post from control. If the player needs water he can make his way over to the sideline and drink his fill during the never ending stoppages in the game. If by chance he gets thirsty during the odd bits of continuous play he can still make his way over but I guarantee you he will not dally.
It is clear from this discussion that people who are in favour of a water break are not really in favour of water break per se but rather they want time out to discuss tactics. Revise your tactics at half time. What is sauce for the goose is sauce for the gander.
Others want “the water break” as a momentum shifter. Why should a spurious reason. be brought into the game to change the course of a game? I suspect the management and players and supporters of the team on top have no interest in a momentum shifter. If the team being beaten want to alter the course the match they should improve their performance . That is the legitimate way of doing business.
Reduce unnecessary stoppages and get on with the game . Let the contest look after itself.
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dano
Senior Member
Posts: 530
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Post by dano on Oct 27, 2020 1:40:11 GMT
I have my doubts the water break will last after Covid. For now it is, in my opinion, necessary so players aren't sharing bottles etc. If it creates a loophole where the team and management can discuss tactics then so be it. Both teams are on the break and they both can take advantage of the loophole. No advantage either way except for the ones who tweak things the right way. Poor Micko used to be hoarse after games from roaring at fellows from the sideline. I wonder what he would think of the water break?
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Post by Mickmack on Oct 27, 2020 8:46:21 GMT
I have my doubts the water break will last after Covid. For now it is, in my opinion, necessary so players aren't sharing bottles etc. If it creates a loophole where the team and management can discuss tactics then so be it. Both teams are on the break and they both can take advantage of the loophole. No advantage either way except for the ones who tweak things the right way. Poor Micko used to be hoarse after games from roaring at fellows from the sideline. I wonder what he would think of the water break? You might be waiting for years to be "after covid". I would like a rule that only one substitution be allowed by each side after the water break in the second half. This would immediately stop a lot of stoppages for subs as mentors would make changes during the water break
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