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Post by Mickmack on Dec 6, 2020 23:20:10 GMT
So we're basically advocating surrender? You want the GAA to keep funding Dublin to the same level as they have since 2007. You dont want to split Dublin. Have you a solution? Maybe you are happy with the current situation continuing into the future where Dublin win 4 out of every 5 indefinitely? You didnt reply so i will just assume you are happy out with the status quo.
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Post by Annascaultilidie on Dec 6, 2020 23:38:28 GMT
You want the GAA to keep funding Dublin to the same level as they have since 2007. You dont want to split Dublin. Have you a solution? Maybe you are happy with the current situation continuing into the future where Dublin win 4 out of every 5 indefinitely? You didnt reply so i will just assume you are happy out with the status quo. I have outlined my position halfway down the first page of the John Connellan thread.
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Post by onlykerry on Dec 7, 2020 9:29:00 GMT
Pat Gilroy on the Sunday Game there, says Cork and Kerry should join up , I hope he's joking. That will be the natural reaction to the demands to split Dublin - And the only way to have a competitive championship if the professionalism that has become part of the game continues unabated. Just look at rugby to see the future if we allow the creeping professionalism to continue. The AIL was the main competition but could not sustain a profesional game so the 4 inter provincial sides were given a new purpose. If we are lucky we will end up with 8 super teams based on neighbouring counties amalgamating to create pro/semi pro sides that compete in the premier A competition. The Club competition will probably become supreme for a few years with that drifting into an amateur inter county competition. The intercounty championship began life as a club competition before becoming a club selection (with guest players from other clubs in the county) before eventually becoming a fully fledged inter county team just over 100 years ago. I really dont like where the GAA is headed - they have unleashed a money monster that will not go back in the box.
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Post by greengreengrass on Dec 7, 2020 10:26:24 GMT
One of the most telling stats for me is how much of a turnaround there has been on the Dublin team in the last five years. If you look at the Dublin team from the 2015 all Ireland final only 6 of those that started on that day could also be considered starters now. Compare that to the 1978 and 1986 Kerry teams where there are 10 of the same starters. This isn’t one bunch of Dublin players like the Kerry team of the 80s this a production line that is firing out new players each yeah
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Post by dc84 on Dec 7, 2020 10:53:48 GMT
Its a tricky one, i dont think dublin gaa should be split to be honest and if you do amalgamations also have to be on the table.
Did he really suggest kerry and cork should join Jesus wept ! In a way its hard to argue about the like of leitrim/sligo or carlow/wicklow if you want to split dublin then everything would be on the table.
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kerryexile
Fanatical Member
Whether you believe that you can, or that you can't, you are right anyway.
Posts: 1,115
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Post by kerryexile on Dec 7, 2020 15:29:37 GMT
Onlykerry I agree with you 100% in the use of the word professional.
The source of the problem that exists is not hard to find - Dublin have gone professional. And their financial sources are much more than what the GAA has given them. How many Dublin players have 9 to 5 jobs? Jack McCaffrey appears to have decided to focus on his career and where is he now? Certainly not a member of the Dublin squad?
For those of us old enough to remember it is like Ground Hog Day. The GAA is in exactly the same place that Rugby was in the early nineties. The authorities were aware that some members were trying to hide the financial support that made them, in reality professional teams. Of course it proved impossible to keep it hidden and as history unfolded itself the phrase emerged that rugby went "openly professional" in 1995.
The whole issue now poses for the GAA the biggest question since its foundation in 1884. It might be already too late. Professionalism does not have a reverse gear. Even if another county were to pull off an All-Ireland, Dublin are practically certain to win 7 or 8 of the next 10.
Like it or not we have reached the point where we have no idea what kind of competition we will have in 2025 because of steps that might be taken to give it the appearance of being meaningful.
The silence from headquarters is deafening. The earlier post about Sean Kelly shows that he is already diving for cover.
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pillar
Senior Member
Posts: 508
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Post by pillar on Dec 7, 2020 17:44:41 GMT
Onlykerry I agree with you 100% in the use of the word professional. The source of the problem that exists is not hard to find - Dublin have gone professional. And their financial sources are much more than what the GAA has given them. How many Dublin players have 9 to 5 jobs? Jack McCaffrey appears to have decided to focus on his career and where is he now? Certainly not a member of the Dublin squad? For those of us old enough to remember it is like Ground Hog Day. The GAA is in exactly the same place that Rugby was in the early nineties. The authorities were aware that some members were trying to hide the financial support that made them, in reality professional teams. Of course it proved impossible to keep it hidden and as history unfolded itself the phrase emerged that rugby went "openly professional" in 1995. The whole issue now poses for the GAA the biggest question since its foundation in 1884. It might be already too late. Professionalism does not have a reverse gear. Even if another county were to pull off an All-Ireland, Dublin are practically certain to win 7 or 8 of the next 10. Like it or not we have reached the point where we have no idea what kind of competition we will have in 2025 because of steps that might be taken to give it the appearance of being meaningful. The silence from headquarters is deafening. The earlier post about Sean Kelly shows that he is already diving for cover. But for Seamus Darby and Tadgh Murphy late 2 goals Kerry could have won 9 in a row in the 70s and 80s...in the 1997 to 2011 period we got to 10 finals winning 6..between 1995 and 2011 Dublin got to no final...were the hacks of that time asking Kerry to be split..tis time we all stopped wasting our breaths about Dublin and funding..Kilkenny got to 11 finals in 14 years in hurling...the double Ks was always a great bet in noughties ..the wheel will turn!!!
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Post by southward on Dec 7, 2020 21:02:32 GMT
Onlykerry I agree with you 100% in the use of the word professional. The source of the problem that exists is not hard to find - Dublin have gone professional. And their financial sources are much more than what the GAA has given them. How many Dublin players have 9 to 5 jobs? Jack McCaffrey appears to have decided to focus on his career and where is he now? Certainly not a member of the Dublin squad? For those of us old enough to remember it is like Ground Hog Day. The GAA is in exactly the same place that Rugby was in the early nineties. The authorities were aware that some members were trying to hide the financial support that made them, in reality professional teams. Of course it proved impossible to keep it hidden and as history unfolded itself the phrase emerged that rugby went "openly professional" in 1995. The whole issue now poses for the GAA the biggest question since its foundation in 1884. It might be already too late. Professionalism does not have a reverse gear. Even if another county were to pull off an All-Ireland, Dublin are practically certain to win 7 or 8 of the next 10. Like it or not we have reached the point where we have no idea what kind of competition we will have in 2025 because of steps that might be taken to give it the appearance of being meaningful. The silence from headquarters is deafening. The earlier post about Sean Kelly shows that he is already diving for cover. But for Seamus Darby and Tadgh Murphy late 2 goals Kerry could have won 9 in a row in the 70s and 80s...in the 1997 to 2011 period we got to 10 finals winning 6..between 1995 and 2011 Dublin got to no final... were the hacks of that time asking Kerry to be split..tis time we all stopped wasting our breaths about Dublin and funding..Kilkenny got to 11 finals in 14 years in hurling...the double Ks was always a great bet in noughties ..the wheel will turn!!! That's an argument Dubliners often make but it's not a valid comparison. Kerry don't pick from a quarter of the population. They didn't back then either. Kerry haven't played virtually every meaningful game at home forever. Kerry weren't just handed €20 million of GAA funding. Kerry's success was won on a level playing field. So was Kilkenny's. You can't say the same for Dublin, unfortunately. The population thing can't be helped but the rest of it can.
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dano
Senior Member
Posts: 529
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Post by dano on Dec 7, 2020 21:35:22 GMT
I agree with Pillar. If Kerry had won last years drawn AI and Mayo had been given the last free to win in 2017 Draw we wouldn' be having this discussion. Different era I understand for the golden years but if someone suggested splitting Kerry then we'd have been appalled. Amalgamating counties is daft too. The parochial and intercounty rivalry is what makes the GAA great. Perhaps a fairer distribution of funds is needed but splitting or joining county teams I disagree with.
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kerryexile
Fanatical Member
Whether you believe that you can, or that you can't, you are right anyway.
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Post by kerryexile on Dec 7, 2020 23:40:58 GMT
Surely any meaningful discussion must be based on the facts. Reality only supports one set of facts.
If the hypothetical is considered a valid basis for discussion then which hypotheticals do we take. There is an infinite number of them. For example some county might claim they could have beaten Mayo earlier in the season if a ball had gone into the net so Mayo should never have been in the position to be the victims of a hypothetical situation. Which of the two hypotheticals is the more valid?
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Post by Annascaultilidie on Dec 7, 2020 23:45:18 GMT
Surely any meaningful discussion must be based on the facts. Reality only supports one set of facts. If the hypothetical is considered a valid basis for discussion then which hypotheticals do we take. There is an infinite number of them. For example some county might claim they could have beaten Mayo earlier in the season if a ball had gone into the net so Mayo should never have been in the position to be the victims of a hypothetical situation. Which of the two hypotheticals is the more valid? It is a fact that Dublin have not dominated the finals in the years they have won the AI.
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Post by Mickmack on Dec 8, 2020 0:07:13 GMT
Surely any meaningful discussion must be based on the facts. Reality only supports one set of facts. If the hypothetical is considered a valid basis for discussion then which hypotheticals do we take. There is an infinite number of them. For example some county might claim they could have beaten Mayo earlier in the season if a ball had gone into the net so Mayo should never have been in the position to be the victims of a hypothetical situation. Which of the two hypotheticals is the more valid? It is a fact that Dublin have not dominated the finals in the years they have won the AI. so who are you up for in this final. I'll be rooting for the Dublin in order to hasten the split. Spose you will be rooting for Cillian O'Connor.🤔
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dano
Senior Member
Posts: 529
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Post by dano on Dec 8, 2020 5:10:39 GMT
For their sheer doggedness and never giving up the cause, despite numerous disappointments, I want Mayo to win this one. I am not a big fan of them but they deserve it. And they're good enough to pull it off.
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Post by Annascaultilidie on Dec 8, 2020 6:56:11 GMT
It is a fact that Dublin have not dominated the finals in the years they have won the AI. so who are you up for in this final. I'll be rooting for the Dublin in order to hasten the split. Spose you will be rooting for Cillian O'Connor.🤔 I think it is difficult now to argue as I did that Cillian O'Connor isn't anything but a great player. He's been scoring consistently and heavily now for a decade and he's been a great leader now for a while, has become a great goalscorer. It's very difficult to argue his record. I'll be shouting for Mayo but I don't think them winning will help or hinder any argument. It is not a normal year.
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Post by onlykerry on Dec 8, 2020 9:55:18 GMT
Surely any meaningful discussion must be based on the facts. Reality only supports one set of facts. If the hypothetical is considered a valid basis for discussion then which hypotheticals do we take. There is an infinite number of them. For example some county might claim they could have beaten Mayo earlier in the season if a ball had gone into the net so Mayo should never have been in the position to be the victims of a hypothetical situation. Which of the two hypotheticals is the more valid? It is a fact that Dublin have not dominated the finals in the years they have won the AI. Some interesting points being made - for me it is the accumulation of advantages that Dublin enjoys that makes their dominance troubling. Some like population are ones only a split (which I oppose) will counter. Others like funding and home advantage with no semblance of fairness can and should be addressed. The close games they have won have most certainly benefitted from home advantage - most comentators would accept home advantage is worth on average 3 points in a game. Yes Kerry had a great run of final appearances in the noughties but the difference was they were beaten on occassions and for a period of about 20 years only one team managed to retain the title - an indicator of a competitive era. In our golden era the point is we were beaten - two last minute goals beat our experienced team and manager in 82 & 83. Our team through that era was basically the same team and this cannot be said of Dublin. It is not a one off great Dublin team that has been winning recent All Irelands, rather its a professional Dublin machine/process/system that has been facilitated by GAA money using its natural advantages of popuulation and sugar coated with home venue.
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exiled
Senior Member
Posts: 307
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Post by exiled on Dec 8, 2020 12:01:16 GMT
Most posters here remind me of my friend from childhood who when he had a fight with my older brother and lost do to me and another brother joining in (blood comes first) went home and got our ball which all 4 had bought and cut his quarter out of it and returned us our three quarters. Sean Kelly broke the status quo and only by reversing it will parity be restored. The ball will have to be sewn back together.. Splitting Dublin and joining counties is ridiculous..
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Post by playitfair on Dec 8, 2020 12:17:02 GMT
The starting point has to be to take Dublin out of Croke Park for every home game and pretty much every game in the Championship. I would think Kerry would be in a much stronger position if every meaningful game was played in Killarney.
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Post by jackiel on Dec 8, 2020 17:47:49 GMT
Point of interest regarding coaching. Meath GAA have 16 GPO's & 4 GDA's. Only 2 of the GPO's are full time with 1 club only. GPO salary €28,500 of which €20,000 is paid by the club, Leinster Council pays the rest. Most clubs who share a coach take them for a limited number of hours per week. Dublin's GPO's are part funded by Sport Ireland and I'm told clubs only pay half the salary.
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Post by sullyschoice on Dec 8, 2020 21:56:10 GMT
Point of interest regarding coaching. Meath GAA have 16 GPO's & 4 GDA's. Only 2 of the GPO's are full time with 1 club only. GPO salary €28,500 of which €20,000 is paid by the club, Leinster Council pays the rest. Most clubs who share a coach take them for a limited number of hours per week. Dublin's GPO's are part funded by Sport Ireland and I'm told clubs only pay half the salary. Club pays half and I believe County Board pays other half
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Post by Mickmack on Dec 8, 2020 23:41:27 GMT
Colm Keys
December 08 2020 10:43 PM
David Coldrick is set to be confirmed to referee the All-Ireland football final between Dublin and Mayo on Saturday week, the fourth time he will take charge on the biggest day.
There had been some anticipation that one of the emerging referees who had not taken charge of a previous final would be appointed but Coldrick will bring a wealth of experience.
It will be the second successive year that a Meath man will take charge of an All-Ireland final and like his fellow countyman David Gough, who took charge of the drawn game between Dublin and Kerry last year with Conor Lane in for the replay, he lives and worksin the capital.
Coldrick has taken charge of a final involving Dublin before when they beat Kerry in the 2015 final.
His appointment means a lengthy 13-year gap since his first All-Ireland final in 2007 when Kerry defeated Cork. Since then he has been in the middle for Cork's 2010 win over Down.
Coldrick's fourth All-Ireland final puts him on a par with Pat McEnaney who also refereed four, both 1996 games between Meath and Mayo, the drawn 2000 final between Kerry and Galway and Kerry's 2004 win over Mayo.
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Post by Mickmack on Dec 8, 2020 23:45:05 GMT
Surely they could have gone for a guy from Castlerea living and settled in Mayo with a partner from Mayo. Just for a change.
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Post by dc84 on Dec 9, 2020 15:23:01 GMT
Gas all the meath refs isnt it ? There hasnt been a dublin or mayo ref in a while. Our own lad got bumped after fermanaghs goal against cluxton a couple years ago
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Post by onlykerry on Dec 9, 2020 15:38:28 GMT
Connaught V Leinster Final - ref should be Munster or Ulster - basic optics of fairness
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Post by Galway breeze on Feb 19, 2021 9:13:04 GMT
No all stars for Kerry😔
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Post by southward on Feb 19, 2021 13:32:21 GMT
Only had one nomination (Clifford). Which puts an end to any pretence of the season as a whole being taken into account (we did win the league after all).
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Post by skybluezone on Feb 19, 2021 14:45:55 GMT
Only had one nomination (Clifford). Which puts an end to any pretence of the season as a whole being taken into account (we did win the league after all). Yes, agree that the league is never taken into account unless one of the less fancied teams make a strong impact. In fact back in 2014, I remember being on here moaning about the fact that Dublin only got 2 all stars (I think). And they had won the league. One poster pointed out that Dublin's task was win 2 games that year, the AI semi final and the final. God that semi final was a painful experience.
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Post by southward on Feb 19, 2021 16:18:37 GMT
Only had one nomination (Clifford). Which puts an end to any pretence of the season as a whole being taken into account (we did win the league after all). Yes, agree that the league is never taken into account unless one of the less fancied teams make a strong impact. In fact back in 2014, I remember being on here moaning about the fact that Dublin only got 2 all stars (I think). And they had won the league. One poster pointed out that Dublin's task was win 2 games that year, the AI semi final and the final. God that semi final was a painful experience. Yeah, the league had always been ignored to a large extent and not just by the all-star selectors either. However, in the past 5 or 6 years, it has become much more competitive and relevant. And this year, of all years, when the vast majority of counties only got one game out of a rush-job championship, the league should have been a significant factor in the gongs. Just seems like a lazy effort by the selectors.
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