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Post by Mickmack on Jan 26, 2020 21:56:34 GMT
the ref was even handed. Thats as much as can be expected of refs given their workload.
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kerryexile
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Post by kerryexile on Jan 26, 2020 22:54:09 GMT
Observations on last night confirm Dubs street cred. Experts on killing time approaching end game . Experts at manufacturing soft frees . Experts at the sly/sneaky dig to the face on a falling opponent and in all other aspects of the game - cynical to the extreme . But at the end of the day they are winners . They use the rules to their own fashion. Refereeing decisions aside Kerry were in a clear position to at last lay the Dublin bogey but again were found wanting and probably lucky to eke out a draw in the end . We must take responsibility for that . As in both All Ireland finals last year last night was another example and exhibition of how the Dubs controlled the last 10 minutes of the game . They played at their pace and method . We have learned nothing . And a reality check - no C o C , or Cooper or McCaffery for Dubs . Would our missing players compare ? Finally is it a coincidence that after a recent O Byrne Cup match the Dubs were involved in a fracas after the game a la last night ? Lack of Gavin’s discipline or Farrell’s hard edge as referenced by Thomas O Shea’s recent article . All teams hoping to usurp the Dubs from the top table got a clear warning last night that they haven’t gone away. What do you mean by "bogey"? Last night was the 4th time we met them in approx 12 months. In 75 % of those meetings they failed to beat us.
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The16thMan
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Post by The16thMan on Jan 26, 2020 23:59:50 GMT
Observations on last night confirm Dubs street cred. Experts on killing time approaching end game . Experts at manufacturing soft frees . Experts at the sly/sneaky dig to the face on a falling opponent and in all other aspects of the game - cynical to the extreme . But at the end of the day they are winners . They use the rules to their own fashion. Refereeing decisions aside Kerry were in a clear position to at last lay the Dublin bogey but again were found wanting and probably lucky to eke out a draw in the end . We must take responsibility for that . As in both All Ireland finals last year last night was another example and exhibition of how the Dubs controlled the last 10 minutes of the game . They played at their pace and method . We have learned nothing . And a reality check - no C o C , or Cooper or McCaffery for Dubs . Would our missing players compare ? Finally is it a coincidence that after a recent O Byrne Cup match the Dubs were involved in a fracas after the game a la last night ? Lack of Gavin’s discipline or Farrell’s hard edge as referenced by Thomas O Shea’s recent article . All teams hoping to usurp the Dubs from the top table got a clear warning last night that they haven’t gone away. What do you mean by "bogey"? Last night was the 4th time we met them in approx 12 months. In 75 % of those meetings they failed to beat us. From my count there's an even record between us since 2017. 2 wins each (Kerry 2017 League final & 2019 league. Dublin 2018 league and 2019 AI Final Replay) 3 draws (2017 League,2019 AI Final,2020 League) So clearly not much between the teams when they meet and considering Dublin beat us in the league final in 2016 by 12 points or so the gap is definitely closing between the two teams. Not long before we break the 11 year wait we currently have since a championship win over them I feel but still need to add that extra 10% before we get over the line.
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MeathExile
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Post by MeathExile on Jan 27, 2020 0:21:31 GMT
Veteran - you mentioned earlier that we seemed to struggle in the last 15 minutes with our kick-outs, while Dublin were having no problems. The reason for this was because we were playing Paul as a sweeper even for their kickouts - so they always had a free man to pick out. For our kickouts, Dublin did not have a sweeper back and pushed right up - making it harder for Shane.
We need to push up on their kickouts to apply the pressure - playing sweeper does not suit our game - same in the replay last year - handing advantage to the opposition, playing with fear.
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Post by homerj on Jan 27, 2020 8:33:12 GMT
Great kerry crowd there alright in lower cusack, at least three full blocks from plus a block or two in hogan also, I assume the na Gaeil crowd.
Good draw anyway and a good start.
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Post by homerj on Jan 27, 2020 8:34:02 GMT
Observations on last night confirm Dubs street cred. Experts on killing time approaching end game . Experts at manufacturing soft frees . Experts at the sly/sneaky dig to the face on a falling opponent and in all other aspects of the game - cynical to the extreme . But at the end of the day they are winners . They use the rules to their own fashion. Refereeing decisions aside Kerry were in a clear position to at last lay the Dublin bogey but again were found wanting and probably lucky to eke out a draw in the end . We must take responsibility for that . As in both All Ireland finals last year last night was another example and exhibition of how the Dubs controlled the last 10 minutes of the game . They played at their pace and method . We have learned nothing . And a reality check - no C o C , or Cooper or McCaffery for Dubs . Would our missing players compare ? Finally is it a coincidence that after a recent O Byrne Cup match the Dubs were involved in a fracas after the game a la last night ? Lack of Gavin’s discipline or Farrell’s hard edge as referenced by Thomas O Shea’s recent article . All teams hoping to usurp the Dubs from the top table got a clear warning last night that they haven’t gone away. What do you mean by "bogey"? Last night was the 4th time we met them in approx 12 months. In 75 % of those meetings they failed to beat us. I'm open to correction here but Dublin have only beaten us twice in last 7 meetings.
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tonydorigo
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Post by tonydorigo on Jan 27, 2020 9:15:49 GMT
Positives: James O'Donoghue looked sharp and strong in the tackle. Would be great to have him in form. Rookie midfield tightened up after first half. Defence was okayish for periods but I found Enright and Foley to be too standoffish. Clifford looked regal. Graham O'Sullivan looked the part again despite the harsh black.
Negatives: Use of Tommy Walsh. Seemed to fall between two stools. Not direct ball into him and not used in midfield enough. Paul Geaney at centre forward. Think SOS was a huge loss on the 40. Thought Geaney was poor and James O might have been better out there. Kick outs when under pressure. New options in the backline or midfield. Thought that Gavin O'Brien played in spurts which seems to be his forte at this level. Needs to be seen more to be considered for selection.
Good run out with Crowley, Moran, Barry, DOC, White and others to come back in. Hopefully we see more of Burns, Shaw and others in the coming games.
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Post by homerj on Jan 27, 2020 10:47:49 GMT
my 3 season tickets showing up as not used on saturday night but all 3 were used.
this happen to anybody else?
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Post by backothehill on Jan 27, 2020 11:20:29 GMT
my 3 season tickets showing up as not used on saturday night but all 3 were used. this happen to anybody else? Yes, same as that, I downloaded our two tickets for game last Saturday as required and we attended. Maybe they are not showing because we didn’t use our actual season tickets. Mine haven’t even arrived in the post yet. I’ve emailed them because I presume they will be needed for the Galway game next Saturday evening.
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Post by homerj on Jan 27, 2020 11:37:56 GMT
one thing thats noticeable is Dublin do not waste possession - they do not lump aimless balls up into the air like weve done for years and what we did in reply back in september especially in first 15 mins which cost us a huge amount of possession. they also do not take shots from impossible angles - how many dublin scores do you look at and say "wow, that was an unbelievable score from there"
has the time come for us to completely abandon the long ball tactic altogether and look to play into space or hold possession until we find space?
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tonydorigo
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Post by tonydorigo on Jan 27, 2020 15:04:46 GMT
one thing thats noticeable is Dublin do not waste possession - they do not lump aimless balls up into the air like weve done for years and what we did in reply back in september especially in first 15 mins which cost us a huge amount of possession. they also do not take shots from impossible angles - how many dublin scores do you look at and say "wow, that was an unbelievable score from there" has the time come for us to completely abandon the long ball tactic altogether and look to play into space or hold possession until we find space? This is my main issue with the use of Tommy Walsh. He was used nearly as a decoy last year but we seem intent on having an option to play high aimless ball into someone in the full forward line. The ball delivered is not even to his advantage but more in line with the way that a club team would employ rather than the way a team like Armagh in the early 00's used someone like Ronan Clarke with diagonal ball that was to the advantage of a large inside forward moving away from the defender rather than having the ball rain down on them while standing stationary. When we worked the ball through the lines and quickly into the inside line we looked much better. Just as we did after the first 10 mins of the all ireland replay last year.
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Post by greengreengrass on Jan 27, 2020 18:01:38 GMT
Despite the introduction of the mark, the kick pass bouncing just in front of the attacker remains the most effective pass in gaelic football. With regards to tommy walshe I believe the best way to use him would be to put this type of ball in front of him with wing forwards running off him or corner forwards looping around. Theres no defender in the country that will get around tommy to knock this type of ball away if he gets out in front
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Post by buck02 on Jan 27, 2020 18:39:22 GMT
Despite the introduction of the mark, the kick pass bouncing just in front of the attacker remains the most effective pass in gaelic football. With regards to tommy walshe I believe the best way to use him would be to put this type of ball in front of him with wing forwards running off him or corner forwards looping around. Theres no defender in the country that will get around tommy to knock this type of ball away if he gets out in frontI don't know. Dublin's goal came from such a ball into Tommy that Philly managed to put him off enough for it to bounce past him and out over the line.
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Post by southward on Jan 27, 2020 18:40:25 GMT
one thing thats noticeable is Dublin do not waste possession - they do not lump aimless balls up into the air like weve done for years and what we did in reply back in september especially in first 15 mins which cost us a huge amount of possession. they also do not take shots from impossible angles - how many dublin scores do you look at and say "wow, that was an unbelievable score from there" has the time come for us to completely abandon the long ball tactic altogether and look to play into space or hold possession until we find space? Sometimes you need to be careful what you wish for though. In my opinion, Dublin have taken the possession-holding mantra too far and have gone from being the exciting attacking outfit of a few years ago to one which, frankly, can be unwatchable at times nowadays. Witness the AI replay last September - Dublin had one particular possession that lasted about 3 minutes at mostly walking pace; eventually even their own supporters were starting to boo. It's effective, sure, but so were Jim McGuinness' strategies and who remembers them fondly? We all want to win but we also want to see good football and fear tactics won't bring people through the turnstiles. I get the point you're making but there has to be a balance.
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Post by greengreengrass on Jan 27, 2020 19:46:50 GMT
one thing thats noticeable is Dublin do not waste possession - they do not lump aimless balls up into the air like weve done for years and what we did in reply back in september especially in first 15 mins which cost us a huge amount of possession. they also do not take shots from impossible angles - how many dublin scores do you look at and say "wow, that was an unbelievable score from there" has the time come for us to completely abandon the long ball tactic altogether and look to play into space or hold possession until we find space? Sometimes you need to be careful what you wish for though. In my opinion, Dublin have taken the possession-holding mantra too far and have gone from being the exciting attacking outfit of a few years ago to one which, frankly, can be unwatchable at times nowadays. Witness the AI replay last September - Dublin had one particular possession that lasted about 3 minutes at mostly walking pace; eventually even their own supporters were starting to boo. It's effective, sure, but so were Jim McGuinness' strategies and who remembers them fondly? We all want to win but we also want to see good football and fear tactics won't bring people through the turnstiles. I get the point you're making but there has to be a balance. Difficult to watch or not, you can't underestimate its effectiveness on the morale and energy levels of the opposition when you simply can't get your hands on the ball, especially when trailing. They will also often do it if they sense the opposition is hitting a purple patch, thus killing any momentum that was building
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Post by Mickmack on Jan 27, 2020 20:07:49 GMT
Jim Gavin is in the IAA where the only three things that matter are safety, safety and safety. Its no surprise that Dublin evolved into a risk averse side. Boring maybe but very effective.
Central to the culture too is putting your hand up and admitting a mistake and taking responsibility for your actions. This resulted in a remarkable set up where egos were not tolerated and the team was all that mattered. Its no wonder Dermo found it hard going.
I will be watching with interest to see how these aspects play out now that Gavin is gone.
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Post by veteran on Jan 27, 2020 20:31:09 GMT
Looking at David coming off the field the last day and at photographs in the papers with his jersey in shreds , it is imperative the the Kerry Gaa museum in Killarney get possession of that shirt. Hugely significant from two standpoints - his first day as captain and the torn jersey as a symbol of the unhealthy attention he gets on the playing fields.
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exiled
Senior Member
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Post by exiled on Jan 27, 2020 21:16:00 GMT
Why didn't we push up on Dublin knockouts when they were down to 14.. We didn't even push up on them when they were playing keep ball during this time.
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Post by mitchelsontour on Jan 27, 2020 21:48:54 GMT
Despite the introduction of the mark, the kick pass bouncing just in front of the attacker remains the most effective pass in gaelic football. With regards to tommy walshe I believe the best way to use him would be to put this type of ball in front of him with wing forwards running off him or corner forwards looping around. Theres no defender in the country that will get around tommy to knock this type of ball away if he gets out in frontI don't know. Dublin's goal came from such a ball into Tommy that Philly managed to put him off enough for it to bounce past him and out over the line. I would say that Philly fouled Tommy and we should have had a free. After watching the final minutes of the club final and then the final minutes on Saturday I am convinced the only way to eliminate the cynical play at the end of games or at anytime is to enforce a 21 yard free for any black card offence on the field of play. Question how did Kilkenny not get a black card for the pull down on Burns? How has a player of the caliber of Fenton avoided the notice of the AFL?
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fitz
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Post by fitz on Jan 27, 2020 21:59:06 GMT
Why didn't we push up on Dublin knockouts when they were down to 14.. We didn't even push up on them when they were playing keep ball during this time. Great point. We’re slow to adapt. Having the sweeper in my view does not offset giving Dublin goalie a pressure free 70 mins of kick outs. Dublin build significant momentum in their running game starting from their full back line. Our full forward line is poor defensively especially compared to the ravenous tackling of Con and Mannion. We need improvement here but Tommy and David are not fast enough to match the Dublin runners dummies, Mannion and Con are fast enough. Why do we keep feeding our enemy a weakness
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Post by kerrygold on Jan 27, 2020 22:15:35 GMT
I don't know. Dublin's goal came from such a ball into Tommy that Philly managed to put him off enough for it to bounce past him and out over the line. I would say that Philly fouled Tommy and we should have had a free. After watching the final minutes of the club final and then the final minutes on Saturday I am convinced the only way to eliminate the cynical play at the end of games or at anytime is to enforce a 21 yard free for any black card offence on the field of play. Question how did Kilkenny not get a black card for the pull down on Burns? How has a player of the caliber of Fenton avoided the notice of the AFL? I don't see why Brian Fenton would give up his Dublin platform to play that AFL muck......................
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Post by damarys on Jan 27, 2020 23:47:52 GMT
Hi Everyone,I really enjoy the forum.Just wondering if anyone could sent a link of the kerry/dublin game on Sat??.My young lad forgot to record the game for me and I also would like to share the link with my son in Brazil.Thank you in advance.I would like to comment on the game...we are as good as the dubs but its a few things are letting us down,first we don,t work the ref.Every decision, the dubs challenge the ref.For the soft peno nobody went to the ref challenging his decision.....for the black card on O Sullivan nobody challenged the ref again.This makes his decision easy and more importantly the NEXT one as well.Was Jack MC pull of Steven O Briens arm in the square in the all Ireland final way more clearcut than saturday night?We make it easy on the ref whereas the dubs do not.O sullivan on receiving his black card left like a lamb,even though it was a harsh call.Teams are getting rode when playing against the dubs.If I remember right Paul Murphy got fouled when we were a point up very late in the drawn final as was J lyne...nothing given....
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Post by colinsworth1 on Jan 27, 2020 23:50:20 GMT
Looking at David coming off the field the last day and at photographs in the papers with his jersey in shreds , it is imperative the the Kerry Gaa museum in Killarney get possession of that shirt. Hugely significant from two standpoints - his first day as captain and the torn jersey as a symbol of the unhealthy attention he gets on the playing fields. Veteran I would put that disgraceful picture on the dressing room door for the rest of the season . Is the county board going to stand idly by while one of our young players gets assaulted in broad day light after the final whistle Does the referee or the CCC have jurisdiction over what happens on the field of play after the final whistle ?or is this the new accepted norm? I now see where Eugene McGee (RIP} had the right intention with the black card Clearly not working in its present form neither is the sin bin .Time to give a 21 yard free kick for the late manic cynical fouling otherwise it’s going to continue unabated . Let get our game back ..
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Post by greengold35 on Jan 28, 2020 9:38:43 GMT
We all give out about referees & their job is certainly not easy but the brief highlights on Sunday night of the Donegal/Mayo & Galway/Monaghan only serve to highlight the inconsistencies across the board.
1. Conor McManus looked to be tripped as he went to pick up the ball en route to goal - Maurice Deegan waved on the play - had Seán Hurson been refereeing it, probably a black card for the Galway defender & a Monaghan tap over point.
2. James Durcan was pulled & dragged by a defender as he made his way goalwards - he was allowed to play on and smashed the ball home - hard to imagine that being allowed with a different ref.
The inconsistent application of rules by the elite refs are ruining the game and needs to be addressed - I know they ( refs) are burdened with all sorts of rules, timekeeping etc but if they are deemed to be the best in the business consistency should be a given.
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Fado
Senior Member
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Post by Fado on Jan 28, 2020 10:00:49 GMT
The increased workload will weigh very heavily on the referees and things will get rapidly worse not better. The time for a second official is now.
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Post by southward on Jan 28, 2020 18:18:47 GMT
We all give out about referees & their job is certainly not easy but the brief highlights on Sunday night of the Donegal/Mayo & Galway/Monaghan only serve to highlight the inconsistencies across the board. 1. Conor McManus looked to be tripped as he went to pick up the ball en route to goal - Maurice Deegan waved on the play - had Seán Hurson been refereeing it, probably a black card for the Galway defender & a Monaghan tap over point.
2. James Durcan was pulled & dragged by a defender as he made his way goalwards - he was allowed to play on and smashed the ball home - hard to imagine that being allowed with a different ref. The inconsistent application of rules by the elite refs are ruining the game and needs to be addressed - I know they ( refs) are burdened with all sorts of rules, timekeeping etc but if they are deemed to be the best in the business consistency should be a given. I thought myself that Conor dived without any contact but I only saw it one time so open to correction.
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Post by sullyschoice on Jan 28, 2020 22:04:22 GMT
Looking at David coming off the field the last day and at photographs in the papers with his jersey in shreds , it is imperative the the Kerry Gaa museum in Killarney get possession of that shirt. Hugely significant from two standpoints - his first day as captain and the torn jersey as a symbol of the unhealthy attention he gets on the playing fields. Veteran I would put that disgraceful picture on the dressing room door for the rest of the season . Is the county board going to stand idly by while one of our young players gets assaulted in broad day light after the final whistle Does the referee or the CCC have jurisdiction over what happens on the field of play after the final whistle ?or is this the new accepted norm? I now see where Eugene McGee (RIP} had the right intention with the black card Clearly not working in its present form neither is the sin bin .Time to give a 21 yard free kick for the late manic cynical fouling otherwise it’s going to continue unabated . Let get our game back .. Howard was the main one testing the strength of the material. He was literally ripping at the neck of it. He displayed a rather cynical side during the game too.
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Post by mitchelsontour on Jan 28, 2020 22:55:44 GMT
I would say that Philly fouled Tommy and we should have had a free. After watching the final minutes of the club final and then the final minutes on Saturday I am convinced the only way to eliminate the cynical play at the end of games or at anytime is to enforce a 21 yard free for any black card offence on the field of play. Question how did Kilkenny not get a black card for the pull down on Burns? How has a player of the caliber of Fenton avoided the notice of the AFL? I don't see why Brian Fenton would give up his Dublin platform to play that AFL muck...................... Not asking him to give up playing with Dublin just wondering how a player of his quality has never been linked with the AFL
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Post by piggott on Jan 29, 2020 0:02:32 GMT
Kilkenny went out there for a while. Kerry and Dublin players have something to aim for. Anybody from other counties would jump at the chance. Worrying how many players withdrawing from County panels. GAA will have to put big effort into marketing Tier 2,would nearly say they should allow other 24 who don't qualify for Super 8 into it on a graduated basis.
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Post by colinsworth1 on Jan 29, 2020 14:00:30 GMT
Veteran I would put that disgraceful picture on the dressing room door for the rest of the season . Is the county board going to stand idly by while one of our young players gets assaulted in broad day light after the final whistle Does the referee or the CCC have jurisdiction over what happens on the field of play after the final whistle ?or is this the new accepted norm? I now see where Eugene McGee (RIP} had the right intention with the black card Clearly not working in its present form neither is the sin bin .Time to give a 21 yard free kick for the late manic cynical fouling otherwise it’s going to continue unabated . Let get our game back .. Howard was the main one testing the strength of the material. He was literally ripping at the neck of it. He displayed a rather cynical side during the game too. If Howard is at this caper then you know there’s a new Harder edge instruction throughput the team Not necessarily lack of discipline but a deliberate ramp up of all forms of physical domination and so far it’s working for them But it’s on the very edge and referees need to tidy this up for the good of the game . The manic desperation tackles appear every time there’s a close finish The gamble on the wrecklessness is paying off very few late cards and an occasional black with a minute to go is inadequate deterrent for the ugliness of the strategy
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