hugh20
Senior Member
Posts: 734
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Post by hugh20 on Sept 25, 2017 16:36:57 GMT
Hugh your argument against having the young water boys is an odd one- essentially you are saying that they shouldn't be there so as to protect them from the abusive and aggressive behaviour of the crokes (adult) management and support. I'd imagine in that scenario that the issue is not the young water boys Of course the issue is not the young water boys. My argument is that they should be protected by not being there in the first place. I'm not saying they need protection from the Crokes management, I am saying they need protection from many management teams because I have seen how heated it can get between management teams. The County Championship is fiercely competitive and the side lines can be very aggressive and intimidating. I just don't think it's a place for young kids to be seeing the behaviour of so called adults who they invariably look up to and are going to follow suit.
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Post by derry4sam on Sept 25, 2017 16:45:07 GMT
Anyone have the West Kerry lineup from Saturday handy?
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Post by onlykerry on Sept 25, 2017 16:47:13 GMT
The problem with accepting adults improper behaviour and removing the young lads from their water duties is that you defacto accept the bad behaviour. This can then lead to further problems ....
I think all water carriers should be young lads - get them involved in the game and stops the water carriers being used as coaches during the game. Water should be available to players at the sideline only.
As previously stated referees (and officials) need to be far stronger with ignorant behaviour - failing to deal with it only encourages it.
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Post by kerrybhoy06 on Sept 25, 2017 16:52:10 GMT
Hugh your argument against having the young water boys is an odd one- essentially you are saying that they shouldn't be there so as to protect them from the abusive and aggressive behaviour of the crokes (adult) management and support. I'd imagine in that scenario that the issue is not the young water boys Of course the issue is not the young water boys. My argument is that they should be protected by not being there in the first place. I'm not saying they need protection from the Crokes management, I am saying they need protection from many management teams because I have seen how heated it can get between management teams. The County Championship is fiercely competitive and the side lines can be very aggressive and intimidating. I just don't think it's a place for young kids to be seeing the behaviour of so called adults who they invariably look up to and are going to follow suit. I'd rather we didn't normalise the trampish behaviour
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hugh20
Senior Member
Posts: 734
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Post by hugh20 on Sept 25, 2017 17:43:46 GMT
Unfortunately that is the way the Gaa is lads and I can't see it changing any time soon. You see it at inter county level also and it is sparked by passion, look at Cody, Davey Fitz etc. Passion fuels rivalry and hatred between clubs and at senior level it can be vicious. It's unfortunate but it's what happens. I'm not normalising the behaviour but I'm not naive enough to think it will change anytime soon and it certainly won't change anytime soon if kids are on the line picking up the very trampish behaviour we are on about.
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hugh20
Senior Member
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Post by hugh20 on Sept 25, 2017 17:56:25 GMT
West Kerry lined out as follows:
Tomas Sayers Alan Fitz (Castlegregory) Cathal Long Cian o murchu Pj Hand Paidi o Se Rob o Se Brian Begley Jason Hickson (Annascaul) Colm muircheartaigh Dara o Se Tomas o Se Sean mici o connor Eanna o Connor Declan O Sullivan (Lispole)
12 starters from Ghaeltacht. Colm Muircheartaigh went back and Alan Fitz moved out.
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Post by kerrybhoy06 on Sept 25, 2017 19:45:28 GMT
Unfortunately that is the way the Gaa is lads and I can't see it changing any time soon. You see it at inter county level also and it is sparked by passion, look at Cody, Davey Fitz etc. Passion fuels rivalry and hatred between clubs and at senior level it can be vicious. It's unfortunate but it's what happens. I'm not normalising the behaviour but I'm not naive enough to think it will change anytime soon and it certainly won't change anytime soon if kids are on the line picking up the very trampish behaviour we are on about. I wouldnt consider myself to be naive either. I would rather ban grown men who act like idiots then a bunch of teenagers bringing water on to the pitch and to be honest I think you know how ridiculous your original point sounded and are now trying to make it out that your insistence on those lads being removed from being waterboys was in some way a benevolent act. If, as even you have suggested, there is a thuggish element to the Crokes support (and management) then the club should move to eradicate this not look to point fingers elsewhere.
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Post by millbank on Sept 25, 2017 22:04:38 GMT
Rathmore performance very disappointing. At this level their defence is not senior standard, and they need to set up with more bodies back as protection. Am mystified why Aidan O Mahony not moved to midfield for spell, and a clearly carrying an injury Paul Murphy should have been moved back facing ball with Eoin Lawlor on 40.
John Moynihan hugh loss, and somebody needs to take a serious look at S&C , and Rehab side, as too many carrying injuries and knocks long term.
Still with Mark Reen to come back in, plus Brian Friel all is not lost. The panel need a long off season, and proper rehab and replenish for next season .
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Post by yellowbelly on Sept 25, 2017 22:44:05 GMT
I think it's time the GAA looked at having neutral water boys and ball boys like they have in soccer. I counted 7 Kenmare Maor Uisce's on the field on Sunday, all looked U16. In the Club Final they had a youngster who looked hardly 10 standing behind the goals feeding the ball to the keeper. In the final play of the game he ran out into the penalty box to retrieve a football as the keeper was taking the kickout. Kenmare have been on the receiving end of youngsters on the sideline too. In the Club Semi Final vs Legion two players contested a ball near the sideline and both fell on the ground. A Legion youngster kicked the ball into Kenmare players face, who immediately reacted and pushed him roughly into the fence. Result, straight red card for the Kenmare Player. The usual attitude "'sure they're just youngsters" doesn't cut it when they can effect the onfield play. Checking some other counties rules for Championships, most are like this Football Two Water Carriers are permitted per Team and must not be under 18 years of age. One Water Carrier to be stationed at each side of the field of play, but not behind the end lines. These two Water Carriers are permitted to enter the field of play, only during a break in play. Water Carriers must wear a distinctive bib, supplied by the County Committee, with the words “MAOR UISCE” in clear large letters and also numbered 1 and 2 www.gaacork.ie/contentPage/61479/match_regulationsCan't find any such regulations listed on the Kerry website, so guess it's a free for all
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hugh20
Senior Member
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Post by hugh20 on Sept 26, 2017 6:30:59 GMT
Unfortunately that is the way the Gaa is lads and I can't see it changing any time soon. You see it at inter county level also and it is sparked by passion, look at Cody, Davey Fitz etc. Passion fuels rivalry and hatred between clubs and at senior level it can be vicious. It's unfortunate but it's what happens. I'm not normalising the behaviour but I'm not naive enough to think it will change anytime soon and it certainly won't change anytime soon if kids are on the line picking up the very trampish behaviour we are on about. I wouldnt consider myself to be naive either. I would rather ban grown men who act like idiots then a bunch of teenagers bringing water on to the pitch and to be honest I think you know how ridiculous your original point sounded and are now trying to make it out that your insistence on those lads being removed from being waterboys was in some way a benevolent act. If, as even you have suggested, there is a thuggish element to the Crokes support (and management) then the club should move to eradicate this not look to point fingers elsewhere. I believe it is dangerous for underage kids on the side line of senior county championship games. Teams are training for 9 or 10 months in preparation and this is the holy grail for teams so everything is put on the line and exchanges are often very heated. It's not a place for kids to be witnessing people f***ing each other out of it and pushing each other etc. as they become accustomed to it and think it is the norm. I never said there was a thuggish element to Crokes management? I said that I have seen first hand evidence of many management teams on the line and it can get very heated. I never said there was a thuggish element to Crokes management but I have seen how vocal they can be. There is a difference you know. My whole point if you would listen is that Crokes are being branded as the only management team that are doing this. I have no problem people identifying this if it is warranted but failing to highlight other management teams at it is unfair. Nothing said of Declan O Sullivan doing it on Sunday for South Kerry or Quirke for Rahillys when David Clifford retaliated? Lying by omission. I'm finished with this argument anyway as it is going nowhere and many people seem to have an agenda with Crokes without calling out other mentors.
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Post by kerrybhoy06 on Sept 26, 2017 7:46:28 GMT
I wouldnt consider myself to be naive either. I would rather ban grown men who act like idiots then a bunch of teenagers bringing water on to the pitch and to be honest I think you know how ridiculous your original point sounded and are now trying to make it out that your insistence on those lads being removed from being waterboys was in some way a benevolent act. If, as even you have suggested, there is a thuggish element to the Crokes support (and management) then the club should move to eradicate this not look to point fingers elsewhere. I believe it is dangerous for underage kids on the side line of senior county championship games. Teams are training for 9 or 10 months in preparation and this is the holy grail for teams so everything is put on the line and exchanges are often very heated. It's not a place for kids to be witnessing people f***ing each other out of it and pushing each other etc. as they become accustomed to it and think it is the norm. I never said there was a thuggish element to Crokes management? I said that I have seen first hand evidence of many management teams on the line and it can get very heated. I never said there was a thuggish element to Crokes management but I have seen how vocal they can be. There is a difference you know. My whole point if you would listen is that Crokes are being branded as the only management team that are doing this. I have no problem people identifying this if it is warranted but failing to highlight other management teams at it is unfair. Nothing said of Declan O Sullivan doing it on Sunday for South Kerry or Quirke for Rahillys when David Clifford retaliated? Lying by omission. I'm finished with this argument anyway as it is going nowhere and many people seem to have an agenda with Crokes without calling out other mentors. You cant just finish with an argument in some childish way bwecause you know that you havent got a leg to stand on- you mentioned that the kids need to be protected from the antics of some "adults"- thats exactly how you put it and to then reference the Kenmare kids implies that the Crokes management were these "adults". You're selfless efforts to save the kids of Kerry is nice to see but maybe concentrate more maturing the adults as they seem to be the issue- or maybe just get Crokes to play their matches behind closed doors if their management and fans cant behave themselves. I have absolutely nothing against Crokes at all- I'm just using your own examples to form an argument against you. You have mentioned the behaviour of managment and fans at the match and how the kids needed to be protected from this. Also I'm not sure that you understand what the term "lying by omission" means.
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Post by kerrybhoy06 on Sept 29, 2017 20:19:38 GMT
Both semi finals to be broadcast on eir sports next weekend- good exposure. Let’s hope the players handle the occasion
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Post by clubman on Oct 1, 2017 22:01:31 GMT
Great exposure, wonder will it affect attendance? It's a nice option for supporters up the country or that simply can't travel to the game
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Post by kerrybhoy06 on Oct 2, 2017 5:26:01 GMT
Can’t see it impacting on attendance as not many people have eir sports
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Post by clarinman on Oct 2, 2017 8:21:27 GMT
Can’t see it impacting on attendance as not many people have eir sports Anyone with eir broadband has free access to eir sports. That's a fair percentage of the population.
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Post by ciarrailar on Oct 2, 2017 20:23:00 GMT
The antics of the Dr.Crokes line today was inexcusable,Constantly barking at the ref with O'Shea running into the field on numerous occasions screaming "Padraig,Padraig, Do this do that ?!?!?" at half time he gave clear instructions to one of his selectors to stay behind and lambaste the ref as he made way to his dressing room. Their water carriers were constantly in the ear of the linesmen and intimidated the juvenile waterboys Kenmare had. This is a Crokes side we were all so proud of on St.Patrick's Day but i don't know why they lower themselves to this thuggish behaviour. A number of weeks back, I witnessed their minors in action against Kenmare district and I was pilloried here by one or two for pointing out the disgraceful behavior by the Crokes sideline and players. The club seems to have a serious discipline problem. That night, the referee and linesman were berated from early on by the sideline and vocal supporters (many of which were female), for simply doing their job. The decisions they made on the night to me looked right for the most part. Crokes players were sent off for misbehaving on the pitch but their mentors and subs felt that they should be able to do what they like on the pitch. That night it was complete thuggery with the linesman being threatened and two players actually squaring up to him after the final whistle.... county board needs to act on this type of behavior or we’ll have no officials!
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Post by ciarrailar on Oct 2, 2017 20:46:15 GMT
Unfortunately that is the way the Gaa is lads and I can't see it changing any time soon. You see it at inter county level also and it is sparked by passion, look at Cody, Davey Fitz etc. Passion fuels rivalry and hatred between clubs and at senior level it can be vicious. It's unfortunate but it's what happens. I'm not normalising the behaviour but I'm not naive enough to think it will change anytime soon and it certainly won't change anytime soon if kids are on the line picking up the very trampish behaviour we are on about. I wouldnt consider myself to be naive either. I would rather ban grown men who act like idiots then a bunch of teenagers bringing water on to the pitch and to be honest I think you know how ridiculous your original point sounded and are now trying to make it out that your insistence on those lads being removed from being waterboys was in some way a benevolent act. If, as even you have suggested, there is a thuggish element to the Crokes support (and management) then the club should move to eradicate this not look to point fingers elsewhere. I fully agree. Crokes are getting a bad name county wide for this abusive behavior. Surely, as a club they need to be looking to right this? How can the biggest club in the county be seen as a breeding ground for thugs and louts? It’s an embarrassing situation and one that I certainly wouldn’t want my own club to be associated with. Whatever happened to going out to enjoy the game, play hard but play fair and may the best team win? That day seems to be gone. The best team doesn’t always win now. It’s the team that can get away with things most that wins and Crokes have truly embraced this. The sideline are like no other with the numbers they have there. At last years county final they must have had 20 lads on the sideline.... I thought there were limits to the number of team officials allowed?? This is all about strength in numbers and intimidation.... the sooner this is stopped and referees stand up to them the better.
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Post by onlykerry on Oct 3, 2017 9:24:03 GMT
It can get hot on the sideline at any close game - irrespective of the teams playing. What is interesting is that Crokes seem to have adopted it as an ingredient in achieving success and the Gooch excerpt from his autobiography in yesterdays Independent provides an insight into the 5% difference between winning and losing. Perhaps the nearly campaigns of recent years have encouraged Crokes to develop this edge. Whatever the cause or source the critical issue is its acceptance by officials - in competitive situations people always try to push the boundaries and they keep pushing until they meet resistance. I guarantee if officials kick back and take action, the sidelines throughout the county will improve - hopefully this is done before a major incident occurs.
What are the predictions and thoughts for the two big games next weekend. Many seem to think a S. Kerry V Crokes final is the most likely outcome.
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Post by buck02 on Oct 3, 2017 9:39:52 GMT
Crokes and West Kerry will be closer than people think. I wasnt overly impressed by Crokes in the last round. I think West Kerry have what you need to have a chance against Crokes - pace all over the pitch. Ultimately I think that the bench Crokes have will be enough to see them over the line by maybe 3 or 4 points.
In the other game, while it might be a bit simplistic but if Brian Sheehan is out injured and David Moran plays well then Rahillys will probably win. Which of the 2 big men at full forward at either end plays better will also have a big say in the outcome. I'll go for Rahillys by 1 or 2 points.
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keane
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Posts: 1,267
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Post by keane on Oct 3, 2017 12:25:09 GMT
When is the final likely to be on, assuming no draws? The 22nd?
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Post by buck02 on Oct 3, 2017 14:08:48 GMT
When is the final likely to be on, assuming no draws? The 22nd? Fixed for 22nd October at 3pm in Austin Stack Park
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Post by kerrygold on Oct 4, 2017 10:17:34 GMT
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Post by kerrygold on Oct 4, 2017 20:11:43 GMT
Why isn't Marc O Se playing senior championship this year?
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greengold35
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Post by greengold35 on Oct 4, 2017 20:26:42 GMT
Why isn't Marc O Se playing senior championship this year? Think he is just committed to the club - believe that he is doing analysis for Eir on Sat
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Post by lár na páirce on Oct 5, 2017 14:12:38 GMT
I wonder how much the county board are getting from eir for this? I know they did a deal with the GAA but there must be compensation for loss of gate as this is each county boards main money earner.
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Post by kerrygold on Oct 5, 2017 20:47:18 GMT
Why isn't Marc O Se playing senior championship this year? Think he is just committed to the club - believe that he is doing analysis for Eir on Sat He might carry the gear with him into the media area!
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Post by ruralgaa on Oct 6, 2017 12:22:35 GMT
Think he is just committed to the club - believe that he is doing analysis for Eir on Sat He might carry the gear with him into the media area! I didn't realize he wasn't togging for West Kerry until I saw him and the rest of the Gaeltacht management team scouting the Laune Rangers v Templenoe game. That game was at 3pm in Fitzgerald stadium, West Kerry were playing in ASP a couple of hours later. I thought he might have borrowed that helicopter Paidi used
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Post by kerrygold on Oct 6, 2017 16:26:47 GMT
Pity, Marc on the Gooch would be worth the entry fee alone tomorrow. He could have been asking what the craic was like in the green room.
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fivenarow
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If it aint broken, then dont fix it!
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Post by fivenarow on Oct 6, 2017 21:35:09 GMT
I’m going for a Kerins O Rahillys v crokes final after two close semifinals tomorrow.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Oct 6, 2017 22:16:35 GMT
Incredible that a forum appearing on Kerry GAA website allows anonymous keyboard warriors to vent their prejudices against a club, recently one poster discribed the Crokes as a breeding ground for louts and thugs. All for free speech but put your name and club up and then voice your opinion. You go first
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