Jo90
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Post by Jo90 on Oct 4, 2007 9:10:10 GMT
While it's good for Cork and Kerry as it means they'll both have easy paths to the Munster final and thus have only one qualifier game at most, it's very bad for Munster football as a whole. While one of the weaker teams can occasionally beat Cork or Kerry, it's virtually impossible to beat both in the same year. Limerick came very close to doing so in 2004 but besides that it must be 70 or 80 years since it happened.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Oct 4, 2007 9:14:00 GMT
This is a disgraceful decision.
Very shortsighted and damaging to footballl across the province.
Really gives ammunition to those who talk about soft all Irelands.
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Post by lessbull on Oct 4, 2007 9:22:06 GMT
Bad decision. I'm sure there are players on the Limerick, Tipp, Clare and Waterford teams who would love the opportunity just to play in a Munster final. This is seriously limiting their chances.
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Post by kerrygold on Oct 4, 2007 9:42:36 GMT
Hard to know really,the open draw has been in place for nearly 20 seasons now.Has football improved that much in munster as a result.Clare won a munster championship,tipp and limerick drew munster finals,not a great return for the open draw.
tipp,waterford and clare are in div 4 of the national league and the tommy murphy cup,none of them even contested the tommy murphy final this season.
Mean while limerick have slipped down to div 2 of the national league,theres as many arguements for as against,it seems waterford supported the seeded championship and one of limericks delegates abstained,so how serious are the weaker counties in munster?
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Johnnyb
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Post by Johnnyb on Oct 4, 2007 9:47:30 GMT
The simple fact of the matter is Waterford,Clare, Tipp and Limerick are predominantly hurling counties. Seeded draw or open draw wont make a blind bit of a difference. Its pointless debating the merits of either system.
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Post by kerrygold on Oct 4, 2007 9:51:12 GMT
The simple fact of the matter is Waterford,Clare, Tipp and Limerick are predominantly hurling counties. Seeded draw or open draw wont make a blind bit of a difference. Its pointless debating the merits of either system. i fully agree with that,the duel players in limerick werent long jumping ship,cork have no duel player either now dispite many of the hurlers being fine footballers,not many great hurlers from limerick,cork,clare,tipp,waterford choose football ahead of hurling solely |
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Post by Owenabue on Oct 4, 2007 9:57:08 GMT
Kerrygold, by all accounts, Masters, Cussen and Cadogan are all fine hurlers. I'm sure it's the anti Cork bias thing again.  How many more times do Cork and Kerry have to play each other?? Haunting me ye are!  |
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Johnnyb
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Post by Johnnyb on Oct 4, 2007 10:15:22 GMT
I'd love to see an open 32 county draw. No qualms of a soft all ireland then. The taught of that is mouthwatering.
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Post by austinstacksabu on Oct 4, 2007 14:56:51 GMT
It would be an ideal competition - but the provincial final still holds some element of credibility at the moment. Just look at the joy of the Sligo players when they won the Connacht title this year.....
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Oct 4, 2007 15:16:45 GMT
It would be an ideal competition - but the provincial final still holds some element of credibility at the moment. Just look at the joy of the Sligo players when they won the Connacht title this year..... You are right but this joy is something we are never likely to witness in Munster again as a result of this decision. Kerry and Cork hardly celebrate a Munster title now. Clare won a Munster and Limerick and Tipp came very very close in the past 15 years. If other counties were engaging in this sort of thing we would all be up in arms about it |
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Post by kerrygold on Oct 4, 2007 20:39:11 GMT
jaysas the thought of cussens swinging a hurley,it would be head high !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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Post by kerrygold on Oct 4, 2007 20:43:18 GMT
It would be an ideal competition - but the provincial final still holds some element of credibility at the moment. Just look at the joy of the Sligo players when they won the Connacht title this year..... it could be easily done if they scraped the o byrne,mcgrath,mekeena,fbd cups and seeded eight groups of four from the results in the league and provencial championsips played earlier in the year. it would make for some championship played in july,august and sept,a level playing field for all,the top counties would thrive in those circumstances. |
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falveyb2k
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Post by falveyb2k on Oct 4, 2007 21:36:57 GMT
It would be an ideal competition - but the provincial final still holds some element of credibility at the moment. Just look at the joy of the Sligo players when they won the Connacht title this year..... You are right but this joy is something we are never likely to witness in Munster again as a result of this decision. Kerry and Cork hardly celebrate a Munster title now. Clare won a Munster and Limerick and Tipp came very very close in the past 15 years. If other counties were engaging in this sort of thing we would all be up in arms about it Don't agree with that, I was just watching the Munster final again last night and all the players were jumping around hugging each other overjoyed with their win and rightly so. |
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Post by Owenabue on Oct 4, 2007 23:13:35 GMT
jaysas the thought of cussens swinging a hurley,it would be head high !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! I didn't see him playing, you know me and hurling, but he's meant to be good anyway. There was a big bit in the paper, Examiner if I'm not mistaken about him being good. |
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Oct 5, 2007 7:57:10 GMT
You are right but this joy is something we are never likely to witness in Munster again as a result of this decision. Kerry and Cork hardly celebrate a Munster title now. Clare won a Munster and Limerick and Tipp came very very close in the past 15 years. If other counties were engaging in this sort of thing we would all be up in arms about it Don't agree with that, I was just watching the Munster final again last night and all the players were jumping around hugging each other overjoyed with their win and rightly so. Well of course they are going to celebrate at the time but I say the celebrations are nothing like the Sligo one's. Always good to beat Cork but deep down the players know what matters. This team only cares about All Irelands not Munsters (players are on record as saying that) Also Kerry players openly questioned the value of a provincial win after the Monaghan game given the long break. I doubt Sligo said the same after they lost. Declan Brown would have given up anything for a Munster medal with Tipp including an all Ireland medal with any other county. If Declan was a young player now he could be way more tempted to play with another county given how much of a long shot it is to win the provincial. Finally just to draw another analogy. Plenty of people on here would complain and rightly so about the UEFA Champions league and how its set up for the big clubs to do well year after year at the exclusion of smaller clubs. Its a pure cartel. What the Munster council have done is no different and even more blatant. This smacks of pure arrogance and greed. |
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Post by kerrygold on Oct 5, 2007 8:27:02 GMT
you'd have a good point exile if 3 of the 6 munster teams werent div 4 of the national league,none of them managed to get to the final of the tommy murphy cup either.Limerick are the only realistic challengers to cork and kerry in munster and if their good enough will beat them.
waterford supported the seeded draw and one of limericks delegates abstained,the vote was 8 to 7 in favour,hard to find arrogance and greed in that democratic decision in fairness.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Oct 5, 2007 8:37:04 GMT
I don't see what the league has to do with it.
Sure i could bring up recent u21 and minor games to counter that and say these counties are improving.
Other than money why do it?
Kerry V Cork replay in 2006 was hardly the best attented game anyway.
The Waterford board are a disgrace and have done a disservice to their footballers.
No doubt they will get their payback when it comes to a hurling related vote at some stage.
I would be more interested in the opinions of the players and mgt.
This is an artificial arrangement to suit Kerry and Cork which they didn't need anyway.
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Jo90
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Post by Jo90 on Oct 5, 2007 10:32:55 GMT
I have to say I'm not too impressed with Sean Walsh's role in this, in his first major act as vice-chairman.
A vice-chairman should be impartial and have the best interest of the whole province in mind not just the big 2.
His excuse that it needed to be done because of the poor attendances in provincial finals is a complete smokescreen.
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diehard
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Post by diehard on Oct 5, 2007 15:11:09 GMT
In response to all the negative comment here on the seeding system can anyone suggest how counties such as Tipp, Waterford, clare etc progress they've never put a consistant string of results together. How do weeker counties get better ....................  ?Realistically the AI is decided between 8 counties each year can anyone remember a county that came from absolutely nowhere to win AI |
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Post by Walter Mitty on Oct 5, 2007 15:14:09 GMT
Do not agree with this decision. its a kick in the balls to the "little guy". We are supposed to make the championships more open. OK, you may argue that Kerry and Cork will win anyway but do we end up changing the rule everytime Clare or Limerick get a decent team together??
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Oct 5, 2007 15:25:15 GMT
In response to all the negative comment here on the seeding system can anyone suggest how counties such as Tipp, Waterford, clare etc progress they've never put a consistant string of results together. How do weeker counties get better .................... ?Realistically the AI is decided between 8 counties each year can anyone remember a county that came from absolutely nowhere to win AI Teams don't come usually from nowhere to win an AI but they can win a provincial with a bit of luck. Sligo this year got the luck of the draw becuse Galway and Mayo were on the other side of it. |
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Jo90
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Post by Jo90 on Oct 5, 2007 15:25:53 GMT
Realistically the AI is decided between 8 counties each year can anyone remember a county that came from absolutely nowhere to win AI Meath '96, Galway '98, Tyrone '03. A lot of teams have come from nowhere to win provincial titles and that's what the weaker counties are aiming for. |
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Post by austinstacksabu on Oct 5, 2007 19:28:22 GMT
Tyrone '03 did not come out of nowhere - they had won the league in 2002 and again in 2003!!
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falveyb2k
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Post by falveyb2k on Oct 5, 2007 21:41:19 GMT
The players didn't question the value of the Munster final, they questioned the schedule which forced them to take a 6 week break. They were overjoyed to win the Munster final, Kerry vs Cork is still huge! Cast your mind back to July 16th and how depressed they were after that. Was that only for show too?
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Aine
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Post by Aine on Oct 6, 2007 1:14:07 GMT
I have to say I'm not too impressed with Sean Walsh's role in this, in his first major act as vice-chairman. A vice-chairman should be impartial and have the best interest of the whole province in mind not just the big 2. His excuse that it needed to be done because of the poor attendances in provincial finals is a complete smokescreen. But Sean is still Kerry Chairman until the middle of December.. |
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diehard
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Post by diehard on Oct 6, 2007 9:33:38 GMT
Realistically the AI is decided between 8 counties each year can anyone remember a county that came from absolutely nowhere to win AI Meath '96, Galway '98, Tyrone '03. A lot of teams have come from nowhere to win provincial titles and that's what the weaker counties are aiming for. I wouldn't exactly at that any of these teams bar Galway came out if nowhere. I bet anyone gieven maybe three guesses will name the AI champs foe next year. Champions league format is the way to go but thats another arguement |
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Post by dstar10 on Oct 6, 2007 12:36:53 GMT
Meath '96, Galway '98, Tyrone '03. A lot of teams have come from nowhere to win provincial titles and that's what the weaker counties are aiming for. I wouldn't exactly at that any of these teams bar Galway came out if nowhere. I bet anyone gieven maybe three guesses will name the AI champs foe next year. Champions league format is the way to go but thats another arguement u can cut that list down to 3 or 4 at a max. im sick of hearing and reading this champions league style thing. its gaelic games not soccer. people love copying what they do in soccer. btw in d champions league only 3 or 4 teams can win it anyway with d odd exception of course. of course d weaker counties should be helped. perhaps in munster a round robin series between all d weak counties in munster tipp clare waterford limerick (can we add cork 2 dat list !) and d winners are drawn 2 play one of d big 2 in munster or d top 2 play kerry and cork in d traditional semi. it would give them more games but they have 2 be dedicated 2 it no half hearted efforts |
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Post by kerrygold on Oct 8, 2007 11:27:33 GMT
a champions league type format would liberate the club footballer and the heart beat of the gaa the club.
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Post by austinstacksabu on Oct 8, 2007 15:14:33 GMT
Liberate?
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Post by kerrygold on Oct 8, 2007 16:02:50 GMT
a champions league type format could be played off in 10 or12 weeks instead of the present 4 and half months plus time scale, games and fixtures would be more structured,some counties wouldnt be waiting 6 to 8 weeks for a game and other counties playing 3 championship games in 14 days,it would create a more even playing field for all concerned resulting in the club player and clubs knowing exactly where they stood with fixtures. |
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How many more times do Cork and Kerry have to play each other?? Haunting me ye are! 
