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Post by lostinmayo on Sept 12, 2007 10:52:01 GMT
agree with most of what you say Buck, will give my thoughts later... as for team, i'm surprised there is the one positional change actually, Declan is inline for player of the year playing at no. 10 and they moved him, Bros is not having a great season, great 35 mins Vs Dublin aside, but he is deffo no wing forward, 40 yards man or nowhere, people said that about Declan, but the man has been immense this year...
and then the other side, it's obvious they've switched Galvin to the other win because of potential clash with O' Leary, I think Morgan will put O'Leary on him though
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Post by buck02 on Sept 12, 2007 10:55:19 GMT
But sure lostinmayo Declan played on the 40 for all of the Dublin game (and was man of the match) didnt he? The move to the wing also seemed to suit Brosnan as he played his best game of the year.
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Post by Walter Mitty on Sept 12, 2007 11:03:49 GMT
Just to show corks confidence, this is the latest result of a poll on the Cork Gaa website.
"Can Cork prevent Kerry from winning two All Irelands in a row?
Yes 73%
No 27%
Total Votes: 289"
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Post by lostinmayo on Sept 12, 2007 11:04:33 GMT
did he really? that's what happens when you don't go to games, you don't really see what's going on... didn't know that atall... it looked to me like Bros was in the centre especially in first half.. but i wasn't there...
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Joxer
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Post by Joxer on Sept 12, 2007 11:10:45 GMT
Excellent post Buck02...not much to argue with in that. Hopefully we get the big games in particular from the players you've mentioned. If we do, then I think your summation will be spot-on. Heres hoping anyway!
As you say, the positioning of the half-forward line is identical to that which started against Dublin, with Paul on the right wing, Eoin on the left and Declan in the middle.
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Post by luxrebel on Sept 12, 2007 11:21:27 GMT
Regarding the poll, there is a difference between can and will. You would probably get a higher percentage of Cork people replying yes to - Can Kerry stop Cork winning etc....
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Post by inforthebreaks on Sept 12, 2007 11:25:07 GMT
Just to show corks confidence, this is the latest result of a poll on the Cork Gaa website. "Can Cork prevent Kerry from winning two All Irelands in a row? Yes 73% No 27% Total Votes: 289" of course they CAN beat Kerry. I think if you polled Kerry people with the question CAN Kerry beat Cork you would get a 100% positive answer rate. What they should ahve asked is WILL cork stop Kerry..
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Post by krusty on Sept 12, 2007 11:29:33 GMT
yep but you can only reply to the way the poll was phrased!!! So no change from ye lot... no surprise there. The way the cork full back line pick up their men will be crucial. Also Scanlon V Derek Kavangh could be very interesting. Thought both had good semi picking up a lots of breaks and winning hard ball. Do ye think Marc O'Sé will pick up Maters or O'Connor?
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Post by austinstacksabu on Sept 12, 2007 11:33:54 GMT
Fine thoughts there Buck, and they nearly have me swaying towards the draw. However, do you really think Dublin's midfield are as good as Corks? Not a hope of it. Murphy is head to head with Declan O'Sullivan for player of the year and Kavanagh hasn't put a foot wrong this championship. Ciaran Whelan was still doing disappearing acts against Meath and Laois in stages this year and Rhyno wasn't being used properly as he was in 2005, nor producing the goods as he was in 2005. Consider also that Cork have other players who are comfortable at midfield - Dublin didn't have anybody that stepped up to the plate apart from one or two enterprising moments from Cullen. Magee didn't add much whenever he took to the pitch either for the most part.
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tol
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Post by tol on Sept 12, 2007 11:34:59 GMT
agree with most of what you say Buck, will give my thoughts later... as for team, i'm surprised there is the one positional change actually, Declan is inline for player of the year playing at no. 10 and they moved him, Bros is not having a great season, great 35 mins Vs Dublin aside, but he is deffo no wing forward, 40 yards man or nowhere, people said that about Declan, but the man has been immense this year... and then the other side, it's obvious they've switched Galvin to the other win because of potential clash with O' Leary, I think Morgan will put O'Leary on him though More likely Galvin on right side to add extra physical presence against mcmahon,who was the cork player that caused most damage with his running in the munster final
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Post by Mickmack on Sept 12, 2007 12:43:53 GMT
Great post again Buck...... my only quibble with you is your contention that Dublins midfield is as good as Corks.......... I cant agree on that one.
This is why i am worried.
You rightly point out that this is not a munster final............. and its hard to win an All Ireland at the first attempt.
I feel a bit better having read your post!!
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Post by buck02 on Sept 12, 2007 12:49:25 GMT
I just think that Whelan and Ryan are a better combination for workrate, physicality and scoring ability than Murphy and Kavanagh who probably would shade it in terms of fielding and breaks.
I assume that what Stacks and mickmack are basing their assertions on is the midfield diamond of Cork, which includes Spillane and O Neill. Those 4 are probably going to cause problems for our midfield, but if I was Spillane I'd be much more worried about Declan Sullivan than worried about helping out the midfield. And Cork will need all there forwards posing scoring threats, O Neill will be concentrating more on helping out at midfield to the detriment of Corks scoring abilities.
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Post by Mickmack on Sept 12, 2007 13:06:35 GMT
how good will Dara be? His form in the latter part of the year was sublime but thats a long time ago.
He is starting to resemble Ciaran Whelan a bit.......... a good 20 minute spurt and then out of the game again.
He had a good first 20 minutes in the second half against Cork.......... a good last 10 minutes against Monaghan. He was doing well against Dublin in fairness before the injury but is there 70 minutes in him now.
Just because he did it in the past is no guarantee for sunday. Seamus Moynihan was taken taken for 3 points in the 2005 final after being dimished by injury.
We need a huge game from Brosnan. He was poor in the munster final. Declan kept the half forward ticking over in that game. Galvin was drawn down alleys that suited O'Leary. That may happen again......... i expect it to happen.
So if Galvin is otherwise engaged, Dara is struggling and Brosnan is not on song .............we have a problem
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Post by buck02 on Sept 12, 2007 13:13:54 GMT
So if Galvin is otherwise engaged, Dara is struggling and Brosnan is not on song .............we have a problem And if Murphy and Kavanagh are dominated by Darragh & Scanlon and Donnacha O Connor is tied up by Reidy or whoever then Cork have a major problem. The point can be made about 3 or 4 from each team.... we obviously wont know until Sunday.
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Post by kerrygold on Sept 12, 2007 13:19:28 GMT
what will happen if 10 or 12 of the kerry players peak on the day,or if the kerry attack slips into 6th gear and spots an unhindered motorway in front of it.
i agree darragh might struggle,brosnan has never let kerry down in midfield on the big day,may i add brosnan has won both his all-ireland medals at midfield,i'd be happy enough to see him out there if needs be.
darragh is a man for the big occassion,i find it hard to believe he would let sunday pass him by and watch with the innocence of a baby infant school child as his mother left the school yard on his first day at school.
o cinneade talks alot about innocent football,the o se's dont do innocent football,maybe carlsburg proberly does.
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Post by Mickmack on Sept 12, 2007 13:29:42 GMT
I had this feeling of foreboding prior to the 2002 and 2005 finals as well.............. not much consolation.
Kerrygold......... I dont anyone is saying that Dara will stand idly by and let Cork win.......... its just that he may not be the man he was anymore........
He is human........ superhuman at times in fairness
where are you coming from with this stuff about a baby infant school child
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Post by Walter Mitty on Sept 12, 2007 14:12:37 GMT
Daras form during the league was amazing. slowed down a bit during the championship but still playing fairly well..... he has set the standard so high for himself its hard for him to play up to our expectations week in week out.
I famcy him to rise to the occasion Sunday against his Nemesis!
Regarding Corks midfield it is far better than Ciaran Houdini Whelan and Shane Ryan.
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Post by rinnaseer on Sept 12, 2007 14:17:06 GMT
Lads, check out what Niall Cahalane has quoted on the "other" gaa website;
"If Kerry lose this final, what they have achieved over the last 100 years will count for nothing. I think Cork might shade it."
Now there's fightin' talk!!!!.
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Post by austinstacksabu on Sept 12, 2007 14:22:12 GMT
Coming back to your point Buck, it is that diamond in midfield, with Cussen also coming back from time to time. That's alot of men who can win clean ball in midfield.....Dublin didn't have that.
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Post by kerrygold on Sept 12, 2007 14:23:37 GMT
i think its fairly clear from my post mickmack that i dont expect darragh if fit to stand back in a passive or innocent way and let sunday pass him by.These o se's were bred to fight for the green and gold on the big croker days,remember armagh last year.
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Post by kerrygold on Sept 12, 2007 14:26:11 GMT
Coming back to your point Buck, it is that diamond in midfield, with Cussen also coming back from time to time. That's alot of men who can win clean ball in midfield.....Dublin didn't have that. thats were mike quirke came into play in the munster final,he broke,contested,harried with all these big cork men in this sector of the fields till he ran out of legs.
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Post by buck02 on Sept 12, 2007 14:27:59 GMT
Regarding the midfield, I can see Brosnan contesting a lot of kick outs, like he did against Dublin, and like Cork having the option to bring out Cussen, we can bring out Donaghy for spells if required. And we have Galvin, Declan, Tomas and Mahony to win carpet ball which they are renowned for as well. I dont see where all the doom and gloom over the middle third is coming from.
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Post by kerrygold on Sept 12, 2007 14:30:49 GMT
if the players go up feeling like this,all doom and gloom, we may all aswell all stay at home.
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Post by austinstacksabu on Sept 12, 2007 14:31:57 GMT
Because we have just about broken even with lesser midfields this year. Cork have beaten us before in midfield (one of the few teams to do so, even Tyrone didn't break even with us in 2005) and have incredible potential to do so again on Sunday.
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Post by austinstacksabu on Sept 12, 2007 14:33:22 GMT
if the players go up feeling like this,all doom and gloom, we may all aswell all stay at home. Mick and I are two of the only doom merchants around here this week. There certainly isn't much doom and gloom around Kerry anyway, that's for sure. A quite bit of foreboding never did us harm in the past you know!
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Post by ciarrai33 on Sept 12, 2007 14:33:56 GMT
Cork might have the big men to win the clean catches, but this game is gonna come down to broken ball. Aiden O' Mahony, Tomas O' Se, Galvin and Brosnan need to be fully alert
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Sept 12, 2007 14:44:06 GMT
Yeah stacks you keep predicting those defeats, it makes me feel more confident.
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Jo90
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Posts: 2,695
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Post by Jo90 on Sept 12, 2007 14:45:42 GMT
Statistics from the Dublin game show that Dublin midfield twice as much possession (either caugh or direct or broken ball) so it shows that Kerry don't have to win midfield to win a game. Where's the P.M.A doubting Thomases?
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Post by Mickmack on Sept 12, 2007 14:47:39 GMT
i think its fairly clear from my post mickmack that i dont expect darragh if fit to stand back in a passive or innocent way and let sunday pass him by.These o se's were bred to fight for the green and gold on the big croker days,remember armagh last year. I have never seen an O'Se from Ard a Bhothar to stand back from anything.......... did someone suggest they would. Where was it said.
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Post by kerrygold on Sept 12, 2007 14:51:09 GMT
just repointing out exactly that thats exactly what my post meant.
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