Bomber on The Pony

[seamus]

Liston: Moynihan is one of the best ever
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Go Wednesday September 05 2007


Eoin "Bomber" Liston has paid the ultimate compliment to Seamus Moynihan by insisting he hasn't seen a better footballer than him.


"Bomber" believes Moynihan, who retired after last year's All-Ireland victory over Mayo, was comparable to his own playing colleague Jack O'Shea, who he has long regarded as the best-ever footballer.

In response to a recent article written by the ex-Meath midfielder Liam Hayes, who berated Kerry football over the last 30 years for producing only one real star (Darragh O Se), the winner of seven All-Ireland medals "Bomber" eulogised Moynihan.

"I haven't seen a better player than Seamus Moynihan. I played with Jack O'Shea who I thought was the best player I'd ever seen. I couldn't say he was better than Seamus, but I would say Seamus was equally as good. I would have seen him play colleges football, third level with Tralee IT, underage and club football. For every time Liam (Hayes) would have seen him I would have seen him 10 times."

"Bomber" also claimed Marc O Se has been the best defender in the game for the last three years and believes Kieran Donaghy still remains a better full-forward than midfielder despite his prominence against Dublin.

"Kieran is a fantastic midfielder, but it is the extra dimension he brings to full-forward play that takes huge pressure off the Gooch. It's so tight now to get the few yards free at times players at half-back and midfield don't have time to be picking targets and at times you just have to lamp it in. He is so unselfish and has that vision that makes him special as a full-forward."

Liston was at yesterday's O'Neill's Kilmacud Crokes Sevens launch in Croke Park, where he predicted a "pressure" All-Ireland final between Kerry and Cork for "bragging rights alone".

"It's one thing losing a Munster final, but an All-Ireland? I'm sure if there were qualifiers the counties would have met a few times in All-Ireland finals back in the 1970s. The two hard matches Kerry had against Monaghan and Dublin were worth 15 training sessions though, and I would think we have a little advantage in our forwards to win."

[kerrygold]

A sensible article

[Piggy]

the bomber rarely says something wrong, he'd be a good man to train kerry sometime in the future.

[outsider23]

Liam Hayes said that Moynihan was "exceptionally good, strong and brave" but not great.. Moynihan did underperform in the '02 and '05 AI finals against top class forwards, ie. Clarke, Dooher, McGuigan. The teams Kerry faced in the '02 and '05 finals were far superior IMO than Galway 2000 and the most recent Mayo teams and hence the doubts persist countyrwide re: Moynihan's greatness.

Seamus won 3 All Star awards in 15 years.. reasonable return for a defender but it wouldn't scream greatness from the rooftops??.. Saying that i don't know of another defender who has won 3 All-Start awards in the same 15 years?

[kerrygold]

seamus was robbed off an allstar in '98 and possibly at least one other.

he also wasnt physically fit to man the cente half back slot v tyrone in '05,if you dig out the kerryman from a few months back and read the article weeshie did with seamus as regards his work wth the physio hartman in limerick you will see this to be correct.

[ardfertnarrie]

scan1 said:

the bomber rarely says something wrong, he'd be a good man to train kerry sometime in the future.

Not being smart, but not saying anything wrong is easy and it certainly doesn't qualify you for the Kerry job.

[ardfertnarrie]

outsider23 said:

Liam Hayes said that Moynihan was "exceptionally good, strong and brave" but not great.. Moynihan did underperform in the '02 and '05 AI finals against top class forwards, ie. Clarke, Dooher, McGuigan. The teams Kerry faced in the '02 and '05 finals were far superior IMO than Galway 2000 and the most recent Mayo teams and hence the doubts persist countyrwide re: Moynihan's greatness.

Seamus won 3 All Star awards in 15 years.. reasonable return for a defender but it wouldn't scream greatness from the rooftops??.. Saying that i don't know of another defender who has won 3 All-Start awards in the same 15 years?

What are you blabbering on for so?

[falveyb2k]

outsider, that Galway team was better than Armagh and Tyrone. 2 final victories and 1 final loss, Armagh only have one and Tyrone have only been in 2 finals. Let's be honest who would you rather mark, Joyce,Clarke or McGugian? Moynihan went into a position he wasn't used to and was man of the match against the best full forward in the game which sealed his footballer of the year award. Greatness sums all that up pretty easily.

[animal]

outsider23 said:

Liam Hayes said that Moynihan was "exceptionally good, strong and brave" but not great.. Moynihan did underperform in the '02 and '05 AI finals against top class forwards, ie. Clarke, Dooher, McGuigan. The teams Kerry faced in the '02 and '05 finals were far superior IMO than Galway 2000 and the most recent Mayo teams and hence the doubts persist countyrwide re: Moynihan's greatness.

Seamus won 3 All Star awards in 15 years.. reasonable return for a defender but it wouldn't scream greatness from the rooftops??.. Saying that i don't know of another defender who has won 3 All-Start awards in the same 15 years?

May I ask how many times you saw the man play in person? Most Kerry people base their opinion on him from the countless league games, east kerry games, glenflesk games, Sigerson games, school games and comp rules games where his consistancy was second to none before you even start with the Championship games with Kerry. I've not seen any other inter-county player from Kerry be so consistantly brilliant at all of these levels.
The fact that the majority of Kerry people bestow greatness on the man is good enough judgement in my book. We have had our fair share of class players down the years yet why do WE put Moynihan at the top of the heap? We do not bestow greatness on any old footballer. We really don't. Sure aren't we the harshest judges of all? F***ing animals that we are!

[tyroneperson]

falveyb2k said:

outsider, that Galway team was better than Armagh and Tyrone. 2 final victories and 1 final loss, Armagh only have one and Tyrone have only been in 2 finals.

By that standard then Maurice Fitzgerald isn't that good because he only has two all-stars are something, you can't just judge a team like that. Sure Mayo got to two all-ireland finals, not much worse than Armagh, but no-one would say Mayo are as good. We may have won two which you might turn your nose up at, but we beat Armagh and Kerry in both years which must count for something, plus the ten-game run in 05, the general impact had on the game, blah blah blah. But yet, because Galway got to an extra final, automatically better? And regardless, there's no reason why Tyrone can't get to another final or two if things work out.


EDIT: And anyways, so far what I'd consider the current Kerry team has won two all-irelands themselves. This will probably change soon though!

[falveyb2k]

tyroneperson said:

falveyb2k said:

outsider, that Galway team was better than Armagh and Tyrone. 2 final victories and 1 final loss, Armagh only have one and Tyrone have only been in 2 finals.

By that standard then Maurice Fitzgerald isn't that good because he only has two all-stars are something, you can't just judge a team like that. Sure Mayo got to two all-ireland finals, not much worse than Armagh, but no-one would say Mayo are as good. We may have won two which you might turn your nose up at, but we beat Armagh and Kerry in both years which must count for something, plus the ten-game run in 05, the general impact had on the game, blah blah blah. But yet, because Galway got to an extra final, automatically better? And regardless, there's no reason why Tyrone can't get to another final or two if things work out.


EDIT: And anyways, so far what I'd consider the current Kerry team has won two all-irelands themselves.

Note I said TEAM and not individual. Galway consistently threatened fro long periods when they were on the go. I never said I turned my nose at Tyrone's two wins, it's just that when outsider23 said that other teams were far superior(which they weren't) I was obviously going to make a valid point. Don't jump to conclusions, football didn't start in 2003 which is why you're probably forgetting about our wins in 97 and 00 as well!

[tyroneperson]

I didn't forget about them....I was actually at the 1997 match. If you count them, well then weren't Tyrone in three all-ireland finals (1995)? Though I don't see why either would be counted. It's very different teams to ten or twelve years ago for both Kerry/Tyrone.

[falveyb2k]

Well there are Kerry players from 97 and 00 still involved so......

[tyroneperson]

Same with Tyrone for 03/05, people like Canavan, Chris Lawn, Cavlan. Not many, but not really much less than with Kerry 1997. I still think for both sides these days it's a very different situation team to the mid nineties. Not so much because of the players involved really.

[falveyb2k]

A large amount of the players were involved in 2000, and there were still a few in 97 as well. That's why I mentioned them, because you didn't

[Attacking Wing Back]

falveyb2k said:

outsider, that Galway team was better than Armagh and Tyrone. 2 final victories and 1 final loss, Armagh only have one and Tyrone have only been in 2 finals. Let's be honest who would you rather mark, Joyce,Clarke or McGugian? Moynihan went into a position he wasn't used to and was man of the match against the best full forward in the game which sealed his footballer of the year award. Greatness sums all that up pretty easily.

I am a fan of moynihan but i must say that seamus was prettymuch roasted by clarke in 2002 and got a bit of a run around from mcguigan in 2005. His good displays far outweighed the bad in croke park but it must be said that he did meet his match on oe or two occasions, the sign of a great player was that he learned and came back better and stronger. As for the duel with joyce in 2000 i think they werent even marking each other directly for most of the games as galway needed joyces influence further out the field

[kerrygold]

seamus shouldnt be judged '05 form,he wasnt up to it physically.

he didnt want to be full back in '02,although i accept clarke gave him plenty of it and not wanting to be there is no excuse.

in '00 galeway took joyce of seamus because he bet him hands down.

[Attacking Wing Back]

i woulnt agree with that bout 2000. in fairness he did well on him at the start and would prob have taken him neway. but galway were so poor outfield they moved joyce out

[kerrygold]

joyce was a beaten ticket on seamus that day AWB and galway knew it too,they were the best of friends of the field and shared a point together after the replayed game,sometimes certain circumstances come into influence a duel between two players where they would be better off not marking each other.

[Attacking Wing Back]

Fair enough, still think ronan clarke is the only forward along with corkery from cork to trouble seamus

[paddyb]

I sick and tired of hearing this flawed analysis of the 02 final. Yes Clarke did score 3 point but go back and look at the game and you will see that Seamus won the vast majority of 50:50 tussels. Kerry lost the 02 final because they could not win any ball in midfield and because the forward line did not function in the second half.

[FatTom]

Any one who watches that - game yes Clarke took him for 3 points. Put Seamus exerted a massive influence on the game when moved out.

I think it was Paidi's greatest flaw that he never got enough out of Moynihan (played the greatest payer of our generatin out of position) and that he reduced Maurice to the bench and eventually retirement and then has the cheek to call us animals.

Yes we are harsh critics but also we stand by our team and praise greatneess. Great is what Seamus Moynihan is - no matter what Liam Hayes tells you he is akin to the journalists who never gave Roy Keane the appreciation he deserved.
Seamus may not have had the ball skills that Gooch had or the passing ability of a Brian MacGuigan but he was the backbone of that Kerry team, a leader beyond belief and the greatest anticipator of the opposition we've seen in a long time.

It was a sin to see him wasted at full back for so many years.
We left a couple of All Irelands after us due to it.

As for the Tyrone Galway debate I'd rate Tyrone 03 and 05 far better than Galway as a team.

[austinstacksabu]

Ok, so you'd have moved Seamus out.....but who would you have had at full back? Remember, he moved him in there after trying Tom Sullivan and a returned from injury Barry O'Shea (and Barry was injured again soon after) before moving Seamus into the full back position.

[kerrygold]

barry o shea was fit for that final,for a long timemike mac and tom sull werent trusted as full backs

[seamus]

kerrygold said:

barry o shea was fit for that final,for a long timemike mac and tom sull werent trusted as full backs

Correct. It was the big flaw paidi had. He was reluctant to put trust in people outside of his key men.
He had no faith in Mike Mac as a fullback or Maurice in later years and depended on the players with big reputations to dig him out.
In fairness, Jack just put in anyone who was on form (including Paddy Kelly)
It probably held Paidi and the team's development back a bit.
I still think he did a super job when you look at where the team was in 96. He put the Kerry swagger back into the Kerry team.