Dr. Crokes v Crossmaglen

[Kingdomson]

Feb 19, 2012 11:07:23 GMT dec said:

Feb 18, 2012 15:44:12 GMT Ard Mhacha said:

Feb 18, 2012 15:29:54 GMT seamo said:

Honestly, that's pretty sick!

What's sick about it?

I'm not comparing Cross to any other team or any other sport. I'm just saying it's a fantastic achievement with what they've won over the last decade and a half.

I guess he means this -- m.urbandictionary.com/#define?term=sick

Get with it...

I blame the TV show 'The Wire' myself. True that! ;D

[Ard Mhacha]

Feb 18, 2012 20:32:41 GMT seamo said:

Feb 18, 2012 15:44:12 GMT Ard Mhacha said:

What's sick about it?

I'm not comparing Cross to any other team or any other sport. I'm just saying it's a fantastic achievement with what they've won over the last decade and a half.

You've misunderstood me completely!!! haha I mean "sick" in a good way, their acheivements are unbelievable.

I'm comparing them to some of the best teams in the world!! lol From any sport, no other team wins 15 from 16 in any sport. NFL? no, NBA? no, "Soccer" no................and then to win what 6? All-Ireland's in that time frame? I think Kerry have won 6 in the same time, but it's far harder to win a club All-Ireland.

So I'm full of praise for Cross..........you need to watch more American tv, haha less Fair City, then you'll know what "sick" can mean!!

Again congrats to Cross.....should be a good final against Garrycastle

Oh right!

I can't remember ever hearing 'sick' used in those terms. Having said that, I don't watch much TV, especially not American shows. Unless it's The Simpsons, but I don't recall Homer ever using it ;D

[jazzz]

Was at game yesterday and I have to say Crokes threw this away.. Individually they have better players than Cross. However they didnt work as hard as Cross. Also the crokes sideline was poor.. How Quinn was left on Clarke is beyond me, roasted for every ball and clearly didnt have the speed to keep up, Fitzgerald who was excellent would have done a far better job.. Brosnan was magnificent and was one of very few to take the game to Cross. If more took his lead crokes would be in the final

[mozzy]

No disrespect to Dr Crokes but it goes on and on and on - we can no longer beat teams from the North - we have done nothing to change our style of play at club or senior level. I truly fear for the future of Kerry Football - someone needs to look at this in detail and change the resolve. We have all the talent in the world and none of the admiral grit and determination of teams from the North. Am I being unfair here? I guess as I get older it just gets more annoying on seeing Kerry teams throw away leads - crazy lateral passing - no true sense of crushing the opposition and no direct straight forward play.... Maybe I am way off base and expect too much ...

[caesar]

You're spot on, Crokes play a hybridised game between basketball and football.Fair play to Cross they are some team and some club an example to the rest of the country.

[sullyschoice]

Again the lateral handpassing and getting caught in possession. It really told in the latter stages when they needed to move the ball quickly when chasing the game.

Better team won

[swss]

here is my bit i agree with you mozzy, im a coach in kerry and the training courses we hold in kerry are very poor in the north they hold courses every second weekend.. on every aspect off the game down here we are blessed with having natural footballers and a very well organised county league... championship is poorly run in gerneral too much space between games. so i spoke to a county officer one day and said to her that they should run loads of courses for coaches who in turn will benifit from it and take it back into the clubs and in turn we develop good coaches and good players and she said developments squads are the way forward. so its better to hold 3/4 coaching courses a year and hold development spauads where you help 30/40 players but if you put more money into the coaches who take it back to the clubs you help hundreds of players also the crokes game shows how we as coahes lose it on the side line from not having the knowledge to counter act decisions in a game.. i remember a few years ago kerry were playing down i think in tralee and the games was 8 points all and the kerry player had a sideline kick and all they did is hoof the ball into the square and hope for the best you would think that a team who train 3/4 nights a week would have to plan or a move to make space to get the ball to a player who could get a score besides a hoof

[seamo]

Feb 19, 2012 21:58:25 GMT swss said:

here is my bit i agree with you mozzy, im a coach in kerry and the training courses we hold in kerry are very poor in the north they hold courses every second weekend.. on every aspect off the game down here we are blessed with having natural footballers and a very well organised county league... championship is poorly run in gerneral too much space between games. so i spoke to a county officer one day and said to her that they should run loads of courses for coaches who in turn will benifit from it and take it back into the clubs and in turn we develop good coaches and good players and she said developments squads are the way forward. so its better to hold 3/4 coaching courses a year and hold development spauads where you help 30/40 players but if you put more money into the coaches who take it back to the clubs you help hundreds of players also the crokes game shows how we as coahes lose it on the side line from not having the knowledge to counter act decisions in a game.. i remember a few years ago kerry were playing down i think in tralee and the games was 8 points all and the kerry player had a sideline kick and all they did is hoof the ball into the square and hope for the best you would think that a team who train 3/4 nights a week would have to plan or a move to make space to get the ball to a player who could get a score besides a hoof

I'm not the only one!!! Thank you........Kerry GAA are hopeless when it comes to coaching courses, I'm dying to do the level 1 course!. On the other hand, Dublin and Ulster counties never stop holding coaching courses.

The Kerry struggle against Northern teams/we're doomed is a little over the top, the talent is there but we're too cautious in our approach. We're basing our worries only on Kerry seniors and Crokes, but it wouldn't take much to turn it around. Kerry can win an All-Ireland by just playing more direct with pace, less handpassing. Likewise Crokes have the talent to win an AI, would have won yesterday if they were brave enough to kick rather then handpass.

M/C won an intermediate All-Ireland kicking the ball, beat Ulster champs in semi's, so it isn't impossible.

[kerrystar]

There is an excessive focus at underage level , and senior level too, on handpassing drills. I even see under-10's on a Sunday morning doing handpassing drills. Madness

You could spend a lifetime trying to perfect your kicking off both left and right. By the same token, I think you could teach someone with reasonable co-ordination how to handpass in about half an hour. I would say the ratio of handpassing drills to kicking drills during teams training (in Kerry anyway) is about 90/10.

Teaching a young fella how to kick the ball properly would be far more productive than any handpassing drill. You could ban handpassing drills until senior level and it would be no major loss in my opinion.

As the Lord Almighty Pat Spillane says, let's put the foot back into football!

[kerrystar]

Feb 19, 2012 17:07:25 GMT jazzz said:

Also the crokes sideline was poor.. How Quinn was left on Clarke is beyond me, roasted for every ball and clearly didnt have the speed to keep up, Fitzgerald who was excellent would have done a far better job..

Correct. Madness on the part of the sideline, you could argue it cost them the game as Cross built every attack by playing the ball to Clarke who was winning the ball with ease. Fitzgerald was the obvious change as the other Cross forwards were not causing major damage

[Jigz84]

I had a feeling that the 3 or 4 bad wides that Crokes had in the first half would cost them. They died at midfield in the second half. Quinn was roasted, couldn't understand how he was left on Clarke. Also why didn't Crokes leave Cooper inside with Doolin? They were getting plenty of ball but Cooper was too far out the field to cause real damage. The better footballing team won in the end.

Eoin Brosnan was the best man on the pitch by a distance.

[buck02]

Who would people here complaining have put on Jamie Clarke? No point is saying Luke Quinn was being destroyed if you dont say who you would have put on Clarke and how that player could have done a better job.

It was blindly obvious after the Munster Final that Crokes would need to be lethal in front of goals to beat Crossmanglen because their full back line is very ordinary and the are likely to leak 15/16 points against any decent opposition.

[bcb1]

Calmed down a bit now and have watched the game a few times in the calm of victory. For 20 minutes, as has been said by everyone, Dr Crokes were very good. Their game plan of holding the ball up and having Buckley, Daithi Casey, O'DOnovan and in particular Brosnan making driving runs through the centre was very effective. However, the reality is that this game is very is very labour intensive and the repeated tackles that the runners take means that they are worn out very quickly. The 2 MFs and Caey in particular faded very badly and once Titch came on the launch pad for this was lost. The reality is too that in that period the Crokes got 3-4 very crucial refereeing decisions, the square ball goal, Ambroses excavation to pick up a ball which let to a point and there were 1-2 very dubious frees which allowed the to keep the ball in the Cross half, one in particlular against PK. We were fortunate once or twice as well, in particular a jersey pull by Titch should have afforded a 21 yard free which would have been scored.

Of course we all know what happened in regards to Oisin taking responsibility. I want to ask a very simple question, why could Cooper not do what Oisin did at the end of the first half when the Crokes needed him? We often see lists of the greatest forward of the last 30 years etc etc. Invariably the top 5 generally are Canavan, Maurice, Gooch, Joyce, Trevor Giles. You will then have the mentions for Mattie Forde, Dessie Dolan, Donnellan but rarely Oisin is seen as the top class forward in the same class as these men. I know I am biased, and I know he has been surrounded by great players, but he has been the fulcrum of the county team and the club team for years and is far from simply a free taker. His point to kick start our comeback was brilliant. He took it on himself to drive at the Crokes defence and was noy afraid to do it. This is a man of 36 with probably over 400 games at all levels to his name and he still has the drive and ability to do that. I have read on numerous forums that Crokes had better footballers but we were just a better team. I personally believe that if you went man for man on ability wise we would come out on top in over half the positions.

The sending off was wrong and frankly if, for talk sake Aaron Cunningham did what the Crokes man did, which he nearly did against St Galls (ie coming through late and frontal), there would have been uproar with the dirty cynical northerners tag being thrown up. The reality is that in a fairly clean game that didn't have a bad tackle the only instances of "cynical" play that I saw were this follow through on SK and the Gooch going down like he was shot when Oisin fouled him. It was a fould but why did he feel the need to tuck his legs under himself and spin around other than to emphasize the fall and draw a card.

The Crokes,by the time the game was really in the melting pot, were a spent force. The had no leadership in the forward line, outside of Brosnan there was no drive around the middle and he was noticebly less forceful in the second half, and the defence were chasing shadows. They were overkicking balls into the forward line and we were picking up a lot of lose ball and you'd swear we had the extra man. On several occassions Skinny, PK and Paul McKeown picked up stray passes. Gooch dropped balls, and on at least one occassion O'Leary was in his own full back line picking up the ball. This was of no benefit to Crokes.

buck02, I would take issue with you assertion that our FB line is very ordinary. The Crokes "star" FF line scored 2 points from play and all 3 have played for Armagh at every level. If anything I would say this is the strongest FB line the club has had in years.

Anyway, onto the final. Garrycastle have a very tight unit and play a very simpl style. Leave room for the 2 Dolans in the forward line and work the ball into the best position for them and Mulvihill to pick off scores. They work exceptionally hard and in Dessie have a special player. We will need Danny O back, Titch fully fit and SK to have his card lifted. We will of course be favourites and that in itself can bring problems but the management are the best I have ever seen at taking boys down to the ground after a big win. Another factor is the experience of playing in the Final. That in itself is invaluable. So long as we focus on playing our own game and do not underestimate Garrycastle then we can win but not easing up as some have suggested.

[kot]

Crokes 3 key men in the forward line didn't turn up on the day.

Jamie Doolan was the best forward for them.

Their backs were exposed really (was Quinn injured?) as many I spoke to feared.

They missed a big chance, 7 points up playing into the wind.

The better team won by far and Crokes can have absolutely no qualms. You have to admire they way Cross come back again & again. They seem like Manchester United, longevity and never panic in the face of seemingly insurmountable odds stacked against them. Anybody who can't appreciate it shouldn't be watching Gaelic Football as far as I am concerned.

[Jigz84]

Feb 20, 2012 13:24:29 GMT bcb1 said:

Calmed down a bit now and have watched the game a few times in the calm of victory. For 20 minutes, as has been said by everyone, Dr Crokes were very good. Their game plan of holding the ball up and having Buckley, Daithi Casey, O'DOnovan and in particular Brosnan making driving runs through the centre was very effective. However, the reality is that this game is very is very labour intensive and the repeated tackles that the runners take means that they are worn out very quickly. The 2 MFs and Caey in particular faded very badly and once Titch came on the launch pad for this was lost. The reality is too that in that period the Crokes got 3-4 very crucial refereeing decisions, the square ball goal, Ambroses excavation to pick up a ball which let to a point and there were 1-2 very dubious frees which allowed the to keep the ball in the Cross half, one in particlular against PK. We were fortunate once or twice as well, in particular a jersey pull by Titch should have afforded a 21 yard free which would have been scored.

Of course we all know what happened in regards to Oisin taking responsibility. I want to ask a very simple question, why could Cooper not do what Oisin did at the end of the first half when the Crokes needed him? We often see lists of the greatest forward of the last 30 years etc etc. Invariably the top 5 generally are Canavan, Maurice, Gooch, Joyce, Trevor Giles. You will then have the mentions for Mattie Forde, Dessie Dolan, Donnellan but rarely Oisin is seen as the top class forward in the same class as these men. I know I am biased, and I know he has been surrounded by great players, but he has been the fulcrum of the county team and the club team for years and is far from simply a free taker. His point to kick start our comeback was brilliant. He took it on himself to drive at the Crokes defence and was noy afraid to do it. This is a man of 36 with probably over 400 games at all levels to his name and he still has the drive and ability to do that. I have read on numerous forums that Crokes had better footballers but we were just a better team. I personally believe that if you went man for man on ability wise we would come out on top in over half the positions.

The sending off was wrong and frankly if, for talk sake Aaron Cunningham did what the Crokes man did, which he nearly did against St Galls (ie coming through late and frontal), there would have been uproar with the dirty cynical northerners tag being thrown up. The reality is that in a fairly clean game that didn't have a bad tackle the only instances of "cynical" play that I saw were this follow through on SK and the Gooch going down like he was shot when Oisin fouled him. It was a fould but why did he feel the need to tuck his legs under himself and spin around other than to emphasize the fall and draw a card.

The Crokes,by the time the game was really in the melting pot, were a spent force. The had no leadership in the forward line, outside of Brosnan there was no drive around the middle and he was noticebly less forceful in the second half, and the defence were chasing shadows. They were overkicking balls into the forward line and we were picking up a lot of lose ball and you'd swear we had the extra man. On several occassions Skinny, PK and Paul McKeown picked up stray passes. Gooch dropped balls, and on at least one occassion O'Leary was in his own full back line picking up the ball. This was of no benefit to Crokes.

buck02, I would take issue with you assertion that our FB line is very ordinary. The Crokes "star" FF line scored 2 points from play and all 3 have played for Armagh at every level. If anything I would say this is the strongest FB line the club has had in years.

Anyway, onto the final. Garrycastle have a very tight unit and play a very simpl style. Leave room for the 2 Dolans in the forward line and work the ball into the best position for them and Mulvihill to pick off scores. They work exceptionally hard and in Dessie have a special player. We will need Danny O back, Titch fully fit and SK to have his card lifted. We will of course be favourites and that in itself can bring problems but the management are the best I have ever seen at taking boys down to the ground after a big win. Another factor is the experience of playing in the Final. That in itself is invaluable. So long as we focus on playing our own game and do not underestimate Garrycastle then we can win but not easing up as some have suggested.

From my understanding, Buck was talking about the Crokes full-back line.

[buck02]

bcb1.

- I meant Crokes full back line were ordinary.

- On the sending off it looked harsh from where I was. However I thought McConville could have got at least a yellow for the elbow into the face of his man in the 1st half (and he got a yellow soon after) so that definately went Crossmaglens way.

- Crossmaglen obviously had the stronger panel and the sideline werent afraid to use them. You can see why Crossmaglen are so battle-hardened - I'd say some of their training games are as intense as a championship game.

- Finally when people go to a game they expect every player to play to his full potential without realising they might be injured, sick etc.

[bcb1]

Feb 20, 2012 13:37:55 GMT buck02 said:

bcb1.

- I meant Crokes full back line were ordinary.

- On the sending off it looked harsh from where I was. However I thought McConville could have got at least a yellow for the elbow into the face of his man in the 1st half (and he got a yellow soon after) so that definately went Crossmaglens way.

- Crossmaglen obviously had the stronger panel and the sideline werent afraid to use them. You can see why Crossmaglen are so battle-hardened - I'd say some of their training games are as intense as a championship game.

- Finally when people go to a game they expect every player to play to his full potential without realising they might be injured, sick etc.

Misread you there buck, fair enough point.

When was the elbow woth Oisin, was that when he and Brosnan were wrestling over the end line? I know something happened but didn't see it. He never deserved a yellow for the Gooch tackle so maybe one balances the other out. Training is tough that's true but nothing prepares you fully for championship football like matches. I think that is one of the reasons Crokes had the better start as they had competitive football up to January whereas we were relying on challenges.

[Ard Mhacha]

Feb 20, 2012 13:44:52 GMT bcb1 said:

Misread you there buck, fair enough point.

When was the elbow woth Oisin, was that when he and Brosnan were wrestling over the end line? I know something happened but didn't see it. He never deserved a yellow for the Gooch tackle so maybe one balances the other out. Training is tough that's true but nothing prepares you fully for championship football like matches. I think that is one of the reasons Crokes had the better start as they had competitive football up to January whereas we were relying on challenges.

Crossmaglen don't do challenge games, and from what I've heard, Cross training sessions have been brutal.

[wornout2]

All came down to experience again. Cross controlled d tempo of d game when they got into the lead and showed great heart to go straight down the field after Bradys goal to get one of their own.
Who in earth was marking A. Kernan seemed to b in acres every time he got d ball - granted he is a top class player but give him time on d ball and you're going to lose.likewise the marking of Jamie Clarke
Compare that to the close attention Crokes forward line got when anywhere near the ball.
Crokes put in a great effort tho and I suspect thats as close as any team will get to Cross this year.
Think all kerry teams could learn from d marking jobs done by the cross back line..

[kerrystar]

Feb 20, 2012 13:11:01 GMT buck02 said:

Who would people here complaining have put on Jamie Clarke? No point is saying Luke Quinn was being destroyed if you dont say who you would have put on Clarke and how that player could have done a better job.

Fionn Fitzgerald was the obvious choice. Quinn didn't have his finest day and that's human but how the Crokes management didn't switch him is beyond me. Clarke only got a point in the end but for about ten minutes in the middle of the second half every attack was based around him

[outsider23]

Some consolation for Crokes fans is that they can get all the segregation they want on their armchairs at home on the 17th March!!

[stacks]

Crokes problems all year were in the backline and it was shown up against cross . Mike Moloney , Shane Doolan and another player who left Eanna Kavanagh have been a huge loss for them and they didnt really replace them . Another problem for crokes was their bench they had a very young bench and not a lot of options . Cross on the other hand had a very strong bench and we able to bring on players who had experience and they would get on a lot of club teams in Ireland . Martin Aherne , Kyle Carragher , Brendan McKeown , Francis Hanratty , Kyle Brennan , Ronan Finnegan , Mickey Lenaghan are players they have used well all year when they need them and that is why they have the strongest panel in Ireland . Crokes will be back they have a young team and this will serve them well

[swss]

JUst there has crokes facebook and social media broke down because whern they won any match this year they had every paper report from around the country on it also every little bit on facebook now since they lost the game the last day nothing nothing thats why people dislike teams like this they shove everything into teams face when they win but go hiding when they lose you must show the good and bad sides when doing social media.

[Annascaultilidie]

Feb 23, 2012 12:53:22 GMT swss said:

JUst there has crokes facebook and social media broke down because whern they won any match this year they had every paper report from around the country on it also every little bit on facebook now since they lost the game the last day nothing nothing thats why people dislike teams like this they shove everything into teams face when they win but go hiding when they lose you must show the good and bad sides when doing social media.

Era brighten up would ya?

[hugh20]

Feb 23, 2012 12:53:22 GMT swss said:

JUst there has crokes facebook and social media broke down because whern they won any match this year they had every paper report from around the country on it also every little bit on facebook now since they lost the game the last day nothing nothing thats why people dislike teams like this they shove everything into teams face when they win but go hiding when they lose you must show the good and bad sides when doing social media.

I dont understand how people can be this bitter! I am friends with Crokes Gaa on facebook and if you check their page (that has the team lining out for the national anthem for the UCC game as their profile pic and NOT any of the other pages titled Dr.Crokes or Dr.Crokes Gaa because they are pages set up that are not run through the club) and then you will notice how wrong you are! It gives clear updates and acknowledges that Crossmaglen deserved their win, also twitter account gave updates regularly and showed no bias whatsoever! The bottom line here is that crokes are a victim of their success and this is the only reason that some may dislike them!

On the game it was quite clear where the game was won, Crokes main performers in the forward line didnt turn up! Kieran, Colm and Brian Looney were off their game and Looney should have been taken off earlier for Brady, Looney backed out of 2 or 3 balls which should not be happening at this level! Jamie Doolan and Andrew Kenneally were their best performers in the forward line and this was rare considering the other forwards! I would have put Fionn on Jamie Clarke and moved Quinn to the wing where he played for a good part of the last few seasons but it is understandable why the lads on the line did not make this move as it would have disrupted the whole balance of the team especially with Buddy Leary already playing in the half back line! Brosnan has been outstanding all year and just seems to get better and better with age!

[truthseeker]

Feb 23, 2012 12:53:22 GMT swss said:

JUst there has crokes facebook and social media broke down because whern they won any match this year they had every paper report from around the country on it also every little bit on facebook now since they lost the game the last day nothing nothing thats why people dislike teams like this they shove everything into teams face when they win but go hiding when they lose you must show the good and bad sides when doing social media.

In the most pathetic quote of the year competition this entry will be hard bet!

[brigid]

On occasions the following is entered at the base of some comments
“Talent wins games. Teamwork and intelligence wins championships”.
There was little teamwork from Crokes. How do players spend their time training? I mentioned this previously but the Crokes half forwards and midfielders cannot tackle. As a result the Cross half backs and midfielders were PASSING the ball into their forwards. That put the Crokes backs under severe pressure and most comments are critical of the Crokes backs where it was further out the field that the problems were created.

On the other hand ALL the Cross forwards and midfielders were tackling the Crokes players with the result that most of the ball going into the Crokes forwards were clearances rather than passes.

Were the Crokes players as fit as they should be? They looked as if they were muscle bound rather than being athletic. On other forums comments stating that certain Crokes players were in line to compete for places on the Kerry team but sadly I didn’t see any players likely to make the break through.

I only saw the Crokes/Cross game on TV, but I was in Croke Park for the Inter game Milltown Castlemaine (MC) V Davitts and I must say that MC were far better prepared than Crokes. MC had teamwork, they got most of the breaking ball, they could tackle and because their half forwards were tackling, quite often one of the defenders played in front of his forward.

[bcb1]

No harm but and some of ye are being awful hard on Crokes. They played smashing football for 25 minutes and blew us off the park. The problem was the really needed to finish more chances than they did. They were put under immense pressure by our lads and to be honest our boys are in a place team many counties that many county teams do not achieve in terms of attitude and preperation. The Crokes are a fine team with some fine footballers and in Brosnan had the best player on the field. I think that tactically they were a small bit naive though and that is where they fell down. I would not blame the management because when you are on the sideline you need to make decision very quickly and I think that they should have made a few changes around the middle third early as Buckley and O'Donovan blew up and once that happened we simply owned the midfield. Anyway, they will be back and you never know maybe third time a charm?

[delorean]

The killer for Crokes was when they went in a half time only two points up. They had bossed 25 of the opening 30 minutes and looked anything but naive, unfit, etc. up until that point. It must have been a bit demoralising to be only two points up at that stage. They were playing a team that, given their experience, were never going to panic or question themselves. Cross, rejuvenated by their good fortune at only being two points down having hardly made an accurate pass all day, were always going to come strong after the break. Added to that, I think the wind was probably more difficult to play with as it didn't really effect scoring but seemed carry a lot of balls in over the end line, especially for Cross in the first half. There was also a blinding sun facing Cross, in particular, in the first half. Crokes only real 'spell' in the second half came when the heavy hail shower occured. At that point they got level and were up a man with roughly seven minutes remaining if memory serves. The game was anybodies at that stage and if the next score was anything but a Cross goal we could have been looking at a different result, as Crokes had their tails up at that stage. A game of two halves between two fairly evenly matched teams, but as always the winner takes all and the loser is left to face a lot of (probably undeserved) critisism. Very few are talking about how poor Cross were in the first half.

[rovingfullforward]

Feb 23, 2012 12:53:22 GMT swss said:

JUst there has crokes facebook and social media broke down because whern they won any match this year they had every paper report from around the country on it also every little bit on facebook now since they lost the game the last day nothing nothing thats why people dislike teams like this they shove everything into teams face when they win but go hiding when they lose you must show the good and bad sides when doing social media.

Your ignorance and sheer stupidity is astounding.