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Post by kerrystar on Apr 29, 2012 23:22:16 GMT
Two brutal games today in my opinion. God help us if this is what the championship is going to produce. Agreed. A depressing afternoon of viewing. If I were a Corkman I would be ashamed of this new 'physical' road their team is going down.
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Post by turenne on Apr 29, 2012 23:38:40 GMT
Two brutal games today in my opinion. God help us if this is what the championship is going to produce. If I were a Corkman I would be ashamed of this new 'physical' road their team is going down. What the hell are you yerras yerras blithering on about now. Complaining about a GAA team being too physical...? Good teams bully their opponents. Stick to the soccer or the cricket if you can't handle it old chap.
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Post by turenne on Apr 29, 2012 23:40:18 GMT
A Eoin Cadogan got plenty of physical attention today and didnt seem to like it one bit. He who lives by the sword......etc Oh for christ sake... I suppose ye couldn't leave the bitterness out, just congratulate your opponents and keep it moving? Ye weren't even playing today ffs and yet ye still spend your team whining about Cork. Obsessed.
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Post by kerrygold on Apr 29, 2012 23:48:58 GMT
Cork brought cynicism to a new low level today, looking good for the Munster championship. Probably one kerry wont be too bothered about this year. Cork are well ahead of teams now in terms of cynical play combined with in your face physical power and aggression.
Strange that neither captain could smile today on winning a National title, wheres the game going? are the people staying away?
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Post by Ard Mhacha on Apr 30, 2012 0:25:15 GMT
My God, that Cork team are hard to watch. It looked more like they were playing rugby at times. No wonder their fans didn't travel.
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Post by delorean on Apr 30, 2012 8:46:21 GMT
Eoin Cadogan got plenty of physical attention today and didnt seem to like it one bit. He who lives by the sword......etc Cadogan, in my opinion, was man of the match or close enough. Bar two terrible passes in the first half he cleaned up. If that's how he's going to react to the "physical attention" then long may it continue. I'm the first to admit that he could lose the macho nonsense and get on with the game but I do think you are bordering on obsessed at this stage. If I were a Corkman I would be ashamed of this new 'physical' road their team is going down I hardly got a wink of sleep last night with the mortification of it all. Those poor Mayo boys were black and blue after us. Yes, those same Mayo boys that were slated on here for being overly physical in the AI semi against ye a few months back.
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Post by sullyschoice on Apr 30, 2012 9:02:33 GMT
A Eoin Cadogan got plenty of physical attention today and didnt seem to like it one bit. He who lives by the sword......etc Oh for christ sake... I suppose ye couldn't leave the bitterness out, just congratulate your opponents and keep it moving? Ye weren't even playing today ffs and yet ye still spend your team whining about Cork. Obsessed. There is nothing in my original remark that I wont stand over. The look of indignation on his face when he got a belt was almost comical. Nowhere in my comment did I say that he didnt play well and I cant argue with the fact that he is a very talented young lad, but as I said, he got plenty of it yesterday and didnt like it one bit. Also saw Paul Kerrigan roaring in a Mayo fellas face when he had a free awarded against him. Not the usual reaction of Paul. Is this the new face of Cork football. It didnt work for Dublin a few years ago.
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Post by delorean on Apr 30, 2012 9:57:38 GMT
Are you for real Sully? We've been looking at macho nonsense from Darragh O'Sé and Aidan O'Mahony for years as well as constant mouthing from Declan O'Sullivan and Donaghy to be nice and name only two. Now your giving out about the "new face of Cork football" because of an isolated incident where Kerrigan roared at somebody. We might not play the most pure brand of football ever witnessed but we have an honest hard working side, and to be compared to that Dublin team from a few years back is an insult.
Yesterdays game was a terrible spectalcle, but was it ever going to be any different? Mayo are a well drilled side under James Horan. They swarmed all over Cork last August and we had no answer. It was inevitable that Cork were going to make sure they were ready for it this time and meet fire with fire.
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chrism
Senior Member
Posts: 460
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Post by chrism on Apr 30, 2012 10:34:40 GMT
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Post by glengael on Apr 30, 2012 10:50:09 GMT
Two brutal games today in my opinion. God help us if this is what the championship is going to produce. In both games there was constant fouling around the middle and surely something now needs to be done about this. Whatever happened to the 'must be an effort to play the ball' principle? Most of the fouling I saw on TV today was deliberate and cynical - it's ruining the game. I'm also sick to the teeth of this keep ball defensive play and surely the time has also come (and probably passed for this year) to ban the pass back to the goalie as was done in soccer years ago? I ask you where was the footballing skill and flair today? Our game is being destroyed by win at all costs mentality and the powers that be are letting it happen. Cork proved today that they are a brutally physical team with a very good full back line and a strong midfield. Tyrone looked disjointed and Kildare looked physically stronger and fitter. Mayo lost because Moran was kept quite. Hard to argue with any of that Tadgheen. It wasn't the best afternoons viewing I've ever had. On the basis of that performance , Cork have to move further up the ratings for the Championship. They';ve key players coming back from injury at the right time, a good defence + midfield and scoring forwards. As ever, Mayo failed to put in 2 "big" performances back to back.
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Post by delorean on Apr 30, 2012 10:51:50 GMT
Strange that neither captain could smile today on winning a National title, wheres the game going? Obviously Canty knows Cork aren't going to be judged on winning the league and they'll have bigger fish to fry in the summer. Kildare had already secured promotion, and although it was nice for them to collect some silverware, their priorities are also geared towards the summer. Even allowing for that these both look remarkably like smiles to me... www.sportsfile.com/id/615726/www.sportsfile.com/id/615687/
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Post by glengael on Apr 30, 2012 11:00:45 GMT
Strange that neither captain could smile today on winning a National title, wheres the game going? Obviously Canty knows Cork aren't going to be judged on winning the league and they'll have bigger fish to fry in the summer. Kildare had already secured promotion, and although it was nice for them to collect some silverware, their priorities are also geared towards the summer. Even allowing for that these both look remarkably like smiles to me... www.sportsfile.com/id/615726/www.sportsfile.com/id/615687/I'd class them as very measured smiles delorean. If I were trying to categorise such things.
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Post by kerrygold on Apr 30, 2012 11:02:06 GMT
Strange that neither captain could smile today on winning a National title, wheres the game going? Obviously Canty knows Cork aren't going to be judged on winning the league and they'll have bigger fish to fry in the summer. Kildare had already secured promotion, and although it was nice for them to collect some silverware, their priorities are also geared towards the summer. Even allowing for that these both look remarkably like smiles to me... www.sportsfile.com/id/615726/www.sportsfile.com/id/615687/Ya, that marginal movement of the lip is probably a laugh from Canty, apologies as I must have missed the lip flicker - TG4 would want to improve their camera angles!
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Post by delorean on Apr 30, 2012 11:15:58 GMT
I agree glengael, and measured smiles is exactly what I would have expected under the circumstances.
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Post by misteallaigh abú on Apr 30, 2012 11:58:11 GMT
Are you for real Sully? We've been looking at macho nonsense from Darragh O'Sé and Aidan O'Mahony for years as well as constant mouthing from Declan O'Sullivan and Donaghy to be nice and name only two. Now your giving out about the "new face of Cork football" because of an isolated incident where Kerrigan roared at somebody. We might not play the most pure brand of football ever witnessed but we have an honest hard working side, and to be compared to that Dublin team from a few years back is an insult. Yesterdays game was a terrible spectalcle, but was it ever going to be any different? Mayo are a well drilled side under James Horan. They swarmed all over Cork last August and we had no answer. It was inevitable that Cork were going to make sure they were ready for it this time and meet fire with fire. I think that the biggest issue that people have with Cadogan is that he can't take it when he receives the same treatment that he hands out. I do think that people are going overboard about the new physical Cork. From where I was sitting yesterday, Mayo were no shrinking violets either. Dónal Vaughan, Andy Moran, Colm Boyle to name but a few weren't afraid to get stuck in. There was a lot of stuff going on off the ball, both teams were equally culpable. Canty, Noel o Leary and Cadogan were constantly fouling off the ball, as was Shiels. He had a hold of his man's jersey for half the game. It was funny to watch Conor Mortimer running scared from Cadogan yesterday. He should have been taken off after 20mins as it was clear that he didn't fancy it yesterday.
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Post by mikelyster on Apr 30, 2012 12:47:34 GMT
I agree with misteallaigh about people going above board with regards Cork's new physical stance. Cork were always a physical team, the sheer size of their team guarantees that but I think we as Kerry fans forget how physical are own lads are. It is just the way the game has gone, it appears like you have to try and intimidate your man. If I watch a game of football now all I see is this macho stuff, no offence intended but it started in the Ulster Championship and every team does it now. Yes certain teams can be more physical then others but Kerry would be right up there with them. Tomas, Aidan, Galvin, Dec, Star and more can all throw themselves around.
However, I do feel Cadogan overdoes it altogether. He is a fine footballer but seems intent on doing the silly stuff which is a real shame. He will end up losing all respect from other GAA counties if he hasn't already.
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Post by Dermot on Apr 30, 2012 12:53:04 GMT
Fair play to Kildare, they deserved their win ... Actually happy for them at getting a bit of silverware !
We were not very good ... A lacking of ideas and thge flow from the previous games just wasnt there ... I'm hoping it was just a bad day rather than a measure of where we really are ... We'll not find that out for a few months yet.
Saying all that, its possibly a good thing that we were beaten as I'm not sure it would have been to our benefit to go into the Armagh game having the added pressure of winning all our games .. and also hopefully the management learned something yesterday so they can "hopefuly" put it right before that game.
So, stilll up in the air as far as we're concerned !!
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Post by kerrygold on Apr 30, 2012 12:55:01 GMT
It is important to make the distinction between physicality and cynicism and controlled aggression. Much of what Cork are about at the moment is plain cynical - fouling off the ball, mouthing, blocking the runner, pushing and shoving off the ball and the targeting of players. It just boils down to an unwatchable pile of crap. It will be interesting to see how it is viewed at official levels this summer.
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Post by delorean on Apr 30, 2012 13:05:14 GMT
Level headed and fair as always kerrygold, your contributions are always balanced so maybe we should take a long hard look at ourselves.
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Post by turenne on Apr 30, 2012 15:06:31 GMT
Are you for real Sully? We've been looking at macho nonsense from Darragh O'Sé and Aidan O'Mahony for years as well as constant mouthing from Declan O'Sullivan and Donaghy to be nice and name only two. Now your giving out about the "new face of Cork football" because of an isolated incident where Kerrigan roared at somebody. We might not play the most pure brand of football ever witnessed but we have an honest hard working side, and to be compared to that Dublin team from a few years back is an insult. You are wasting your time old chap. What you and I are witnessing over the last couple of pages are acts of self-delusion and confirmation bias against Cork Football borne out of years of prejudice and apparent jealousy over yesterday's result (god only knows why you would be jealous over a league final but there you go). Basically they have a self-fulfilling good vs evil dichotomy already created for themselves, which postulates that Kerry are the only pure footballing team, the only county that plays the game 'the way it should be played', while Cork represent everything that is wrong with the sport, cynicism and physicality in particular, as if these two things are great evils no good inter-county football team has ever partaken in. As Cork are the most physical and aggressive football team in the country, so physicality and aggression must be something 'wrong' and to blame for the sport's general malaise. Individual players are coloured as well - Aidan O'Mahony and the O'Se's aggression or 'sportsmanship' are really acts of masculinity or 'intelligence' - when Cadogan or Shields or O'Leary act in the same vein they are 'cowards', or even worse, they are betraying an entire sport. Interestingly, the only people that are complaining about Cork's performance on Sunday are the Kerry chaps on this forum - when talking about cynicism on Sunday invariably people talk about the diving of Vaughan and others - ignored completely on this forum one might add, evidently soccerball antics aren't as big a threat to the sport as being physical and aggressive. Even Brolly and Spillane gave us our dues. Unfortunately, some people have taken the reality of the one-eyed supporter to an even more absurd and bitter level. Such people aren't worth debating with.
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Post by buck02 on Apr 30, 2012 15:51:22 GMT
Conditions yesterday was more like a day in late November. The game was always going to be like it was.
And as one of our Cork friends suggested, after Mayo showing more hunger and passion last August in Croke Park, Counihan was going to make sure that it was the other way around this time out.
Cork are a strong, fast, physical team and they imposed those attributes on Mayo yesterday.
Eoin Cadogan is a good footballer but I just dont like him. There was a guy in our school whose father was high up in the Gardai and your man walked around the place and thought he could do what he liked. Reminds me of Cadogan.
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fg
Senior Member
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Post by fg on Apr 30, 2012 15:56:19 GMT
I wouldn't expect anything other then the verbal diarrhoea you have posted,it is clear here who suffers from an inferiority complex and an ever present suffering of the green eyed monster coupled with a hefty dose of paranoia.Get THIS,this is a kerry forum site and if you don't like it take a hike and you don't have to go far really you could post your pathetic predictable provocative bile in a site evidently more suitable for a cretin like you the gutter forum that is the peoples republic of cork forum,like minded people and all that you know old chap,theres a good fellow turenne.
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Jigz84
Fanatical Member
Posts: 2,017
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Post by Jigz84 on Apr 30, 2012 16:21:50 GMT
Kildare looked extremely fit in the last ten minutes yesterday, some going to kick over 7 unanswered points in fairness. I still doubt they can beat Dublin in a packed Croke Park with the pressure on though.
Main event was poor fare. Cork don't frighten me one bit. Still the same faces, nothing fresh or new.
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Post by turenne on Apr 30, 2012 17:07:19 GMT
Inferiority complex? FFS, of all the things to accuse a Corkman of having... ;D Cork don't frighten me one bit. Still the same faces, nothing fresh or new. Finally, a legit criticism. You are right, but its entirely down to the management's conservative ways rather then the talent coming through.
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Post by Annascaultilidie on Apr 30, 2012 17:26:30 GMT
I say fair play to Cadogan. If the whole country is against you then you must be doing something right. We know that better than most.
A Cork man might say: "I know he's a * but he's OUR *".
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Post by veteran on Apr 30, 2012 20:13:29 GMT
Kildare looked impressive for most of their game against Tyrone and finished very strongly. Clearly, they are going to be one of the fittest teams in the championship. If they can spare Johnny Doyle for the forward line and if this Padraig Fogarty is as good as he appears and if they can get all their injured players back, they should have a big say in this year's competition.
I expected more from Tyrone but still some of their younger lads showed promise. It looked to me that, perhaps, they needed more of the older hands on deck. I am not sure how many more of these, if any, will be available in the summer. Maybe Dermot could tell us.
Clearly, Cork came out in the second half and decided to more than match the intensity of Mayo. Cork had too many aces and in a short space of time they turned the game around. They looked to me to be more impressive than a lot of people are giving them credit for. They are more than a physically powerful team and with the return of Daniel Goulding and, presumably Ciaran Sheehan, they will be spoiled for choice in the forward line. I suppose there are some question marks about their defence but then every team, in every code, is lumbered with some weaknesses.
The placing of Aiden Walsh at full forward baffles me as much as the outfield placing of Kieran Donaghy. I just cannot see the logic in it. It's not that Cork lack choices for full forward- Doncha O'Connor, Colm O'Neill, Ciarn Sheehan. Indeed, with this new square rule, Nicholas Murphy could have a role to play in there before the year is out. In any case, I would have Aiden at midfield any day of the week before Pearse O'Neill. However, that is a matter for Cork.
Looking at the Cork/Mayo match on television, there appeared to be a serious level of nastiness peppering the game throughout. I wasn't aware that there was a hostile relationship between the teams, maybe it is an overhang from last year's Croke Park match. This brings me back to refereeing, inevitably. I have commented on this forum already about the epidemic of yellow cards I witnessed at the Kerry/Waterford u21 game and the Kerry/Limerick minor matches, two of the most harmless contests from a physical aspect one is likely to see. The point I am trying to make is that most referees seem to be unable to gauge the temperature of a match. It was clear from an early stage in those underage matches in Tralee that the contact between players was of a powder puff variety and merited no more than a cursory intervention by the referee. In contrast, yesterday, it seemed to me that the referee needed to officiate with a heavy hand because of the constant spattering of mean, sly offences and a red card or two may have made it a more civilised affair. For example the Graham Canty/Donal Vaughan wrestling match, whatever its origin, looked ugly at best and ,if my memory serves me as it should, it merely warranted a little talking to from the referee. That Donal Vaughan is a good footballer but there is a mean streak in him and Graham Canty can be, to put it mildly, impetuous at times. Speaking of Donal Vaughan, irrespective of what went on before or after, he got an unmerciful whack into the head when powering through on one occasion and very obviously was badly hurt, potentially a very serious injury. Now the nature of injury must have been obvious to everybody in the vicinity. Nevertheless, Noel O'Leary proceeded to drag Donal Vaughan from the ground as if he was feigning injury. While players often feign injury and deserve the "Noel O'Leary response", that was not the case yesterday and he should not have behaved in the manner in which he did.
Returning to Donal Vaughan. In last year's match against Kerry, he was making a run off the ball and was confronted by Anthony Maher who tried to block his run. Donal responded in the fashion I would recommend ,he gave Anthony a smack in the gob. If caught he could have been red carded but ,with a certain degree of justice , he got away with it. This blocking of players' runs off the ball is becoming more and more prevalent and is rarely picked up. It must be a huge source of frustration to players and is likely to lead to more and more flash points. The Donal Vaughan response is the correct one but of course it could be a very costly one.
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Post by diggerbarnes on Apr 30, 2012 21:27:40 GMT
Good analysis as usual Veteran but you neglected to give Cadogan credit for pushing Nollaig away from the stricken Vaughan. I presume the bile directed at Cadogan here is in response to his reaction to the unusual dental treatment he received from a certain Kerry player a few years ago. This is childish and churlish in the extreme and does no credit to the posters. Cadogan is a magnificient gaelic player. Always remember that he gave a MOTM performance against Tipp senior hurlers last week and will wear the No 6 jersey again next Sunday against Kilkenny. I think he deserves a lot of respect and I know that genuine Kerry GAA supporters admire talent such as Cadogan. That schoolyard stuff by a few posters here is sad and mods should delete such bile. imho
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Post by southward on Apr 30, 2012 21:59:19 GMT
It was blocking runs off the ball that led to the Galvin vs Notebook dust-up
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Post by kerrystar on Apr 30, 2012 22:52:24 GMT
It is important to make the distinction between physicality and cynicism and controlled aggression. Much of what Cork are about at the moment is plain cynical - fouling off the ball, mouthing, blocking the runner, pushing and shoving off the ball and the targeting of players. It just boils down to an unwatchable pile of crap. It will be interesting to see how it is viewed at official levels this summer. Agreed. I think there is a distinction to be made too between an individual player's cynicism and a team policy of cynicism. Kerry have been no angels in regards to individual cynicism, O'Mahony's dive in 2008 semi and Kennelly's elbow in 2009 final are just two examples, I'm sure the Cork posters could add others. But I think on all these occasions the players engaged in these acts of cynicism alone. There is little management can do about that. But it appeared that Cork went out on to the field with a pre-prepared policy to be cynical. Looked very much like they had been coached on this. I say this because so many players seemed to be acting out of character. Noel O'Leary has always come across as a hard but very fair player who abides by the rules of the game. His attempts to drag a clearly clobbered Donal Vaughan up off the ground do not fit with his sporting personality. Similarly, Paul Kerrigan appeared to undergo a personality makeoever, kicking the ball in to the stand at one point when Mayo had a sideline and goading the Mayo players at various intervals. Not like him in any way. There also seemed to be a policy of tackling high around the head,with the result that one or two punches to the face by Cork players, while tackling a Mayo man,went unpunished. Sour grapes,no. Cork deserved the win. But it's disappointing that Cork players and/or management feel they need to bring this mentality to the game in order to gain an extra edge. If Cork needed motivation for themselves they need only have watched their own display against Tyrone in the 2009 semi, their finest performance of recent years. kerrygold, you say 'at the moment'. Yesterday was a new departure for Cork and was the first time I have ever seen Cork playing with this cynical policy. But, as you say, if Cork do carry this co-ordinated cynicism through to the Kerry game on June 10, it will be an unwatchable pile of crap. Hopefully they won't.
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Post by kerrygold on May 1, 2012 9:23:55 GMT
Casey: Red card those who touch injured players By John Fogarty Tuesday, May 01, 2012 Top physiotherapist John Casey has called on the GAA to invoke a rule dismissing players who interfere with injured opponents. During the first half of Sunday’s Allianz Football League Division 1 final, Cork’s Noel O’Leary attempted to lift Mayo defender Donal Vaughan after he was tripped and his head and neck collided full force with Eoin Cadogan. Vaughan was flat out after the nasty impact but O’Leary seemingly believed he was feigning injury. Current Tipperary hurling and former Munster rugby physio Casey said such actions could result in a serious injury if done to a prone player. "It’s sneaking into the GAA more and more these past few years," said the Kilruane McDonaghs man. "What were initially verbals to the player on the ground has turned into physical contact before the medical people can ever look at the injured player. "A spinal injury could so easily have happened because the player’s (Vaughan) neck was hyper-extended when he ran into the opponent. The slightest unnecessary movement after that could have caused serious, serious injury. I know emotions are involved but it should be off limits to touch any player on the ground. It’s only a matter of time before something happens and we are faced with the consequences if action isn’t taken." Casey believes such incidents merit a red card. "Granted, a player might perceive another player to be feigning an injury but it’s not his position to make that call. "The rule should err on the side of caution. For everybody involved, it’s the only way because the consequences could be grave. "To interfere with an injured player should be a straight dismissal. It’s the only way to get the message out that the injured player can’t be touched. "It can’t be left to the referees’ discretion. It should be so black and white that it can’t be open to interpretation. "The referee can’t judge the severity of an injury and sometimes the medics can’t do it either. "That’s why they take precautions with neck braces and spinal boards. If the player is moved there could be untold damage done." In the Division 2 final on Sunday, the game was held up as Tyrone’s Aidan McCrory was put in a neck brace and placed on a spinal board as a precaution. The procedure took several minutes and resulted in the delay of the Division 1 decider but the medics had to be tentative with such a potential injury. Casey argues a red card would act as a warning to players about the consequences of such behaviour. "When you get two incidents like that on the same day, it underlines just how serious an issue this is," he insisted. Noel O’Leary mightn’t have seen the incident properly but I’d say he would be pretty remorseful if he watched the replay. "Generally speaking, it’s not just about protecting the player on the ground but also the player that touches him. The repercussions could be massive. "You would never be able to tell whether the initial contact or the interference afterwards caused the damage." Read more: www.irishexaminer.com/sport/gaa/football/casey-red-card-those-who-touch-injured-players-192418.html#ixzz1tblgStGO
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