|
Post by Dermot on May 30, 2006 14:41:09 GMT
1 Question. And be honest. How does it feel to get a taste of yer own medicine? TBH I was dismayed at the refs performance and Derrys approach but at the same time I'd have very little sympathy for ye. MacGuigan and Canavan are going to be huge losses for ye this year but I still think ye should get to the semi with relative ease. The standard in the country at the moment is bad so ye can cope without those two against most teams. Not sure I would describe it as "a taste of our own medicine" - Mostly our football is good to watch - That was horrible - Derry's forwards repeadly dragged and stopped our counter attacks - We don't do that ? Why the ref let them do it I don't know. BTW, I certainly wasn't expecting any sympathy.....especially from your good self I'm genuinely not too bothered about the result - Doesn't make a great deal of difference really. In general its too early to tell whether we can get over loosing Canavan and McGuigan - Time will tell ! I would certainly have been a lot more confident this time last year.
|
|
|
Post by kerrygold on May 30, 2006 14:42:47 GMT
Oh the utter horribleness of it all - What a sh1te game. Funny, I sorta though this would happen - more dissapointed with the spectacle than the result - I kinda think we play better in "last chance saloon" anyway. I think we'll crank it up a notch or two - Hope so anyway ! a bad day at the office dermot,did you know something we didnt,you voiced your concern at the end of last week.
|
|
|
Post by Dermot on May 30, 2006 14:50:07 GMT
Oh the utter horribleness of it all - What a sh1te game. Funny, I sorta though this would happen - more dissapointed with the spectacle than the result - I kinda think we play better in "last chance saloon" anyway. I think we'll crank it up a notch or two - Hope so anyway ! a bad day at the office dermot,did you know something we didnt,you voiced your concern at the end of last week. Nah, I suppose I know the influence that PTG had on the team and when you couple that with the loss of his & McGuigans talents it all points to a very much diminished unit. If you take your best 2 players out of any team in Ireland you obviously will suffer for it. I just hope we can get back on track but I'm not confident we can..... We'll all know better in a few weeks.
|
|
|
Post by northderrygael on May 30, 2006 16:33:26 GMT
Tyrone are without doubt good enough to be there or there abouts come Augest and September. They came up against a Derry side that could have beat almost anyone in Ireland. Combine that with the fact that Tyrone were missing top quality players. Tyrone will regroup, without doubt.
|
|
|
Post by austinstacksabu on May 30, 2006 17:19:39 GMT
Welcome back Dermot, and good to see you stuck your head in the door for some tae, biscuits and a chat as you made your way home.
I was talking to a work colleague of mine yesterday from your neck of the woods, and he had the same feeling as you. Saw it coming, was worried whether they could cope without so many natural leaders on and off the pitch whom this squad have relied on so much in recent years, (Canavan, McAnallen, McGuigan). Which is why I referenced Brian Doohers approach the last day, and his attitude at the end of the game. He has a huge role to play in the coming days. Mickey can only do so much.
I think ye might have a hard year ahead of ye but then again, the draw could throw up anybody for ye.
There was alot of chat here about different styles of play, and that the game was cynical etc. It was, and so were a number of Kerrys performances in the recent past too. Now, to be fair lads, sit down and watch the Limerick v Kerry game last year in Limerick and the year before in Limerick. Putrid, rotten, cynical rubbish. You had lads going down like sacks of spuds, you had Gooch doing sly off the ball belts just like Hub the last day. We're not free from sin and certainly can't cast the first stone.
Derry aren't normally that cynical, I've seen them play good open football too in the last two years. I saw their game against Limerick last year in Ballina, and while it wasn't vintage, it wasn't as dire as the fare on show last Sunday in Healy Park. Similarly their second half against Westmeath two years ago in the quarter final. They took what everybody, including Dermot and Bigmac, will accept is a tough, semi cynical (Ricey on his knees last year, McGeeney getting cramp every time he scratched his head in the past etc etc, holding onto the player when they tackle you etc) style of win at all costs play, and upped the ante. The result, they beat Tyrone by playing them at their own game x 2.
Anyway, thanks for calling in for the cuppa Der, make sure to take a slice of roll home with you, don't you be wake after the walk. Tough result for Tyrone, they weren't right on the day on or off the pitch.
|
|
RashersTierney
Senior Member
Ballymun is the North Kerry of Dublin,but quieter!
Posts: 369
|
Post by RashersTierney on May 30, 2006 22:16:57 GMT
Tom, you mean if Kerry havent won, it means the standard is very bad?
|
|
|
Post by FatTom on May 31, 2006 10:30:40 GMT
Tom, you mean if Kerry havent won, it means the standard is very bad? No I think the standard of football in the country at the moment is poor it has nothing to do with Kerry or the teams I just think most teams have huge flaws.
|
|
|
Post by FatTom on May 31, 2006 10:31:48 GMT
Welcome back Dermot, and good to see you stuck your head in the door for some tae, biscuits and a chat as you made your way home. I was talking to a work colleague of mine yesterday from your neck of the woods, and he had the same feeling as you. Saw it coming, was worried whether they could cope without so many natural leaders on and off the pitch whom this squad have relied on so much in recent years, (Canavan, McAnallen, McGuigan). Which is why I referenced Brian Doohers approach the last day, and his attitude at the end of the game. He has a huge role to play in the coming days. Mickey can only do so much. I think ye might have a hard year ahead of ye but then again, the draw could throw up anybody for ye. There was alot of chat here about different styles of play, and that the game was cynical etc. It was, and so were a number of Kerrys performances in the recent past too. Now, to be fair lads, sit down and watch the Limerick v Kerry game last year in Limerick and the year before in Limerick. Putrid, rotten, cynical rubbish. You had lads going down like sacks of spuds, you had Gooch doing sly off the ball belts just like Hub the last day. We're not free from sin and certainly can't cast the first stone. Derry aren't normally that cynical, I've seen them play good open football too in the last two years. I saw their game against Limerick last year in Ballina, and while it wasn't vintage, it wasn't as dire as the fare on show last Sunday in Healy Park. Similarly their second half against Westmeath two years ago in the quarter final. They took what everybody, including Dermot and Bigmac, will accept is a tough, semi cynical (Ricey on his knees last year, McGeeney getting cramp every time he scratched his head in the past etc etc, holding onto the player when they tackle you etc) style of win at all costs play, and upped the ante. The result, they beat Tyrone by playing them at their own game x 2. Anyway, thanks for calling in for the cuppa Der, make sure to take a slice of roll home with you, don't you be wake after the walk. Tough result for Tyrone, they weren't right on the day on or off the pitch. In defence of Gooch and other corner forwards they get very little protection from the linesmen and they have to fight back at this stage and add that edge to their game.
|
|
bmackerry
Full Member
"Take em on Bros"
Posts: 156
|
Post by bmackerry on May 31, 2006 15:31:46 GMT
Any news on the Cavanagh injury Bigmac???
Looked pretty bad.
|
|
BIGMAC
Fanatical Member
not dead only sleeping
Posts: 1,247
|
Post by BIGMAC on May 31, 2006 15:37:40 GMT
Any news on the Cavanagh injury Bigmac??? Looked pretty bad. he got a concussion but will be fit to play in the first round of the prelims
|
|
RashersTierney
Senior Member
Ballymun is the North Kerry of Dublin,but quieter!
Posts: 369
|
Post by RashersTierney on May 31, 2006 20:00:03 GMT
Tom, I'd agree so far this year its been very flat, but why should the standard be any worse than last year, as the summer unfolds? And I thought last year was a very high standard, the best in years
|
|
|
Post by outsider23 on Jun 1, 2006 7:12:02 GMT
Well said, KerryNorth!!
Kerry are as cynical as any Northern team going. The treatment Seamus dished out to Corkery in 2002 AI semi-final was worse than anything Gooch has ever been on the end of..
At least Moynihan got his comeuppance against the rookie Clarke in the final the same year..
|
|
|
Post by FatTom on Jun 1, 2006 8:03:00 GMT
I've nothing against a few digs, it is a physical game after all but if Kerry engaged in defensive attitude, time wasting, cynical fouling I would rather see us lose to encourage a return to our natural game- we have won 33 All Irelands playing it after all. We're no angels FatTom, so mind yourself up there on the high ground - cos there could be a long fall during the summer! I won't be joining you, - unfortunately we'll have to adopt a defensive attitude and play some ugly football to capture 34, so be ready! e.g. in which catergory does our treatment of Anthony Lynch during last year's semi-final fall for you?? if Cork broke up the field, either Brossie or Dec were there to literally hold him back from attacking, & when brossie eventually got booked after 30mins, dec then upped his input. - All off the ball, plenty jersey pulling etc. cynical? never. did I say we weren't cynical - No! What I said was I would hate to see Kerry players diving, time wasting and kicking the ball away. Corkery gave as good as he got that day on Moyno. One jersey pulling incident. If my memory serves me correctly Moyno marked Corkery from the front that day so he wouldn't be caught out. So how can he pull his jersey etc if he is marking him from the front. Every team has its degree of cynical nature. Do you think Cork weren't trying to stop Tom Se's and Moynos bursts up the pitch too. We annihilated them in both games displaying a great degree of football skill.
|
|
|
Post by kerrygold on Jun 1, 2006 8:41:57 GMT
if kerry are the dirty negitive cynical knackers on a football pitch that some of ye claim,then why after gearing up to play a defensive game all summer to play a northern team in the latter stages of the championship,did kerry go out and play free flowing attacking attractive football against mayo in the 2004 all-ireland final?.Can anyone answer that one for me?.
|
|
BIGMAC
Fanatical Member
not dead only sleeping
Posts: 1,247
|
Post by BIGMAC on Jun 1, 2006 9:41:17 GMT
Blond Bomber Vaughan's selection still a gamble Thursday June 1st 2006 ADVERTISEMENT
But Dublin ace starts to wise up
IT may be one of those urban myths that have drawn sustenance from the telling but it paints a picture nonetheless commensurate with a background that had little room for Gaelic football until recently.
At some point a flashpoint in last year's league fixture between Dublin and Kerry developed and cooled off quickly with Mark Vaughan and Seamus Moynihan squaring up to each other in the maelstrom.
Afterwards, some of Vaughan's more experienced Dublin colleagues mentioned his stand-off with one of the greatest footballers of his generation. In response Vaughan is alleged to have inquired which Kerry player his colleague was referring to!
The myth has travelled far but it does offer a perspective nonetheless. Up to five years ago Vaughan's only flirtation with GAA was a year at Cuala with the U-16s.
Insulated
After that it was a life of rugby, soccer and 'Rock well insulated from Moynihan and his contemporary greats. His knowledge of GAA isn't likely to extend much beyond what's in front of him. If an Irish version of 'A Question of Sport' ever resurfaces you wouldn't bank on him getting too many 'home' questions.
Only by chance did he wander down to Glenalbyn one day and resume a sporting career with Kilmacud Crokes that looked to be headed elsewhere.
From the moment he first surfaced with the Dublin minors in 2003, complete with blue strip down the back of his head, there has always been a touch of celebrity about Vaughan. He's the young Dublin footballer that has been saved. A Killiney-reared, Blackrock educated, former Irish U-19 soccer trialist with bleached blond hair who might not have known Moynihan, now playing championship Gaelic football for Dublin!
Having only taken up the game again at 15 the more football Vaughan sees and plays the more he will improve. But he's far from the finished article and by naming him on a championship team for only the second time, it was a leap of faith by the management, an investment in what he can do rather than cashing in on what he has done already.
There's no doubt that all the flamboyance can lead to something tangible in blue this year but Vaughan still represents a gamble they have to take.
His profile suggests he's been around for a lot longer and has been a lot busier with Dublin but he hasn't. In fact when he completed Dublin's recent league match against Mayo it was the first time he had played a full competitive 70 minutes for the county.
The learning curve remains a steep one and last year essentially flashed past him.
From being thrust into the action against Meath and driving over two crucial free-kicks in the last quarter to his virtual anonymity against Wexford and then that brief appearance against Tyrone in the second game when the dust had settled and he had Ryan McMenamin for company the summer of 2005 gave Mark Vaughan quite an overview of what he has to do.
"I'm still young enough with time to come through but I'm only maturing," says Vaughan. "That takes time. In that first year with Dublin there was more frustration with suspensions but I've been coping with it better, enjoying more. Even going training is more enjoyable. Maybe I had the wrong outlook to it (training) last year. But everything is more familiar now and I'm enjoying it."
Vaughan' name was indelibly linked with the DRA ruling that cast a shadow over last year's Dublin championship.
It's not something he got involved because he never felt he could understand the nuances of a GAA rulebook anyway.
"I only saw the booklet. I didn't want to take a look at it because it was too big. It was a bit of a joke. It was the GAA's own fault rather than anyone else's. It didn't affect us too much because we ended up with a decent enough season."
Short fuse
But the suspensions only serve as a reminder of his short fuse. His sending-off against Salthill in the All-Ireland semi-final seemed so pointless and allegedly led to frank confrontation with the management over the direction his game was taking. Since the spring, and that alleged 'dressing down' the rate of maturity has accelerated but the question mark over temperament remains.
It's something he understands he'll have to deal with. "The management haven't really said anything. I know myself I have to cop on. I know there'll be guys going out to put me off, I'm just going to have to cope with it, you can't really do too much to stop it. I've had enough of these things (suspensions) at this stage. Hopefully there won't be any more. I was gutted going off (against Salthill) I knew that even if we did win I wasn't going to be playing in an All-Ireland final. You can't do what I did so you have to look back and learn from your mistakes."
The championship season ahead offers him a further education. "It was tough to adjust initially. There's a different pressure than club where the pressure is to score looking to be top scorer and help the team out that way. Playing with Dublin the pressure has been to keep my place for the next day. It's a different pressure on you. You're anxious to do a lot.
"Against Wexford (in last year's semi-final) I was over enthusiastic - I tried to get into too much. I think I struggled with the pace so I know I have to be more patient."
He knows the pitfalls of a trip to Longford but appreciates that after having Tyrone on the rack last year they have to be measuring up to a potential All-Ireland. His natural confidence wouldn't allow him to say otherwise.
"After seeing Tyrone winning it we must be in with a realistic chance, but the way it is at the moment we have to beat Longford."
He goes back to the scene of his last sending off on Sunday, Pearse Park in Longford where he was red carded against Salthill.
A more hostile environment awaits him and his Dublin colleagues but it should also reveal if his level of maturity is advancing.
Dublin will hope that it has. They need it to.
Colm Keys
|
|
|
Post by FatTom on Jun 1, 2006 10:01:31 GMT
I don't think Kerry have ever engaged in a defensive attitude. Not like some other teams we have seen. You need to be strong defensively and attacking wise. But you'd never see us try and so what Derry did the last day and what Galway engaged in in the league final. I don't ever remember Kerry being criticised for their style of play outside of Billy Morgan.
|
|
|
Post by kerrygold on Jun 1, 2006 10:15:35 GMT
I'm in agreement with tom on this one,if kerry went down the road that derry took last sunday in omagh,i would have no interest in seeing them competing in croker on the 4th sunday in september either.
|
|
animal
Fanatical Member
Posts: 1,931
|
Post by animal on Jun 1, 2006 11:24:13 GMT
KERRYGOLD, don't worry about seeing Kerry playing on 4th Sunday in September. Its not going to happen. The final is scheduled for 17th Sept. Bit pedantic I know.....
|
|
|
Post by kerrygold on Jun 1, 2006 12:17:40 GMT
KERRYGOLD, don't worry about seeing Kerry playing on 4th Sunday in September. Its not going to happen. The final is scheduled for 17th Sept. Bit pedantic I know..... i'm well aware of that animal,i wasn't referring to any 4th sunday in september in particular.
|
|
|
Post by derryfan on Jun 1, 2006 12:18:26 GMT
Derry to beat Kerry in the quarter final, closer than yous boys my think!
|
|
|
Post by Attacking Wing Back on Jun 1, 2006 12:26:26 GMT
I think your dreaming derryfan...You jave towo forwards that are fairly handy..The kerry defence will be more than amatch fot them.. Anyway by the time ye get to croke park there will be an outcry about your foul play and cheating antics so the refs will will be warned about ya.
|
|
|
Post by kerrygold on Jun 1, 2006 12:29:12 GMT
The old people in kerry had a great saying in times of old gone by. They used to say,"never eat the blackberriers of the briars after september because the fairies would have pissed on them and they wouldn't be "right"," Obviously blackberries are not the only thing fairies piss on after september and render them not "right".
if their is any poster from the gaeltacht using this forum,is there any chance you could translate the above pisseog into irish for me.thanks.
|
|
|
Post by outsider23 on Jun 2, 2006 13:23:07 GMT
Lads,
I only watched last year's AI final live (never watched it a second time) but to me there was very little overly defensive play from Tyrone in that match. I remember it being quite an open game of football with some fantastic football being played by both teams. I think a lot of people hear are being overly harsh on Tyrone's general play.
Yes, people will talk about that game with 'puke football' but that gameplan worked perfectly for that particular match. You must give credit to the management for coming up with that gameplan.. it rattled Kerry to the core but they learned from it, toughened up and won Sam in 2004. Tyrone can change their style of play depending on opponents, situation etc. so credit must be given for that..
Tyrone in full flow are an absolute joy to watch with McGuigan, O'Neill, Mulligan, McMenamin, Jordan etc. etc. are all really skilful footballers..
So in conclusion, give the O'Neill County a chance..
|
|
|
Post by kerrygold on Jun 2, 2006 16:56:39 GMT
ye should be ok v longford rashers,win 6 or 7 points,same for laoise v carlow,i cant an other outcome other than dublin v laois semi. down and donegal could be close hard to call a winner in that one. tipp v waterford in hurling,i suppose a tipp cork munster final would be special with cork going for the 3 in a row and babbs back at the helm with tipp,could be another close tipp waterford game.
|
|
RashersTierney
Senior Member
Ballymun is the North Kerry of Dublin,but quieter!
Posts: 369
|
Post by RashersTierney on Jun 3, 2006 6:23:48 GMT
Agreed Kerrygold, except I think Carlow will be close to Laois. Its D-Day (literally!) for Down and Donegal, if Down are to do anything this year, they need to be able to win this, and if Donegal are ever going to do anything, the same thing goes. Recipe for dogged battle, but maybe they willl try to make amends for last sunday's debacle.............I'm off to tropical Longford, hope its a scorcher down southwest way, I've been to the Listowel Writers' Fest a couple of times this weekend, great part of the world.
|
|
|
Post by austinstacksabu on Jun 3, 2006 13:37:45 GMT
Away this weekend so missing the Donegal v Down game. Have backed Down to win Ulster as you all know.....
Dermot, you say that McIver is a cute manager? It's his first championship match. How cute can you be?
|
|
|
Post by kerrygold on Jun 4, 2006 13:13:05 GMT
tipp are after scoring a goal. 1-01 to no score,i'm off to watch the small ball.
|
|
|
Post by Cornelius on Jun 4, 2006 16:45:48 GMT
good game there between down and donegal..donegal the winners by a solitary point!
|
|
|
Post by kerrygold on Jun 4, 2006 17:25:20 GMT
ya, a "kacks"- ling good win for donegal ;D ,only a point in it but donegal were by far the better team,one of irelands full time footballer was fairly quite.you might not be too far out about donegal dermot,they should give ulster a fair crack now.
it would seem that dublin failed to make a statment of intent to-day at a time when all the big guns are struggling to find form,what was your take on dublins form rashers?.
|
|
RashersTierney
Senior Member
Ballymun is the North Kerry of Dublin,but quieter!
Posts: 369
|
Post by RashersTierney on Jun 4, 2006 20:33:28 GMT
Jaysus, nearly wasnt going to be able to show my grizzled old mush here! Longford could have snatched it, and nobody could have begrudged them, they deserved at least a draw! What can I say, yet again lack of leadership and frailties all over the field, but especially up front. All my fears came to pass - Brogan has gone flat. Madser Vaughan is easily frustrated (except for one Santy Claus of a goal, albeit he took it well). I always felt it would be better for him to be sub today, on from the start against Laois as he's very much a big-game mentality, he was on hiding to nothing today, and his confidence will have been knocked by that game. Quinn is limited. Midfield in trouble. Backs at sixes and sevens. Overall the verdict remains very much, not enough quality or leadership to be consistently good. Concentration also seems a problem, or keeping the focus. Scoring 1-13 against Longford on a perfect day for football, not really good enough. Thank God for Keaney, hurling's loss is our saving grace. Fair dues to Longford, they ahd a good Under-21 team last couple of years, they showed great pride today, played some good stuff. At least we got our hard game preparation for Laois! Two big things must happen for us to have chance to beat Laois and go on to Leinster - Paddy Christie has to come back, if he's fit. Cahill to CHB. Cullen has to go to half back from half forward. Bring back Deccy Lally, who did well as sub today. I expected Carlow to do alot better today, does that mean Laois are flying? Its going to be one hell of a task for Dublin. Impressed with Donegal, another new manager McIver has the magic touch. Fermanagh-Donegal final for me!
|
|