thepope
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Posts: 1,285
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Post by thepope on Feb 20, 2010 14:16:36 GMT
tommy has the chance to earn up to $200,000(Aus) or more if he manages to reach the top of the AFL. why wouldn't he give it a go? a chance to secure his life, and considering how things are going in this country, not surprising he went.
tommy was very popular amongst kerry supporters, but i don't think a lack of encouragement led to his departure, simply a chance at something he could never have in ireland
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Post by kerrygold on Feb 20, 2010 14:18:34 GMT
So Tommy might have turned down a chance to emulate Tadhg if we appreciated him more and encouraged him to stay. Maybe you are right but I have my doubts to be honest. We all view the world differently and various aspects of it to different levels of fanaticism, values, respect etc. Often its inspiring people in a given place at a given time that can make a big difference as to how outcomes are shaped. Theres was interesting piece on radio one yesterday in interview with Francois Pienaar where he spoke about Nelson Mandela unexpectedly coming into the South African dressing room, wearing a South African Jersey, to speak to the players before the world cup final. Pienaar described it as a hugely powerful moment and even more so as when Mandela turned his back to leave he was waring Pienaars no. 5 shirt. Its often about what we say to people thats important and what makes the difference and influences their mindsets. Its my opinion that we didn't do enough to hold a young blue chip talent in our game, but I don't expect everyone to respect/agree with my opinion on the matter. Anyway the genie has left the bottle now. |
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Post by patinkerry on Feb 22, 2010 12:41:02 GMT
Kennelly and Walsh to meet
TADHG KENNELLY’S Sydney Swans claimed their first NAB Cup game in eight years, beating Setanta Ó hAilpín’s Carlton by 12 points at the AFL’s newest venue in the heart of its newest territory – western Sydney.
A new-look Swans outfit – with Kennelly showing why the Swans were so anxious to re-sign him – led at every break, winning 2.7.11 (71) to 0.8.11 (59). Former Cork hurler Ó hAilpín did not line out for Carlton.
The ground withstood its AFL debut but did not escape teething problems. A blast from a passing train was mistaken by umpires for the quarter-time siren.
After some red faces and a few moments of confusion, the game resumed until the real quarter-time siren, which was greeted with ironic cheers by the crowd.
Kennelly will now come face-to-face with former Kerry team-mate Tommy Walsh next Saturday in the second round, after St Kilda had a one-point – 2.13.4 (100) to 1.13.12 (99) – victory over Collingwood in their round one NAB Cup clash – a pre-season competition – thanks to a last-minute goal at Etihad Stadium.
Meanwhile, midfielder Stephen Murray scored six second-half points and was inspirational as Tipperary pipped Kilkenny, 2-13 to 1-13, in a thrilling Vocational Schools All-Ireland senior hurling final at Semple Stadium on Saturday.
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Post by Seoirse Ui Duic on Feb 22, 2010 13:02:33 GMT
did Walsh play in the Saints win over Collingwood?
He was selected for the clash but I can't find anywhere if he played and if, how he did.
It would be a huge achievement anyway if he already made the team after just a few months.
David Armitage
Jason Blake
Zac Dawson
Leigh Fisher
Sam Fisher
Steven Gaertner
Jarryn Geary
Sam Gilbert
Brendon Goddard
James Gwilt
Nick Heyne
Will Johnson
Clint Jones
Steven King
Justin Koschitzke
Ben McEvoy
Andrew McQualter
Luke Miles
Stephen Milne
Leigh Montagna
Brett Peake
Farren Ray
Nick Riewoldt
Adam Schneider
Alistair Smith
Rhys Stanley
Jack Steven
Tommy Walsh
Paul Cahill
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Post by mickthebridges on Feb 22, 2010 22:45:56 GMT
Just wondering if Paul is suspended would he get a job with Tadg in the Swans team. He'd be mighty good at the rough and tumble of the Aussie game but himself and Tadg might come up with a few good ideas to stop the other crowd. Just a thought.
He'd be a fierce loss altogether to Kerry if he went down under.
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Post by Seoirse Ui Duic on Feb 23, 2010 10:26:32 GMT
I think Paul does not have the physique for AFL, he'd need to buff up a lot which is something Tommy will need to do as well. AFL players are almost like fast rugby union players. They need to be tough and fast. Galvin is fast and agile but not a huge bundle of muscles like Paul O'Connell. Also, Galvin has a football mind and I'd think at his age it would be hard to adapt. Even Tommy went fairly late. It's not an easy task adapting to a different sport when you've been playing a similar one all your life. Even harder when they're as similar as GAA and AFL.
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Post by nicoshea on Feb 23, 2010 21:40:30 GMT
Just wondering if Paul is suspended would he get a job with Tadg in the Swans team. He'd be mighty good at the rough and tumble of the Aussie game but himself and Tadg might come up with a few good ideas to stop the other crowd. Just a thought. He'd be a fierce loss altogether to Kerry if he went down under. Why aalking are we talking about Galvin been suspended and going to Oz.... If Galvin is suspended it wont be for more than 8 weeks.... |
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Post by mickthebridges on Feb 23, 2010 22:05:56 GMT
I think Paul does not have the physique for AFL, he'd need to buff up a lot which is something Tommy will need to do as well. AFL players are almost like fast rugby union players. They need to be tough and fast. Galvin is fast and agile but not a huge bundle of muscles like Paul O'Connell. Also, Galvin has a football mind and I'd think at his age it would be hard to adapt. Even Tommy went fairly late. It's not an easy task adapting to a different sport when you've been playing a similar one all your life. Even harder when they're as similar as GAA and AFL. I'd agree with you there Mr Fleming but if Paul took a few of them growing tablets he might be tall enough in a year or two. I heard that a lot of them Ostralian lads take tablets for length.  |
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Post by nicoshea on Feb 23, 2010 22:09:59 GMT
Seriously.... This is how rumours get started
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Post by Seoirse Ui Duic on Feb 23, 2010 22:21:17 GMT
I think Paul does not have the physique for AFL, he'd need to buff up a lot which is something Tommy will need to do as well. AFL players are almost like fast rugby union players. They need to be tough and fast. Galvin is fast and agile but not a huge bundle of muscles like Paul O'Connell. Also, Galvin has a football mind and I'd think at his age it would be hard to adapt. Even Tommy went fairly late. It's not an easy task adapting to a different sport when you've been playing a similar one all your life. Even harder when they're as similar as GAA and AFL. I'd agree with you there Mr Fleming but if Paul took a few of them growing tablets he might be tall enough in a year or two. I heard that a lot of them Ostralian lads take tablets for length. are those the pills I get offered by emails in my spam inbox telling me I can get extra length which "she" will like?  |
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Post by austinstacksabu on Feb 23, 2010 23:02:14 GMT
Mick, suggest you move quietly into the mist of times before the season kicks into high gear.
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Post by mickthebridges on Feb 24, 2010 23:03:21 GMT
Mick, suggest you move quietly into the mist of times before the season kicks into high gear. Chill out Stacks, I aint goin nowhere. Keep takin the tablets.  |
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Post by kerrygold on Feb 25, 2010 8:48:52 GMT
Walsh: big brother will bide his time in Oz By Paul Keane Thursday, February 25, 2010 BARRY JOHN WALSH has revealed that big brother Tommy isn’t pinning his hopes on becoming an instant Aussie Rules hit with St Kilda. Tommy was overlooked for his first slice of competitive action last weekend in the AFL’s pre-season NAB Cup. But the club’s one point win over Collingwood means he has another possibility of a first hit-out in the Saints’ colours this weekend. They play the Sydney Swans and any taste of action would intriguingly pit Tommy against his former Kerry colleague Tadhg Kennelly. Between them, they scored six of the Kingdom’s points in last September’s All-Ireland final win over Cork. But Kennelly’s subsequent return to the club he won an AFL title with in 2005 and Walsh’s departure for a new life in Melbourne means they’re now very much on opposing sides. Barry John says that, in reality, Tommy still has a huge amount to learn about the oval ball game and is more likely to view Kennelly as a role model than an adversary. "Tommy wasn’t in the squad for last week’s game so hopefully he might get into it this week and it’ll be interesting to see if they come against each other," said rising Kerry star Barry John. "It’s only a friendly competition and Tommy is still a long way off playing the AFL games. "It’s a very high standard. He’s still a long way off fitness and the skill level but he knew himself going over that it was going to be very difficult. It’s more of a long-term thing than trying to get (into the team) in the short-term." Kennelly never hid his desire to return to play for Kerry after leaving for his first spell with the Swans. He was as good his word, coming back last year to inspire their unlikely All-Ireland success and, inevitably, fans are wondering if Tommy has built a comeback into his long-term plans. "I don’t know to be completely honest," said Barry John. "When he went over he only signed a two year contract so he won’t look past that. He’s going to take the two years as it is and see how he goes and we’ll see after that. He’ll make his mind up after the two years." For all of the local talk about Tommy – nicknamed ‘Ivan’ by the Saints because of his likeness to Dolph Lundgren’s muscular Rocky IV character Ivan Drago – making a first team mark early on in 2010, the likelihood is that he’ll have to bide his time. "There was an A versus B game last week, he found the pace of it difficult and he found the skills hard so it’s very hard to tell," said Barry John. "He’s very new to the game, he hasn’t found a position yet. They’re playing him in a variety of positions to try and find one that suits him. Only time will tell." In the meantime, Kerry will seek to move on without the big man. He isn’t, of course, the only significant withdrawal from the 2009 panel with Kennelly, Darragh O Sé and Diarmuid Murphy all apparently playing their last game at Croke Park in September. Despite featuring in losses so far this season the powerful corner-forward clipped 1-1 against Dublin and shot a point against Cork. "Hopefully now (I can break through)," said Barry John. "I think Jack O’Connor is going to give everyone a fair chance and hopefully when my chance comes along I can take it." Does it add extra pressure that people will expect the little brother to fill the big brother’s shoes? "It’s not something I’d really consider. I’ll just to perform on my own merits." This story appeared in the printed version of the Irish Examiner Thursday, February 25, 2010 Read more: www.irishexaminer.com/sport/gaa/walsh-big-brother-will-bide-his-time-in-oz-113038.html#ixzz0gXGLcy7c |
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Post by kerrygold on Feb 26, 2010 9:55:33 GMT
Walsh fails to make panel By Daragh O Conchúir Friday, February 26, 2010 TOMMY WALSH has failed to make the St Kilda panel for tomorrow’s second round NAB Cup game against Sydney Swans. There had been some anticipation about a potential clash of the Kerry All-Ireland-winning team-mates, with Tadhg Kennelly lining out for the Swans. But Walsh has struggled with the pace and skills of Aussie Rules, so coach Ross Lyon has decided not to expose him to first team football just yet. Walsh was actually named in the extended panel for last week’s first round, and Lyon indicated that his rookie would get some game time from the bench. That didn’t happen though with Lyon concluding that Walsh is not ready for that level, and is more of a long-term project. There is better news for Pearce Hanley, who has been named in the Brisbane squad for the clash with Setanta O hAilpín’s Carlton. The Ballaghaderreen native is now in his third season with the Lions and is looking to establish a regular first-team place under coach, Michael Voss, who was captain of the Australian international rules squad that toured Ireland in 2006. Michael Quinn, who made his AFL debut last season within weeks of playing his first game of Aussie Rules, is not in the Essendon squad. The Longford prospect missed some pre-season training when he returned to Ireland due to a family bereavement and is not yet ready for the fray. This story appeared in the printed version of the Irish Examiner Friday, February 26, 2010 more info » Read more: www.examiner.ie/sport/gaa/walsh-fails-to-make-panel-113105.html#ixzz0gdNBqZ7J |
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Post by kerrygold on Mar 5, 2010 8:43:41 GMT
The Irish Times - Friday, March 5, 2010Gilroy believes Ireland can keep players from AFL
Dublin manager Pat Gilroy says the AFL holds risks for players. DUBLIN SENIOR football manager Pat Gilroy declined to get drawn into any further debate with Australian Rules agent Ricky Nixon yesterday, but was happy to outline his own view of what the drive to recruit GAA players to Australia really amounted too, writes TOM HUMPHRIES
Four Dublin players – James McCarthy, Rory O’Carroll, Cian O’Sullivan and Paddy Andrews – withdrew from Wednesday trial sessions held in Gormanstown, prompting a sharp response from Nixon.
“You can’t dictate people’s lives. I am led to believe he called his players last night (Tuesday) and threatened that they would not play at the weekend if they came to the trial. I am not going to stop a player from playing county football, it doesn’t make a difference to our recruitment – we will still recruit the players. So what he is doing is ridiculous and he is just making a fool of himself.”
Gilroy pointed out that nobody had asked permission to attend the trials and nobody was told not to go.
“If fellas went and trained for four hours we couldn’t consider them for the weekend when everyone else is resting. We have no college activity and no club activity this week.
“You do what you do with us and make your own decisions after that. I’m not going to lose any sleep over how it is construed.”
Gilroy declined to respond directly to Nixon’s less temperate comments but was happy to outline his own view of the cottage industry which recruitment has become.
“From here in with regard to this issue and this guy we are just going to let sleeping dogs lie. Personally, I don’t know how attractive the thing is anymore. The amount of traffic there is coming back and the opportunities there are in Ireland have begun to tip things, I think.
“Things are changing, especially with the way the GPA have done stuff in terms of scholarships. There is a huge attraction to staying here now while you are in college. If you have a career already then it is an even bigger big risk. I think the whole GPA thing has made staying a lot more attractive.
“A fella with a degree who qualifies will be on the same money very quick as he would have made in Australia, plus he will have a very good sporting career while his own work career is developing.”
Gilroy concedes the attractiveness of warm weather and the chance to be a full-time sportsperson but, while Australia will always be sunny, there are no guarantees about the longevity or success of a career Down Under.
Players coming back have several pieces to pick up. Gilroy who won an All-Ireland club football medal two years ago with St Vincent’s, feels the ties that bind have been undersold.
“The GAA and the GPA coming together and the entire jobs initiative I think it is starting to tip things back in favour of Ireland. You have a career and have this improving support mechanism coming from the GAA and GPA.
“You can play and you can work on a career which will sustain you for the rest of your life. You train and play in a place and a tradition that you know. You are with the people you grew up with and have the prospect of winning something in that tradition without the upheaval of going to the other end of the world.
“If you go away for a few years and don’t make it – and being honest, not many do make it – you come back and you are behind, you have missed out on career opportunities and you have missed out on all the profile that you might have taken advantage of in Ireland. That would just be my view. We have more to offer than we give ourselves credit for.”
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Post by kerrygold on Mar 5, 2010 8:49:09 GMT
Good man Pat, well said.
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animal
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Post by animal on Mar 5, 2010 11:55:26 GMT
The Irish Times - Friday, March 5, 2010Gilroy believes Ireland can keep players from AFL “If you go away for a few years and don’t make it – and being honest, not many do make it – you come back and you are behind, you have missed out on career opportunities and you have missed out on all the profile that you might have taken advantage of in Ireland. That would just be my view. We have more to offer than we give ourselves credit for.” I see where Pat is coming from but I'd love to know where these career opportunities are that he's referring to. It doesn't quite match with what's happening in the real world. It would seem that the day of the inter-county player being guaranteed a job is no more. I can see why Oz would appeal to a young fella even if the chance of success is low. It beats kicking your heels in Ballygobackwards for 2 years. |
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Post by kerrygold on Mar 5, 2010 12:12:46 GMT
The Irish Times - Friday, March 5, 2010Gilroy believes Ireland can keep players from AFL “If you go away for a few years and don’t make it – and being honest, not many do make it – you come back and you are behind, you have missed out on career opportunities and you have missed out on all the profile that you might have taken advantage of in Ireland. That would just be my view. We have more to offer than we give ourselves credit for.” I see where Pat is coming from but I'd love to know where these career opportunities are that he's referring to. It doesn't quite match with what's happening in the real world. It would seem that the day of the inter-county player being guaranteed a job is no more. I can see why Oz would appeal to a young fella even if the chance of success is low. It beats kicking your heels in Ballygobackwards for 2 years. I can appreciate how young people accustomed only to the good times and never experienced a bad day might hold that opinion. Pat is an All -Ireland winner and sits at the top of the business world, so his opinion carries real credentials from the real world of highend achievement. |
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Johnnyb
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Post by Johnnyb on Mar 5, 2010 12:20:32 GMT
The Irish economy is finished, sinking into a NAMA shaped hole, take my word for it. Anyone with a chance of the good life playing ball and earning money would be mad not to take it.
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Post by kerrygold on Mar 5, 2010 12:24:56 GMT
Ireland has been f.ucked before, lets gets on with getting it back on its feet.
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Johnnyb
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Post by Johnnyb on Mar 5, 2010 12:29:44 GMT
Ireland has been f.ucked before, lets gets on with getting it back on its feet. I agree with the sentiment - but you cant lose what you dont have - that was the story of the 80's. Nothing had, nothing lost. Its different now. Negative Equity & NAMA - thats both kneecaps...! |
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animal
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Post by animal on Mar 5, 2010 13:07:25 GMT
Ireland has been f.ucked before, lets gets on with getting it back on its feet. I agree with the sentiment - but you cant lose what you dont have - that was the story of the 80's. Nothing had, nothing lost. Its different now. Negative Equity & NAMA - thats both kneecaps...! This is getting deep! I also agree with your sentiments kerrygold but in my line of work I'm seeing an awful lot of young people finishing their 3rd or 4th level education with no prospects on the horizon despite high quality degrees / PhDs etc. I'm hearing more and more stories of how people are planning to ride out the recession till things pick up. For some people that's further education. Great. Others are doing volunteer work overseas. Great. For a talented young lad it could be two years giving it a crack in OZ. If he fails and comes home he's still a young lad. He hasn't spent 2 years sat on the sofa and he might have managed to get some 3rd level course done as well. You have to see the appeal in that especially if he's the adventurous type. We're still talking about a handful of young lads and their departure won't be the tipping point in the economic recovery. It might be the tipping point of a county's All -Ireland aspirations but that's another story altogether!! |
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Post by kerrygold on Mar 5, 2010 14:44:48 GMT
I agree with the sentiment - but you cant lose what you dont have - that was the story of the 80's. Nothing had, nothing lost. Its different now. Negative Equity & NAMA - thats both kneecaps...! This is getting deep! I also agree with your sentiments kerrygold but in my line of work I'm seeing an awful lot of young people finishing their 3rd or 4th level education with no prospects on the horizon despite high quality degrees / PhDs etc. I'm hearing more and more stories of how people are planning to ride out the recession till things pick up. For some people that's further education. Great. Others are doing volunteer work overseas. Great. For a talented young lad it could be two years giving it a crack in OZ. If he fails and comes home he's still a young lad. He hasn't spent 2 years sat on the sofa and he might have managed to get some 3rd level course done as well. You have to see the appeal in that especially if he's the adventurous type. We're still talking about a handful of young lads and their departure won't be the tipping point in the economic recovery. It might be the tipping point of a county's All -Ireland aspirations but that's another story altogether!! In the 1840's we lost the spuds, thats all limbs Johnny. We had the WW1 in the '10s, the civil war in the 20's, wall street crash in the 30's, WW2 in the 40's, the 70's, 80's and much of the 90's were bleek. Indeed probably 90% of time in Ireland has been about hard times. Thats life and reality you do your best. The Germans went home at 10 pm, the Irish partied till 6am. Collectively we all indulged and collectively we all have to face up to reality, facing and admitting a problem is the start of the cure. Negative equity will come and go in time. Whether we like or loath the policy makers at Leinster house we have to let them get on with it. Eventually public opinion will demand that they sort it out. The '00s will probably be one of great history lessons for a new young republic like Ireland. Now we need risk takers and visionaries, people who will make a difference in their own regions. Metaphorically speaking we need people who are prepared to break rocks with their bare hands to open up all potential channels. Irish people over the decades have never been afraid of hard graft. Animal. In your last paragraph your correct, no the handful wont tip the economy but your also correct in saying it might tip a counties aspirations. Maybe its not a different story though altogether. South Kerry's footballing legacy was created because people like the two Mickos choose to stay at home and play for Kerry. Micko Connell came home from NY to play for Kerry, Micko Dywer opened a garage and developed a business to devote much of his life to Kerry football. Have you ever wondered what Kerry football might have been like if the two Micko's had left Ireland in the bleak 50's. How might the psyche of Kerry football people be different today without the folklore associated with both men? Great players chosen to wear the colours of the traditionally strong winning counties should think deeply before choosing different paths. Great All-Ireland winners are chosen and privileged and make a real difference to the ordinary people around them. They lift the mood of people and develop mindsets that last for generations. In bad times latching onto the achievements of the caretakers of the green and gold jersey carried us through difficult times and give us an unique identity. Immigrants around the world latched onto All - Ireland victories associated with Tipp, Cork, Kilkenny, Dublin, Galway and Kerry. Sometimes recognising such responsibility and appreciating it can be hugely fulfilling. OK the country is in the mire right now, but it pass it always does. Right now we need people that will break rocks with their bare hands and make a difference. Not everyone can achieve that, only some can do it, few are chosen. I'd congratulate Pat Gilroy for his comments, if Kerry don't win the All-Ireland in '10 well then I hope now its Dublin turn. An All- Ireland victory in the capital could be hugely powerful in turning the tide of gloom for the country. Bleakness is sitting in mud hut in Haiti the day a volcano strikes or lifting the spuds in 1845 to find them all rotten with 9 or 10 kids standing at the door of a thatched cottage crying. Maybe negative equity and NAMA now is our blight of the 1840's, though not as bad. It will pass, it always does. |
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Johnnyb
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Post by Johnnyb on Mar 5, 2010 15:15:40 GMT
"Have you ever wondered what Kerry football might have been like if the two Micko's had left Ireland in the bleak 50's. How might the psyche of Kerry football people be different today without the folklore associated with both men?"
Excellent point and a compelling post KG.
Economic dredgery aside, the lure of simply throwing on your boots for a living must also be a massive incentive.
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animal
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Post by animal on Mar 5, 2010 15:53:16 GMT
Fair point about the 2 Mickos KG, but how many "Mickos" did take the boat? How many of the lads that did leave could have been as good if not better? We can't know.
Hoisting the pressure on a young lad to "lift the mood of people and develop mindsets that last for generations." is a frightening prospect. The beauty of our game is that the players are ordinairy folk like us who happen to have more talent on the field and the mental strength that goes with it.
Maybe I'm coming from the point of view where I have known the odd player down the years. They are normal guys with their own job worries and life problems like any other person.
I just don't see the point where it becomes a guy's duty to play or to stay. It is an amateur game. A game to be enjoyed not endured to use a cliché. It means the world to us I know. But we don't pay these guys' wages. We can't stop them making a decision about their life. We might not like it. I was saddened to see Tommy go but he's a free man. We don't have a say in it.
I would admire equally any man who does what you say and stays for Kerry football as long as it's their personal choice.
The flip side in all this is that I find that Rickie Nixon fella to be absolutely nauseating. Richard Nixon by name and nature I'd say!
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Post by kerrygold on Mar 5, 2010 16:02:56 GMT
I didn't use the word "duty", my post in more in line of having an awareness and an appreciation for who and what they are, what they can bring to the table.
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animal
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Post by animal on Mar 5, 2010 16:12:55 GMT
I didn't use the word "duty", my post in more in line of having an awareness and an appreciation for who and what they are, what they can bring to the table. Fair enough. Ye are a tough bunch to please in South Kerry ;D ;D |
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Post by Mickmack on Mar 5, 2010 20:09:07 GMT
twould be grand if the 77 billion of debt going into NAMA was the extent of the problem but as Brendan keenan says below NAMA is only a dent in the banks problems.
Up to the early 70s Ireland lived within its means.... the budget was balanced and no borrowiing.
The big difference between now and the 80s is that the banks were solvent in the 80s and there was little or no debt in Irish households. Now there is huge personal debt.
This is not to say that young lads should go to play aussie rules...... few will make it and if you are a Kerry footballer you will always be alright..
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NAMA will only dent the banks' loan books
By Brendan Keenan
Saturday February 27 2010
GOOD timing, or bad? The appearance of the worst monthly credit figures so far, on the same day as the NAMA bank rescue scheme was given approval by the EU Commission, allowed both government and opposition to say: "Told you so."
Ministers can claim that the sharp fall in lending to business in January shows the need to get NAMA (the National Asset Management Agency) up and running, so that the banks' capacity to lend will increase. Opposition parties can say that, 18 months on, the Government has not been able to get credit moving, and NAMA won't make any difference.
Both have a point. Taking €80bn off the banks' lending books and sending it to NAMA does indeed improve the banks' theoretical lending capacity. But it will be negligible, because the remaining loans will still far exceed their deposits.
The debates around this have been extraordinarily difficult to follow, because at least three separate arguments are going on simultaneously. One -- which seems to be the main one -- is whether NAMA is a good idea at all. The second is how NAMA should work, and how it should deal with developers who are not servicing their loans. The third is what the effects will be, especially on credit.
The last -- credit -- is the one that will have most effect on people in the short-term, but the debate on it has been infantile. People who should know better have left the impression that the creation of credit is at the discretion bankers.
You would have to listen carefully to realise that credit is someone else's savings. In the case of the guaranteed Irish banks, the €170bn in ordinary deposits has long since been lent out in a total ordinary loan book of €370bn.
The €200bn difference is money the banks borrowed, which is what caused all the trouble in the first place when the lenders asked for their money back. They are still not in much of a mood to lend to Irish banks.
It is worth thinking about those figures for a moment before the cacophony starts again. The NAMA purchase of €80bn -- at a price still to be decided -- makes only a dent in the total loan book. And everyone knows there are more losses to come on the remaining €300bn as other businesses and homebuyers find they cannot repay what they borrowed.
The central dilemma is that efforts to restore the banks to healthy profitability run counter to efforts to increase lending. This is not just an Irish problem. Healthier banks need more capital and smaller loan books. But maximising credit for borrowers would require the banks to set less capital aside and maintain, at least, the size of their loan book.
Policies to supply credit will have to be devised separately from the NAMA issue. If there is to be some new source of lending for business, where will the capital come from, and will lending be backed by deposits or borrowings? Should such borrowings be guaranteed by the taxpayer? And so on.
The purpose of NAMA was to save the Irish banking system from collapse. Some think it will not be enough. Others say the confidence that would come from seeing it up and working well is just the thing to end the pariah status of Irish banks.
One thing we can be sure of is that the EU and euro authorities will be just as determined to prevent a euro banking system from collapsing as they are to prevent Greece from defaulting on its government debt. NAMA is now the chosen vehicle and it will be both watched and supported by Brussels and Frankfurt.
The European Commission's watchdog role should assuage some of the fears about NAMA: that it will be a bailout for politically-connected developers; that borrowers from the North or Britain would draw the short straw; that it would be used to support property prices.
The complaints will not go away, but it seems clear that the commission took a tough line by vetting many of the loans itself, checking on the price being paid for them and that they comply with strict rules on such asset relief schemes.
Beyond this, the commission has still to approve restructuring plans by AIB, Bank of Ireland and Anglo. Without that approval, the Government would not be able to assist them. The conditions are likely to be more onerous than those for NAMA. Many people find it hard to see how the nationalised Anglo can meet the EU test of being able to be commercially viable again.
A final twist in this endless tale is that the commission scrutiny means we will not know exactly what NAMA is going to pay for the loans until the loan transfer is finished late in the year. We will get indications as loans are transferred -- especially the €17bn of the "Big 10" developers.
But since the premium over current market value was the thing that most enraged economists, the absence of a firm figure just adds to the opacity of this riddle wrapped in an enigma.
bkeenan@independent.ie
- Brendan Keenan
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Post by veteran on Mar 5, 2010 21:05:04 GMT
Kerrygold,
The following is not an attempt to endorse or refute your comments but rather a stirring of my less than reliable memory. I remember in the mid sixties a man I frequently refer to here, Mick O'Connell, emigrating to England/Wales for a spell. I am not sure if this was an economic necessity or merely a whim of the great man. In those days, fifties/sixties, a lot of Irish lads went across the Irish sea to harvest the beet crop etc and I think it was on that adventure that Micko said goodbye to us for a while. This would have been about the midpoint of his football career.
Kerry won the Munster final every year from 1958 to 1965 inclusive. They were unbackable favourites to win in 1966 but Cork ambushed them in Killarney. I was in Cork at the time and travelled down by train and returned to the banks of the Lee a chastened man. Apart from the result, I remember two incidents from the match. Seamus McGearailt was making tracks for the Cork goal and a Cork player ran after him, jumped up on his back and pulled him to the ground. Seamus got up and ran after the Cork man and gave him a thundering kick up the backside. Seamus was put off. The other incident concerned the great man. As you know, St. Finian's Psychiatric Hospital runs alongside Fitzgerald Stadium. Micko was being marked by a new, young Cork midfielder. This lad started to taunt Micko by pointing at St. Finian's Hospital, the inference being obvious. Micko waited for his moment and when the opportunity arose he delivered a hay maker and for the new Cork boy it was a case of goodnight Irene. Nothing was seen by the officials. The only other occasion I saw Micko respond to provocation was in the NFL final ,1969, against Offaly. He was being marked by one of the biggest scamps I have seen play and needless to say this man could not cope with Micko's plethora of skills but rather set out to intimidate the "fragile" genius from Valentia. In almost a carbon copy of the incident I described, the patient Micko waited for his opportunity and reprised his hay maker. Good night Irene once more. Nothing seen by the officials but a thug receiving medical attention. These incidents were exceptional because very often the intimidation worked.
That 1966 final would have been Billy Morgan's first.
In any case, to return to Micko and his emigration. As I said he played in the 1966 final but would have missed the 1967 final when Cork won again. Presumably, he was still in England/Wales. I suppose we all lamented that we would never see him wear the green and gold again. Happily, he returned in all his pomp in 1968 and spearheaded Kerry to All-Ireland victories in 1969 and 1970. Memories, memories.
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Johnnyb
Fanatical Member
Posts: 1,444
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Post by Johnnyb on Mar 5, 2010 21:18:02 GMT
Kerrygold, The following is not an attempt to endorse or refute your comments but rather a stirring of my less than reliable memory. I remember in the mid sixties a man I frequently refer to here, Mick O'Connell, emigrating to England/Wales for a spell. I am not sure if this was an economic necessity or merely a whim of the great man. In those days, fifties/sixties, a lot of Irish lads went across the Irish sea to harvest the beet crop etc and I think it was on that adventure that Micko said goodbye to us for a while. This would have been about the midpoint of his football career. Kerry won the Munster final every year from 1958 to 1965 inclusive. They were unbackable favourites to win in 1966 but Cork ambushed them in Killarney. I was in Cork at the time and travelled down by train and returned to the banks of the Lee a chastened man. Apart from the result, I remember two incidents from the match. Seamus McGearailt was making tracks for the Cork goal and a Cork player ran after him, jumped up on his back and pulled him to the ground. Seamus got up and ran after the Cork man and gave him a thundering kick up the backside. Seamus was put off. The other incident concerned the great man. As you know, St. Finian's Psychiatric Hospital runs alongside Fitzgerald Stadium. Micko was being marked by a new, young Cork midfielder. This lad started to taunt Micko by pointing at St. Finian's Hospital, the inference being obvious. Micko waited for his moment and when the opportunity arose he delivered a hay maker and for the new Cork boy it was a case of goodnight Irene. Nothing was seen by the officials. The only other occasion I saw Micko respond to provocation was in the NFL final ,1969, against Offaly. He was being marked by one of the biggest scamps I have seen play and needless to say this man could not cope with Micko's plethora of skills but rather set out to intimidate the "fragile" genius from Valentia. In almost a carbon copy of the incident I described, the patient Micko waited for his opportunity and reprised his hay maker. Good night Irene once more. Nothing seen by the officials but a thug receiving medical attention. These incidents were exceptional because very often the intimidation worked. That 1966 final would have been Billy Morgan's first. In any case, to return to Micko and his emigration. As I said he played in the 1966 final but would have missed the 1967 final when Cork won again. Presumably, he was still in England/Wales. I suppose we all lamented that we would never see him wear the green and gold again. Happily, he returned in all his pomp in 1968 and spearheaded Kerry to All-Ireland victories in 1969 and 1970. Memories, memories. A lucid recall for a supposed "less than reliable memory". Great story, vet. Gets me to thinking that perhaps a certain current Kerry legend could learn a lesson from the great man in patient retribution... |
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