2 or 3 Man Full Forward Line?

[Kerry39]

I think most of us are in agreement about playing long ball into the full forward line, and most of us are also annoyed with DOS roaming everywhere.

What we don't agree about is whether we should have a 3 man full forward line, or a 2 man with either DOS or Sheehan moving out to half forward to leave room for the two inside.

My own strong preference is leave three inside. It worked well against Mayo in the final two years ago, it worked well in the first half last Sunday. It is the best way of countering the Tyrone/swarming defence style of play. I also think we have the players for it. DOS can easily play with this style, once he stays inside. We would also have other no 14 options - Sheenan, Aodan, Donnaghy at least.

The 2 man full forward line did work a few years ago, making room for MRF and Gouch. But it was different then, before Tyrone, when we had a more short passing style of game.

The Gouch doesn't need room inside, he could beat his man, turn, dummy, etc.. What he needs is support inside. As great a point taker as he is, he is even better at laying the ball off with intelligent passes to the right men. In this age we could have a set of forwards with the quick intelligent motion of the great Kerry team, while also having the industrious half forward line we've seen over the past couple of years.

What do you think?

[kerryman]

Good post '34.

Pity we don't have voting polls any more for this.
In general I think we need a 3 man full forward line. The goal we scored the last day was a case in point for this.

Gooch Sheehan Declan

Donaghy is improving rapidly in midfield and did very well against Tyrone the last day.

At least 2 of the half fowards then need to stay close to the 40 with maybe one of them being a bit more defensive.

This goes against what I've said in the Kerry/Tyrone post, but on hindsight I think we don't need one of the full forward line to drop out if the half forward line play where they're supposed to.

[scoobydo]

3 man full forward line, long ball going in. Also need men on the half forward line that can kick a score from 30 to 40 yards out, keep the opposition thinking, and keep their men occupied. Stop running the ball into contact, it does not work when you meet two or more players as you inevitably over carry or lose the ball or give a stupid pass.

[FatTom]

I see what ye are getting at.
When I said for Sheahan to drop I meant between half forwards and full forwards like Cinneide used to.

I think we have enough ball winning ability around midfield without needing to drop more out there anymore and Galvin, Brosnan have excellent work rates anyway.

[kerrygold]

we need a 3 man fullforward line whom amount to 3 serious scoring and ball winning threats,i dont believe in 2 man full forward lines or roving corner forwards either,we need 3 lads in there who will terrorise defences and keep fullback lines occupied.most all-irelands are won by teams who have great fullforward lines and are not depending on one player inside there.kerry have enough personal available to create one.Good quality hard working donkeys will do on the half forward line.
if dec concentrated solely as a scoring corner forward he would be up there with the best.gooch is like a snipe living off crumbs falling from the table instead of being a prince seated at the high table.
i still think its worth sacraficing brosnans occasional dramatic burst forward from the half forward line to play between the gooch and dec or either mike frank if he can step up the
plate again.

[stuckintipp]

Brosnans bursts thruoght the centre are unstopable, the problem i feel in the league so far is that he's been played as a wing forward.

how many times as Brosnan scored or set up scores with these bursts, he's more of a threat than MFR, DOS or paul Galvin

[austinstacksabu]

If Jack did go with a three man full forward line, who would we put in there who can score, take the pass from Gooch, or the half forward line or Declan?

Any takers?

Admin, you know the way on some websites there's a web chat once a week with a famous person or whatever. Any chace we could do one some evening with Jack O'Connor? I'm being serious by the way.

[FatTom]

Sheahan at full.
Dec Sull one corner - no roaming.
Gooch the other.

[wewillyeah]

I feel Brosnan has not produced his best form at wing foward, however the fitzmaurice experiment seems to be working, he is an excellent footballer and they were trying to accomodate him somewhere he could use his football skills and strength.

Brosnan can feel hard done by, he has never got a chance to nail down one position. Brosnan worries the hell out of opposing managers if he gets a head of steam up, he's hard to stop, but to beat tyrone you cant burst through them like that, brosnan would and has been very effective against most teams except tyrone, its fine for brosnan to be maurding through the clares and limericks of this worlds defence; however the long accurate ball to the full foward line is what we need to beat the tyrones of this world.

If William Kirby makes a return (and Donaghy keeps progressing the way he has been), perhaps Kirby could be the man we could utlilize at number 14, he's strong, physical, good in the air and well able to take a score he could be the target man we are looking for? Has he ever played at 14 for club or county before?

I would use a 3 man full-foward line with the option of bringing a mobile, physical player out if the game required it.

Gooch -- Kirby -- Declan

However, of the other players we have in the squad, i think possibly Paul O Connor is the most natural corner foward, he's unproven at senior level and it remains to be seen if he can make the breakthrough this year; again i think MF Russell is a deadly foward and in '02 he was the most feared foward in Ireland, can he re-capture that form? If he can he's a cert for number 15, if not then id say he won't be in the starting 15 this year.

We have loads of options in the foward division, its just about gelling the best 6 together.

[austinstacksabu]

fattom said:

Sheahan at full.
Dec Sull one corner - no roaming.
Gooch the other.

Declan in the corner makes me queasy at thought of it.

[Boris]

I think a full forward line of Quill,Declan O S and Cooper would be the best Kerry has to offer.All great young skillful players who will be guaranteed to get a few scores each even on a bad day. They should tie a device onto Declans neck that gives him an electric shock if he goes back beyond the 45. My half forward line would be Sheehan,Brosnan and Galvin. Fitzmaurice should be back in centre back.Brosnan will continue to be non existant if left on the wing and though not tested yet at senior level Sheehan would be worthy of a place for free taking alone.

[wonka]

bring back the bomber!bomber and cooper inside!Quill aint up to championship from what i ve seen and heard

[FatTom]

austinstacksabu said:

fattom said:

Sheahan at full.
Dec Sull one corner - no roaming.
Gooch the other.

Declan in the corner makes me queasy at thought of it.

Thats why I wrote no roaming next to it.
I knew you'd be close to gawk!!!!

[austinstacksabu]

That and the thought of him actually in the corner. He was a waste as a wing forward, so I'm not sure he's up to it in the corner either. That and the man has watched too many John Wayne movies.

[Joxer]

Love the John Wayne image ASA...pretty good description. Don't get me wrong, I think Declan is a brilliant forward but think he could contribute so much more on the scoreboard. I agree with FT...put Declan in the corner. I think he and gooch are our best options in those two positions,both capable of making and taking scores but 'no roaming' is a key part of the job spec. for Declan here. Now, let me throw the cat in among the pigeons by suggesting a different name for full forward...now hold on to ye're false teeth...whisper it....dara o'se......ok, ok, steady down.Think about it...is there a full-back in the country that would beat him in the air? The ball could be sent in high or low and he'll win it...doesn't have to favour him,hes capable of winning ball that favours other players in the way it comes in.Now in those three players, we have a ball winning and scoring full-forward line. Now, look at midfield...donaghy is settling in well. Ok hes not the finished article but give him time.Who would partner him...Tommy Griffin? Bryan Sheehan? How important is it to win midfield ball cleanly these days? Against Tyrone? in case anyone forgets, Tyrone couldn't claim to have won midfield in any game, including A.I. Final last year. Ok, for those of you still reading this....the half-forward line....Paul Galvin and Aodan MacGearailt provided Aodhan learns to protect the ball when he wins it and not have it knocked out of his hands.Eoin Brosnan centre forward. Half back line, ok hold on to those teeth again,....Tomas and Aidan on the wings and Mike McCarthy at centre back. Full back line, Tom O'Sullivan and Mossy Lyons in the corners with Marc O'Se full back. Diarmuid Murphy in goals. I'd swap Aodhan out for Fitz readily enough but would like to see Aodhan get a run. He mightn't be a bad option for midfield either. Another option for full-forward....Seamus Moynihan.


OK,OK,I'll go and lie down now.

[Tadhgeen]

Most people seem so sure about Sheehan making satring 15 - for me the jury is still out. I agree that we should have an option to play with 3 inside forwards but should be on a horses for courses scenario.
At the moment I can only pick Gooch as one of these forwards. Joxer, I'd prefer to put Donaghy in full rather than Darragh, he has the fielding abilities and Darragh is in blinding form at midfield , covering all over the field and providing leadership and experience. Doanaghy can't replace that yet.
I still think Mike Frank is a serious contender for the other corner.
For full forward I think a lot depends on whether Fitzmaurice is going to be reverted to the backs. I think it's likely that this won't happen now, so full forward picks from Declan,Sheehan or Fitzmaurice. I'm struggling here as I think Fitz has done ok at centre forward but would prefer to see Brosnan there. Put Brosnan there and what do you do with Fitz? Full forward is worth a try in my opinion but they'd want to start trying it soon.
So Fitz at full with Gooch and Mike Frank either corner.

Wing forwards is where we also need a lot of improvement. I'd be happy enough with Galvin and Declan with Brosnan at centre.

Finally I am a bit miffed as to why Marc hasn't played more time at wing back with Mossie in the corner? Also we seem to have plenty options for the forwards but not so many for the backs. What happens if we have a few injuries say to Tomas or Mike Mac or God forbid , both? Who do we bring on if Mossie is getting roasted?

[buck02]

Problem is that most teams will now play one of their half backs in front of Gooch with a wing forward dropping back behind midfield to compensate for the loss of the back. If we could get quick ball into the other corner to an "on form" MFR and/or Declan it might make teams play the sweeper more centrally and create more space for Gooch.

[kerrygold]

buck02 said:

Problem is that most teams will now play one of their half backs in front of Gooch with a wing forward dropping back behind midfield to compensate for the loss of the back. If we could get quick ball into the other corner to an "on form" MFR and/or Declan it might make teams play the sweeper more centrally and create more space for Gooch.

spot on buck02,and another big man between them who can win high and low ball,kick a score and distribute ball.It give opposing teams 3 things to think about instead of focusing on only one player.I feel the gooch would thrive in such an invoirment.

[inforthebreaks]

Joxer.. I think you had too much beer when you went to Stutgaart...

[austinstacksabu]

I can see where you're coming from Joxer - and though radical, it's actually grounded in good sense. Daragh though needs to stay in midfield. It's an area where we need leadership and he is providing it right now. If Kirby comes back into the mix, then I'd see him at midfield or full forward with Donaghy taking the other midfield berth or full forward, depending on where Kirby goes. Donaghy has played club and intercounty at full forward and has done well there. His confidence is growing so I'd be happy that he could begin to blossom up there.

But taking Mike McCarthy out of full back is a small step too far. Our full back and half back lines aren't getting taking for any big scores this year yet, and haven't for some time. You need a strong presence at full back, Marc wouldn't be able to provide that.

[kerrygold]

the kerry team doesn't need major surgery only a bit of tweeking and fine tunning here and there,i think aodhan o mahoney at corner back as a man marker with mick and tom would really tighten up the full back line.i think marc has too much football ability to be played in the full back line.
i would go for kirby and dara midfield backed up by moynihan from wing forward playing with a free leicence between the two fortys.
the fitmaurice experiment is going well but i feel we might need him at centre back yet to bring a presence and strenght to this sector.where ever he ends up he is too big and strong a player to have warming the bench against the nordies.

[kerrygold]

austinstacksabu said:

I can see where you're coming from Joxer - and though radical, it's actually grounded in good sense. Daragh though needs to stay in midfield. It's an area where we need leadership and he is providing it right now. If Kirby comes back into the mix, then I'd see him at midfield or full forward with Donaghy taking the other midfield berth or full forward, depending on where Kirby goes. Donaghy has played club and intercounty at full forward and has done well there. His confidence is growing so I'd be happy that he could begin to blossom up there.

But taking Mike McCarthy out of full back is a small step too far. Our full back and half back lines aren't getting taking for any big scores this year yet, and haven't for some time. You need a strong presence at full back, Marc wouldn't be able to provide that.

how effective a player is donaghy at full forward stacks for the club?

on your point about kerry not conceding big scores,if you look at the scoring averages in our group of the league you will see that kerry have conceded the most amount of points,i thinks it's 77 points,from there games.i'm not convience about aodhan at no.6,but i think he would really tighten up the full back line with mick and tom.

[austinstacksabu]

He's effective alright - anytime plan a with Dara Long isn't working, Donaghy is drafted in and takes some good high ball in and can distribute it fairly well - better than what's happening on the Kerry team at present anyway.

[madmac999]

At the moment we might as well be playing a one man forward line!!! Gooch!!

[austinstacksabu]

And if he's injured again - Good night Vienna.

[FatTom]

Don't think Kirby will start. Himself and Darragh are too similar we need more pace/ball carrying ability in midfield.

I'm not so sure about Donnaghy at full either.
I'd rather a more natural football who can field and score but this is lacking at present.
Sheahan maybe the answer but then Declan would be the other corner and if he starts roaming it f**ks up the balance.
The only other solution is to put him centre forward.

[kerrygold]

fattom said:

Don't think Kirby will start. Himself and Darragh are too similar we need more pace/ball carrying ability in midfield.

I'm not so sure about Donnaghy at full either.
I'd rather a more natural football who can field and score but this is lacking at present.
Sheahan maybe the answer but then Declan would be the other corner and if he starts roaming it f**ks up the balance.
The only other solution is to put him centre forward.

there is a more natural footballer in kerry who can catch and score fattom,but they won't play him there.
if the management insist that declan plays in the corner then he will.
take a look at the stats i posted on the tyrone kerry page and tell me what it says about our fullforward line last year.

[FatTom]

Who?

Agreed on full forward line.

[Kerry39]

Another great thread for reading today!

[austinstacksabu]

austinstacksabu said:

Darragh though needs to stay in midfield. It's an area where we need leadership and he is providing it right now. If Kirby comes back into the mix, then I'd see him at midfield or full forward with Donaghy taking the other midfield berth or full forward, depending on where Kirby goes. Donaghy has played club and intercounty at full forward and has done well there. His confidence is growing so I'd be happy that he could begin to blossom up there.

But taking Mike McCarthy out of full back is a small step too far. Our full back and half back lines aren't getting taking for any big scores this year yet, and haven't for some time. You need a strong presence at full back, Marc wouldn't be able to provide that.

I know - wasn't I great - nearly five months ago :-) :-) :-) :-) :-)