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Post by Kerry39 on Jun 8, 2006 6:58:58 GMT
Another thing: does any one else thing that the sucess of the "high ball in" against Mayo in 2004 is now coming back to haunt us as we can't see beyond it? . On that day we had much more than just "high ball in", it was long, and quick ball, into a 3 man full forward line. There was no stalling around the middle, passing across the field like happened last year. To play like that again we first of all need a 3 man full forward line, and have people in there who will stay there, and can win ball. Having three scorers is not vital - how much did Crowley score in the Mayo final? At this stage, despite a good performance against Waterford, DOS does not seem to filling this role (be it he is following orders or otherwise). And we are desparately trying to find another score getting, Gouch like, corner forward, but can't really settle on one. So why not put some big, tried and trusted footballers, in there? Someone else asked about Aodan Mac, I really think he has what it takes, as long as he gets his match sharpness back. Otherwise put in Seamus, Fitzy, Brosnan, Star, Griffin, etc... but most of all revert back to a 3 man full forward line, and play fast, long, and even high ball into them.
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seamus
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Post by seamus on Jun 8, 2006 8:33:39 GMT
Who is Griffin?
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Post by austinstacksabu on Jun 8, 2006 9:00:51 GMT
Tommy Griffin? Lads, this is turning into a strange debate. Sure put Diarmuid Murphy there and bring back Declan O'Keeffe in goals. Diarmuid has a great pair of hands to catch ball in and can always feed off the ball under pressure.
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Post by buck02 on Jun 8, 2006 9:28:56 GMT
After the all ireland final last year, every single preson I spoke to after the game (and who posted here on this forum) was giving out about Kerrys obsession with pumping in high balls when it obviously didnt work.
Now it seems that people here think our one and only tactic is - fire in high ball on top of a full forward line, 2 out of 5 times we'll win the break and hopefully score. Jesus if that isnt Junior B tactics I dunno what is.
If we play 3 inside men and draw out half forward line out around the middle then we can take it that the opposition will drop an extra defender in front of the full forward line. While this poses an extra problem, the "sweeper" cannot cover the 3 inside men. Especially if we can play some sensible diagonal balls that Galvin played regularly to Gooch in 04 & 05. And also if a forward breaks with pace from the middle (like Galvin, Brosnan regularly do) it'll be 4 v 4 inside the 50.
While it may be no harm to try a long one in every now and then just to test out the full back line, we should not become obsessed with it.
And on Seamus full forward. Not a hope.
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Post by watchdahop on Jun 8, 2006 10:09:00 GMT
OK here we go: We could do with a big full forward. I dont think Seamus is a full forward Eamon Fitz is not a full forward Eoin Brosnan is not a full forward Star is not a full forward (at this stage) Kirby is not a full forward Tommy Griffin is not a full forward The above players could be classified as good/above average up to excellent but they are not full fowards. The only one who might and I mean might make a full forward is star. But it would take a lot of time coaching and patience to do it. Besides isn't he being groomed to take over from Dara at midfield?
Will Brian Sheehan make a full foward? We could well get a better idea next Sunday.
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Post by Attacking Wing Back on Jun 8, 2006 10:19:23 GMT
Its a bit late for this cr** now anyway. Championship ha started. The league was the place for trying out such notions i.e fitzmaurice. There would be no problem if we played 6 good forwards for kerry. None of this rubbish about needing a leader. All you need is a man who can take a ball turn and slap it over the barr enough said. Give them good ball and they'll thrive. Forwards are for scoring not looking pretty. Forwards shold be:
Sheehan Brosnan Galvin
Darren O Sullivan. Aodhan Mac Gooch
If declan wants to be a wing back he can play there or sit on the bench!!!!!
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Post by buck02 on Jun 8, 2006 10:31:15 GMT
Its a bit late for this cr** now anyway. Championship ha started. The league was the place for trying out such notions i.e fitzmaurice. There would be no problem if we played 6 good forwards for kerry. None of this rubbish about needing a leader. All you need is a man who can take a ball turn and slap it over the barr enough said. Give them good ball and they'll thrive. Forwards are for scoring not looking pretty. Forwards shold be: Sheehan Brosnan Galvin Darren O Sullivan. Aodhan Mac Gooch If declan wants to be a wing back he can play there or sit on the bench!!!!! Bit of a contradiction there Lolly - first you say its a bit late for experimenting now that the league was the time for that (& I agree with you there) and then you say Aodhan Mc should be full forward when he hasnt started a competitive game for Kerry in god knows how long.
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Post by Attacking Wing Back on Jun 8, 2006 10:32:43 GMT
Its not an experiment as such. hes played their before and knows the story. Rattled of two goals against cork in 1999.
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MrT
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Post by MrT on Jun 8, 2006 13:06:08 GMT
Its not an experiment as such. hes played their before and knows the story. Rattled of two goals against cork in 1999. hahahahahahahaha brilliant ....he did it 7 years ago, so obviously he can produce the goods again today! classic Lads, he's obviously not doing it in training, and like others on the panel, just because you used to be great doesn't mean you derserve to start. wake up wil ye if he n others aren't doing it in training they would be dropped,otherwise what the point of having him on d panel else bring in players that will be willing to train hard instead.wouldnt entirely agree that d league is d place to experiment,sometimes things just happen n should be addressed accordingly no matter how much experimenting has been done. Also agree with your comment about being great once does not mean u are now,this also applies to seamus,but management have bootled it by not dropping him like they are gonna bottle it by not chancing the big man in FF
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Post by xuaeb2000 on Jun 8, 2006 13:18:29 GMT
When I suggested Moynihan for Full-forward, I was not suggesting a sterile policy of pumping high balls in. In my view, Moynihan's presence in the Full-Forward line allows for a variety of approaches. The most important thing is to get rid of the lateral messing that has bedevilled our game (Kerry's) for a long time - even on good days. Siting an inspirational and feared player up front has enormous psychological impacts for (a) His colleagues up front; (b) His colleagues out the field in providing a new focus; (c) The opposition backs; (d) The opposition Management.
Just imagine you are Caffrey, Harte, Kernan or Forde or Morgan. You are used to Kerry's approach - which no matter what variations is "get it to Gooch". Now you are faced with Moynihan. There may be admirers of Moynihan on this board, but none are greater admirers than those genlemen just mentioned. They will have to adjust their thinking and their tactics. They are no longer faced with a nice skillful player like O'Cinneide. Nor are they faced with a new boy in town eg Sheehan. Nor are they faced with just a big physical player just there to cause havoc a la Quirke - or some variation therof. No! They will be faced with a player they fear and respect. All the posts pointing out that Moynihan is not a forward are accurate in that he has no game time there. But he is an all-round footballer with commitment ,tenacity and strength (never discount his sheer strength) with a brain and total selfishness. And about all inspirational leadership. Somebody reminded us of Moynihan coming on as a corner-forward in a League Match in Tralee against Armagh. His arrival into the forward line completely changed the trend of that game. He scored one point - but the most important thing is that the rudderless forward line became energised and we pulled the game out of the fire. (I know this will be knocked as just a League Game - but........). Just consider one point. One of Seamus's attributes is his tenacity and skill as a tackler. Imagine the extra pressure exerted on a back trying to clear his line with Moynihnan around. All clearances will be dearly bought. You are now bringing pressure to bear in a part of the field where we just have not been doing it - for an awful long time. I am just taking one facet on Seamus's game. We are talking about one the all-round footballers of his generation - with an indomnitable spirit. If I did not fear Moynihan being targetted by a speed merchant, I would not move hime from the backs. But he is only human and time does catch up. I know what I would be doing if I was a Manager of a team facing Kerry with Moynihan at CentreBack (at this stage). Somebody posted that leadership is not important - that we just need fast ball in and someone to put it over the bar. If ever a County should realise the importance of leadership in recent years, it is us. Blessed as usual, with more than our share of classy players, we still are bemused with a string of results where we wonder "how did we leave that behind". Our backs now have a collective maturity about them that is reassuring. I am not enthused by the make up of the midfield partnership - too alike and they hold the ball up too much. We have the makings of an extremely dangereous forward line if we get the ingredients right. How many games have Kerry pulled out of the fire in the last long number of years? How many games have we had where we start out brightly playing some lovely football and then it begins to slip away as the game tightens up. Great and all as the Jack O'Sheas and the Tom Longs were, their greatest attributes were their qualities of leadership and ability to get down and graft when games were going against you. Tom Long had no fingers left at the end of his career from pulling games out of the fire for Kerry. That is what I want brought to our Full-Forward line. This team is blessed with the most sublime forward I have ever seen in Gooch. But he is carrying an intolerable load. At the risk of repeating myself - I am not advocating the introduction of a big mullocker at full-forward or a tall beanpole to pull off a few high catches. That would be one dimensional defeatist policy. What I am advocating is something that is really exciting, multi-dimensional and positive.
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MrT
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Post by MrT on Jun 8, 2006 13:31:52 GMT
if he n others aren't doing it in training they would be dropped,otherwise what the point of having him on d panel else bring in players that will be willing to train hard instead I'm don't think anyone on the current panel should be dropped - happy enough with the talent there. But players can be good enough for the panel, but not good enough for the first 15! Have you been watchin the games at all?! - Seamus has been playing as well as any other defender on the field since his return. Deserves his spot. would you belive i seen him in a club game bout 5-6/8 weeks ago and he wasn't at all impressive,granted it was a mucky pitch but still.....the point im making is that kerry's managment is one dimensional in their thinkin and are not open to changes which could benefit the team.FACT:seamus has lost a lot of pace in recent years thru injury etc n while that does not really show in league/early championship it does show in AI semi&final's which is someting we should be aspiring to;reaching the top every year.A winning team is usually a settled team n there is absolutely no point in having seamo CB or Dec wing if they are just gonna be a sub FF when crunch time comes.
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seamus
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Post by seamus on Jun 8, 2006 13:47:25 GMT
This is a pointless debate as it simply will not happen for one reason. If Jack played Seamus at 14 in the championship he would be completely ridiculed by the Kerry 'animals' and press. The league is a time for experimentation and championship is for fine tuning and this has stood the test of time in Kerry. You don't take out your centre back and put him at 14 in the middle of June when he has never played there. Jack will go with what he has and fine tune it with the possibilities at 14 being DOS, Sheehan, Ronan O'Connor, brosnan and possibly donaghy.
Its time to get realistic on this forum!
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Post by inforthebreaks on Jun 8, 2006 13:52:03 GMT
I wouldnt even put Donaghy or Brosnan as realistic options for full forward seamus. Neither have played there for the county and, as you rightly say, the champiosnhip is not the time for such trials.
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seamus
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Post by seamus on Jun 8, 2006 13:56:34 GMT
Neither would i inforthebreaks. Brosnan did start there in last years AI though and Star plays there a good bit for Stacks though. My own preference would be DOS instructed to stay inside.
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Post by inforthebreaks on Jun 8, 2006 14:05:50 GMT
mine too. i think people are a bit harsh on him in here to be honest.
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Post by austinstacksabu on Jun 8, 2006 16:42:56 GMT
I might not agree xueb2000 but that was a cracking good post (some paragraph breaks there to space it out a bit).
We really have no idea between the lot of us as to what we want at full forward, and any options Jack has tried to date haven't worked. Is there a solution? Honestly?
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Post by smellUlater on Jun 16, 2006 11:22:03 GMT
Kerrygold yep Fitzmaurice wouldn't have caught most of that ball that Crowley caught in 2004. Crowley had the mindset of an intercounty of 10 or whatever years of been an intercouny player in the full forward line to make a little 5 yard run to get a yard opf space to gather the high ball. If you wanted a forward to gather a five yard hand pass and kick over the bar then Mike Frank would be a better bet than Fitz. The problem with Mike Frank is he can't win his own ball at the moment
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Post by Kerry39 on Sept 18, 2006 6:04:07 GMT
This is a great tread to go back over today!
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Post by kerryman on Sept 18, 2006 8:49:42 GMT
It says a lot for the management that they could get the panel to that level of unbeatable skill, strength and teamwork yesterday.
If you had said it to any of us 6 months ago we'dve had you in a padded cell before you could say "34th title"
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Post by kerrygold on Sept 18, 2006 10:16:49 GMT
i think its to fair to say that kieran donaghy is a bigger distraction now on the fullforward line than the gooch for opposition defences.
kerryman,take a look back over the prediction thread at the start of the year,some of us believed.
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Post by kerryman on Sept 18, 2006 10:35:34 GMT
kerryman,take a look back over the prediction thread at the start of the year,some of us believed. maybe...but that massace yesterday was off the scales. Completely unpredictable.
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Post by inforthebreaks on Sept 18, 2006 10:43:04 GMT
Whats going to happen him (donaghy) now though? Will he stay inside or will he be moved back out to midfield, perhaps when Dara retires but I'm hoping that wont happend for another year or two anyway
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Post by kerryman on Sept 18, 2006 11:04:47 GMT
Whats going to happen him (donaghy) now though? Will he stay inside or will he be moved back out to midfield, perhaps when Dara retires but I'm hoping that wont happend for another year or two anyway Star will stay put, and Tommy Walsh is going to be a fine midfielder. We'll be grand.
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Post by kerrygold on Sept 18, 2006 11:22:25 GMT
tommy is a minor again next year,it will proberly take him a wee while to come through.
kieran has to stay at fullforward,he hasn't even started to play there yet.
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Post by FatTom on Sept 18, 2006 12:24:57 GMT
I don't think Walsh is minor again next year. Is he? His brother Barry John is but not Tommy
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Post by kerrygold on Sept 18, 2006 12:32:13 GMT
i think he is,i will make a phone call to-night and see.
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Post by austinstacksabu on Sept 18, 2006 19:16:49 GMT
Apparently Barry John did some very bad damage to his shoulder during the week.....
Oh, and good to see that like other threads, I kept barking for Donaghy at full forward after the initial stages of the league. Mind you, I was given some slack, saying I was only concentrating my own club player and that he was no good at full forward!!!!
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