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Post by luxrebel on Jul 24, 2008 8:16:25 GMT
I was just about to write a long post here about this, but StacksAbu got there before me. I think this is exactly why the case could not be thrown out. Paul Galvin admitted guilt on National TV. I would assume he and his advisors are not happy now. The case would probably be over if he had said nothing.
Everyone has an opinion on this in GAA land, so you are correct, hard to find impartial people for the CHC panel.
A lot of sense here from Kaywhy as well.
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Post by leixman on Jul 24, 2008 8:55:51 GMT
Difficult on his family too - heard his Mother on "Joe Duffy" today. You could tell the waiting has her upset. Its not fair, waiting has gone on too long. Cant understand what shes doing talking to that fooking tool.
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kaywhy
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Post by kaywhy on Jul 24, 2008 9:00:55 GMT
Much as I would not like to see the KCB resorting to law in this matter I feel they would be justified. Natural Justice dictates that a disciplinary body or court or whatever quasi judicial body gets its chance to do its work. If they make a Bo****x of the matter then the subject of the proceedings walks free. they can not just decide that they are sending the matter back to the original "court" so that they can then do their job properly. Dont be surprised if the matter ends up under the big green dome on the quays. And I wouldnt blame them at this stage if it does. When you sign up to take an issue to the DRA, you enter their dispute resolution proceedings accepting their terms and conditions, which include... "11.3 The Tribunal may direct any party to the dispute resolution proceedings to take, or abstain from taking, any steps, within the Rules of the Association and with due regard to the rights of third parties, including, but not limited to, the re-hearing of any disciplinary or other decision-making process, with or without directions as to the proper procedures to be applied. " It was always a possibility, it is perfecting binding. It can't end up in the courts, nor will it.
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Post by boghopper on Jul 24, 2008 9:04:05 GMT
have to agree with stacksabu. it would probably be thrown out but for his admission of guilt. you never admit guilt in the gaa (just look at the donaghy case - sticking his 2fingers up at mayo "fans")
i'm very disillusioned with the whole process. it's a shameful day for the gaa, and i don't say that lightly. i think he has the right to go all the way to the high court in this case.
But even if his ban is overturned. i can see no protection being given by any ref for Paul. They will look to give him a straight red at the first opportunity. i remember in 2002 dara sé was flying that year. leading up to the final he was going for player of the year. than he gets a straight red card in a co. championship match, which was than overturned. dara did not play with the same aggression in that final, and was one of the primary factors in our loss.
I'd love to see Paul Galvin back in the green and gold this year but I don't think his gonna get fair play from the majority of referees.
ps as a wk man i'd love to see paul galving playing with feale rangers. i get far more satisfaction beating a team when their at full strength.
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seamus
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Post by seamus on Jul 24, 2008 9:17:32 GMT
Stacks has summed up the main points very well. I find it strange that the remit of the DRA does not allow them to reduce the suspension. Most forms of binding aribitration are about give and take and finding a compromise solution. I suspect that the GAA did not want to relinquish control of the actual process of setting the suspension and set up the DRA to strictly prevent high court cases on technicalities.
What is likely now is that Paul's ban will not be quashed now as the DRA seem to be hinting at a reduction. If i was a betting man i feel it will come down to 3 months which is of little benefit to Paul or Kerry. One question: If his ban is reduced to 3 months can he resume club competition straight away? IE. At what level does the distinction between a club and county red card kick in? For example if i got a straight red card with my club and received 1 month ban i would still be eligable to play with Kerry and vice versa. When does the suspension move across the cover both levels?
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kaywhy
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Post by kaywhy on Jul 24, 2008 9:18:41 GMT
Respect for match officials is most important >>>to be valued ++++to be enforced but Most of your post revisits points that have no bearing on this decision... disallowed goals? - c'mon... but the line above caught my eye... 'most important', 'to be valued', 'to be enforced' - ... and then you say 'but...' ?? There is no place in our games, or any game, for allowing players to react in whatever way they want towards officials, regardless of the provocation. There are far too many posts in this thread claiming or suggesting it would only have been right if Paul walked free, and how dare the GAA even suspended him in the first place for what he did etc etc.... Even Paul himself admitted wrong doing, and even Paul himself would accept some punishment.So, please please spare me the rants about injustice and the anti-Kerry conspiracy... the process is continuing, and soon enough, I'm confident we will be at a stage where the punishment fits the crime.
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kaywhy
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Post by kaywhy on Jul 24, 2008 9:24:59 GMT
Walking around yesterday and I got the call - Paul has to go back to the CHC! I was utterly stumped. Trying to make sense of it during the night, the only thing I can come up with is this. Paul admitted guilt in relation to some elements of his actions on June 15th to the DRA. Therefore he admitted that some element of his suspension was deserved. The DRA are not in a position to reduce the suspension. They can either insist it be upheld or quashed in its entirity. Paul has admitted that some of the suspension is warranted, and therefore he needs to serve some of the suspension, but not all. The DRA are not in a position to reduce it. They couldn't throw it out either - he himself admitted that some of the punishment was just so they can't go and quash something that he himself says is partially just. The only option open to them was to review the case through the technicalities applied in handing Paul his suspension. They found fault with those of the CHC and have quashed their particular hearing. The only option available to them was to request that the hearing be heard again and proper procedure be applied. It's not fair on Paul that this has to drag on. But ultimately, he has accepted guilt and they could not quash the suspension in full as a result. Jeez, stacks, you're getting great credit for this post! And there was I thinking I'd mentioned most of it before ya... haha I guess I'll just have to reach 3 green stars before anyone will start listening to me!! ...only 3,579 posts and I'll match you... This thread should get me there! ;D
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seamus
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Post by seamus on Jul 24, 2008 9:30:46 GMT
Good article on it by Colm Keys. It confirms my worst fears. 3 months at best
Thursday July 24 2008
He's had a hearing and an appeal in Dublin, over 12 hours of intense legal argument across two DRA sessions in Dunboyne Castle, not to mention the thousands of words written in print and spoken across the airwaves over his fit of rage in snapping a black book out of referee Paddy Russell's hands.
But now Paul Galvin may have to face it all over again after the Disputes Resolution Authority opted to quash his original suspension and send the case back for re-hearing.
The Kerry captain learned his fate last night through a brief statement from the DRA, almost two days after the tribunal had wound up hearing evidence.
Irregularities
The arbitration body decided that there were procedural irregularities that occurred at his original CHC hearing on June 23 which were in breach of his right to fair procedures and a fair hearing.
But if this was the case then why did they not just quash the suspension altogether and not recommend that it be heard again?
If the procedures were so "irregular" then why did the case not fall down completely on a technicality as has happened with other cases that have gone before the arbitration body since its inception in 2005?
It begs the obvious question. Have the DRA inadvertently invited the CHC to look at the case in a different light without actually saying so?
The tribunal may have felt it was outside its terms of reference to propose the minimum three-month suspension instead of six months but by sending it back they have given the option to a new constituted CHC to do so.
It may be the quickest and most painless way out of a story that has dominated the championship summer so far even if it was to reflect badly on the GAA's disciplinary process.
The stay of execution for Galvin is being seen as a glimmer of hope -- he could still make an All-Ireland final if Kerry survived that far provided there is reduction by half of his suspension. But it could have been more -- and how close Galvin must have come to being liberated completely to play in next weekend's third round qualifier he might never know.
As it stands Galvin is unlikely to get such a reprieve from a newly constituted CHC that would allow him to play in that match.
The most he can expect now is a reduction of three months instead of a complete acquittal which must have been on the cards during deliberations over the last 48 hours.
Constituted
But if the newly constituted CHC were to hold their nerve, correct the irregularities and decide that the original proposal for six months from the CCCC should stand, then Galvin would be faced with a decision to go through the whole appeal and DRA process again.
Having already made their recommendations would there be any point in returning to the DRA again?
Without the full text of the judgement the irregularities can only be speculated on, but there was a theory last night that that video evidence that wasn't accepted at the original CHC meeting, that highlighted why Galvin felt compelled to draw the attention of a linesman in the first place, may have been behind the decision to re-hear the case.
Another line of thought was that the intense media scrutiny in the eight days between the incident and the hearing and the assumption that the six months proposed by the CCCC was concrete, may have made it too difficult for the CHC to reach any other conclusion.
Confident
Kerry officials had been extremely confident after the tribunal concluded hearing evidence from both sides on Monday night last.
And it is known that GAA officials were fearing the worst as they awaited news over the last 48 hours.
The last high profile case that the DRA sent back to a particular body for re-hearing involved the Derry footballer Paddy Bradley over 12 months ago.
On that occasion Bradley had been suspended for three months by Derry's CHC for alleged minor physical interference with a referee in a club match at the start of the summer.
The DRA adjudged that the presence of a CHC member on the committee who acted regularly as an umpire for the referee who reported Bradley for the original offence could lead to "a perception of bias."
The case was never re-heard. As Derry built up a significant degree of momentum through the qualifiers after their Ulster championship exit to Monaghan the Derry County Board didn't have the stomach to go ahead with the recommendations.
Significantly, the DRA panel that sat to hear the Bradley case did not specify that he should remain suspended until his case was re-heard.
The uncovering of "irregularities" is another big setback for the GAA's disciplinary procedures, coming so soon after Colin Moran's liberation from a four week suspension last week.
It will shake confidence in the ability of the system to work smoothly after so much recent progress.
For the last 12 months nearly every case that had come through the Central Appeals Committee to the DRA had been upheld.
But in recent weeks the decision on the Portlaoise/ St Joseph's Barrowhouse U-21 case, on top of Moran, has reversed that trend.
Interestingly, one of the recommendations of the DRA panel that sat to hear the caseof Monaghan's Paul Finlay last week suggested that decisions which involved the doubling of suspensions should be explained, even in the shortest detail.
In the meantime, Galvin must take to the road again, another hearing with the CHC in Dublin, presumably over the next few days, given the expediency suggested the DRA, and a possible appeal after that again.
The arbitration body makes two recommendations -- "that the matter be re-heard by a newly convened and differently constituted CHC as soon as possible and that Mr Galvin remains suspended in the interim period and is not eligible to play Gaelic games until the disciplinary process has been concluded."
There is still a pulse to Paul Galvin's season and as Kerry chairman Jerome Conway acknowledged last night "where there is life there is hope".
Just a little hope, mind.
- Colm Keys
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kaywhy
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Post by kaywhy on Jul 24, 2008 9:41:03 GMT
www.irishexaminer.comBack to square one for GalvinBy Colm O’Connor THE torture continues for Paul Galvin who finds himself in a disciplinary limbo after the Disputes Resolution Authority discovered ‘procedural irregularities’ by the group which suspended the Kerry captain for six months. The DRA last night quashed the decision made by the Central Hearings Committee on June 23 and has demanded that the CHC reconvene and hear the case again. The Finuge man, had been charged under Rule 146 (Section Four) following an altercation with referee Paddy Russell and a linesman in the Kingdom’s Munster SFC opener against Clare in Fitzgerald Stadium, Killarney on June 15. However the DRA reasoned: “Whilst Mr Galvin accepted that an incident happened on June 15, 2008 which warranted the commencement of disciplinary proceedings, the DRA Tribunal is of the view that procedural irregularities occurred at the CHC hearing on June 23, 2008 which were in breach of his right to fair procedures and to a fair hearing.” The announcement means that Galvin, out of football since the incident, remains suspended, and must face the turmoil of the GAA’s disciplinary process once more. A differently constituted CHC will meet “as soon as possible” and allow the player to plead his case in an effort to overturn the 24-week ban. That meeting is expected to be held early next week. The original CHC meeting slapped the suspension on Galvin noting that “it relates to a category four offence and includes an eight-week suspension for a category two offence which runs concurrently.” Depending on their findings — if for example they again impose a six months ban — Galvin could find himself going through the entire appeals process and back to the DRA. However the one positive for Galvin is that the ban was not upheld and he can cling to some slim hope of returning to football as the Kingdom bid to become the first side to achieve the three-in-a-row since Mick O’Dwyer led the Kingdom to the hat-trick of titles between 1984 and 1986. If the ban is reduced to three months, he could be in contention to return for an All-Ireland final provided his team can reach the decider on September 21. It is the second major blow for GAA discipline in the past week. On Friday the DRA quashed the four-week suspension imposed on Colin Moran by the CHC on July 3 allowing him to play in the Leinster final win over Wexford. However the player himself admitted this week that he had yet to discover the reasoning behind the U-turn. “They released a short statement saying that the ban was quashed and that’s still all I know,” admitted the Ballyboden St Enda’s man. A Croke Park spokesperson refused to comment on the Paul Galvin matter last night noting that the case was still ongoing. Former GAA President Sean Kelly last night said the DRA’s decision was not unexpected. “The DRA wouldn’t have the authority to reduce the penalty and if they felt that the penalty was excessive the only way it could be reduced was to send it back to the CHC to do the business again. “In the past when procedural difficulties were highlighted people got off scot free. But now the DRA have the power to send it back from where it came. “From the viewpoint of the GAA disciplinary system it is a positive, but it is a negative for Paul Galvin who a few years ago would have escaped punishment because of such a technicality.” The Irish Examiner columnist believes the ruling means that the Galvin saga could run for another number of weeks. “I’d imagine so. If Paul Galvin finds himself having to appearing before a Hearings Committee again he should also have the right to appeal again if he so desires,” he said. Kerry Chairman Jerome Conway preferred to view the news a positive last night. This is the process, so there is still life and where there is life there is hope. “It’s gone back again now to the CHC. “It’s unlikely to be before the weekend, but I don’t know.” Meanwhile, Croke Park chiefs confirmed that the draw for Round 3 of the GAA Football All-Ireland Senior Football Championship Qualifiers will take be televised on Sunday. The draw will be broadcast live at 6.40pm on RTÉ 2 as part of The Sunday Game Live from Semple Stadium, Thurles. Round Three will pair the Round Two winners from Saturday against the Provincial Runners-up, Mayo, Wexford, Fermanagh or Armagh and Galvin’s Kerry. Paul Galvin Timeline JUNE 15: KERRY’S victory over Clare in the opening game of their All-Ireland title defence is overshadowed by the dismissal of captain Paul Galvin. The skipper was sent off for a second yellow card offence but on receiving his marching orders, he slapped referee Paddy Russell’s notebook out of his hand, remonstrated with a linesman and pushed team-mate Tomas Ó Sé who was attempting to placate him. JUNE 16: GALVIN appears on RTÉ’s Six One News to apologise for his action. He said: “The exact details of what happened I don’t want to get into because I don’t think this is the right place to deal with that. It was borne out of a huge level of frustration for me. Clearly what happened was wrong and I was out of order to do what I did. And I regret what I did. I’d like to apologise to the match officials, the Kerry management and my team-mates, and the Kerry supporters, who I feel like I’ve let down.” JUNE 17: THE Central Competitions Control Committee proposes a massive six-month suspensions for Galvin. Galvin is charged under Rule 146 (Section Four): Minor physical interference with (e.g. laying a hand on, pushing, pulling or jostling), threatening or abusive conduct towards, or threatening language to, a Referee, Umpire, Linesman or Sideline Official. Penalty: (i) Minimum: 12 weeks Suspension in all Codes and at all Levels. (ii) Minimum on Repeat Infraction: 24 weeks Suspension in all Codes and at all Levels. JUNE 17: KERRY GAA chiefs confirm they will appeal any proposed ban. “Coiste Chontae Chiarrai fully supports our captain in this action. Paul Galvin worked extremely hard after his operation to get back to full fitness to captain Kerry. The proposed 24-week suspension will rule Paul out of inter-county and club activity for hurling and football for the rest of the year. In the circumstances, we feel that the proposed suspension is excessive.” JUNE 18: FORMER Kerry All-Ireland winning manager Jack O’Connor claims Galvin is being ‘demonised’. “I believe that over the past few days that Paul has been demonised a bit and the discussion has not been fair and balanced,” he tells Radio Kerry. “If you are a Kerry man, you love Paul Galvin and the way he plays. If you are from an opposing county, you probably hate him. You’re either in the Paul Galvin fan club or you’re not because he is such an effective player and plays the game hard. “If Paul was playing with one of the northern teams, he would be a hero up there because that’s the way they play their football. He is a great guy and puts his heart and soul into the game and now to have the rug taken from under his feet for six months as a dual player — the punishment does not certainly fit the crime. His world is shattered.” JUNE 22: GAA President Nickey Brennan says players like Galvin are not being victimised. “I think it is fairly clear what the attitude of our association is this year towards misbehaviour on the field. I think that has been well signposted and I hope I don’t need to reiterate it again. We will not tolerate any incidents and I don’t care who that is or what county they are from.” JUNE 23: THE Central Hearings Committee imposes a 24 week ban on Galvin. A statement issued the next day by Croke Park stated that “The Central Hearings Committee has imposed a 24 weeks suspension on Paul Galvin of Kerry from the 15th June 2008. This suspension relates to a category four offence and includes an 8 week suspension for a category two offence which runs concurrently.” Kerry begin the Appeals process JUNE 26: GALVIN fails in his appeal at the Central Appeals Committee, while Monaghan’s Paul Finlay’s eight week ban was also upheld. He heads for the Disputes Resolution Authority. A Kerry County Board statement expressed “disappointment that Paul Galvin’s appeal in relation to his excessive suspension was turned down at last night’s Central Appeals Committee meeting in Croke Park.” JUNE 27: GALVIN delays his appeal to the DRA until after the Munster final so not as to impinge on his team mates preparation for the clash with Cork. JULY 6: KERRY lose Munster decider to Cork after surrendering an eight-point half-time lead. Galvin is out of the country as the Kingdom are rocked. JULY 15/16: DRA meet to hear Galvin’s request for arbitration. The meeting lasts over seven hours but was not completed. The DRA arrange to meet again on July 21 before ruling on the issue. JULY 21: GALVIN heads to the DRA again. Meeting lasts five hours YESTERDAY: The DRA Tribunal quashes the Decision of the Central Hearings Committee (CHC) made in respect of Galvin. The DRA Tribunal has directs: (a) that the matter be re-heard by a newly convened and differently constituted CHC as soon as possible; and (b) that Mr Galvin remains suspended in the interim period and is not eligible to play Gaelic games until the disciplinary process has been concluded.
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seamus
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Post by seamus on Jul 24, 2008 9:41:20 GMT
SEAN KELLY'S TAKE ON IT FROM TODAYS EXAMINER
Former GAA President Sean Kelly last night said the DRA’s decision was not unexpected.
“The DRA wouldn’t have the authority to reduce the penalty and if they felt that the penalty was excessive the only way it could be reduced was to send it back to the CHC to do the business again.
“In the past when procedural difficulties were highlighted people got off scot free. But now the DRA have the power to send it back from where it came.
“From the viewpoint of the GAA disciplinary system it is a positive, but it is a negative for Paul Galvin who a few years ago would have escaped punishment because of such a technicality.”
The Irish Examiner columnist believes the ruling means that the Galvin saga could run for another number of weeks.
“I’d imagine so. If Paul Galvin finds himself having to appearing before a Hearings Committee again he should also have the right to appeal again if he so desires,” he said.
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kaywhy
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Post by kaywhy on Jul 24, 2008 9:46:38 GMT
Kerry hopes rise as Galvin case sent back www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/sport/2008/0724/1216741027955.htmlHOW THEY LINED UP The DRA tribunal (in the Galvin case) was chairman Pat Purcell (barrister), Brian Rennick (solicitor) and John Fay (Longford County Board). Paul Galvin was represented by the barrister Donagh McDonagh. The various GAA committees who handed down decisions in the case have been represented by Patrick O'Reilly (barrister) who is assisted by the solicitor Larry Fenelon.
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Post by misteallaigh abú on Jul 24, 2008 10:33:45 GMT
The double standards in the gaa is sickening, it is hilarious to watch mr Brennan going on about stamping out violence in our games, where, in reality, they will react if enough of a fuss is made of it in the media. A buddy of mine was at the cork armagh league game and the scenes in parnell park (dublin v meath) paled by comparison. Was anyone given massive suspensions there? Not at all. Also, I watched Seán Óg Ó hAilpín drive the butt of his hurl into another players face, but sure he is'nt a "dirty player". Likewise Diarmuid O Sullivan's assault on Joe Canning. Then we have analyists fobbing it off as part of the game???Not a whole pile of fuss made about any of it. The GAA and Mr Brennan must stop reacting to the whingers and holier than thous on Liveline and other Media outlets and have a bit of backbone. Paul Galvin was wrong in what he did but is entitled to appeal the severity of his sentence, and expect fair play. He has'nt been dealt with fairly. Also people are not entitled to personally abuse him, ala Joe Brolly last year and some idiot on this forum yesterday who said once a thug always a thug... Ihope he gets off with 3months and would love to see him lift Sam in Sept!
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Post by kerry07 on Jul 24, 2008 12:54:55 GMT
JUNE 17: THE Central Competitions Control Committee proposes a massive six-month suspensions for Galvin. Galvin is charged under Rule 146 (Section Four): Minor physical interference with (e.g. laying a hand on, pushing, pulling or jostling), threatening or abusive conduct towards, or threatening language to, a Referee, Umpire, Linesman or Sideline Official.
Penalty: (i) Minimum: 12 weeks Suspension in all Codes and at all Levels.
(ii) Minimum on Repeat Infraction: 24 weeks Suspension in all Codes and at all Levels.
JUNE 22: GAA President Nickey Brennan says players like Galvin are not being victimised.
“I think it is fairly clear what the attitude of our association is this year towards misbehaviour on the field. I think that has been well signposted and I hope I don’t need to reiterate it again. We will not tolerate any incidents and I don’t care who that is or what county they are from.”
Meanwhile 24 hrs later
JUNE 23: THE Central Hearings Committee imposes a 24 week ban on Galvin. A statement
issued the next day by Croke Park stated that “The Central Hearings Committee has imposed
a 24 weeks suspension on Paul Galvin of Kerry from the 15th June 2008. This suspension
relates to a category four offence and includes an 8 week suspension for a category two
offence which runs concurrently.” Kerry begin the Appeals process
JUNE 26: GALVIN fails in his appeal at the Central Appeals Committee, while Monaghan’s Paul
Finlay’s eight week ban was also upheld. He heads for the Disputes Resolution Authority.
And to my knowledge Brennan made another statement to the media while the DRA were
hearing the matter
Just a little food for thought........ Still happy that Paul is getting a fair hearing.
Kaywhy you can pick and choose your way through my post and when it is factual and
accurate you can refer selectively to whatever you like but the fact remains that only the
willfully blind cannot see whats happening. Collie Moran and Paul Finlay might have a view on
whatever they did as being accidental or perhaps misunderstood but from an ajudicators
point of view there story is but half the story.
On a final point some one on here suggested that the Rules of the association were effective
to deprive a member from resort to the courts to vindicate hid rights....That I can assure you
is absolute nonsence.
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Riocht
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Post by Riocht on Jul 24, 2008 13:14:39 GMT
Maith thú a Mhisteallaigh! Tá sé go léir ráite ansan agat.
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Post by kerry07 on Jul 25, 2008 8:44:31 GMT
Suspended Kerry captain Paul Galvin could have his latest Central Hearings Committee appeal heard as early as Friday night.
GAA chiefs are understood to be anxious to get the matter resolved as quickly as possible after the Disputes Resolution Authority referred Galvin’s case back to the Central Hearings Committee. Kerry will also be determined to have the case heard at the earliest possible time, as they will be in All-Ireland qualifier action in nine days’ time.
The GAA has confirmed it has yet to be informed of the nature of the ’procedural irregularities’ that forced the DRA to quash the Finuge clubman’s six-month ban which he received for knocking the notebook out of referee Paddy Russell’s hand during Kerry’s Munster SFC semi-final against Clare on June 15 last.
The GAA has stated that the "arrangements will be made for the new hearing to take place as early as possible" and refused to comment any further on the controversial case until the matter is resolved.
I LOOK FORWARD TO THE PUBLICATION OF THESE PROCEDURAL IRREGULARITIES THAT WERE SO SERIOUS TO MERIT COMPLETELY SETTING ASIDE THE EARLIER DECISION. I THINK THE ORDINARY MEMBERS ARE ENTITLED TO KNOW HOW OUR DISCIPLINARY SYSTEM OPERATES IN PRACTICE?
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Post by Owenabue on Jul 25, 2008 9:03:07 GMT
The double standards in the gaa is sickening, it is hilarious to watch mr Brennan going on about stamping out violence in our games, where, in reality, they will react if enough of a fuss is made of it in the media. A buddy of mine was at the cork armagh league game and the scenes in parnell park (dublin v meath) paled by comparison. Was anyone given massive suspensions there? Not at all. Also, I watched Seán Óg Ó hAilpín drive the butt of his hurl into another players face, but sure he is'nt a "dirty player". Likewise Diarmuid O Sullivan's assault on Joe Canning. Then we have analyists fobbing it off as part of the game???Not a whole pile of fuss made about any of it. The GAA and Mr Brennan must stop reacting to the whingers and holier than thous on Liveline and other Media outlets and have a bit of backbone. Paul Galvin was wrong in what he did but is entitled to appeal the severity of his sentence, and expect fair play. He has'nt been dealt with fairly. Also people are not entitled to personally abuse him, ala Joe Brolly last year and some idiot on this forum yesterday who said once a thug always a thug... Ihope he gets off with 3months and would love to see him lift Sam in Sept! I suggest you take off your Kerry glasses once in a while....
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jul 25, 2008 9:23:16 GMT
The double standards in the gaa is sickening, it is hilarious to watch mr Brennan going on about stamping out violence in our games, where, in reality, they will react if enough of a fuss is made of it in the media. A buddy of mine was at the cork armagh league game and the scenes in parnell park (dublin v meath) paled by comparison. Was anyone given massive suspensions there? Not at all. Also, I watched Seán Óg Ó hAilpín drive the butt of his hurl into another players face, but sure he is'nt a "dirty player". Likewise Diarmuid O Sullivan's assault on Joe Canning. Then we have analyists fobbing it off as part of the game???Not a whole pile of fuss made about any of it. The GAA and Mr Brennan must stop reacting to the whingers and holier than thous on Liveline and other Media outlets and have a bit of backbone. Paul Galvin was wrong in what he did but is entitled to appeal the severity of his sentence, and expect fair play. He has'nt been dealt with fairly. Also people are not entitled to personally abuse him, ala Joe Brolly last year and some idiot on this forum yesterday who said once a thug always a thug... Ihope he gets off with 3months and would love to see him lift Sam in Sept! I suggest you take off your Kerry glasses once in a while.... I suggest you post a worthwhile comment on your views rather than a smart ar*e one. Is Paul not entitled to appeal? Would a three month ban really be that unreasonable?
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kaywhy
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Post by kaywhy on Jul 25, 2008 9:32:28 GMT
I LOOK FORWARD TO THE PUBLICATION OF THESE PROCEDURAL IRREGULARITIES THAT WERE SO SERIOUS TO MERIT COMPLETELY SETTING ASIDE THE EARLIER DECISION. I THINK THE ORDINARY MEMBERS ARE ENTITLED TO KNOW HOW OUR DISCIPLINARY SYSTEM OPERATES IN PRACTICE? There are already over 70 DRA decisions available on their website for review. If the ordinary member wishes to learn a lot about how our disciplinary system operates in practise, then reviewing some of these would be a great place to start. Some have led to similar decisions. If however, its just Galvin's case, then it seems we'll unfortunately have to wait!.. "While the new committee will receive information supplied to Croke Park yesterday outlining the reasons why the DRA directed the case to be re-heard, a full explanation of what the DRA described as “procedural irregularities” won’t emerge for a while. DRA Secretary Liam Keane pointed out that the “full reasoned decision” won’t be published on their website until after the re-hearing of the case has taken place, as to do so now could prejudice the hearing. " "there was speculation that the DRA panel which heard the case may have taken issue with the policy of the Central Competitions Control Committee (CCCC) to double the minimum suspensions in all cases dealing with player offences involving a referee or other match official. The view may be taken that each individual case should be considered on its merits, rather than applying the policy across the board — which reportedly has been the case."
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Post by misteallaigh abú on Jul 25, 2008 12:48:44 GMT
Well Owenabue, I suggest that you get some perspective in your own views, what sean óg and Diarmuid o sullivan did last saturday has no place on any gaa pitch. Fair play is what Galvin is entitled to, just like any other player in the association, regardless of club or county.
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Post by Seoirse Ui Duic on Jul 25, 2008 12:54:53 GMT
Well Owenabue, I suggest that you get some perspective in your own views, what sean óg and Diarmuid o sullivan did last saturday has no place on any gaa pitch. Fair play is what Galvin is entitled to, just like any other player in the association, regardless of club or county. true. Don't judge others if you don't want to be judged yourself. Galvin did something stupid and deserves to be punished but so do many other players every year. Judgement should be the same for all. Prejudice and sports don't mix well together and always come back to haunt.
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kaywhy
Senior Member
Posts: 333
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Post by kaywhy on Jul 25, 2008 13:16:22 GMT
Good article by Colm Keys... www.independent.ieDRA model still best choice Friday July 25 2008 Won one, lost one, drew one. That was the outcome of the GAA's trilogy of cases before the Disputes Resolution Authority (DRA) played out on successive nights last week. The draw (Paul Galvin) required a replay and even after extra-time there was still stalemate. The win (Paul Finlay) was somewhat overshadowed by references in the Monaghan submission to case law that dated back to Victorian times in England. The loss (Colin Moran) was perhaps the most perplexing to the GAA since the inception of the of the DRA in 2005, given that the tribunal essentially took a pen to the original decision to suspend Moran and drew a line through it on the basis that it was delivered irrationally. Up to last week the common perception among GAA people was that the DRA gave judgments on procedures only but this was a new departure. It has shifted the goalposts considerably. Frustration In Kerry the prolonged case of Galvin is causing frustration and yesterday one of Jack O'Connor's selectors between 2004 and 2006 and a former player from the 'Golden Era', Ger O'Keeffe, underlined that sense of frustration yesterday. "In my opinion, if Paul Galvin in dealing with a court of law, then he would be walking out the door a free man because, based on their conclusions, that is the only decision they could come to. This decision is completely unsatisfactory and unjust and may well hasten the end of the DRA itself," said O'Keeffe. Harsh words but, without recourse to the text of the judgment and the reasons why they came to the conclusion they did, it is impossible to support O'Keeffe's viewpoint. For those of the opinion, like O'Keeffe, that the DRA is not worth it any more, it is important to remember that the GAA was never meant to control the authority in the first place. It is an independent body that makes decisions without regard for sentiment. It was a facility that was initially set up to divert the growing stream of cases that were winding up in the High Court involving GAA clubs and players. But little could its architects ever have thought that the flow being directed away from the High Court would turn into a deluge submerging the Dunshaughlin offices of its secretary Liam Keane, or that its decisions would carry such influence and its judgments would have such far-reaching consequences for the GAA's rule book. Since the establishment of the DRA in 2005 the GAA's disciplinary process has undergone more seismic change in its structures than at any stages in recent times. The frustration of O'Keeffe and others with the workings of the DRA begs an obvious question. Would their reaction be the same if a High Court judge had ruled in the same way and ordered that case go back almost to its origins? If a High Court judge had deemed the Moran suspension as any way irrational and struck it out would the sense of outcry be the same? Of course not. GAA people should be mindful that the DRA is merely replacing the role the High Court might otherwise have played had the Galvin, Moran and Finlay cases gone that way. Under the terms of their code, the DRA were entitled to send the Galvin case back for re-hearing as they did. They could also have exercised the option to strike out the case on the "procedural irregularities" that they found the original hearings contained, but that would have had far-reaching consequences for the GAA's disciplinary process and the tribunal may have been sensitive to that. In sending Galvin's case back they have offered the opportunity to 'regularise' their procedures. But they may also have afforded the opportunity to look at the case in a different light. The DRA model is still the best recourse the GAA has to legal opinion, better than the more costly and less expedient High Court route. The prospects of Galvin, Finlay and Moran all 'winning' injunctions at the High Court if they had pursued that route would have been high given the way their DRA cases have panned out. If there is a 'problem' with the DRA it is the great accessibility it affords to all members and units of the association. For €1,000 -- the fee used to be €500 -- most feel it is 'worth a shot'. Punitive Raising the fee substantially would be an option but that would be more punitive to the ordinary member or club than it would to the financial muscle of a county team that will always see the availability of a player as more important than upholding the disciplinary process of the GAA. Solicitors and barristers are sometimes known to waive their fees in defending county players, removing the financial load on counties associated with these cases. The records show that more often than not the DRA have upheld original decisions made by GAA disciplinary committees. In Moran's case there was a sense that natural justice was applied as his suspension may not have been justified in the first place. Three big cases last week have produced three different results. Like the courts of this land, DRA tribunals can have diversity of judgment based on opinions of the interpretation of rules. That is what the GAA bought into in the first place and that is what people must accept as long as the system remains in place. - Colm Keys
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Post by kerry07 on Jul 25, 2008 13:32:28 GMT
How can Paul Galvin conduct his defence if the reasons,identified deficiencies etc are not made known.I have read the decisions of the DRA and I fail to see what principles are being applied.How could a hearing be prejudiced by publication and or disclosure. I am unconvinced that this matter is being dealt with in a principled way. I am mistified how any ajudicator could be unduly influenced by disclosure of the reasoning applied to date. This whole approach is not a hearing process governed by impartiality fairness or proportionality It bears all the hall marks of predetermination bias and pervertion. This is the stuff of the "Star Chamber" and wouldn't last 10 minutes in the Courts of this land. Its a shocking indictment of the association a disgrace and a total embarracement. Brennan is not up to the Job simple as that
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Post by Owenabue on Jul 25, 2008 14:19:28 GMT
I suggest you take off your Kerry glasses once in a while.... I suggest you post a worthwhile comment on your views rather than a smart ar*e one. Is Paul not entitled to appeal? Would a three month ban really be that unreasonable? Sorry, but why is it just Cork cases have been pointed out? It is nothing to do with Galvin. Or to put it another way, Kerry players have got away with things as well, yet these haven't been listed. I have no views either way on the Galvin case. (I've been missing the last few days so I haven't have time to read up on it properly yet)
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Post by Owenabue on Jul 25, 2008 14:25:09 GMT
Well Owenabue, I suggest that you get some perspective in your own views, what sean óg and Diarmuid o sullivan did last saturday has no place on any gaa pitch. Fair play is what Galvin is entitled to, just like any other player in the association, regardless of club or county. Did I come on here saying that they were innocent? Should I be writing to Brennan and ask him to suspend the players in the interest of fairness? It is not my fault if the GAA didn't pull the lads on on what they did, nor have they pulled the Galway players up, so I suppose, it evens its self out. Please don't accuse me of something I didn't ever do.
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Post by nicoshea on Jul 25, 2008 15:52:36 GMT
Well Owenabue, I suggest that you get some perspective in your own views, what sean óg and Diarmuid o sullivan did last saturday has no place on any gaa pitch. Fair play is what Galvin is entitled to, just like any other player in the association, regardless of club or county. Did I come on here saying that they were innocent? Should I be writing to Brennan and ask him to suspend the players in the interest of fairness? It is not my fault if the GAA didn't pull the lads on on what they did, nor have they pulled the Galway players up, so I suppose, it evens its self out. Please don't accuse me of something I didn't ever do. Noone here thinks Galvin is innocent, But when the CLare and Cork Hurlers were suspended for fighting before the game even started ( and from what I recall they were only suspended for one month/one match) and they did all that in front of the children that were walking out with them. But there was serious very serious moaning and complaining up in Cork about how they were hard done by and were examples of the GAA.. Remember Clare threatening to pull out of the Championship Galvin is been made of a example of and noone can dispue that Cork last weekend were a disgrace Joe Deane, Cusask, O'Halpin and O'sullivan spring to mind and only one player was sent off, They barely mentioned the Sean Og and hurley in the eye incident on on the Saturday, and it was only brought up in the Sunday Game as people emailed in about it, So Kerry might have gotten away with incidents in the past, But Cork also have. Rememeber Anthony Lynchs Red Card and getting off on a Technacility... How quickly we forget
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Post by Owenabue on Jul 25, 2008 15:56:45 GMT
This is about Galvin, so don't use Cork's indiscipline as an excuse for him to get off. I'm fully aware of what Cork have got away with, and I don't need to be reminded. I haven't ever tried to defend what they have done either, unlike a lot of you here...
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Post by nicoshea on Jul 25, 2008 16:01:59 GMT
This is about Galvin, so don't use Cork's indiscipline as an excuse for him to get off. I'm fully aware of what Cork have got away with, and I don't need to be reminded. I haven't ever tried to defend what they have done either, unlike a lot of you here... We are not using Corks indiscipline to get Galvin off. Noone here thinks that Galvin should not be punished but we are just asking you to remember that Cork are not innocent.. If you can find someone who defends Galvins actions then I will hold my hand up and say I was wrong, but Galvin is 6 weeks into his suspension and is still hanging... Fair you think??
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Post by buck02 on Jul 25, 2008 16:11:23 GMT
This week we have seen a case where a player uses, what can be described as a deadly weapon, to strike a player in the face. The media, by and large, ignored the incident. The GAA authorities ignored the incident. In my opinion what O Halpin did was far worse that what Galvin did. Galvin slapped a note book. The butt of O Halpins hurl was about an inch from the Galway players eye.
The media decided to focus on the Galvin DRA case and the story about the young lad from Carlow and ignored St O hAlpin's actions. Was it because O hAlpin is the so called "Face of the GAA in the 21st Century".
When o hAlpins agent confirms his next few (ahem) appointements for handing out medals to Under 12s, I wonder will any of those receiving medals from their hero think "He did it and got away with it, I might try to the same to my opponent in the next game, I wonder will the butt of my hurl fit through the 11 year olds faceguard".
Galvin did wrong. He got a 6 month ban. He was front and back page news for weeks. His family was hounded my the media. His personal life was splashed about in Sunday papers.
O hAlpin does wrong. He gets no ban. He gets no media attention. He gets the few bob to hand out medals and appear in tv and newspaper ads.
Double standards anyone?
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Post by mickthebridges on Jul 25, 2008 16:21:28 GMT
This is about Galvin, so don't use Cork's indiscipline as an excuse for him to get off. I'm fully aware of what Cork have got away with, and I don't need to be reminded. I haven't ever tried to defend what they have done either, unlike a lot of you here... We are not using Corks indiscipline to get Galvin off. Noone here thinks that Galvin should not be punished but we are just asking you to remember that Cork are not innocent.. If you can find someone who defends Galvins actions then I will hold my hand up and say I was wrong, but Galvin is 6 weeks into his suspension and is still hanging... Fair you think?? Hands up NIC, I'm defending Paul's actions. He was harrassed for over half an hour by that Clare fecker John Hayes and when he went to the linesman to complain all he got was more abuse. We all know Paul is a very sporting and clean player and he begged the linesman to take action. Ger O Keefe is right to complain about the treatment Paul is getting. His summer is ruined by the actions of the DRA and all them other groups set up by Crok Park. I'd blame Paddy Russell for all this. He's a right bucko also.
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Post by Owenabue on Jul 25, 2008 16:25:28 GMT
What Cork players do has nothing to do with if Galvin should get off or get 6 months. Double standards if you like is them not dragging Darragh up for the punch in the Munster final. Or is it that the Ó Sé's are Gaa darlings as well?
As for the comments about the Ó hAilpíns, that's defamatry.
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