kot
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Post by kot on Jul 20, 2023 20:11:22 GMT
Gough for the final, we’ve had to overcome one old foe in the middle this year….. time for the next 😃
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Post by greengold35 on Jul 20, 2023 20:46:34 GMT
Gough for the final, we’ve had to overcome one old foe in the middle this year….. time for the next 😃 The list of championship refs features a pretty average bunch - Henry, Molloy, Gilmartin, Lane, McNally, Cullen to name but a few - think Hurson & Gough are the best by far - Hurson did last year’s final & Dublin/Monaghan semi - Gough the only choice after that.
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Post by thehermit on Jul 20, 2023 21:19:22 GMT
Gough for the final, we’ve had to overcome one old foe in the middle this year….. time for the next 😃 Look its all already been said before the final in 2019 (never mind the semi in 2016) about the issues with Gough being in charge of any match involving Dublin given the ridiculously close connections. No point rehashing it except to say in NO other sport in the world would this be remotely allowed. I'll go back to the incident in the Premier League in 2016 as an example. Leicester were well on their way to the most unlikeliest of all titles. They had a routine midweek game sometime in Feb or March. The referee that was initially chosen was asked to step aside when it came to light that he had actually attended a Leicester game as a spectator some months before. Now that's what the Premier League were willing to do to ensure there was no accusations whatever of untoward bias in that season's title race.
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Post by southward on Jul 20, 2023 21:25:02 GMT
Gough for the final, we’ve had to overcome one old foe in the middle this year….. time for the next 😃 The list of championship refs features a pretty average bunch - Henry, Molloy, Gilmartin, Lane, McNally, Cullen to name but a few - think Hurson & Gough are the best by far - Hurson did last year’s final & Dublin/Monaghan semi - Gough the only choice after that. Yeah, Hurson is probably the best in the business at present. Conor Lane much improved over the years too. Gough knows his stuff, has eyes in the back of his head and isn't afraid of the big calls, though maybe partial to a bit of drama at times.
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Post by royalkerryfan on Jul 20, 2023 21:34:42 GMT
Back to the game,
Dublin this year have aggressively gone after opposition kickouts with a very good press.
I think they'll feel they can get at our midfield by making Ryan go long.
We need to be very conscious of this and have plenty of runners and a ferocity around breaking balls.
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Post by john4 on Jul 20, 2023 21:38:43 GMT
The list of championship refs features a pretty average bunch - Henry, Molloy, Gilmartin, Lane, McNally, Cullen to name but a few - think Hurson & Gough are the best by far - Hurson did last year’s final & Dublin/Monaghan semi - Gough the only choice after that. Yeah, Hurson is probably the best in the business at present. Conor Lane much improved over the years too. Gough knows his stuff, has eyes in the back of his head and isn't afraid of the big calls, though maybe partial to a bit of drama at times. There were instances in previous years where refereeing decisions and analysis of referees performances was way overdone on TV during the live broadcast and more so in the evening Sunday game show. IMO this is not so much of a thing anymore for whatever reason and I think the performances of referees has improved as a result of the fact that I believe that they don't hold the same fear of criticism for a "mistake" In general it seems to me that matches have been more free flowing this year and maybe referees are just letting things flow more. But I think overanalyzing refereeing decisions will result in a level of unhealthy paranoia amongst referees
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G_S_J
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With greatness already assured, history now awaits.
Posts: 647
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Post by G_S_J on Jul 20, 2023 21:56:51 GMT
I feel last year we were a good deal better then Dublin before Seanie missed the pen, that effected us mentally and we bottled it a bit before Seanie redeemed himself, if that's putting it mildly. Fast forward a year, I think we're a better side and that is because we are mentally stronger now that monkey is off our backs. We are so confident in the final stretch in tight games now, something it must be said the last Kerry team to do a double lacked on occasion. But likewise Dublin are stronger with a fit Con and the return of Mannion and McCaffrey, which has somewhat neutralised our gains.
Still, I know it's not scientific but these rivalries are cyclical and it seems to be turning now in our direction. Lost in 2011, 2015 and 2019 finals. In our history it usually doesn't stay as one sided for much longer.
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Post by john4 on Jul 20, 2023 22:12:02 GMT
I feel last year we were a good deal better then Dublin before Seanie missed the pen, that effected us mentally and we bottled it a bit before Seanie redeemed himself, if that's putting it mildly. Fast forward a year, I think we're a better side and that is because we are mentally stronger now that monkey is off our backs. We are so confident in the final stretch in tight games now, something it must be said the last Kerry team to do a double lacked on occasion. But likewise Dublin are stronger with a fit Con and the return of Mannion and McCaffrey, which has somewhat neutralised our gains. Still, I know it's not scientific but these rivalries are cyclical and it seems to be turning now in our direction. Lost in 2011, 2015 and 2019 finals. In our history it usually doesn't stay as one sided for much longer. In 2019 a few of the current team ie. David Clifford, Sean O'Sé, Jason Foley, Dara Moynihan, Diarmuid O'Connor were 20/21, That's very young to go toe to toe with a seasoned I/C team as Dublin. They're 4 years further down the road and in a great place at the moment physically and the losses they've endured in their first years at I/C seems to have developed within them a resilience which is helping them to grind out some dirty wins in the last 2 years.
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Post by royalkerryfan on Jul 20, 2023 22:33:29 GMT
The advantage Dublin held over Kerry in 2019 was experience.
They had the experience of going to the cliff edge with Mayo.
We had a team of kids, reliant on DC and Seanie to take on a team of Dublins experience very nearly paid off.
Are Dublin better now ? No.
Kerry went through further hard lessons in 2020 and 2021.
Kerry then started to win games in tight positions that they would have lost previously.
Mayo league Armagh away Dublin Semi Galway Final Derry Semi.
They now know how to react, remain composed and take the right options.
2 other factors,
We have a very astute management team who tend to get the big calls right.
&
We are physically at our peak.
I saw a picture of the 2019 replay taken at the final whistle and I was struck with how young David Clifford and Seanie were.
They are men now and I really expect them to power into this final.
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Post by taggert on Jul 20, 2023 22:47:02 GMT
The winning of the game for me will be the ouput and contribution of our forwards outside of Seanie and David. Be it workrate, turnovers, creating chances, winning frees or taking scores, this is the key variable for me. I think the Derry game will bring us on a lot and having chinned Derry, Tyrone, Galway and Dublin in the most pressurised games in Croker this last 12 months, it should really have strengthened the mental resilience and confidence of this group. Too few delivered against Derry and we can't rely on DC repeating his Derry and Galway heroics....
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Post by royalkerryfan on Jul 20, 2023 22:48:59 GMT
The winning of the game for me will be the ouput and contribution of our forwards outside of Seanie and David. Be it workrate, turnovers, creating chances, winning frees or taking scores, this is the key variable for me. I think the Derry game will bring us on a lot and having chinned Derry, Tyrone, Galway and Dublin in the most pressurised games in Croker this last 12 months, it should really have strengthened the mental resilience and confidence of this group. Too few delivered against Derry and we can't rely on DC repeating his Derry and Galway heroics.... I'm actually expecting a big game from Geaney. He has it in him and he'll want a good final after last year's game didn't go his way.
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Post by homerj on Jul 21, 2023 7:30:27 GMT
I wouldn't say Hill 16 is all that appealing for most when the Dubs are in town. Hence why plenty opt for a swap. I also wouldn't say it matters a whole pile. In 2019 the whole stadium was like Hill 16, practically bouncing in that last couple of minutes when the Dubs supporters knew the 5 in-a-row had been achieved. I've any amount of examples but Seánie Shéas last minute beaut into the Hill is a memory that will live long. Ya the teenagers in my family going the hill for all games but won't be allowed in there for the final. That said if we get 3000 tickets for it, we should keep every one of them. Mayo do it
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Post by homerj on Jul 21, 2023 7:36:29 GMT
Any word yet on an after match function Sunday night?
Hope there's something on sat night too as generally it's hard enough to get something worthwhil
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horsebox77
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Post by horsebox77 on Jul 21, 2023 7:45:26 GMT
The winning of the game for me will be the ouput and contribution of our forwards outside of Seanie and David. Be it workrate, turnovers, creating chances, winning frees or taking scores, this is the key variable for me. I think the Derry game will bring us on a lot and having chinned Derry, Tyrone, Galway and Dublin in the most pressurised games in Croker this last 12 months, it should really have strengthened the mental resilience and confidence of this group. Too few delivered against Derry and we can't rely on DC repeating his Derry and Galway heroics.... I'm actually expecting a big game from Geaney. He has it in him and he'll want a good final after last year's game didn't go his way. I completely agree, I was out for a pint after the Derry game and one lad was saying that Geaney did nothing, when I pointed out he was directly involved in White's goal and the goal chance earlier, he quietened down, also won a free in the Davin/Hogan corner, a tap over when badly wanted. Geaney invariably plays well against Dublin, think of the inside line, Dublin will play primary focus on DC and Seanie when inside, similar to 2014, Donegal's primary focus was Donaghy and James, as a result Geaney was afforded space. In reality, this may also be Geaney's last big day out, that alone is a huge incentive. Another thing, I can see an aerial bombardment on Sunday, DC, Geaney and Seanie when inside, all god over the head, I can see a significant volume of our scores coming from marks.
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Post by homerj on Jul 21, 2023 7:47:24 GMT
Re aerial bombardment...it cost us the 2019 game in my opinion. We persisted with it and lost almost every ball until we were 4 points down.
Those days are long gone now. You'd get aways with 2 or 3 per game, over 70+ mins. Not 5 in the first 15 mins. Possession and scores off turnovers are vital.
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horsebox77
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Post by horsebox77 on Jul 21, 2023 7:47:42 GMT
Any word yet on an after match function Sunday night? Hope there's something on sat night too as generally it's hard enough to get something worthwhil Limerick and Kilkenny both comin home, i envisage due to costs, but in Limerick's case, JP is all about Limerick, would rather promote and finance the woodlands, as apposed to a Dublin Central Hotel.... and he's right... Kerry could be on a plane and home as quick...
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Post by homerj on Jul 21, 2023 7:49:24 GMT
Any word yet on an after match function Sunday night? Hope there's something on sat night too as generally it's hard enough to get something worthwhil Limerick and Kilkenny both comin home, i envisage due to costs, but in Limerick's case, JP is all about Limerick, would rather promote and finance the woodlands, as apposed to a Dublin Central Hotel.... and he's right... Kerry could be on a plane and home as quick... Kerry are staying up. Limerick only doing it as they are sick of it and want privacy to be together as a group. Kilkenny are home by 8.00. Limerick if they left by 6.30 they hit adare by 8.30
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horsebox77
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Post by horsebox77 on Jul 21, 2023 7:51:44 GMT
Re aerial bombardment...it cost us the 2019 game in my opinion. We persisted were it and lost almost every ball until we were 4 points down. Those days are long gone now I'm not talking the Donaghy and Walsh days of plan A, kick it in high, plan B, kick it in higher. Maybe Aerial bombardment is the wrong phrase, more the mark by Spillane last Sunday.. on average teams get between two and four marks per game, I can see Kerry going for five, six etc.. instead of taking the man on, we may, initially, be more concerned with getting scores on the board, safe scores...
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Post by royalkerryfan on Jul 21, 2023 8:52:23 GMT
The problem with 2019 was we didn't change the long ball in thr first half when it wasn't working.
We went away from our approach in the drawn game that worked well.
I expect a few long balls too as we have been doing so this year.
If we win the throw in I expect a long ball straight in to Seanie.
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G_S_J
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With greatness already assured, history now awaits.
Posts: 647
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Post by G_S_J on Jul 21, 2023 9:03:02 GMT
I feel last year we were a good deal better then Dublin before Seanie missed the pen, that effected us mentally and we bottled it a bit before Seanie redeemed himself, if that's putting it mildly. Fast forward a year, I think we're a better side and that is because we are mentally stronger now that monkey is off our backs. We are so confident in the final stretch in tight games now, something it must be said the last Kerry team to do a double lacked on occasion. But likewise Dublin are stronger with a fit Con and the return of Mannion and McCaffrey, which has somewhat neutralised our gains. Still, I know it's not scientific but these rivalries are cyclical and it seems to be turning now in our direction. Lost in 2011, 2015 and 2019 finals. In our history it usually doesn't stay as one sided for much longer. Good post but when you mean our history is it just Kerry or Kerry and Dublin's history together. We beat Dubs in 75 when the were favourites and they beat us in 76 when we were favourites. Dubs won semi in 77.Kerry bt Dubs in all ireland finals 78 79 84 85 and quarter 2001 2004 semi 2007 and quarter 09 so we beat Dublin 8 times in a row before the tide turned in 11 with them winning then semi 13 and 16 and finals 15 and 19 so they won 5 times in a row before we won again last year. I was referring to just the finals and more our history I suppose. When you lay it out like that though, we've been through an historically tough period for Kerry. Five losses in a row to Dublin in little over a decade, five times knocked out. I think we can all still feel that in the pit of our stomach and I'm sure the players do also. Enough fuel to fire a generation you would hope.
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G_S_J
Senior Member
With greatness already assured, history now awaits.
Posts: 647
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Post by G_S_J on Jul 21, 2023 9:05:20 GMT
Limerick and Kilkenny both comin home, i envisage due to costs, but in Limerick's case, JP is all about Limerick, would rather promote and finance the woodlands, as apposed to a Dublin Central Hotel.... and he's right... Kerry could be on a plane and home as quick... Kerry are staying up. Limerick only doing it as they are sick of it and want privacy to be together as a group. Kilkenny are home by 8.00. Limerick if they left by 6.30 they hit adare by 8.30 Will people be mad at us again for doing our due diligence and organising a post game party?
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Post by homerj on Jul 21, 2023 9:21:59 GMT
Kerry are staying up. Limerick only doing it as they are sick of it and want privacy to be together as a group. Kilkenny are home by 8.00. Limerick if they left by 6.30 they hit adare by 8.30 Will people be mad at us again for doing our due diligence and organising a post game party? Nobody got mad for the event. It was how it was worded. They need to position it as a function and not a party
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Post by thehermit on Jul 21, 2023 9:51:58 GMT
The winning of the game for me will be the ouput and contribution of our forwards outside of Seanie and David. Be it workrate, turnovers, creating chances, winning frees or taking scores, this is the key variable for me. I think the Derry game will bring us on a lot and having chinned Derry, Tyrone, Galway and Dublin in the most pressurised games in Croker this last 12 months, it should really have strengthened the mental resilience and confidence of this group. Too few delivered against Derry and we can't rely on DC repeating his Derry and Galway heroics.... I'm actually expecting a big game from Geaney. He has it in him and he'll want a good final after last year's game didn't go his way. Might potentially be he's last ever game for Kerry too!
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kerryexile
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Post by kerryexile on Jul 21, 2023 10:57:34 GMT
Paul could be vital for attacking marks. With David getting so much attention one option for points is for David to pull players to the corner/wing and Paul field it in the centre. Marks should be limited to players or situations where the point is nearly certain from the kick. Being a good fielder and very accurate Paul is the ideal target man.
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Post by Annascaultilidie on Jul 21, 2023 11:00:20 GMT
I think Geaney is like POM in another code. He starts or doesn't play at all.
I think he was quiet against Dublin last year, scoreless. Kerry need more and it is a concern someone hasn't taken the jersey off him.
I have been a massive fan over the years but sentiment won't come into his selection or otherwise.
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horsebox77
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Our trees & mountains are silent ghosts, they hold wisdom and knowledge mankind has long forgotten.
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Post by horsebox77 on Jul 21, 2023 11:47:46 GMT
it is a concern someone hasn't taken the jersey off him.. That is exactly the point, ok granted, injury has curtailed Killian but the top four others at county championship level, Dara Roche, Donal Down, Tony Brosnan, Paul's own relative Dylan.. neither of this top cohort of club player dislodged Paul and going on form, one would have to agree....
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Post by greengold35 on Jul 21, 2023 12:31:16 GMT
I think Geaney is like POM in another code. He starts or doesn't play at all. I think he was quiet against Dublin last year, scoreless. Kerry need more and it is a concern someone hasn't taken the jersey off him. I have been a massive fan over the years but sentiment won't come into his selection or otherwise. Think Paul has suffered somewhat due to David’s brilliance - I rewatched last Sundays game last night & reckon 80% of ball to inside line went David’s way - might change for final due to Dublin likely dropping a man back in front of David.
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Post by glengael on Jul 21, 2023 13:13:53 GMT
There appear to be extra train service up on Irish Rail website for Sunday 30th.
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Post by greenandgold on Jul 21, 2023 13:19:05 GMT
While he hasnt had the scoring impact id like or expect to see- i thin Paul G is a smart player- his running and positioning helps make space and drag some defenders out. Also he knows how to win a free (or penalty as against Cork) - his conversion rate does seem to be down this year though- would be great to see it lift. In truth I dont think we have the subs to put pressure on his place and he is far leas likely to make mistake/wrong devision than some of the subs
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Post by homerj on Jul 21, 2023 14:53:56 GMT
There appear to be extra train service up on Irish Rail website for Sunday 30th. seems plenty of availability from Limerick too.
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