kot
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Post by kot on Oct 6, 2021 12:19:45 GMT
Jesus I listened to that Brian McAvoy fella the other night. Forget about any progressive change while his type try to inflate the importance of their own position.
He was a shambles, torn to shreds by Gilroy & Sheehan. Tripping over himself and contradicting himself almost with every sentence and when he was then being pulled up on it, shouting over the presenters........ and this type of fella is in a position of influence in deciding the future structure of the GAA.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Oct 6, 2021 13:24:42 GMT
Ulster championship makes money and has a lot of prestige attached for the counties involved. While option b keeps the provincals they are greatly reduced in importance and will be more akin to pre season competitions than what they are now. Also its fairly likely that in the short term anyway the likes of monaghan,cavan,armagh and Donegal will be fighting hard to make the ai series. Judging by the league the last few years kerry,dublin, Tyrone and maybe mayo are probably the only dead certs to be top 6 every year how about instead of 4 provinces turn it into 2, keep Ulster as is and amalgamate Munster Connacht and leinster with Kerry Cork Clare, Galway Mayo Roscommon, and dublin Kildare and Meath playing off in a combined championship. There are some good teams at a pretty high level.
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Post by dc84 on Oct 6, 2021 13:39:48 GMT
Ulster championship makes money and has a lot of prestige attached for the counties involved. While option b keeps the provincals they are greatly reduced in importance and will be more akin to pre season competitions than what they are now. Also its fairly likely that in the short term anyway the likes of monaghan,cavan,armagh and Donegal will be fighting hard to make the ai series. Judging by the league the last few years kerry,dublin, Tyrone and maybe mayo are probably the only dead certs to be top 6 every year how about instead of 4 provinces turn it into 2, keep Ulster as is and amalgamate Munster Connacht and leinster with Kerry Cork Clare, Galway Mayo Roscommon, and dublin Kildare and Meath playing off in a combined championship. There are some good teams at a pretty high level. And what give them equal representatives in knockouts Ulster isnt that good. The league format is the only way to go imo its the most fair. There needs to be a few tweaks re the knockout though.id love to see Top 4 in div 1 go straight into quarter finals. With top 2 getting choice of venue. Bottom 4 of div 1 and top 3 of div2 and div 3 winners play preliminary quarters. Everyone else in a straight knockout intermediate AI with winner guaranteed 4 home league matches in next years league and team holiday.
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Post by Annascaultilidie on Oct 6, 2021 13:43:37 GMT
One thing I always thought might work would be to run competitions concurrently. I am loathe to reference other sports, but like a cup and league in e.g. soccer.
You could have the League-Championship running concurrently with the provincial championships.
I always thought it would be good to run league concurrent with championship but there is no need of that now in Plan B where the League is part of the Championship.
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Post by onlykerry on Oct 6, 2021 15:03:13 GMT
The Kerry solution to the problem should surely be based on the successful Kerry county championship model.
8 teams from Division 1 (at the end of the league meaning after promotion and relegation are decided) with the remaining 24 counties creating 8 "divisional" sides to create a 16 team championship slate. Four groups of 4 with 2 to qualify for the quarter finals, semi finals and final. Groups to have 2 divisional sides plus 2 from Div 1.
Guarantees every county 10 games each year and with a suitable county season could give a better training to games ratio. Yes I am agreeing to abandon/relegate the provincial championship but other than in Ulster that is probably the reality anyway.
Drop the charade of a meaningful B championship.
Divisional sides should have some rules with regard to their composition - that would really shake it up and give more people a chance of winning an AI.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Oct 6, 2021 15:21:52 GMT
how about instead of 4 provinces turn it into 2, keep Ulster as is and amalgamate Munster Connacht and leinster with Kerry Cork Clare, Galway Mayo Roscommon, and dublin Kildare and Meath playing off in a combined championship. There are some good teams at a pretty high level. And what give them equal representatives in knockouts Ulster isnt that good. The league format is the only way to go imo its the most fair. There needs to be a few tweaks re the knockout though.id love to see Top 4 in div 1 go straight into quarter finals. With top 2 getting choice of venue. Bottom 4 of div 1 and top 3 of div2 and div 3 winners play preliminary quarters. Everyone else in a straight knockout intermediate AI with winner guaranteed 4 home league matches in next years league and team holiday. I'd say Ulster is the sacred cow in football just like Munster is in the hurling, Ulster football championship was excellent this year and I got to see a lot of it on the BBC.
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Post by dc84 on Oct 6, 2021 20:09:17 GMT
It wont happen anyway need 66% I believe to be ratified. Is it one delegate per county or what way does it work ? Listening to the Ulster secretary on otb the other day id say all or at least 7 or 8 up north will vote the status quo. That would be 28% gone straight away if my maths are right all you need then is 3 other counties to not vote for b and it's dead in the water. Hard to see anyone who vote for option a it changes nothing positively only means a few teams get hammered in a different province.
What is the status quo I assume it is super 8s for at least one more year or is it back to qualifiers as pre 2017? I hope it's super 8s at least they could work better now that dublin are beatable it seems.
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Post by Mickmack on Oct 6, 2021 20:25:35 GMT
The Ulster footballers are in favour apparently
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Post by buck02 on Oct 7, 2021 6:53:55 GMT
78% of the players surveyed by the GPA are in favour of Proposal B.
The CPA disbanded earlier this year after their aim to bring a split season proposal to the table was successful.
But the old heads stuck in the past will still ensure that Proposal C (no change, everything is fine) will easily win the today from everything I've heard so far.
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Post by piggott on Oct 7, 2021 8:27:12 GMT
Likely that status quo remains. If option B could be amended, so that top 12 go into Sam Maguire, and next 20 play for Tailtean it might have a chance. top 4 go straight into quarters and would be seeded. 5 to 12 play preliminary quarters to qualify for quarters.
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Post by dc84 on Oct 7, 2021 11:08:13 GMT
The Ulster footballers are in favour apparently They don't have a vote , the provincal councils will ensure that this will fail unfortunately. There is the issue of sponsorship aswell if the league and championship are one do allianz have to be compensated?
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Post by givehimaball on Oct 7, 2021 14:30:40 GMT
The Ulster footballers are in favour apparently They don't have a vote , the provincal councils will ensure that this will fail unfortunately. There is the issue of sponsorship aswell if the league and championship are one do allianz have to be compensated? Long past time the provincial councils were done away with. A completely unneeded level of bureacracy in this day and age. I would imagine an absolutely massive chunk of the work of the four different provincial councils would be completed more efficiently and much cheaper if it was centralised in Croke Park and I'd imagine virtually nothing would be lost.
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Post by givehimaball on Oct 7, 2021 14:37:07 GMT
It wont happen anyway need 66% I believe to be ratified. Is it one delegate per county or what way does it work ? Listening to the Ulster secretary on otb the other day id say all or at least 7 or 8 up north will vote the status quo. That would be 28% gone straight away if my maths are right all you need then is 3 other counties to not vote for b and it's dead in the water. Hard to see anyone who vote for option a it changes nothing positively only means a few teams get hammered in a different province. What is the status quo I assume it is super 8s for at least one more year or is it back to qualifiers as pre 2017? I hope it's super 8s at least they could work better now that dublin are beatable it seems. It's 60% and the status quo is qualifiers (with Tailteann Cup) no Super 8. The fact that 80% of the GPA (and 90% of GPA reps and captains) are in favour of Opition B means that this issue isn't going away any time soon. I really can't see the GPA being at all happy if delegates ignore the clear wishes of the players. If, as everyone is predicting, neither Option A or B gets the required 60%, there will surely be another Special Congress again before long to deal with the issue of the championship structure.
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Post by Mickmack on Oct 7, 2021 14:40:08 GMT
It wont happen anyway need 66% I believe to be ratified. Is it one delegate per county or what way does it work ? Listening to the Ulster secretary on otb the other day id say all or at least 7 or 8 up north will vote the status quo. That would be 28% gone straight away if my maths are right all you need then is 3 other counties to not vote for b and it's dead in the water. Hard to see anyone who vote for option a it changes nothing positively only means a few teams get hammered in a different province. What is the status quo I assume it is super 8s for at least one more year or is it back to qualifiers as pre 2017? I hope it's super 8s at least they could work better now that dublin are beatable it seems. It's 60% and the status quo is qualifiers (with Tailteann Cup) no Super 8. The fact that 78% of the GPA are in favour of Opition B means that this issue isn't going away any time soon. I really can't see the GPA being at all happy if delegates ignore the clear wishes of the players. If, as everyone is predicting, neither Option A or B gets the required 60%, there will surely be another Special Congress again before long to deal with the issue of the championship structure. Do counties with more clubs get more votes etc. Or does Leitrim have the same clout as Cork
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Post by givehimaball on Oct 7, 2021 15:02:06 GMT
It's 60% and the status quo is qualifiers (with Tailteann Cup) no Super 8. The fact that 80% of the GPA are in favour of Opition B means that this issue isn't going away any time soon. I really can't see the GPA being at all happy if delegates ignore the clear wishes of the players. If, as everyone is predicting, neither Option A or B gets the required 60%, there will surely be another Special Congress again before long to deal with the issue of the championship structure. Do counties with more clubs get more votes etc. Or does Leitrim have the same clout as Cork This was the number of delegates at the special Congress that was held in April 2020. I presume it's still the same. I went looking for the 14 overseas "counties" and I could only find 13 - 7 in Britain and 6 others. Gloucestershire, Hertfordshire, Lancashire, London, Scotland, Warwickshire and Yorkshire Asian, Australasia, Canadian, Europe, New York, United States If all 67 delegates are there, then 41 votes would be need to approve either of the two options. If neither of the two Options gets approved, then the status quo "option" is the one that will be used for at least another year. www.irishexaminer.com/sport/gaa/arid-30994370.html
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Post by Mickmack on Oct 11, 2021 7:50:45 GMT
Premium Option on the table for radical changing of All-Ireland football championship fails logic and fairness tests
Martin Breheny In the most far-reaching attempt at reform of the All-Ireland football championship in GAA history, a proposal to restrict entry to ten counties will be discussed by Special Congress in two weeks’ time. Martin Breheny argues that it’s illogical, and suggests alternatives 2 October 11 2021 02:30 AM
An All-Ireland football championship with only ten counties involved? Not the ten highest-ranked either, but rather a mixture from all four divisions. A championship without Mayo? Of course. They shouldn’t have been there last year, a season when they reached the All-Ireland final.
Kerry? Sorry, lads, you shouldn’t have been in the race for Sam Maguire in 2013-2014-2015, seasons they won one All-Ireland and reached another final.
Monaghan? You wouldn’t have been eligible in any of the last three seasons or indeed in 2016.
Donegal? You shouldn’t have won the 2012 All-Ireland because you had no right to be in the championship.
These are not the demented ramblings of nasty elements intent on destroying the championship, but rather a glimpse of the future if one of the proposed new All-Ireland formats is accepted by Special Congress next Saturday week.
It’s Option B of the Fixtures Calendar Review Task Force’s proposals for reform of the GAA’s football competitions structure, where the provincial campaigns play no role in the championship. Instead, the Allianz Leagues decides which ten counties play in the premier competition.
Here’s the really controversial part –only ten counties qualify for the championship: top five in Division 1, top three in Division 2; winners Divisions 3 and 4.
The season would end at the conclusion of the league for the bottom three in Division 1 and the bottom five in Division 2. Only the winners of Divisions 3 and 4 enter the All-Ireland race, with the rest heading for a secondary championship (Tailteann Cup). Some top teams are also excluded.
Hence the earlier references to Mayo, Kerry, Monaghan and Donegal, all of whom finished in the bottom three in Div 1 at various times over the last six seasons years . There are several others too, whose bottom-three finish would have had similar repercussions.
Galway, Roscommon and Monaghan would not have been allowed into the All-Ireland race proper this year; Meath, Mayo and Monaghan wouldn’t have been there in 2020, Monaghan, Roscommon and Cavan in 2019, Mayo, Donegal and Kildare in 2018, Tyrone, Cavan and Roscommon in 2017; Monaghan, Cork or Down in 2016.
Designating the league as the basis for a new championship system has merit, but not in the illogical manner proposed. The purpose of a league is to produce merit-based placings after a specific number of rounds, resulting in promotion and relegation.
If the league is to be given status as the entry mechanism to the championship, it must be fair to everybody.
Instead, counties who finish sixth, seventh and eighth In in Division 1 are barred from the championship, whereas those who finish numbers nine, 10, 11, 17 and 25 are waved into the knock-out stages.
Similarly, counties which finish fourth through eighth in Division 2 are excluded while the winners of Divisions 3 and 4 qualify for preliminary quarter-finals.
The provincial championships are fundamentally unfair because of the different number of counties and varying standards around the country. That has long been accepted, but there was a reluctance to end their status as the launch pad for the championships on the basis that they been part of the GAA fabric since its foundation.
They also gave counties another title to aim for and, from a public perspective, local rivalry always held a special attraction. Still, their time is up.
But if the provincials, which would be played as standalone early season competitions under Option B proposals, are to lose their status as part of the All-Ireland championship, their replacement needs to be, at the very least, more equitable than what went before.
That’s not the case. How can it be justified to exclude counties with league placings of sixth, seventh and eighth while five others with lower rankings qualify?
And there’s more. Take the case of a team which finishes sixth in Division 1. They aren’t eligible for that season’s championship, but will be in Division 1 again for the following year, where they may again miss out as they are up against the best in the business.
Meanwhile, the teams that finish seventh and eighth are relegated to Division 2, giving them a much better chance of being in All-Ireland contention in the following season.
It can be argued that there’s a higher medium-term reward in championship terms for being relegated in the league.
If the league/championship system applied this year, the ten teams qualifying for the Sam Maguire tier would have been: Dublin, Kerry, Donegal, Tyrone, Armagh (Div 1), Mayo, Kildare, Clare or Meath (Div 2), Derry (Div 3), Antrim or Louth (Div 4).
The season would have stopped at the end of the league for, among others, Monaghan, Galway, Roscommon, Cork, Down, Clare and Meath. Division 3 and 4 teams, others than Derry, Antrim or Louth (the Div 4 final wasn’t played) would compete in the Tailteann Cup.
The rationale behind allowing those ranked 9th, 10th, 11th, 17th, and 25th into the All-Ireland series ahead of higher-placed teams is that incentives must be given counties in Divisions 2, 3 and 4. Fine in theory, but not in practice since it involves clear injustices.
Those who favour the proposal – and they include the GPA who are backing it enthusiastically – argue that because the league decides who qualifies for the All-Ireland stages, it would, in effect, be a championship, generating great excitement and attracting large crowds.
Even if that were the case – and it’s by no means certain – it doesn’t alter the fact that five of the ten counties qualifying for the championship are lower-ranked than several who are eliminated.
While Option B makes a total break from the existing system, Option A seeks to rebalance the provinces into four groups of eight.
The only plus point is that it streamlines fixtures. Otherwise, it merely reinforces inequality.
Lowest-ranked Leinster and Ulster counties, as per league placings, would play off in preliminary games in their own provinces, with the losers (three in Leinster and one in Ulster) then moving to Connacht and Munster in a 2-2 divide, so as to have eight teams in all four areas.
Each province would split into round-robin groups, ensuring three games for every county. The top two in each group would advance to the Sam Maguire tier, with the remainder (providing they were from Divisions 3 and 4), playing in the Tailteann Cup.
This system means that having already failed against fellow lower-ranked counties in their own province, two Leinster counties would then head for Munster for a three-game round robin. One Leinster and one Ulster (almost certainly Antrim) county would play in Connacht on a similar basis.
Frankly, it’s ridiculous that after being beaten once in their own province, a team is shunted off to another province for inclusion in a round-robin which will feature some very strong teams. What purpose would that serve?
A third option would see a return to the provincial and qualifier system, with a decision to be taken on whether to use the ‘Super 8s’ or straight knock-out quarter-finals. That general framework is no longer regarded as satisfactory and is the reason why the current proposals are on the agenda.
There has been relatively little debate on them, which carries the risk of one slipping through (a 60 per cent majority suffices). It certainly wouldn’t be the first time that the GAA made a significant change without much reaction at the time, only for howls of protest once the implications became apparent when the new scenario came up for actual implementation.
The best option for Congress is to decide on a return to the drawing board. And this time, insist that logic and fairness are the first essentials.
Alternative options for championship OPTION 1 Use the League’s finishing places as the starting point for the championship, but not in the limited format proposed where only ten counties would be admitted. Instead, allow all teams into the championship but stagger entry as follows: Round 1: Div 3 v Div 4 (eight games) Round 2: Round 1 winners v Div 2 (eight games)Round 3: Round 2 winners v Div 1 (eight games) The way is now cleared for the All-Ireland quarter finals. Tailteann Cup to feature teams from Division 3 and 4 that didn’t reach Round 3. Advantages: It gives all counties access to the championship, entering at a level where they can expect to be competitive while offering a Tier 2 competition (Tailteann Cup) for Div 3 and 4 teams eliminated from the Sam Maguire Cup race in Rounds 1 or 2.
OPTION 2 Allow all eight Division 1 teams direct access to the last 16 and fill the remaining eight places by open draw from the remaining 24. Seed Division 1 teams apart in the Round of 16 draw but have an open draw for quarter-finals and semi-finals. Run Tailteann Cup for Div 3 and 4 teams who don’t reach the last 16.
OPTION 3 Run the championship on an open draw basis as a one-year experiment. Div 3 and 4 teams drawn against Div 2 and 1 opposition to have home advantage. Qualifiers to apply for teams beaten in all rounds up to the quarter-finals. There’s a risk of mismatches, but it’s unlikely there would be as many as under the provincial system. There’s also the distinct likelihood of major powers from different provinces being drawn against each other right from the start. An open draw would remove the inbuilt protection enjoyed by the top teams in Leinster and Munster, who are protected by seeding in earlier rounds.
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Post by veteran on Oct 11, 2021 13:09:58 GMT
I haven’t been giving much attention to this topic but I got the impression that there was a groundswell of support for proposal B as being the most sensible. Martin Brehony seems to have dismantled that proposal in a fairly logical fashion. Now I am confused . The one thing I would say is there should never be change for the sake of change . What is being proposed should be better and seen to be better than the status quo.
Perhaps others here have given this topic more consideration than I. What do think? Has Martin Brehony driven a coach and four through proposal B?
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Post by buck02 on Oct 11, 2021 13:15:25 GMT
Reading Brehenys article what stands out to me is that he is trying to equate the existing league to what will essentially be a championship.
There will be a big difference between using the league as most counties did to rest some players, give other fellas game time, try out different game plans in February and March and playing this League based championship in April, May and June.
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Post by givehimaball on Oct 11, 2021 14:21:53 GMT
I haven’t been giving much attention to this topic but I got the impression that there was a groundswell of support for proposal B as being the most sensible. Martin Brehony seems to have dismantled that proposal in a fairly logical fashion. Now I am confused . The one thing I would say is there should never be change for the sake of change . What is being proposed should be better and seen to be better than the status quo. Perhaps others here have given this topic more consideration than I. What do think? Has Martin Brehony driven a coach and four through proposal B? Nope I don't think he has remotely come close to knicking Option B on it's head - I don't think anyone who has come out in favour of Option B has said it was a perfect solution or that it was without flaws. However from what I've seen, the overwhelming consensus among those who've come out in favour of Option B is that it's a improvement on the present structure. "Perfection is the enemy of progess" is the phrase that springs to mind for this scenario. Rather than sticking with the status quo, which is definitely not the best solution, at least try something different and see what aspects of it work and what aspects of it don't. Keep the aspects that work, bin those that don't and progress from there. Option B isn't the final destination but it is a step in the right direction, as opposed to the notion of sticking with the status quo, which is the equivalent of sitting on your arse in terms of trying to make progress towards improving things. For me the big thing is the fact that 80% of intercounty players are in favour of it. These are the lads most affected by it, the lads making the most sacrifices, the lads risking injury and I think their opinion should be given the most weight.
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Premier
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Post by Premier on Oct 11, 2021 16:56:16 GMT
I really do think you’d get really big crowds at these games. If they are on weekends when clubs don’t have county league games the crowds would be huge. Just for example I don’t know would I be mad pushed to go to Galway away or Mayo away in the league during February but during the height of summer you’d have people and families making a weekend out of it like they do with soccer where there is a ritual to it. Kerry fans are often criticised for their lack of travel to Dublin but I honestly think that would massively improve if you knew you weren’t getting ripped off in Dublin and could enjoy the close atmosphere of a provincial ground
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Post by onlykerry on Oct 11, 2021 16:56:56 GMT
Reading Brehenys article what stands out to me is that he is trying to equate the existing league to what will essentially be a championship. There will be a big difference between using the league as most counties did to rest some players, give other fellas game time, try out different game plans in February and March and playing this League based championship in April, May and June. For me the part of plan B that I cannot agree with is dumping some of the top teams to give lower ranked teams entry to the AI proper - it is the type of scheme that politicians would dream up to try and keep everyone happy but the reality is nobody will be happy fairly quickly. Or put another way it reminds me of the saying a "camel is a horse designed by a committee"
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Post by hatchetman on Oct 11, 2021 17:01:44 GMT
The idea of allowing those ranked 9th, 10th, 11th, 17th, and 25th into the All-Ireland series ahead of those ranked 6,7,8 seems mad to me. Brehenys option one solution seems eminently more sensible.
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Post by hatchetman on Oct 11, 2021 17:18:17 GMT
There's a guy on boards.ie who has a fairly accurate rankings system and the latest rankings are
#|Δ Rank|Team|Rating|Δ Rating
1|▲2|Tyrone|110.14|3.64
2|=|Dublin|107.58|0.00
3|▼-2|Mayo|106.06|-3.64
4|=|Kerry|101.23|0.00
5|=|Donegal|93.40|0.00
6|=|Galway|92.84|0.00
7|=|Monaghan|92.56|0.00
8|=|Kildare|91.10|0.00
So we're saying 3 teams of the calibre of Galway, Monaghan, Kildare (maybe even stronger) won't be allowed to participate but a team from division 4 who hasn't a hope in hell of winning a match, let alone the all Ireland, will be allowed to participate.
Insane.
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Premier
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Post by Premier on Oct 11, 2021 18:51:12 GMT
There's a guy on boards.ie who has a fairly accurate rankings system and the latest rankings are #|Δ Rank|Team|Rating|Δ Rating 1|▲2|Tyrone|110.14|3.64 2|=|Dublin|107.58|0.00 3|▼-2|Mayo|106.06|-3.64 4|=|Kerry|101.23|0.00 5|=|Donegal|93.40|0.00 6|=|Galway|92.84|0.00 7|=|Monaghan|92.56|0.00 8|=|Kildare|91.10|0.00 So we're saying 3 teams of the calibre of Galway, Monaghan, Kildare (maybe even stronger) won't be allowed to participate but a team from division 4 who hasn't a hope in hell of winning a match, let alone the all Ireland, will be allowed to participate. Insane. I guess the logic is they have been given a chance to participate. They’ve been given 7 games to prove they are good enough and if they can’t even make the top 5 then they are clearly going nowhere anyway
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exiled
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Post by exiled on Oct 11, 2021 19:29:19 GMT
They don't have a vote , the provincal councils will ensure that this will fail unfortunately. There is the issue of sponsorship aswell if the league and championship are one do allianz have to be compensated? Long past time the provincial councils were done away with. A completely unneeded level of bureacracy in this day and age. I would imagine an absolutely massive chunk of the work of the four different provincial councils would be completed more efficiently and much cheaper if it was centralised in Croke Park and I'd imagine virtually nothing would be lost. The last thing we need is for Croke Park to have complete control. Imagine the beurocacy..and the wages bill. It would turn into the FAI..
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Post by hatchetman on Oct 12, 2021 7:01:45 GMT
There's a guy on boards.ie who has a fairly accurate rankings system and the latest rankings are #|Δ Rank|Team|Rating|Δ Rating 1|▲2|Tyrone|110.14|3.64 2|=|Dublin|107.58|0.00 3|▼-2|Mayo|106.06|-3.64 4|=|Kerry|101.23|0.00 5|=|Donegal|93.40|0.00 6|=|Galway|92.84|0.00 7|=|Monaghan|92.56|0.00 8|=|Kildare|91.10|0.00 So we're saying 3 teams of the calibre of Galway, Monaghan, Kildare (maybe even stronger) won't be allowed to participate but a team from division 4 who hasn't a hope in hell of winning a match, let alone the all Ireland, will be allowed to participate. Insane. I guess the logic is they have been given a chance to participate. They’ve been given 7 games to prove they are good enough and if they can’t even make the top 5 then they are clearly going nowhere anyway What? By that crazy logic, how many games have Westmeath or Fermanagh played to end up in 17th or 24th position and then to be told that's good enough to qualify for the finals against the top 5 teams.
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Post by Mickmack on Oct 12, 2021 7:13:08 GMT
John Fogarty: The bottom line will decide Congress vote on football championship structure Orphaned by a disbanded fixtures review task force, there has been no figurehead to stand over the motions John Fogarty: The bottom line will decide Congress vote on football championship structure Ulster GAA chief Brian McAvoy opposes the All-Ireland League concept and does not believe it is financially beneficial. Picture: Oliver McVeigh
TUE, 12 OCT, 2021 - 07:00 John fogarty John Fogarty
Speak to enough of the fabled but very real keen GAA observers and you will learn quick enough that Special Congress on October 23 is shaping up to be a talking shop.
Orphaned by a disbanded fixtures review task force, there has been no figurehead to stand over the motions. The most recent roadshow outlining the All-Ireland league and four provincial conferences of eight teams proposals hasn’t been done halfhearted but not with great gusto either.
The idea of moving counties into other provinces to neatly synchronise the four is a dodo although the awareness created by Proposal B in the media and accelerated by the Gaelic Players Association (GPA) last week will give it a fighting stance. Nevertheless, unless there is a push of Rule 42 and black card proportions these next 12 days, it too will die a death and it will be a case of back to the future and the qualifiers returning for 2022.
Given he was the architect of the Super 8, former GAA director general Páraic Duffy was front and centre when it came to selling those All-Ireland quarter-final phases. When his brainchild was dismissed as being financially motivated, he dismissed the criticism as “lazy and cynical”.
His successor Tom Ryan, then director of finance, backed him up. “Even the most committed of patrons will have a job to get to every game once it gets to the quarter-final stage of things. So it’ll be an increase but I don’t think it is going to be the bonanza that, at first glance, looking at the number of games involved that we might have expected.”
Mayo not being involved in the inaugural Super 8 in 2018 confirmed that — the football championship gate receipts of €12.7m was a drop of nearly €4m from the last year of the qualifiers in 2017. With the help of an All-Ireland final replay in 2019 and Mayo making the last four, a handsome €18.2m was returned.
It sure would be good to hear from Ryan right now or director of finance Ger Mulryan, not for their opinions on the proposals, but their expertise. Their projections on what each of them might reap in the way of gate receipts because that is where the heads of county chairpersons, secretaries and treasurers are right now. Others are already calculating. Ulster GAA’s support for round-robin provincial championships, something that is not yet on the table but will be should both the All-Ireland League and provincial conferences motions fail on Saturday week, is completely understandable. They would stand to make the most considering the strength of the competition as it stands.
In its first two years of a round-robin structure, Ulster SFC’s equivalent in hurling, the Munster SHC, brought in €4.054m and €4.206m, an average varying between €363,000 and €382,000 for each of the 11 games. In the previous knock-out year of 2017 when there were four fixtures, €2.577m was brought in and €1.935m in ‘16, averages of €644,250 and €483,750 per game respectively.Pre-Covid, Ulster recorded total gate receipts of €1,758,807 in 2019.
That included eight Ulster SFC games. Groups of five and four counties with a final brings that total to 17. Connected to an All-Ireland, the provincial council will make money.
Finance is not the premise that Ulster chief executive Brian McAvoy has based the majority of his arguments against the All-Ireland League but he has provided an opposing view to GPA chief executive Tom Parsons who believes more championship games will mean more money.
The rub is the majority of counties earn more in gate receipts from the Allianz League than any competition. The season ticket of which they receive over 35% is largely based on the league. They might be convinced by the GPA that an All-Ireland league is the best structure to play in but they need to be assured that the league becoming championship doesn’t lose them income.
It seems a lifetime ago now but there was a time when Limerick officials publicly set out promotion to Division 1A as the primary goal for their senior hurlers.
In December 2015, county secretary Mike O’Riordan said: “Unfortunately, we are in Division 1B at the moment and with the help of God, we can get out of Division 1B in the coming season. That would lead to bigger interest, bigger teams coming in, and bigger gates. That would increase the revenue.”
The year previous, Limerick’s co-manager Donal O’Grady left after he maintained he did not apologise to officials for the league defeat to Offaly, which contributed to them not qualifying from Division 1B. So vital were gate receipts for a team four years shy of winning the first of three All-Ireland titles in four seasons that Limerick refused to say sorry to O’Grady.
In the absence of clarity that their bottom line won’t be impacted, counties are more likely to stick than twist next week. It’s a shame they haven’t been fully informed.
Move against Andy McEntee in Meath defies logic
We mentioned last week that the Meath executive has form when it comes to ousting a manager only for the clubs to think otherwise.
It was a largely different top table whose motion to remove Séamus McEnaney nine years ago failed to receive sufficient backing at an emergency board meeting.
And this time around the executive are not as convincing in their opposition to Andy McEntee, seven of them including senior officials do not believe that he should step down with a year remaining on his current term.
Clubs on Tuesday night could be forgiven for thinking those executive members who want somebody new have left their move far too late. It’s two and a half months since Meath were beaten by Dublin in the Leinster championship.
Clearly, there are some who look back on the row which precipitated Bernard Flynn’s decision to step down as U20 manager as a valid reason to take aim at McEntee. But wouldn’t the powers that be have been better advised to seek an explanation from McEntee for holding onto the U20 players before making any decision?
After a summer when Dublin felt the breath of Meath on their necks for what seems an eternity, on the field at least this move against McEntee defies logic.
“You’d like for the lads to believe that they belong on a stage like this,” McEntee said of his speech to the players after the game.
“Playing Dublin in Croke Park is where most Meath people would like to be, so that’s pretty much the message.”
A man who took the job when few were putting their hands up, there has been a marked progression during McEntee’s reign.
Meath seem to have their heads screwed on with so many football development matters but this attempt to give their senior manager the heave-ho looks clumsy and ill-judged.
Paddy Tally is not Kerry’s bogeyman
“What does Paddy Tally being involved say about your philosophy?”
Whether the question was loaded or not, Jack O’Connor wasn’t taking any chances and fired back with a query of his own.
“You’re watching teams that I’ve been involved in for many’s a long day, are you? How far back?” the new Kerry manager asked of the journalist who posed the question at last Friday’s press conference.
O’Connor mightn’t have logged in for the county board meeting the Monday previous but he wouldn’t have had to in order to gauge the feeling in some quarters of the county about the arrival of a Tyrone coach on his management ticket.
But such shortsightedness and borderline snobbery ignores the facts that O’Connor previously consulted with a prominent Ulster figure on tactics before guiding Kerry to All-Ireland glory and in 2014 Éamonn Fitzmaurice won a Sam Maguire Cup against the head while playing Donegal at a version of their own game.
“I’m hardly going to change at this hour of my life and go all defensive,” O’Connor maintained.
“My old friend Johnny Culloty said to me one time, he said, ‘Jack, it’s not enough just to win in Kerry, you’ve to win with a bit of style’. That’ll be our intention.”
Behind it, there will have to be substance.
In that regard, Tally will be benevolent, not a bogeyman.
john.fogarty@examiner.ie MORE IN THIS SECTION
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Post by onlykerry on Oct 14, 2021 11:20:04 GMT
Are the GPA on a promise of some sort if Plan B is adopted - the enthusiasm and level of agitation by them in favour of Plan B is unlike anything I have seen from them before. Just wait until Dublin or one of the other A lister counties is sent packing after the seven league games - probably because scoring difference relegates them to position 6 in a year where they had four away games.
The moneymen seem to be convinced Plan B will be a more lucrative format with a smattering of tokenism to Division 3 and 4 at the expense of genuinely decent teams.
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Post by thehermit on Oct 14, 2021 11:27:38 GMT
If Proposal B or A do not get approved are we back to the Super 8s?
In that scenario do we have assurances Dublin will not continue to benefit from the ludicrous situation where they get two home games as opposed to everyone else's one?!!!
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Post by dc84 on Oct 14, 2021 11:46:46 GMT
If Proposal B or A do not get approved are we back to the Super 8s? In that scenario do we have assurances Dublin will not continue to benefit from the ludicrous situation where they get two home games as opposed to everyone else's one?!!! I think it's then a choice of super 8s or back to qualifiers and quarters. As for the other I doubt it ! Say croke park would love dublin vs kerry and whomever else big team is in thst group as those two games aswell..
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