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Post by southward on Jan 6, 2020 20:51:15 GMT
Changing the subject and this is a genuine query. How dr why did Kerry let Conor Cox go. He is carrying the Roscommon team. I like Conor, always have. Always thought he was a very talented and promising player. Disappointed to see him switch to the Rossies but it didn't look like he was going to get a run for Kerry. He would have been perceived as a selfish player in the past. This was largely due to Listowel Emmets being dependent on him for scores I guess. It was often a case of Conor getting the ball, not passing and going for the score. If I am correct he and a few other lads crossed swords with Eamon Fitz too. That didn't help his cause. We could do with him but it's not going to happen now. Fair enough assessment. I've seen plenty of him with Listowel, Feale Rangers as well as Kerry and for me he never quite proved that he was at that level. Not up to when he joined the Rossies anyway. Close, certainly, a good player and a trier but not better than what we had. Never saw him displacing a Gooch or JOD anyway and I'm not sure whose jersey he'd have today either. And yes, rightly or wrongly, the perception was always there that Conor wasn't a man to bring other forwards into the game. Also, I think he left the panel at one point to go to the US, which obviously wouldn't have helped his chances. Looked the part last season alright though. Roscommon seems to have brought out the best in him and good luck to him. I'd be more concerned if it was a midfielder we let slip though.
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Post by An Bradán on Jan 6, 2020 23:36:21 GMT
I like Conor, always have. Always thought he was a very talented and promising player. Disappointed to see him switch to the Rossies but it didn't look like he was going to get a run for Kerry. He would have been perceived as a selfish player in the past. This was largely due to Listowel Emmets being dependent on him for scores I guess. It was often a case of Conor getting the ball, not passing and going for the score. If I am correct he and a few other lads crossed swords with Eamon Fitz too. That didn't help his cause. We could do with him but it's not going to happen now. Fair enough assessment. I've seen plenty of him with Listowel, Feale Rangers as well as Kerry and for me he never quite proved that he was at that level. Not up to when he joined the Rossies anyway. Close, certainly, a good player and a trier but not better than what we had. Never saw him displacing a Gooch or JOD anyway and I'm not sure whose jersey he'd have today either. And yes, rightly or wrongly, the perception was always there that Conor wasn't a man to bring other forwards into the game. Also, I think he left the panel at one point to go to the US, which obviously wouldn't have helped his chances. Looked the part last season alright though. Roscommon seems to have brought out the best in him and good luck to him. I'd be more concerned if it was a midfielder we let slip though. Couldn't disagree with any of that. He just looked a more mature, physically stronger player last year. The Rossies needed scores and it seems it's a good match.
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Post by oldschool on Jan 7, 2020 12:17:49 GMT
Pretty fair assessments I think. Interesting. Yes, I suppose I couldn’t see him replacing any of our present squad.
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Post by givehimaball on Jan 7, 2020 16:23:52 GMT
He would have been perceived as a selfish player in the past. This was largely due to Listowel Emmets being dependent on him for scores I guess. It was often a case of Conor getting the ball, not passing and going for the score. The spectacular point he got against Galway was a perfect example of his "selfish" play. It went over and he got a load of praise for it but to my way of thinking it was a bad decision/bad play by a forward. He took on a very low percentage chance and it went over, so he got away with it. Cox had fallen to the ground and got up, was almost at the end line and there were 2 Galway marks covering him. You could possibly make the case for him taking on the shot if he had no other options but there was another Roscommon forward pretty much unmarked in a better position. If he had played a simple hand-pass back to the Roscommon player, his team-mate would have a far far better chance of a point and you could possibly make the case that they could have created a goal chance - the reason I mention a goal chance is that I'm convinced that in a similar situation that's what Dublin's forward unit would have created - a goal chance. They might not have scored the goal chance it but they would have created it. I think it's also a large reason why Connolly was on the bench so much under Gavin - capable of spectacular scores but awful when it comes to his scoring efficiency. I'm nearly sure in their Super 8 game against Dublin Cox did something similar - took on a very low level shooting chance in a ridiculous position that went wide and I remember thinking - if a Dublin player had done that, Gavin would have hauled him ashore. I'm convinced if there were better stats for football, it would expose a lot of players (especially forwards) in terms of their efficiency in relation to scoring chances. There are a couple of players who I'd put in the category of being utterly brilliant in terms of not taking on bad shots who rarely if ever get praise for this. They wouldn't take on the low percentage option but would work the pass to create better shooting options for their team-mates. Far too often in GAA analysis, people put too much focus on the spectacular point, but fail to look at all the wides/missed opportunities (goals). The wides are bad enough but the missed opportunities in terms of goal chances are worse. The RTE commentators/analysts are woeful for this - they constantly praise any and every player who gets a point, even when they take on the point option when there is a blatant goal chance going a begging. As a contrast Dublin rarely if ever do this - all too often you will see them working the pass, trying to get the shot off and they will only take the point option as the last option. The only thing the RTE crew are worse at is describing when a goalie makes a save - every save is treated the same, no matter whether it's hit straight at the keeper with all the force of a toddler kicking am O'Neills for the first time or right in the top corner at 100 mph. In terms of Kerry, for me the most disappointing option in terms of the Kerry performance over the final and replay this year was just how many times Kerry players took on bad/low shooting chances. It was bad enough on its own but when you compared it to the Dublin forwards, there was a serious gulf. Dublin have a system that is set up to create high-percentage scoring chances; there was nothing to suggest that Kerry had anything comparable in temrs of a system or specific tactics. All too often I feel with Kerry it's a case of get it up to the forwards and let them off on their own to get the score.
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Post by Mickmack on Jan 7, 2020 20:42:41 GMT
He would have been perceived as a selfish player in the past. This was largely due to Listowel Emmets being dependent on him for scores I guess. It was often a case of Conor getting the ball, not passing and going for the score. The spectacular point he got against Galway was a perfect example of his "selfish" play. It went over and he got a load of praise for it but to my way of thinking it was a bad decision/bad play by a forward. He took on a very low percentage chance and it went over, so he got away with it. Cox had fallen to the ground and got up, was almost at the end line and there were 2 Galway marks covering him. You could possibly make the case for him taking on the shot if he had no other options but there was another Roscommon forward pretty much unmarked in a better position. If he had played a simple hand-pass back to the Roscommon player, his team-mate would have a far far better chance of a point and you could possibly make the case that they could have created a goal chance - the reason I mention a goal chance is that I'm convinced that in a similar situation that's what Dublin's forward unit would have created - a goal chance. They might not have scored the goal chance it but they would have created it. I think it's also a large reason why Connolly was on the bench so much under Gavin - capable of spectacular scores but awful when it comes to his scoring efficiency. I'm nearly sure in their Super 8 game against Dublin Cox did something similar - took on a very low level shooting chance in a ridiculous position that went wide and I remember thinking - if a Dublin player had done that, Gavin would have hauled him ashore. I'm convinced if there were better stats for football, it would expose a lot of players (especially forwards) in terms of their efficiency in relation to scoring chances. There are a couple of players who I'd put in the category of being utterly brilliant in terms of not taking on bad shots who rarely if ever get praise for this. They wouldn't take on the low percentage option but would work the pass to create better shooting options for their team-mates. Far too often in GAA analysis, people put too much focus on the spectacular point, but fail to look at all the wides/missed opportunities (goals). The wides are bad enough but the missed opportunities in terms of goal chances are worse. The RTE commentators/analysts are woeful for this - they constantly praise any and every player who gets a point, even when they take on the point option when there is a blatant goal chance going a begging. As a contrast Dublin rarely if ever do this - all too often you will see them working the pass, trying to get the shot off and they will only take the point option as the last option. The only thing the RTE crew are worse at is describing when a goalie makes a save - every save is treated the same, no matter whether it's hit straight at the keeper with all the force of a toddler kicking am O'Neills for the first time or right in the top corner at 100 mph. In terms of Kerry, for me the most disappointing option in terms of the Kerry performance over the final and replay this year was just how many times Kerry players took on bad/low shooting chances. It was bad enough on its own but when you compared it to the Dublin forwards, there was a serious gulf. Dublin have a system that is set up to create high-percentage scoring chances; there was nothing to suggest that Kerry had anything comparable in temrs of a system or specific tactics. All too often I feel with Kerry it's a case of get it up to the forwards and let them off on their own to get the score. Great post. Kerry got a lot right in 2019 mainly in relation to kickouts and retaining possession from them. Finishing with 15 men was improved on too. But the forward play needs surgery. You dont want David Moran kicking for points for example.... his efficiency is not good enough. You need DC, JOD,Geaney and SOS kicking simple scores after openings have been created. Over the two finals v Dublin Connoly was the only Dublin to take a long range potshot... and he missed. "A lot done, more to do" ...but based on the vast improvements made in 2019 i am hopeful that PK will improve things in the scoring department. The Limerivk hurlers will have the same challenge next year.
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Post by oldschool on Jan 7, 2020 20:53:25 GMT
That’s a good and accurate post
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Post by ballhopper34 on Jan 8, 2020 2:58:18 GMT
As far as I can tell, Paul Mannion is the only Dub allowed to shoot from anywhere...and his scoring rate is excellent - which is why he continues to shoot...if his rate drops, he'll be back with the rest of the forwards. I'd also suggest he has a "sweet spot" at tough angles where he knows his shot is well suited. A video of all his points and wides would provide interesting analysis.
Everyone else in Blue is only allowed shoot from the D or better, it seems.
Fairly sure some players not allowed shoot at all...if close enough to goal, punch it over or take the goal if three yards or less from the goals. MDMA and Seamus Scanlon are two that come to my mind (no empirical data to back this up, mind you).
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kerryexile
Fanatical Member
Whether you believe that you can, or that you can't, you are right anyway.
Posts: 1,126
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Post by kerryexile on Jan 8, 2020 8:36:08 GMT
As far as I can tell, Paul Mannion is the only Dub allowed to shoot from anywhere...and his scoring rate is excellent - which is why he continues to shoot...if his rate drops, he'll be back with the rest of the forwards. I'd also suggest he has a "sweet spot" at tough angles where he knows his shot is well suited. A video of all his points and wides would provide interesting analysis. Everyone else in Blue is only allowed shoot from the D or better, it seems. Fairly sure some players not allowed shoot at all...if close enough to goal, punch it over or take the goal if three yards or less from the goals. MDMA and Seamus Scanlon are two that come to my mind (no empirical data to back this up, mind you). i would agree with all of that. You could even see them assessing the situation when they receive possession near the D - gamble or recycle. Instinct not allowed. And yet so many people are totally in awe of the Dublin forwards.
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Post by Mickmack on Jan 8, 2020 9:12:12 GMT
As far as I can tell, Paul Mannion is the only Dub allowed to shoot from anywhere...and his scoring rate is excellent - which is why he continues to shoot...if his rate drops, he'll be back with the rest of the forwards. I'd also suggest he has a "sweet spot" at tough angles where he knows his shot is well suited. A video of all his points and wides would provide interesting analysis. Everyone else in Blue is only allowed shoot from the D or better, it seems. Fairly sure some players not allowed shoot at all...if close enough to goal, punch it over or take the goal if three yards or less from the goals. MDMA and Seamus Scanlon are two that come to my mind (no empirical data to back this up, mind you). i would agree with all of that. You could even see them assessing the situation when they receive possession near the D - gamble or recycle. Instinct not allowed. And yet so many people are totally in awe of the Dublin forwards. Instinct not allowed ....thats what the "process" means.
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Post by oldschool on Jan 8, 2020 13:35:51 GMT
What team will we start against Dublin at end of the month.? We wait with interest.
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Post by glengael on Jan 9, 2020 11:29:06 GMT
Camogie legend Ann Downey has been appointed as manager for the Ballyragget intermediate hurlers in her native Kilkenny.
Downey, who won 12 All-Ireland camogie titles as a player and one as a manager, takes over the side who were relegated from the top grade last season.
She will look to lead St Patrick's Ballyragget back to the top tier as the 2017 intermediate champions look to regain that title.
"I'm looking forward to it, because there are some great young lads that can hurl here," she told Independent.ie.
"You would hope to go back up (senior), to be quite honest, that would be the aim."
Downey stepped away from the Kilkenny camogie job after losing last year's All-Ireland Final to Galway.
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Post by Mickmack on Jan 9, 2020 11:54:45 GMT
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Post by Mickmack on Jan 11, 2020 11:44:22 GMT
Gaelic Football Vincent Hogan: 'If Dessie Farrell wants to see the pitfalls of replacing a legend, he could turn to his own book'
Vincent Hogan
1 New Dublin football manager Dessie Farrell at a promotional event with AIG yesterday. Photo: Ramsey Cardy/Sportsfile In a small, second-storey boardroom above Dublin's North Quay, Dessie Farrell settles into the electric chair.
Nostalgia and reminiscence are the enemies here. The city's past and the ghosts it holds. He places his elbows on the table, clasps his hands and listens to us dance around what, palpably, everybody in this room is thinking.
The strange madness compelling a man to take this job.
Farrell knows the tune of the five-in-a-row men, that's inarguable. But winning dressing rooms are clannish places too, places where it doesn't take much for rebels to begin to move in shoals.
The ridiculous statistics he must follow now, inevitably, makes this a story keyed to find fissures in the stone.
Sure he remains on warm, avuncular terms with minors and Under-21s he's coached impressively in the past, but this group has spent its adult life on the mountain top. And he's now telling them to look towards the sky.
Dessie's voice, like his personality, is pitched low here. He speaks quietly, thoughtfully. There's the sense almost of him calling people close, looking to confide. When they were Dublin team-mates in the nineties, the ironic training-ground name they had for Jim Gavin was "Big Jim".
Nobody imagined then that they were looking at a man who would change Dublin football and its sense of self so deeply.
He was just one of them, a small, tigerish half-forward, quick-witted if unexceptional in many ways, albeit armed with uncommon courage. But Gavin's legacy runs deep under the city foundations now, rippling through every GAA house, every club nursery, just about every school. He made Dublin players think differently about themselves. Dublin people. And he did it from behind a mask.
In public, Gavin's personality was little more than a facsimile. His demeanour stayed clipped, his language formal. He built maybe the greatest Gaelic football team we've seen without ever really letting the world in.
That won't be Dessie's way, because it can't be. He is set differently as a communicator. Someone asks him about taking on the complex job of rebooting greatness and his answer carries a striking defiance.
"I've always taken the approach that there's two ways to live your life maybe," he says.
"One, as a timid soul. Sort of year by year, month by month, week by week, possibly even hour by hour as a timid soul. Or the other is to perhaps do the things that frighten you at times.
"This thing stimulates me. It challenges me. I love football, working with footballers. And, ultimately, now is the time that, if I didn't do it now, it would probably never come around again."
This is tricky, though. This is a group that has just rewritten history, and - accordingly - one set in certain beliefs and dogmas. A dressing room flush with high achievement and, yes, celebrity now compelled to stay, above all, humble. That one word so easily becomes a cliché in the wrong mouth and Dessie knows it.
He was, after all, part of an All-Ireland-winning group in '95 that reacted almost mutinously to the sound of a new leader's voice in their domain.
In his book, 'Dessie - Tangled Up in Blue', Farrell is candid about the Dublin players' deep resistance to Mickey Whelan as Pat O'Neill's successor and the "liberties" taken by men who'd just brought Sam Maguire back to the city for the first time in 11 seasons.
Whelan, it's probably true, didn't help himself with a naturally brash demeanour, a suggestion that they'd just won the All-Ireland with, as Farrell recalls him saying, "one of the worst full-back lines he'd ever seen" and his peculiar decision to fall into immediate conflict with team-captain John O'Leary.
Yet, there are lines in Farrell's book that will echo ominously too.
Such as: "He (Whelan) was probably on a hiding to nothing..."
"The management team didn't possess the same authority as the previous group..."
"Things had become sloppy, lads were crying off too easily..."
"I don't blame Mickey Whelan directly for our failure in 1996 as I think it was impossible for him to stop the rot..."
"Losing an edge as a player is often impossible to detect until tested on match day..."
"Once you give players an inch, they're happy to steal a yard..."
Dessie doesn't sidestep the question now as it, inevitably, falls his way. Dublin football may be in a profoundly different place today, but the human condition isn't quite as biddable to change. He is clearly an outstanding coach, but this job seeks more from him than the ability to have a lucid game-plan.
Has he considered that instinct, when pressure builds, to scapegoat a new manager?
"Yeah, I've no doubt it's a strong dressing room," he acknowledges. "This group as well as being high-functioning, they're highly evolved and I'd imagine not inclined to suffer fools gladly.
"I'm under no illusions there. But my approach is very simple in relation to that - we're all in this together. I've been appointed by the county board now so, for better or for worse, I am who they've got. And, between us, we've got to make this work."
To that end, Stephen Cluxton's apparent commitment to go in search of an eighth All-Ireland medal once his shoulder is rehabbed will surely help maintain a strong dressing room constitution. And Farrell says that he himself is already preaching against complacency "because I vividly remember the barren years and there was many, many of those".
"That shouldn't be lost on supporters and I'll be reminding players of that from time to time. That thing is precious. And it can move away from you very, very quickly.
"We can't afford to be complacent, we can't afford to stagnate. The competition out there is getting better and getting stronger."
With that, he embraces an old Gavin tactic of tossing out an audit of the treacherous mines likely to be set for Dublin in the year ahead, threats far broader than just Kerry's obviously burning want.
So Cork, Galway, Mayo, Donegal, Tyrone all get a mention too as does, less plausibly, the threat "even within our own province". Suffice to say if Dublin find Leinster a struggle in 2020, Dessie Farrell is in trouble.
He has spoken of a need for new blood in the camp, the search for which effectively commences in Longford today. But this will be, above all, a story of managing - manipulating even - great players to stay honest in the white heat.
What can be said with some degree of certainty is that the new Dublin manager won't be taken in by bluff.
Having played under seven different Dublin managers himself, Farrell recognises the difference between candour and what he calls "players prepared to spoof their way through sessions".
This son of a father from Kildare and a mother from south-west Donegal now has the fate of the city in his hands then. He inherits a brilliant, magical, but complex fraternity. One that will, undoubtedly, challenge the depth of his own confidence. Wisely, he declares of the weeks ahead: "I'll be listening a lot more than talking."
And Dessie Farrell gets to his feet, the chair still cold, with - as he tells us - his eyes wide open.
Exactly as they'll need to be.
Indo Sport
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Post by southward on Jan 12, 2020 10:28:34 GMT
www.the42.ie/dublin-longford-dessie-farrell-first-game-4962071-Jan2020/"In the second-half, an irate Dublin fan lunged at a couple of Longford supporters on the terrace.
Nearby Gardai had to get involved to calm the away supporter, who by then had started ranting furiously about the Black and Tans, among other things.".....Black and Tans? - lol. Somebody was in the early house, methinks " At the end of the game, after awarding a few late frees in Longford’s favour, referee Alan Coyne needed an intervention from the stewards to help him safely into his dressing room.
Coyne exited the field in the same area where streams of Dublin supporters were heading towards the exit and they lined up to verbally abuse the Westmeath man as he walked off."
Jeez Dubs, it's the O'Byrne Cup. Are we starved of success or something?
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Post by kerrybhoy06 on Jan 12, 2020 12:23:34 GMT
www.the42.ie/dublin-longford-dessie-farrell-first-game-4962071-Jan2020/"In the second-half, an irate Dublin fan lunged at a couple of Longford supporters on the terrace.
Nearby Gardai had to get involved to calm the away supporter, who by then had started ranting furiously about the Black and Tans, among other things.".....Black and Tans? - lol. Somebody was in the early house, methinks " At the end of the game, after awarding a few late frees in Longford’s favour, referee Alan Coyne needed an intervention from the stewards to help him safely into his dressing room.
Coyne exited the field in the same area where streams of Dublin supporters were heading towards the exit and they lined up to verbally abuse the Westmeath man as he walked off."
Jeez Dubs, it's the O'Byrne Cup. Are we starved of success or something? Known for their courteousness
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Post by Mickmack on Jan 13, 2020 9:59:07 GMT
www.the42.ie/dublin-longford-dessie-farrell-first-game-4962071-Jan2020/"In the second-half, an irate Dublin fan lunged at a couple of Longford supporters on the terrace.
Nearby Gardai had to get involved to calm the away supporter, who by then had started ranting furiously about the Black and Tans, among other things.".....Black and Tans? - lol. Somebody was in the early house, methinks " At the end of the game, after awarding a few late frees in Longford’s favour, referee Alan Coyne needed an intervention from the stewards to help him safely into his dressing room.
Coyne exited the field in the same area where streams of Dublin supporters were heading towards the exit and they lined up to verbally abuse the Westmeath man as he walked off."
Jeez Dubs, it's the O'Byrne Cup. Are we starved of success or something? Known for their courteousness A few home town decisions given? Playing at home is an advantage. I feel for the Dubs fans!
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Post by Mickmack on Jan 13, 2020 16:28:20 GMT
If i had a free hand as GAA dictator I would start the league in April. Each team gets 7 games over a 10 week period ending in mid June. The top 6 in Div 1 plus the two promoted from Division 2 would form a group of 8 to contest for the Sam Maguire.
Final league placings would decide who meets who in four quarter finals with the division 1 winners playing the team that came second in division 2 and so on.
That would give every county 8 inter county games with the two reaching the final getting 10.
Four quarter finals, two semi finals and a final on a knock out basis.
There would be plenty of edge in all those games. There would be plenty of time for club, sigerson cup etc.
I find it hard to adjust to the league starting before the 6 Nations in rugby. There is no need for players to be pulled between sigerson, club and county. There are too many inter county games. We need less of those ..... less would be more if they went with something like i am proposing above.
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Post by Mickmack on Jan 15, 2020 15:36:06 GMT
Irish Times Logo
Malachy Clerkin 26 minutes ago 0 Joe Brolly has explained his switch to subscriber-based TV station Eir by saying his misgivings about GAA matches appearing behind a paywall had become increasingly irrelevant. Speaking at the launch of Eir’s National League programme in Croke Park, Brolly accepted that his argument had been lost and that it was pointless to keep making the same point to a largely indifferent audience.
“I met Páraic Duffy at least three times before the first rights issue, before the second rights issue as well. He came to see me in Belfast and asked for my support. He asked me to stop what I was doing.
“And we’re 10 years down the line now and eventually you have to come to the realisation that you’re howling into the wilderness. The decision has been made by the GAA and there’s no going back. I love the GAA and I’ll defend it to the death to the outside world, even if I excoriate it on the inside and to the hierarchy.
“But you look at it – even my own kids are saying, ‘What are you doing?’ And I suppose increasingly, if you’re the only one out there with a pitchfork, you’re in danger of becoming irrelevant. A friend of mine said, ‘You’re like f*cking Aontú.’
“So I see my own kids’ viewing habits – they don’t even watch TV now. Everything is streaming on tablets and whatever. I was interested last year to read the BBC Trust’s report on viewing habits. The average age of a BBC TV viewer now is 61. So the younger generation, they wouldn’t understand what the issue is. It has become normal.
“I would like things to be a different way but they’re never going to be. I’m pally with Jarlath Burns and he’s telling me to wise up about this stuff. And he’s going to be the next president of the GAA.
“I was interested in the Broadcast Authority’s report, talking about viewing habits in Ireland. It said that TV viewing in the 15-25 bracket has just collapsed by 25 per cent in the space of two years. There’s a whole new landscape in terms of TV viewing and I suppose the GAA has to rise to that challenge.”
As recently as last August, Brolly had vowed never to work for Sky Sports or Eir, on the basis that their games weren’t free to air. In the meantime, his contract with RTÉ wasn’t renewed, having been removed from the live panel between the drawn and replayed All-Ireland finals. Not for the first time, he was highly critical of the process that led to his removal, and suggested it fed into his change of mind.
“There’s a personal thing in that I didn’t want to leave things the way it was in RTÉ. I felt very hurt. I thought he [Declan McBennett, RTÉ head of sport] was joking whenever it happened. He said to me – and he repeated it three times – that on the day of the drawn final, at 11 minutes past three, you behaved outrageously and unprofessionally towards a fellow pundit, Pat Spillane – you said to him, ‘would you stop pulling my arm?’ I said, ‘have you lost your marbles? Are you serious? He said: ‘Yes, seriously. We’re not renewing your contract’.
“I told Pat about this and he thought I was joking. We were like an ould married couple, we were like Statler and Waldorf. After that drawn final, I was warmly congratulating him after his nephew had scored that great goal. I was doing this in studio, live on telly.
“But when the new head of sport came in, it was quite obvious that this was going to be a micro-managed regime. Control was the key thing. He had come from news and it was very clear from an early stage that he was gunning for me.”
So signing up to Eir is an act of vengeance?
“Haha! No, I wouldn’t say that. That would not be right. But I loved the public conversation, don’t get me wrong. I was surprised by how enthusiastic I was when I got the call from Eir. I didn’t expect to get a call from anybody. And when I got the call, I could feel instinctively that I’d like to do it.
“But the RTÉ stuff, I was very hurt by that. I was there for 20 years. I had dealt with previous heads of sport like Glen Killane or Ryle Nugent and these were guys who I never saw. They’d text you every now and then and say, ‘that was great telly’. You’d meet them at the negotiations. There was no . . . it was made absolutely clear – ‘do what you do. Don’t offend the laws of libel but aside from that, the floor is yours’. And that’s what fostered the public conversation. Whatever it was, whether you were right or wrong, that’s what made for conversation.
“I don’t think it was about RTÉ in general. I got calls afterwards from people in the organisation going, ‘f*ck, seriously?’ It became about blandness and statistics. I’m not against statistics. I’ve been taking teams at the club all the way up, we’re very ambitious and we know there’s place for statistics in that realm.
“But in the public conversation, on RTÉ. When you’ve got a mother with young kids watching it for the fun, when you have an old farmer somewhere, the lads taking a drink in the bar – they don’t want to know about the productivity rate of Cork in the first half.”
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Post by veteran on Jan 15, 2020 16:09:17 GMT
Comical Joe takes the schilling and swallows his principles. There is a surprise.
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Post by sullyschoice on Jan 15, 2020 16:24:39 GMT
Brolly along with Whelan made complete exhibitions of themselves on All Ireland Final day defending Jonny Coopers fouling. It was beyond belief. It may have been the straw that broke the camels back. I know some people dont like Joanne Cantwell. I do personally. It was clear from early on that she wouldn't give Brolly as much latitude as previously afforded. Brolly can speak a lot of sense at times but unfortunately it gets obscured by his agenda driven vitriol.
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Post by Mickmack on Jan 15, 2020 16:28:06 GMT
Comical Joe takes the schilling and swallows his principles. There is a surprise. "I have principles but if you dont like them, I have others". Groucho Marx
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Post by Annascaultilidie on Jan 15, 2020 17:16:30 GMT
Brolly along with Whelan made complete exhibitions of themselves on All Ireland Final day defending Jonny Coopers fouling. It was beyond belief. It may have been the straw that broke the camels back. I know some people dont like Joanne Cantwell. I do personally. It was clear from early on that she wouldn't give Brolly as much latitude as previously afforded. Brolly can speak a lot of sense at times but unfortunately it gets obscured by his agenda driven vitriol. I also like Joanne Cantwell. I notice that a lot of people do not. I assumed it was a gender thing but a lot of those crowing named Jacqui Hurley, and I think another woman, as better, so for a good few people it isn't that.
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kerryexile
Fanatical Member
Whether you believe that you can, or that you can't, you are right anyway.
Posts: 1,126
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Post by kerryexile on Jan 16, 2020 10:59:14 GMT
i have often referred to the quality of punditry in TSG as being the equivalent of pubchat. There is a similar interview in the Examiner. It includes this paragraph: “I always thought about punditry, if you can see yourself standing at the bar with friends of yours who are knowledgeable about football, having a few pints and talking about the game, then you are in business as a pundit,” he said.Who doesn't consider themselves "knowledgeable" in a bar discussion? i agree with Veteran - money before principle. www.irishexaminer.com/breakingnews/sport/joe-brolly-you-either-become-irrelevant-or-you-accept-the-reality-975722.html
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Post by Mickmack on Jan 16, 2020 11:14:41 GMT
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Trending TRENDINGGAA Jan 15, 2020 By PJ Browne 16 shares 'There You Are Then, I'm A Hypocrite' - Brolly Explains Move To Eir Sport
There were eyebrows raised last week when it emerged that Joe Brolly would be a pundit on eir Sport for their coverage of this year's Allianz Football League.
The reason: Brolly has been a long-time opponent of the GAA selling rights to subscription TV channels. It raised the question, how will he justify it?
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On Wednesday, the Derryman sat before the media at the launch of eir's Allianz Leagues coverage to answer questions on his u-turn.
His rationale basically has three points: The media world has changed; he still feels that he has more to give following his exit from RTÉ; eir is more widely available than other pay TV channels.
"I think the GAA has rejected my arguments completely," said Brolly.
"I suppose increasingly, I was feeling that you're howling into the wilderness. You say it to any of the Gaelic footballers or hurlers who are here today that there's a problem with eir or with Sky. They'd say 'What the * are you talking about?' It's clear that there's going to be a whole new landscape and it's happening so quickly.
"I'm a GAA man and the GAA is a democracy. I'm very pally with Jarlath Burns who is going to be the next GAA president. He said, 'This is done, this is set in stone. This is never changing'.
Advertisement "Congress had three or four very half-hearted attempts to try and change the situation, all being emphatically rejected. I'm a lone voice really. It's going nowhere, it's dead.
"It becomes pointless, the argument is lost. My children for example [would say] 'What are you talking about?'
"We've seen what's happening with sports all over the world. Eventually, you sound like a Luddite, you sound like, 'Let's smash up the computers'. You become irrelevant.
"I was surprised when they (eir) did contact me to learn that 600,000 subscribers get the games for free with their mobile phone packages.
"On Saturday, I was down at Hope House, the addiction centre in Foxford. It's run by Sisters Delores and Attracta who are both GAA fanatics. They set it up in 1993.
"They were delighted because they've got eir through eir mobile phone package. During our meeting, they spent about half an hour listening to Midwest [Radio] on their mobiles and their coverage of the Junior All-Ireland semi-final between Kilmaine of Mayo and Na Gaeil in Kerry."
The realisation that the argument has been lost is a recent one for Brolly. In August, he tweeted in a reply on Twitter that "I would never for example work with SKY or Eir". When the existence of that (now deleted) tweet was put to Brolly, he responded: "Well, you know, there you are then, I'm a hypocrite".
After 20 years working for RTÉ, Brolly's last appearance on the national broadcaster was the drawn All-Ireland final between Dublin and Kerry. He was told by RTÉ head of sport Declan McBennett that his behaviour during the broadcast - mainly for telling Pat Spillane "Will you stop pulling my arm?" - had been unprofessional and that his contract would not be renewed.
"I was very hurt about what happened with RTÉ, and I don't want to leave it at that because I love the public conversation on the telly," said Brolly.
I also like opportunities. If somebody asked me to do something, I'd say yes like a parrot because you never know what you'd miss otherwise.
It's important also for the evangelising that I do in other areas like Cystic Fibrosis. I think also without the telly, your influence will diminish and diminish. It's all very well having a newspaper column in the [Sunday] Independent but nothing beats the immediacy of the debate and the fun.
Advertisement The 50-year-old believes that his time at RTÉ would have eventually ended quickly enough had he not got the boot in September.
"For me, what has happened with the new head of sport in RTÉ is that it's becoming very narrowly focused on statistics, on banality, on safety and not saying anything," Brolly said.
"Making sure there are no letters of complaint in. I got a script for the All-Ireland final. I took a few screenshots so I wouldn't doubt my own sanity. 'You say this and this, and your video package will be this and this.' I rang up said you need a newsreader or a narrator.
"Of course, statistics can be helpful. They can inform your narrative. But that's it. It's different for the manager of a team.
"Young people want edgy discussion, edgy debate. The younger generation will be lost to this heavy statistical discussion because one of the problems for young pundits who have come out of the game is that they've been in that culture of secrecy throughout their adult playing life, where nobody says anything.
"You get used to speaking without saying anything and it's a very easy thing then to just become statistics driven. So a statistician was brought in and I became like a politician being directed by a spin guru. Your phone would be going buzz, buzz, buzz with these stats coming in from a laptop.
Advertisement "You're like, '*, we haven't even reached half-time yet' and there's maybe 20 WhatsApp messages from the head of sport, who dominated the WhatsApp group.
"I was given the analogy of the murderer being hounded by Colombo. I turned around and there he was. It was a constant, constant thing.
"Colm [O'Rourke's] on the chopping block as well. He's got strong opinions. He's a man's man. He refuses to lick arse. You see that in the WhatsApp group, it's hilarious, you see the boys who are the arselickers, it's all, 'Great point, Declan. Oh, that's a great point. Brilliant point. Oh, thanks for that'.
"Every now and again, you might get a WhatsApp saying, 'Kerry's forwards have really improved at the start of the second half'. I would say, 'In other news, a bear *s in the woods'. Maybe something like that for the craic. This sort of stuff went down like a lead balloon. I stopped putting anything into it at all.
"For the replay this year, it came as a kick in the teeth for Colm after 30 years, instead of him being brought in, whatever reason he wasn't there in the first place, to bring in Stephen Rochford just typifies the banality, the blandness, the controlling culture that's there. You bring in a safe guy who's not going to say anything, he can go through statistics but who gives a *? Realistically, who gives a *?"
Brolly is scheduled to appear on coverage of four games for eir. He has been guaranteed that there will be no editorial intrusion.
Advertisement Ultimately, he enjoyed working with RTÉ, calling it "a blast". His relationship with previous heads of sport differed to that with Declan McBennett. Those were ones restricted to Monday morning texts telling him, 'that was terrific telly'.
Even more than eir, the target of Brolly's opposition to Gaelic games on subscription TV channels was Sky Sports. Appearing on their championship coverage is a move he does not rule out completely. Though, there is a caveat.
"Maybe if, for example, they were agreeable to putting Sky Sports free into the hospitals," said Brolly.
"That's big for me because I spent a lot of time in hospitals through the CF and organ donation stuff. It would have to be something like that and I don't see any reason why that shouldn't [happen].
"The most vulnerable people in the community are the ones who are not going to see the games. Everybody else can see the games, that's the reality now. There would need to be something like that."
Over seven weekends eir sport will broadcast 15 football and hurling games and become the home of Saturday night live GAA. The coverage kicks off on Saturday 25th January, with a massive triple header across its channels, including the All-Ireland football and hurling champions.
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Post by Mickmack on Jan 16, 2020 11:34:05 GMT
Its clear that TV coverage is driving the agenda as regards scheduling of inter county matches.
I mean, League games in January!
This has ramifications for club games, club holidays, Sigerson, U20 etc .
Joe Brolly, the great champion of clubs " what do you think of that"?
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Post by Mickmack on Jan 16, 2020 12:51:34 GMT
GAA The Joe Brolly transcript: His TV return, whether he is a 'hypocrite' and the RTÉ Whatsapp group Frank Roche
1 Joe Brolly was on hand to launch eir Sport’s 2020 Allianz League coverage with Cork’s Alan Cadogan, Wexford’s Rory O’Connor, Kerry’s Paul Geaney and Dublin’s Paul Mannion. Photo: Sportsfile As Joe Brolly prepares for a return to our television screens, he admits his crusade against the GAA’s pay-per-view broadcasting deals was becoming outdated. Frank Roche was on hand as the pundit also described the hurt of his controversial RTÉ exit.
Question: As someone who said you don't agree with pay TV, why have you said yes to eir?
Answer: "Well, I think I was the only one, certainly the only pundit ploughing a lone furrow on this, starting 10 years ago. Setting out a vision for the GAA community. I met Páraic Duffy at least three times before the first rights issue, before the second rights issue as well. He came to see me in Belfast and asked for my support. He asked me to stop what I was doing.
"And we're 10 years down the line now and eventually you have to come to the realisation that you're howling into the wilderness.
"The decision has been made by the GAA and there's no going back. I love the GAA and I'll defend it to the death to the outside world, even if I excoriate it on the inside and to the hierarchy.
"I didn't want to leave things the way it was in RTÉ. I felt very hurt. I thought he (head of Sport Declan McBennett) was joking whenever it happened.
"He said to me - and he repeated it three times - that on the day of the drawn final, at 11 minutes past three, you behaved outrageously and unprofessionally towards a fellow pundit. You said to him, 'Would you stop pulling my arm?' I said, 'Have you lost your marbles? Are you serious?' He said, 'Yes, seriously. We're not renewing your contract.'
"I told Pat (Spillane) about this and he thought I was joking. We were like an old married couple, we were like Statler and Waldorf. After that drawn final, I was warmly congratulating him after his nephew (Killian Spillane) had scored that great goal. I was doing this in studio, live on telly.
"But when the new head of sport came in, it was quite obvious that this was going to be a micro-managed regime. Control was the key thing… the idea of connection with an audience or anything like that became irrelevant and speaking your mind became a no-no. It became about control."
Q: So, is this an act of vengeance?
A: "Ha ha! I wouldn't say that. That would not be right. But I loved the public conversation, don't get me wrong. I was surprised by how enthusiastic I was when I got the call from eir. I didn't expect to get a call from anybody. And when I got the call, I could feel instinctively that I'd like to do it.
"But the RTÉ stuff, I was very hurt by that. I was there for 20 years. I had dealt with previous heads of sport like Glen Killane or Ryle Nugent and these were guys who I never saw. They'd text you every now and then and say, 'That was great telly'. You'd meet them at the negotiations.
"It was made absolutely clear - 'Do what you do. Don't offend the laws of libel but aside from that, the floor is yours.' And that's what fostered the public conversation. Whatever it was, whether you were right or wrong, that's what made for conversation."
Q: Was there an easier way? How could they have managed it better?
A: "I don't think it was about RTÉ in general. I got calls afterwards from people in the organisation going, 'F***, seriously?'
"One of the things that happened was he set up a WhatsApp group for the show, which he completely dominated. It was like a headmaster and the pupils. And then I started to get scripts - 'We want you to say this, we want you to cover this bit of video analysis. And I was like, 'F***, get a narrator. Get a newsreader.'
"It became about blandness and statistics. I'm not against statistics. But in the public conversation, on RTÉ, when you've got a mother with young kids watching it for the fun, when you have an old farmer somewhere, the lads taking a drink in the bar … they don't want to know about the productivity rate of Cork in the first half.
Q: Is he not entitled to do that, as editor of the show?
A: "He is, yeah. But that's fine. He can do that. But if that's the type of show that he wants, I'll not be in it …
"You see with the newer breed of pundits; for example, you see the rugby players who have just recently become pundits. Because they have come through that culture of saying nothing, they don't say anything. They're talking without speaking. And that's the process that's well under way now with RTÉ."
Q: Does that make the hurt … ?
A: "Well, I was very annoyed about it … like, I'm a big boy and that's it. I appreciate, look, I'm not the head of sport, he makes the decisions, that's the end of it.
"But, you know, 20 years, being such a strong part of the public conversation. And then there wasn't even a... Jesus, I didn't even get a f***ing clock!"
Q: Did the 3.11pm memo come from Declan McBennett?
A: "He said that to me three times; he kept saying it. 'At 11 minutes past three you said something outrageous, and it can't be tolerated, to Pat Spillane, a fellow analyst. You said to him, and he kept quoting it, 'Would you stop pulling my arm'."
Q: Was your contract going to be up?
A: "Aye, it was up now."
Q: When a journalist contacted RTÉ, they didn't want to make a comment?
A: "Well, that's not right either because he said 'We're not going to say anything about this and we'll just leave it', and I said 'Look, I appreciate that.' And then the next day it was in The Mirror, saying Joe Brolly's career is over."
Q: Are there conditions written into your eir contract?
A: "You try to play along and try to mould it into your direction. With this gig, they guaranteed me total independence. Total independence."
Q: Aren't you a hypocrite (regarding his attitude to GAA on subscription TV)?
A: "Well, I don't know, I mean I suppose you could say that. For me I think sooner or later you've got to move on. I can't keep … like, in ten years who is even going to remember any of this? 'Is he still f***king banging on about that?' It annoyed me at the time and, those meetings with Páraic Duffy, I was extremely annoyed."
Q: But do you know what I'm saying?
A: "I take your point, I know what you're saying. But I've chosen to do it. I think the reality is you either become irrelevant or you accept the reality. The GAA has made this decision. It's set in stone. I had conversations at a high level two years ago; this is over. Nobody is talking about it. No players are talking about it. I mean, if you said it to any of the players here today, they would say 'Have you lost your f***ing mind?' It's a generational thing. Also, I was conscious that I was more or less ploughing a lone furrow. The debate is dead."
Q: Is anyone going to beat Dublin this year?
A: "No, no. I would imagine Des Farrell will be smart enough to know that this is going to be a very light-touch regime. They're very independent, mature players and crucially they've got that component that all the greatest teams have - they've got an absolute trust in each other that comes from that very unusual thing where you've got a group where, when they play together, they respond as though a switch has been flicked to adversity.
Q: Will Dublin run out of road eventually?
A: "They will. They'll run into Clifford eventually… one of the great joys of being a Gaelic football follower now is watching David Clifford playing football. He's a complete football machine.
"They need structure in the team around him. He's got to be the go-to, as he is with East Kerry, and I don't think there's anything beyond that kid and he will most certainly win a senior All-Ireland, I suspect sooner rather than later.
"I say one more All-Ireland for the Dubs and then the following year Kerry, so long as they're structured around Clifford. He's not markable."
Irish Independent
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Post by Mickmack on Jan 16, 2020 12:52:33 GMT
Joe is back in the news. Thats all he craves i suppose. He doesnt need the money.
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Post by An Bradán on Jan 16, 2020 18:29:36 GMT
Brolly has had a few good ideas in the past but he has become a parody of himself. The standard of analysis on The Sunday Game has been dire and adversarial for years and Brolly's departure can only be seen as a positive.
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Post by Ballyfireside on Jan 16, 2020 20:45:43 GMT
Joe's day job as a barrister is punching holes in what is put before him, and as is human nature, that determines his thought process. He spots detail and make an issue out of it as is what court requires, and where I believe he is very good. But he will not contribute to a balanced view and as proper sport analysis requires. And yes, you need variety on TSG, all balanced the same way would be boring, and I think most pundits are different enough anyway (e.g. Canavan has a subtle Ulster angle) though there is also the issue with they being instructed to take a stance, opposing ones; gets more complicated when their own team playing and apart from a natural and understandable bias and which isn't the worst aspect, it screws it all up when they don't tell us what they are really thinking.
I have no doubt Brolly's heart is in the right place but anyone who puts him forward as a GAA analyst is not mindful of this above, maybe more focused on using whatever means to boost the audience, in this case senseless dramatisation of irrelevant angles.
I like McStay, apart from his not liking us much, O'Rourke is good apart from what he thinks of Michael Murphy, PatS only real weakness is that he is a bit forthright, Northies hate this, puke apart!
I think the new broom will sweep soon and where Tomás, Gooch and Ciarán Whelan stand out, maybe a bit of bias there? McConville was also good on a few Ulster matches (on the BBC?) and Anthony Molloy has a magic about him on Donegal's Highland Radio.
When I look at other sports, I think we are blessed with anchors and Michael Lyster was faultless while Cantwell is cutting it - a wee birdie tells me that it was our Joanne that had Joe get his P45 and I suppose she would have a say in her role and she is respected, well she got the gig!
John Mullane is surely the MOM of hurling; I think there should be a question on insurance forms as to your listening to him on a Sunday afternoon drive; I nearly crashed the first time, I had a few foreigners aboard and they still listen to him even though they know little and care less about hurling but his enthusiasm would wake the dead - mind you he nearly killed a few in his day when he was armed, and dangerous, not to be approached! Great travesty he never won an AI medal!
The season is opening and we are all getting would up, Dubs scalp on the first day would go a bit towards making up for not seeing the auld cannister there on the dresser as we turned into the turkey!
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Post by taibhse on Jan 20, 2020 17:16:29 GMT
Co. Board have issued the following statement:-
The East Kerry Board has nominated David Clifford (Fossa) as Captain of the Kerry Senior Football Team for 2020.
This nomination will be ratified next Monday night at the County Committee meeting.
We wish David every success for the year ahead!
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