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Post by kerrygold on Mar 18, 2019 21:43:11 GMT
Why are we so perplexed now about a player that has failed to take the bull by the horns in the 2016/17 finals and dictate the outcome?
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dano
Senior Member
Posts: 530
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Post by dano on Mar 18, 2019 21:59:17 GMT
The big OShea was left bully the Kerry midfield the last night. It won't happen again. Enright would be well able for him... and faster. Also the copper coloured geansai is unsightly and ,imho, should be discontinued.
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Post by veteran on Mar 18, 2019 21:59:43 GMT
I have commented before on aricles by this man Aiden O’Rourke who makes football sound as complicated as a mathematical formula. Somebody should send him a video of Corofin playing Dr. Crokes . Seemed a very uncomplicated matter to me but it maybe that I am a simple man who cannot appreciate complex formulae. For all the weaknesses he perceives in Kerry and all the strengths he perceives in Mayo the facts are we scored eleven times and conceded eleven times, identical to Mayo. There is the matter of the goal of course but as tends to happen with these laboratory experts , the result determines the narrative. I refer to him as a laboratory expert because I am not aware of him putting his theory into practice.
Of course we have weaknesses but , outside of Dublin. how many teams are blemish free. Pointing out our weaknesses is a legitimate exercise but the essence of the game is propelling the ball from one end of the field to the other as expeditiously and fruitfully as possible. Corofin have acquired a patent on that approach by adopting the principle of “ keep it simple stupid”. That will do me.
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Post by ballhopper34 on Mar 18, 2019 22:05:01 GMT
I have commented before on aricles by this man Aiden O’Rourke who makes football sound as complicated as a mathematical formula. Somebody should send him a video of Corofin playing Dr. Crokes . Seemed a very uncomplicated matter to me but it maybe that I am a simple man who cannot appreciate complex formulae. For all the weaknesses he perceives in Kerry and all the strengths he perceives in Mayo the facts are we scored eleven times and conceded eleven times, identical to Mayo. There is the matter of the goal of course but as tends to happen with these laboratory experts , the result determines the narrative. I refer to him as a laboratory expert because I am not aware of him putting his theory into practice. Of course we have weaknesses but , outside of Dublin. how many teams are blemish free. Pointing out our weaknesses is a legitimate exercise but the essence of the game is propelling the ball from one end of the field to the other as expeditiously and fruitfully as possible. Corofin have acquired a patent on that approach by adopting the principle of “ keep it simple stupid”. That will do me. Dead right, veteran. If you have the ball and a man is in a better position, give it to him. If he's marked side-by-side, don't give it to him. If he's in front of his man, give a head-high or lower pass to him. If he's a ball winner in the air, putting in a high one every now and then is ok. All of the above apply if the man is 10 yards or 35 yards away.
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Post by Mickmack on Mar 18, 2019 23:13:34 GMT
thats all fine ballhopper when you have the ball.
I agree that Aidan oRourkes style of writing over wrought but who can argue with his point that Mayo broke the tackle v Kerry and ran at pace through our defence. And that Kerry dont yet have the physically imposing defensive sixpack that most all ireland winning teams have. And that Kerry struggled to cope with Mayos huge onslaught when a Kerry player had possession.
I am filing it away under the heading of "Relegation threatened Mayo were more hungry that a Kerry side with one foot in the final". But a repeat in the final on 31.3.2019 v Mayo would be a setback. I hope its Mayo v Kerry league final.
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kerryexile
Fanatical Member
Whether you believe that you can, or that you can't, you are right anyway.
Posts: 1,117
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Post by kerryexile on Mar 18, 2019 23:23:12 GMT
I have commented before on aricles by this man Aiden O’Rourke who makes football sound as complicated as a mathematical formula. Somebody should send him a video of Corofin playing Dr. Crokes . Seemed a very uncomplicated matter to me but it maybe that I am a simple man who cannot appreciate complex formulae. For all the weaknesses he perceives in Kerry and all the strengths he perceives in Mayo the facts are we scored eleven times and conceded eleven times, identical to Mayo. There is the matter of the goal of course but as tends to happen with these laboratory experts , the result determines the narrative. I refer to him as a laboratory expert because I am not aware of him putting his theory into practice. Of course we have weaknesses but , outside of Dublin. how many teams are blemish free. Pointing out our weaknesses is a legitimate exercise but the essence of the game is propelling the ball from one end of the field to the other as expeditiously and fruitfully as possible. Corofin have acquired a patent on that approach by adopting the principle of “ keep it simple stupid”. That will do me I agree with you 100% Veteran. “Critics are like eunuchs in a harem; they know how it's done, they've seen it done every day, but they're unable to do it themselves.” ― Brendan Behan
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mossie
Fanatical Member
Posts: 2,568
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Post by mossie on Mar 18, 2019 23:42:29 GMT
I think Kelly had one of his better games for Kerry on Saturday night. It was very difficult in the second half against the strong wind and with Mayo pushing up. Still think it will be the 2 Shane’s come summer with Ryan starting IMO. It will be interesting to see if the Crokes lads will be involved this weekend. I just wish Kerry pick and stick with a keeper I thought it was reactionary to drop Shane Murphy last summer. Now it is a bit reactionary to be dropping Shane Ryan People on this site seem to react when our keeper makes an error. If you go through Stephen Cluxton's past , he has made several errors in goals and in big games too but what was outfield in front of him was so good , meant they never cost Dublin a game. Well actually maybe it did, wasn't he sent off in a big championship match they lost in his early years?? Go with one of the three on the panel for the next league match and stick with him. I d go Ryan myself
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Post by ballhopper34 on Mar 19, 2019 0:06:01 GMT
thats all fine ballhopper when you have the ball. I agree that Aidan oRourkes style of writing over wrought but who can argue with his point that Mayo broke the tackle v Kerry and ran at pace through our defence. And that Kerry dont yet have the physically imposing defensive sixpack that most all ireland winning teams have. And that Kerry struggled to cope with Mayos huge onslaught when a Kerry player had possession. I am filing it away under the heading of "Relegation threatened Mayo were more hungry that a Kerry side with one foot in the final". But a repeat in the final on 31.3.2019 v Mayo would be a setback. I hope its Mayo v Kerry league final. Absolutely, mickmack. The other side of the game is when you don't have the ball. Group tackling seems to be the method of choice this last while. Where Kerry suffer is the body-type of too many backs is similar...beat one and you can nearly beat them all. Open the centre and the proverbial train can go down there. Plenty to work on. No need for panic buttons being activated, although you mentioning a repeat performance against Mayo on Fool's Day Eve will take a lot of the shine off this league campaign. Roscommon might be well up for this one and we make the final due to Tyrone beating Galway in Omagh.
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keane
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Post by keane on Mar 19, 2019 11:20:31 GMT
Despite our completely inept defence I note we have conceded only one point more than Tyrone in the league to date, conceded the same as uber-defensive Galway and seven less than the untouchable Dubs. Mayo have conceded eight less than us but have scored twelve less. This is with us having yet to play one of the teams that has scored fewest in the Division in Roscommon.
By the sounds of things the defense was a bit ropey the last night, but there has been no problem with our collective tackling, work rate, doggedness etc every game before this. When any other team has put in an off colour performance in this league so far there has been the immediate refrain of 'they're in the middle of two heavy weeks of training'. The same refrain doesn't seem to have materialised to explain away Kerry's sluggishness the last night, instead we have a panel who can't tackle won't tackle, no interest in searching their soul etc. Honestly it sounds a bit like Aidan O'Rourke forgot about the rest of the games and just wrote about the last night's game in a vacuum.
Our concessions up to now have been 14, 13, 13, 20 (Dubs), 13, 7 - this is a couple of months after a meltdown in the Super 8s, a new backroom in place including an apparent tackling savant.
With an apparently straightforward couple of months ahead running up to the Super 8s the potential for improvement, between new players, new coaching etc is huge and when you are starting from a basis of only conceding ~13 points a game it's very encouraging. We have loads to work on but the starting point is a million miles better than I thought it was going to be at least.
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Post by kerrygold on Mar 19, 2019 11:32:44 GMT
Despite our completely inept defence I note we have conceded only one point more than Tyrone in the league to date, conceded the same as uber-defensive Galway and seven less than the untouchable Dubs. Mayo have conceded eight less than us but have scored twelve less. This is with us having yet to play one of the teams that has scored fewest in the Division in Roscommon. By the sounds of things the defense was a bit ropey the last night, but there has been no problem with our collective tackling, work rate, doggedness etc every game before this. When any other team has put in an off colour performance in this league so far there has been the immediate refrain of 'they're in the middle of two heavy weeks of training'. The same refrain doesn't seem to have materialised to explain away Kerry's sluggishness the last night, instead we have a panel who can't tackle won't tackle, no interest in searching their soul etc. Honestly it sounds a bit like Aidan O'Rourke forgot about the rest of the games and just wrote about the last night's game in a vacuum. Our concessions up to now have been 14, 13, 13, 20 (Dubs), 13, 7 - this is a couple of months after a meltdown in the Super 8s, a new backroom in place including an apparent tackling savant. With an apparently straightforward couple of months ahead running up to the Super 8s the potential for improvement, between new players, new coaching etc is huge and when you are starting from a basis of only conceding ~13 points a game it's very encouraging. We have loads to work on but the starting point is a million miles better than I thought it was going to be at least. Spot on, well said.
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Post by onlykerry on Mar 19, 2019 11:59:11 GMT
10 years since we beat Mayo in Tralee is the rumour!
Brutal night for football for both sides and Mayo did to us what we have done to others earlier in this campaign - they dug out a victory late in the day.
Fantastic league campaign for Kerry so far and wildly beyond expectations at the outset for most.
This deafeat could well be the most beneficial game of the campaign to date - sets the work program for the hiatus that will be April-July. The best months of the year for football and scarcely a game of consequence pencilled in given the lack of competition in Munster.
Would love to see PK take the additional step of releasing players to clubs so they can have competitive games once the league is over, particularly the younger players. Maybe a case to mind/manage some of the more senior players a little more but games will benefit the emerging group a heck of a lot more than being wrapped up in cotton wool for four months.
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keane
Fanatical Member
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Post by keane on Mar 19, 2019 12:29:29 GMT
Thanks. For the record I quite like O'Rourke's articles mostly and am in general positively disposed towards people who try and get into meatier analysis like he does. In this case I think he has fallen into a fairly common trap where he had decided before the league what Kerry's problem was going to be (workrate, tackling, collective defending & tactics) and found all the proof for it in the game against Mayo, ignoring (probably having not seen) the games against Cavan and Tyrone in particular where a more structured defence was used. His criticism about workrate and general bloody-mindedness are just a bit lazy given all the games that have been on TV up to now - we've clearly gone through the roof in that regard.
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Post by dc84 on Mar 19, 2019 13:03:22 GMT
Thanks. For the record I quite like O'Rourke's articles mostly and am in general positively disposed towards people who try and get into meatier analysis like he does. In this case I think he has fallen into a fairly common trap where he had decided before the league what Kerry's problem was going to be (workrate, tackling, collective defending & tactics) and found all the proof for it in the game against Mayo, ignoring (probably having not seen) the games against Cavan and Tyrone in particular where a more structured defence was used. His criticism about workrate and general bloody-mindedness are just a bit lazy given all the games that have been on TV up to now - we've clearly gone through the roof in that regard. Agree we have worked hard throughout the league maybe too hard foe a few lads in their first/2nd years of ic conditioning. Mayo just worked harder with a stronger more seasoned team. We hopefully wont have to play in such conditions again this year. Id fancy us to get revenge in 2 weeks if the day is dry
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Post by kerrygold on Mar 19, 2019 15:49:48 GMT
Thanks. For the record I quite like O'Rourke's articles mostly and am in general positively disposed towards people who try and get into meatier analysis like he does. In this case I think he has fallen into a fairly common trap where he had decided before the league what Kerry's problem was going to be (workrate, tackling, collective defending & tactics) and found all the proof for it in the game against Mayo, ignoring (probably having not seen) the games against Cavan and Tyrone in particular where a more structured defence was used. His criticism about workrate and general bloody-mindedness are just a bit lazy given all the games that have been on TV up to now - we've clearly gone through the roof in that regard. I think his articles are worth reading also. I don't know why we cant take whatever nuggets are in articles and have a look at them.
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Post by kerrygold on Mar 19, 2019 15:51:35 GMT
Thanks. For the record I quite like O'Rourke's articles mostly and am in general positively disposed towards people who try and get into meatier analysis like he does. In this case I think he has fallen into a fairly common trap where he had decided before the league what Kerry's problem was going to be (workrate, tackling, collective defending & tactics) and found all the proof for it in the game against Mayo, ignoring (probably having not seen) the games against Cavan and Tyrone in particular where a more structured defence was used. His criticism about workrate and general bloody-mindedness are just a bit lazy given all the games that have been on TV up to now - we've clearly gone through the roof in that regard. Agree we have worked hard throughout the league maybe too hard foe a few lads in their first/2nd years of ic conditioning. Mayo just worked harder with a stronger more seasoned team. We hopefully wont have to play in such conditions again this year. Id fancy us to get revenge in 2 weeks if the day is dry Mayo remain a serious outfit as shown in their finals with Dublin in 2016 & 2017. I don't think they have gone away to be honest.
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Post by Mickmack on Mar 19, 2019 16:34:45 GMT
They have retained their division 1 status and given Kerry a little shot across the bows. They might leave it at that and not turn up v Monaghan. I wont be surprised if that happens.
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Post by kerrygold on Mar 19, 2019 16:47:21 GMT
Mayo have rotated their starting 15 for all games to date in the NFL which makes their position going into the final round all the more impressive. I'd imagine the next starting 15 will also be chomping at the bit next time out.
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Post by onlykerry on Mar 19, 2019 17:56:03 GMT
Final round and nearly everything up for grabs - Nobody definite for the final and nobody relegated - makes for an interesting day next Sunday.
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roll
Full Member
Posts: 93
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Post by roll on Mar 19, 2019 20:00:41 GMT
the only thing i can't figure out is why the opposition's kick passes into their forwards seem to stick a lot of the time against us.. seems odd but its happening. apart from that, i love watching these lads finding their voices. they've won a few games against the head which, for a bunch of kids, is really impressive. onwards and upwards.
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Post by ballhopper34 on Mar 19, 2019 20:32:05 GMT
The advanced mark is proving effective for some teams, Kerry and Tyrone v Dublin especially. Dublin making very little use of it as it won't be around come championship time.
Different game, different weather, different pressure come championship. Speed and youth will be better matched against the physically stronger individuals on the harder ground. We hope so, anyway.
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brigid
Senior Member
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Post by brigid on Mar 19, 2019 21:05:59 GMT
I was not in Tralee but having recorded the game, I watched it on Sunday evening. I was disappointed that Sean O’Shea continued bringing the Galway centre back, Michael Plunkett, into midfield and even as far as the Kerry half back line. Overall, I thought Plunkett had the better of the exchanges with the result that the Kerry backs were under constant pressure.
Another concern is the amount of breaking ball that Mayo easily collected around midfield. I thought, Oh for a Paul Galvin. I didn’t record the 2018 minor football final V Galway, but during the first half I was very disappointed of the amount of braking ball that Galway collected. No action from the Kerry side-line.I had estimated that there were approx. 12 breaking balls in the first half and Kerry players only got 3 of them. The second half was better as Paul O’Shea was moved to midfield and there was less breaking ball. As 2 of the present Kerry management were with the minors they must pay attention to this. I am sure the management of other Super 8 teams will be well aware of this weakness in the Kerry set-up.
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Post by buck02 on Mar 19, 2019 21:20:15 GMT
Funny Brigid I commented on the issue of breaking ball after the Galway game in the league. We were wiped out on breaks that day. It is something that needs working on.
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Post by Mickmack on Mar 19, 2019 21:35:42 GMT
I was not in Tralee but having recorded the game, I watched it on Sunday evening. I was disappointed that Sean O’Shea continued bringing the Galway centre back, Michael Plunkett, into midfield and even as far as the Kerry half back line. Overall, I thought Plunkett had the better of the exchanges with the result that the Kerry backs were under constant pressure. Another concern is the amount of breaking ball that Mayo easily collected around midfield. I thought, Oh for a Paul Galvin. I didn’t record the 2018 minor football final V Galway, but during the first half I was very disappointed of the amount of braking ball that Galway collected. No action from the Kerry side-line.I had estimated that there were approx. 12 breaking balls in the first half and Kerry players only got 3 of them. The second half was better as Paul O’Shea was moved to midfield and there was less breaking ball. As 2 of the present Kerry management were with the minors they must pay attention to this. I am sure the management of other Super 8 teams will be well aware of this weakness in the Kerry set-up. Here it is. One of the great minor finals.
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Post by kerrygold on Mar 19, 2019 22:24:01 GMT
Any plans to put up the Kerry v Mayo game?
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Post by Mickmack on Mar 19, 2019 23:17:11 GMT
If its sent to me i will post it
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Post by Mickmack on Mar 19, 2019 23:25:22 GMT
I watched the second half earlier. What a massive performance by Aiden oShea in that half!
When Clarke went off, Hennelly had three kickouts. He kicked the first one straight to a Kerryman. The second two were sent long and Mayo won both breaking balls.
The Mayo midfield totally wiped Kerry out in that half. The lad that got the goal could have scored a goal earlier only for a fine save by Kelly.
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Post by dc84 on Mar 20, 2019 7:43:20 GMT
If its sent to me i will post it Dont bother 😁
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