Joxer
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Post by Joxer on Jul 24, 2018 12:25:50 GMT
I would assume the logic of Geaney coming back on was that he is a bigger threat in the air and would need more minding under a high ball than bjk. At that stage we needed a goal. I am not sure I accept the logic but that is the most logical explanation I can think of. And I think the decision to bring him back on was made at the time he was taken off if you know what I mean. As he came off the field that time, EF had a conversation with him which got me thinking at the time that he’s going to come back on.
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kerryexile
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Post by kerryexile on Jul 24, 2018 13:08:23 GMT
An awful lot of verbiage analysing the symptoms but never tackled the disease. I would be interested in understanding what you mean. Could you expand Firstly most of the article is merely telling us what transpired on Sunday. We all saw that. We don’t have to read an article to find out. That does not constitute good analysis. Some are listed here. 1. Monaghan beat Kerry up in every way possible on Sunday, except where it matters: on the scoreboard.
2. In the first half there were some late attempts from Peter Crowley to drift into a cover position if Monaghan’s attacks were slowed but almost without exception he never achieved that.
3. In the second period Crowley abandoned all notions of covering as the Kingdom rolled the dice to try to recover lost ground.
4. There was a distinct difference to how Kerry’s middle third defended this week as opposed to against Galway.
5. Last week Crowley sat stubbornly in front of Galway’s front two of Comer and Burke and the middle third dropped off towards their 45 to press.
6. Pressing Monaghan in the middle was a disaster for Kerry. They couldn’t match the Farney men’s running power and each time Monaghan broke quickly and switched the point of attack they found themselves carrying ball into a vast space behind midfield with either a one on one or two on two ahead to feed.
7. It is a very long time since Conor McManus has been afforded the luxury of only having to beat his direct marker to shoot having been supplied with cushioned passes.
8. To emphasise how simple and direct Monaghan’s offence was, consider that they have a very well drilled second phase of attack that kicks in when they are initially repelled and the space in front is closed off.
9. In almost eighty minutes of football, Monaghan never had to set up their second phase once. In short, every attack found space and a direct route to where they wanted to go.
10. Rory Beggan gave a masterclass in how to use variety in the short term to eventually open up space further out with his kickouts.
11. In the early exchanges, smart movement enabled Beggan to place restarts to runners hitting gaps mostly inside his 45. It was when Kerry had taken this bait that the Monaghan keeper was able to delay for runners to hit at and beyond midfield.
12. Hughes and Kearns broke Kerry’s kick outs relentlessly in the first half and the home team dominated break ball.
Secondly at the start he states that Kerry had three areas to challenge and proceeds to explain the steps. We know that Kerry played badly but nowhere in this part does he relate any “areas to challenge” to either a Monaghan player playing well or a Kerry player playing poorly. (McManus is mentioned in terms of a “supply” but not in any other way) For any game of football played this year you could cut and paste that section and change the counties. Broken down into overly simple tasks, Kerry had three areas to challenge Monaghan’s strengths if they were to achieve a foothold in the game:
• Eliminate early ball into McManus
• Maximise return on both kickouts
• Supply their own high return forwards with usable ball in space
As with any team, you would expect Kerry to go after these tasks in a manner that best fits their own strengths and personnel but as basic as it seems, working towards these three objectives were the ball game.
In looking at how Kerry attempted to cut off supply to Conor McManus we have first to examine how they collectively approached defending and protecting the supply lines.
There were two basic premises to how they wanted to achieve this:
• Approach dominance on restarts at both ends
• Trust their middle third to exert enough pressure on their opposite numbers to create turnovers, slow supply and interfere with the quality of passing.
Both of these basic elements of how Kerry expected to defend depended on their players’ capacity to go head to head with direct opponents and prevail.
Both assumptions were destroyed in the first half in particular and Kerry should have paid a much higher price on the scoreboard.
Kerry are not playing well. There is something amiss. Good players are not doing themselves justice. That is a symptom of the disease. The disease is the unknown that is effecting the players. Telling us what they do when they play badly is not very enlightening. I would expect a good analyst to tell us how to tackle the disease. For example Mike Quirke did have suggestions on what should happen in the next game.
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Post by sayitasiseeit on Jul 24, 2018 13:20:52 GMT
carrying the 10/11 extended panel members up to Monaghan the morning of the game is an absolute farce. A kiss me arse of an effort to portray it as a “squad game”. I’m sure a lot of those 10/11 would have preferred to train themselves, or to fall in with their club set ups for the weekend. Rather than being stuck in a bus 5 hours each way. Those lads want to be able to make an impact in training, to be Fresh and bouncing come Tuesday night. In all likelihood they were probably more zapped after that marathon day than the players who played the game.
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Post by yellowbelly on Jul 24, 2018 13:49:22 GMT
Isn't it amazing how Stats can lie on a game. And there was me thinking we got hosed in midfield yet the kickout stats won by Kerry were Kerry Kickouts (28) Won (22) Lost (6) Monaghan Kickouts (28) Won (6) Lost (22) Total Kickouts (56) Won (28) Lost (28)
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Post by OnTheForty on Jul 24, 2018 13:54:29 GMT
Moran was shocking at the finish with that hail mary...i agree on that. This. Exactly this. How many times has Moran tried to go for glory with an impossible shot? Scores are level, time is running out, Kerry have possession on the 45. Time for the experienced heads to keep cool. Work the ball into scoring zone & scoring players for a shot or free. We could and should have lost the game, even from Monaghan's last attack, but we could also have snatched a win. Oh to have Colm Cooper out there directing operations.
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Post by buck02 on Jul 24, 2018 14:06:29 GMT
Moran was shocking at the finish with that hail mary...i agree on that. This. Exactly this. How many times has Moran tried to go for glory with an impossible shot? Scores are level, time is running out, Kerry have possession on the 45. Time for the experienced heads to keep cool. Work the ball into scoring zone & scoring players for a shot or free. We could and should have lost the game, even from Monaghan's last attack, but we could also have snatched a win. Oh to have Colm Cooper out there directing operations. The whistle blew just after he kicked it. If he had handpassed it across to Steven O Brien and the ref blew the whistle then there would be people on here slating him for not having a go when he knew time was up.
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Post by onlykerry on Jul 24, 2018 14:13:37 GMT
Moran was shocking at the finish with that hail mary...i agree on that. This. Exactly this. How many times has Moran tried to go for glory with an impossible shot? Scores are level, time is running out, Kerry have possession on the 45. Time for the experienced heads to keep cool. Work the ball into scoring zone & scoring players for a shot or free. We could and should have lost the game, even from Monaghan's last attack, but we could also have snatched a win. Oh to have Colm Cooper out there directing operations. You could look at it differently - he was not afraid to have a go and showed leadership, maybe he was aware the time was all but up. In other comments JOD is castigated for working the ball into a better scoring zone and not having the bottle to drop the shoulder and go for it. Knowing the result is always great when we comment on a players split second decision on what to do. Moran has consistently taken on responsibilities when other shirked them even though he lets himeself open to criticism he still tries - we all know he is not a consistent place kicker but when our better kickers were not available he still had the bottle to try. I really find the constant criticism of a guy who has fought back from two cruciate and one eye injury difficult to understand - he is and has been an excellent servant to the Kerry cause.
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keane
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Post by keane on Jul 24, 2018 14:17:39 GMT
What was it, three seconds between Moran taking on the kick and the whistle being blown? Why oh why didn't he play it around and get slated for that instead.
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Post by Mickmack on Jul 24, 2018 14:32:35 GMT
What was it, three seconds between Moran taking on the kick and the whistle being blown? Why oh why didn't he play it around and get slated for that instead. By kicking it away he made deegans job easy to blow it up. Thats the point
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Post by a01bf4eb on Jul 24, 2018 15:00:08 GMT
What was it, three seconds between Moran taking on the kick and the whistle being blown? Why oh why didn't he play it around and get slated for that instead. By kicking it away he made deegans job easy to blow it up. Thats the point Deegan actually blew the whistle before the clock struck 75 mins. Added time is supposed to be A MINIMUM amount of time added on. This only confirmed his bias which had earlier been indicated by a few shocking calls in the 2nd half.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jul 24, 2018 15:03:57 GMT
The best opportunity was jod's, I would have gone mental if Deegan had blown up while we were hand passing along the 45. Moran should be criticised for the awful effort not choosing to take it.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jul 24, 2018 15:17:28 GMT
Isn't it amazing how Stats can lie on a game. And there was me thinking we got hosed in midfield yet the kickout stats won by Kerry were Kerry Kickouts (28) Won (22) Lost (6) Monaghan Kickouts (28) Won (6) Lost (22) Total Kickouts (56) Won (28) Lost (28) I was surprised to read those alright. It felt from watching the game that after about 20 minutes, things did settle down for the most part and we did greater joy.
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Post by dc84 on Jul 24, 2018 15:20:27 GMT
Isn't it amazing how Stats can lie on a game. And there was me thinking we got hosed in midfield yet the kickout stats won by Kerry were Kerry Kickouts (28) Won (22) Lost (6) Monaghan Kickouts (28) Won (6) Lost (22) Total Kickouts (56) Won (28) Lost (28) I was surprised to read those alright. It felt from watching the game that after about 20 minutes, things did settle down for the most part and we did greater joy. As i am abroad i only saw second half where i thought we won the midfield with moran best on show there seemed to be a decent wind there judging by the distance some of the kickouts went in either half
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Post by buck02 on Jul 24, 2018 15:23:36 GMT
I was surprised to read those alright. It felt from watching the game that after about 20 minutes, things did settle down for the most part and we did greater joy. As i am abroad i only saw second half where i thought we won the midfield with moran best on show there seemed to be a decent wind there judging by the distance some of the kickouts went in either half There was only a very slight wind that picked up a bit in the second half into the goals we were playing into. In the first half the flags behind the goals were not moving at all.
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Joxer
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Post by Joxer on Jul 24, 2018 15:57:38 GMT
This. Exactly this. How many times has Moran tried to go for glory with an impossible shot? Scores are level, time is running out, Kerry have possession on the 45. Time for the experienced heads to keep cool. Work the ball into scoring zone & scoring players for a shot or free. We could and should have lost the game, even from Monaghan's last attack, but we could also have snatched a win. Oh to have Colm Cooper out there directing operations. The whistle blew just after he kicked it. If he had handpassed it across to Steven O Brien and the ref blew the whistle then there would be people on here slating him for not having a go when he knew time was up. And with the added bonus of also being able to slate Stephen O’Brien....
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Post by yellowbelly on Jul 24, 2018 16:12:37 GMT
I was surprised to read those alright. It felt from watching the game that after about 20 minutes, things did settle down for the most part and we did greater joy. As i am abroad i only saw second half where i thought we won the midfield with moran best on show there seemed to be a decent wind there judging by the distance some of the kickouts went in either half No real wind, and yes, Rory Began had one kickout in the 19th minute that landed over the Kerry '45 before being won near the Kerry 20m line. Amazing kick.
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peanuts
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Post by peanuts on Jul 24, 2018 16:28:52 GMT
As i am abroad i only saw second half where i thought we won the midfield with moran best on show there seemed to be a decent wind there judging by the distance some of the kickouts went in either half No real wind, and yes, Rory Began had one kickout in the 19th minute that landed over the Kerry '45 before being won near the Kerry 20m line. Amazing kick. Wasn't at the game but it was said at half time that there was a strong breeze favouring Monaghan in the first half....
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Post by veteran on Jul 24, 2018 16:54:27 GMT
Reading Aiden O'Rourke's article is like wading through a mathematical proposition. Has football become that complicated? If so, perhaps it should become a degree course at third level. There are some people who feel that Eamon's downfalll is precisely that- over thinking matters with little street wisdom when the battle is on.
This question is not posed to belittle Aiden O'Rourke but has he experience of implementing his theories? In other words what is his track record at a practical level. That just might be pertinent.
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Clogher
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Post by Clogher on Jul 24, 2018 17:15:29 GMT
No real wind, and yes, Rory Began had one kickout in the 19th minute that landed over the Kerry '45 before being won near the Kerry 20m line. Amazing kick. Wasn't at the game but it was said at half time that there was a strong breeze favouring Monaghan in the first half.... Strong breeze? I wish!! We were baked in the stand..only an occasional waft of air
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Post by oldschool on Jul 24, 2018 17:46:26 GMT
Is it only me or did anyone notice the amount of off the ball pulling pushing and dragging of Kerry players in Clones before even the ball was thrown in, particular attention being given to David Clifford? Linesmen didn't want to know. Can we blame Kevin McStay Roscommon manager, for losing it with a linesman?
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Post by Annascaultilidie on Jul 24, 2018 17:47:40 GMT
Can we blame Kevin McStay Roscommon manager, for losing it with a linesman? Yes. Completely unacceptable behaviour.
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Post by oldschool on Jul 24, 2018 18:00:49 GMT
Is there even the smallest chance that we will deal with our kick out woes (in training) before next game. A blind man could see that we are really losing momentum here. I'm getting tired of spouting about this.
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Post by oldschool on Jul 24, 2018 18:04:20 GMT
Can we blame Kevin McStay Roscommon manager, for losing it with a linesman? Yes. Completely unacceptable behaviour. Frustration with linesman . They often have selective blindness. While behaviour towards linesman is unacceptable, it is understandable
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1979
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Post by 1979 on Jul 24, 2018 18:21:19 GMT
Yes. Completely unacceptable behaviour. Frustration with linesman . They often have selective blindness. While behaviour towards linesman is unacceptable, it is understandable Fully agreed. While one can’t condone any kind of physical confrontation with the officials, it’s completely understandable that players and management get frustrated that off the ball aggression is not picked up. There are 7 officials at all inter-county games. Are we to believe that they don’t see or hear any of the off the ball provocation that goes on? The powers that be could take this curse on our game seriously but have obviously taken a conscious decision not to do so.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jul 24, 2018 18:29:33 GMT
On one hand, I can have sympathy with Mcstay but then I think of mcstay as a Sunday game pundit and what he would say if for example a Kerry player did similar and my sympathy immediately evaporates,
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Post by Annascaultilidie on Jul 24, 2018 18:37:51 GMT
Yes. Completely unacceptable behaviour. Frustration with linesman . They often have selective blindness. While behaviour towards linesman is unacceptable, it is understandable The question wasn't can we understand the behaviour but can we blame McStay for it and I say yes it was McStay's fault.
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Post by southward on Jul 24, 2018 18:46:41 GMT
Is it only me or did anyone notice the amount of off the ball pulling pushing and dragging of Kerry players in Clones before even the ball was thrown in, particular attention being given to David Clifford? Linesmen didn't want to know. Can we blame Kevin McStay Roscommon manager, for losing it with a linesman? Lord Gough was probably unsighted again.
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Post by john4 on Jul 24, 2018 19:01:06 GMT
The pressures on inter county management is savage, McStay hit boiling point and having seen the incident I understand his frustration but the ban is warranted, however there is an onus on the GAA to train match officials on how to diffuse situations like this. From what I saw the linesman actually aggravated the situation by his approach towards McStay.
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Post by dc84 on Jul 24, 2018 19:02:27 GMT
As i am abroad i only saw second half where i thought we won the midfield with moran best on show there seemed to be a decent wind there judging by the distance some of the kickouts went in either half No real wind, and yes, Rory Began had one kickout in the 19th minute that landed over the Kerry '45 before being won near the Kerry 20m line. Amazing kick. He is in fairness the best in the country now beggan pure class
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1979
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Post by 1979 on Jul 24, 2018 19:11:26 GMT
Frustration with linesman . They often have selective blindness. While behaviour towards linesman is unacceptable, it is understandable The question wasn't can we understand the behaviour but can we blame McStay for it and I say yes it was McStay's fault. Of course McStay is responsible for his own actions, but is there not a wider question to be debated about why he hid what he did? In an enjoyable piece about Clifford by Gavin Cummiskey in the Irish Times today, he casually mentioned Clifford being grabbed by the throat by his marker. He got a yellow card for standing up for himself. In the run up to the goal Clifford did brilliantly to extricate himself from the shackles of his marker. He could easily have fallen to the ground and not scored the goal. It’s safe to assume that there would have been no consequence for his marker had he done so. Cian O’Neill was fuming after Kildare’s star player was sent off when he tried to rid himself of some off the ball attention. Just three examples from this weekend of stuff that must drive players, coaches and supporters mad. Thankfully one of them didn’t go unpunished.
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