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Post by glengael on Aug 31, 2018 10:25:57 GMT
2008 was also an upset. Kerry were warm favourites with the bookies for that one. I remember thinking at the time that the seeds of the 08 All Ireland loss were being sown that day in June in Killarney. Very little happened prior to the final to change my mind, with the exception of the Galway match. So Kerry were not favourites in my book by any stretch of the imagination.
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Post by kerrygold on Aug 31, 2018 12:38:36 GMT
Unless we can do something major in 2019 we are on course for one of our worst decades in our history matching our 1 title in the 1990's, the lowest return since we began winning titles in the 1900's - one could argue that 3 final appearances makes the 2010's slightly better than the 1990's. Different horse in 2019. New voice and the young players a year older. The incoming manager will view it as an All-Ireland year.
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Post by skybluezone on Aug 31, 2018 14:23:37 GMT
Do any of the Dubs contributors on here reckon there’ll be changes to the side for the final. Will O’Sullivan be risked? Will Fitzsimons come in for Murchin? Surely Costello has played his way on to the team (perhaps at the expense of Callaghan, what a sub he’d be to bring in)? Would O’Gara have a role to play on Sunday? He’s not the sharpest implement at Jim’s disposal, but he has caused Tyrone trouble in the past. If O'Sullivan is fit he starts. End of. Murchan could take Sludden. But toss of a coin between him and Mick Fitz. Costello is a savage impact sub. First man in and I think Jim will go with that on Sunday. O'Gara started last year's final and it didn't go well for him. That said he got very little ball sent in and anything that was sent in was of the hopeful sort. If we need a different plan in 2nd half he may well get a run. Only target man we have, unless CK goes inside for a spell. 2 more sleeps...
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Post by Annascaultilidie on Aug 31, 2018 16:17:38 GMT
Hopefully the two sleeps aren't followed by a snorefest.
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Post by kerryfanatic on Aug 31, 2018 17:23:15 GMT
Do most people here on forum want tyrone or dublin to win or not care... of course dublin are clear favourites
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Post by kerrygold on Aug 31, 2018 17:28:42 GMT
Do most people here on forum want tyrone or dublin to win or not care... of course dublin are clear favourites It will be like suffering a dose of double scour which ever way it goes!!
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Post by skybluezone on Aug 31, 2018 17:59:28 GMT
Hopefully the two sleeps aren't followed by a snorefest. That is firmly in Tyrones hands.
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Post by misteallaigh abú on Aug 31, 2018 20:03:11 GMT
It's hard to be excited about this game. Normally I'm looking forward to the game a week or so beforehand and the build up adds to the excitement. This year has been a damp squib I'm afraid. I don't care who wins, it would be nice to have a brilliant game to end the season though, however, I can't see that happening. Dublin should win handy based on all known form. Tyrone need to catch Dublin by surprise, it would be a massive surprise to me if they did. Roll on 2019!!!
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Post by taggert on Aug 31, 2018 21:06:43 GMT
Working in Dublin and chatting to Dubs and non-Dubs, I havent met a single person who thinks Tyrone might win, let alone will win. And in fairness to the Dubs I've spoken to, there was no element of cockiness, jusy realism. Simply put, they are a great side that are a level above everyone else at this point. And everybody knows it. I think coupled with their demolition job on Ty in the semi last year, and the competition from within to even get 5 minutes on the pitch, there appears to be no chance of a surprise. To that end, it has been really flat as regards build up and excitement. To all intents and purposes, its as big a foregone conclusion in a 2-horse finale that I can ever recall....
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Post by Ard Mhacha on Aug 31, 2018 22:28:02 GMT
Do most people here on forum want tyrone or dublin to win or not care... of course dublin are clear favourites Usually with most AI finals, I'd root for one of the teams. These two are well down my likeability list though, so it's hard to shout for anyone. I'll still be watching. I wouldn't miss an All Ireland final. Whoever plays the better stuff, and deserves to win, well fair play. They'll be worthy winners. I still won't be happy though
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Post by thebluepanther on Aug 31, 2018 22:56:37 GMT
Working in Dublin and chatting to Dubs and non-Dubs, I havent met a single person who thinks Tyrone might win, let alone will win. And in fairness to the Dubs I've spoken to, there was no element of cockiness, jusy realism. Simply put, they are a great side that are a level above everyone else at this point. And everybody knows it. I think coupled with their demolition job on Ty in the semi last year, and the competition from within to even get 5 minutes on the pitch, there appears to be no chance of a surprise. To that end, it has been really flat as regards build up and excitement. To all intents and purposes, its as big a foregone conclusion in a 2-horse finale that I can ever recall.... There is always a worry that things don't go as expected. 2014 is always lurking in people's mind. . Although it's generally accepted that for Tyrone to win they need to bring something different to this game and I wonder do they have the armoury to do this, they certainly will give everything they have and Dublin need to match them with fire from the start. From a Dublin point of view a fit Jack mc Caffrey is massive and offers so much. I'd agree that winning last year by a big margin has dampened the build up. I was discussing this last night with a few Dubs and its also possible the super 8s have contributed to this lack of excitement. Certainly from a Dublin perspective. Last year's semi Final had a surreal atmosphere where after 15mins everyone in the stadium knew the game was over. Thankfully for the neutral , The final was electric and could of went either way. Normally it gets interesting from quarter final onwards , but the super 8s sort of dragged out the inevitable from a Dublin perspective . We had a good battle in Omagh , but then a dead rubber game against Roscommon. Now we have the familiarity for the first time that a team who beats a team in the quarter finals gets to play them again in the final. This for me doesnt help this particular build up . Although I still expect a great atmosphere on Sunday.
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Post by Ballyfireside on Sept 1, 2018 0:26:09 GMT
A good team insulates a manager and a very good team does that very well - with respect Jim Gavin has seldom had to deal with a crisis - in a such rare case it was one Diarmuid Connolly who bailed them out v Mayo. Harte on the other hand is nothing if he isn't the world's greatest for springing surprises.
Standing behind Cluxton's kick-outs at Omagh I couldn't help but notice that the Dublin Jerseys looked Square while Tyrone were rectangular, i.e. Dubs are filled out men. But then Limerick shaking hands pre-match with Galway was akin to sons shaking hands with their fathers, but the boys became men that day and prevailed.
Donegal were 14/1 in 1992 but yes, it may be Dublin's to loose and there is a gap between them and Galway and Dubs of '92, but if Tyrone win and Colm Cavanagh gets MOTM then he could also get footballer of the year, Padraig Power says 54/1 this won't happen, i.e. €1 bet @ 5/1 on Tyrone = €6 going on Cavanagh at @ 8/1 = €54 - my crazy, maybe not so crazy bet!
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Post by MrRasherstoyou on Sept 1, 2018 8:15:43 GMT
Seems like a very subdued run up to this years Final. I haven't been bothered by people looking for tickets this year at all. Rashers/Skyblue what's your take on it. Hi Jackiel. My take on the quietness is that the major factor has to be Mayo nor Kerry being in the final. Kerry of course as they are the pre-eminent county and the great rivalry with ourselves, plus the letdown of their early summer promise not gathering into a late summer crescendo. After the games in Munster and especially the thrilling evisceration of Cork in their all-new stadium the media and many neutrals were very sold on not just a huge Kerry challenge for Sam but also a mouthwatering prospect of all-out great skillful attacking football. Kerry's forward lines in particular were the main talking point for a while there to the point where Brolly even said some of the Dublin forwards wouldn't get into it, and he wasn't talking about O'Gara. Then came the big land of the Galway game and performance, and Kerry never raised a head of steam thereafter. So since that alot of media coverage and general talk went very flat and negative. And then you had the fact that Mayo and their bandwagon have been surrounded by a massive amount of hoopla over the last number of years. It's easy to forget perhaps the huge build-up, tension, and expectation that came with games and especially finals where they are involved. It was all-consuming and there's no doubt they had become the nation's darling team as Paul Kimmage or somebody put it. At times it has been virtually a coronation in waiting phenomenon. I've also never seen support like it, their ability to get hold of and corner the market for non-competing senior county tickets for finals was extraordinary. In 2013 they were fully expected to win, they had done their apprenticeship the previous two years, they had already beaten that Dublin team, and the concensus was they only needed to not concede early goals. They couldn't possibly lose two finals in a row again. And Dublin had a new and unproven coach and several young, unproven players, who in fact mostly did not play well on the day. And Kerry had exposed many defensive flaws in the semifinal, during which Gooch gave an exhibition of the finest 35 minutes of attacking football ever seen. And they got the perfect start to the final, and even after Dublin had put in a massive effort to get back and take the lead, Andy Moran's goal at a vital stage should have driven them home to victory. Instead they flagged and were run ragged around the middle. They should have lost by more but for Dublin being down to 12 or 13 fit players in the last 10 minutes. For me at that stage it was crystal clear that Mayo team just weren't good enough to win Sam, and yet the nation went into denial on their behalf and continued to believe and hope. Then came the dramas and tragedies of their semifinal defeats in 14 and 15. Much has been made of 'what ifs' around the games with Kerry but ask oneself the following, if they had beaten Kerry would they have beaten Donegal, not including the evidence of the previous year when a still-partying Donegal squad failed to show up at all? I very much doubt it and I'm any case their defeat to Kerry itself was yet another example of their chronic endemic culture of defeatism, delusion, denial, self-destruction,and excuses. This in itself seemed only to fuel the national soap operatic fairytale that went in their wake. Never once were they called out for their overall decline in standards of performance through the whole year since Rochford took over bar the last two games of summer as they were given excuse after excuse and free passes galore in order to try to land the big one. It had become a national obsession. Not to mention that crazy, chaotic road to the final they traversed in the last two years. The nation is both completely in withdrawals and in mourning for Mayo. Abd lastly you had the World Cup, very successful Irish rugby teams, and a great hurling championship. All factors in the general populice's sense of ennui and apathy. I think it's a pity that Monaghan didn't get through as that at least would have provided the fairytale, a huge buzz and thrill around their supporters, and probably a high-scoring and attacking final. Despite a gap of 10 years Tyrone seem like a world-weary and not enthralled County to be in the Final, even allowing for the big letdown of last year's semifinal. They should at least be revelling in the role of such big underdogs, a place that MH always loves to be. I foresee a cracking contest and wouldn't rule out a draw. If Dublin are in any way flat(and they haven't had to go near the well barely once all summer) or soft/sated then Tyrone have a right chance here. Personally speaking I've not enjoyed a buildup to a final more, the lack of hoopla and external nonsense and national sense of mission and entitlement surrounding Mayo had long ago become suffocating and insufferable. Hopefully tomorrow is nearly all about football and a celebration for both counties and the whole country on All Ireland final day.
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Post by Mickmack on Sept 1, 2018 8:53:28 GMT
Mayo was the greatest story in Irish sport for the past 5 years in my opinion.
History will be kind to them.
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Post by Annascaultilidie on Sept 1, 2018 9:37:29 GMT
2011: Kerry beat Mayo very comfortably and go on to be pipped in the final by a Dublin team that would go on to threaten the Golden Years side for the accolade of most successful of all time.
2012: Kerry lose to the eventual champions Donegal, who beat Mayo in the final. Mayo beat Dublin.
2013: Kerry lose a classic semi final to Dublin who go onto beat Mayo in the final.
2014: Kerry beat Mayo in another classic semi final and go on to snuffle out Donegal in a drab but fondly recalled final.
2015: Kerry lose a very poor final to an excellent Dublin side. Mayo beaten in a classic semi final.
2016: Kerry lose the semi final to eventual champions Dublin.
2017: For only the third time this millenium (!), Kerry lose to a team that doesn't go onto annex the Sam Maguire. Kerry's stranglehold over Mayo, held since 1996, ends.
2018: Both Kerry and Mayo exit the championship early.
Kerry 2011-2018
8 Quarter Finals 6 Semi Finals 3 Finals 1 Sam 4 Classics?
Mayo 2011-2018 7 Quarter Finals 7 Semi Finals 4 Finals 0 Sams 7 Classics?
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Post by Mickmack on Sept 1, 2018 9:48:33 GMT
Even when Mayo are bad like in 2018 they were still compulsive viewing. The games v Galway and Kildare certainly were. So was the Tipp game i believe but i didnt see any of that.
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Post by kerrybhoy06 on Sept 1, 2018 10:11:31 GMT
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Post by Mickmack on Sept 1, 2018 11:31:59 GMT
If twas a Dublin v Mayo final tomorrow the country would be agog with excitement
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Post by Mickmack on Sept 1, 2018 12:00:22 GMT
Jim Gavin and Dublin have destiny in their reach Tyrone are developing but defending champions should have too much for challengers about 7 hours ago Seán Moran
All-Ireland SFC final – Dublin v Tyrone, Croke Park, 3.30
The sense of ennui around the place over the past week or two is unmistakable. Maybe it’s been accentuated by the vitality of the hurling season which, even when its finale threatened to disappoint, pumped enough voltage through its injury-time climax to blow up the national grid.
It’s strange because Dublin are on the verge of a landmark achievement. Even in the pioneering days of the 1890s and 1900s (when the capital accumulated 11 All-Irelands) the county never managed to run off four successive titles and in well over a century since, only two counties – Wexford and Kerry, twice, have managed to do so.
Yet it’s not strange. Landmark achievements aren’t that interesting beyond the county recording them and historians of the game. It also affects the mood. No matter how outstanding a team making history is, serial and uninterrupted success always implies a decline in competition.
A quick glance back at the coverage in this newspaper on the day before Kerry completed the most recent four-in-a-row, 37 years ago, and the atmosphere before the final against Offaly has a familiar feel.
One piece by former Cavan player Séamus Conaty under the headline, ‘Rules affecting standards,’ began: “For many people the standard of Gaelic football in recent years has been very depressing.”
Another by well-known author and political columnist John Healy noted archly: “You have to admire Kerry lads for giving the Sam Maguire Cup its yearly outing to Dublin and Croke Park to let the opposition have a look at it.”
Finally, reporter Niall Kiely wrote a fatalistic piece, headlined, ‘Always the fear of a massacre against Kerry’.
In the end the match didn’t even sell out and the joy in Kerry at putting their stamp on the record books again was tempered by the determinedly underwhelmed reaction elsewhere.
This weekend Tyrone arrive in the role of spoilers. Their prospects aren’t greatly rated by the conventional arbiters of punditry and bookmakers but within the county there is, if not quite confidence, a feisty disregard for reputation.
Reasons: manager Mickey Harte has yet to lose a final and there is also a thrilling inkling – not entirely plausible in this view – that Dublin will have some percentage points of complacency to render them vulnerable as well as the undeniable fact that the champions have never given a totally dominant display in a final.
Titanic contest You could add to this that the trimming in last year’s semi-final has created a cause for Tyrone and also fortified them with some cautionary experience whereas July’s quarter-final in Omagh blended this with some equally useful encouragement, as they refused to buckle in the face of Dublin’s six-point lead on the hour, instead squeezing the visitors into a very uncomfortable last 10 minutes.
The psychology of last year will be interesting. One view from the dressing-room is that Harte had tuned the players into genuinely believing they were going to win and the outside consensus – in vivid contrast to this weekend – was that it would be a titanic contest.
When that kind of conviction gets punctured, teams find it hard to cope.
Then again, they were up against arguably the best 20 minutes of Gavin’s entire management. Con O’Callaghan’s early goal was the signature flourish but Mayo recovered from a similar setback in the final and it was the barrage of points that followed which sank Tyrone.
Harte’s team have a great counter-attacking game and if they build a lead it will put pressure on Dublin.
The champions however have been very composed. Their style of possession football leads to enhanced accuracy but fewer attempts at scores, trends visible in the relatively small number of chances missed.
Despite this at times excessive deliberation, Dublin have scored more goals this championship than in either of the past two.
Cian O’Sullivan looks set to start despite the hamstring concern but Tyrone will presumably try and put that to the test from the start and force Dublin’s defensive orchestrator into marking opponents rather than simply space.
Gavin’s match-ups have always been good and Peter Harte and Niall Sludden, who between them created the goal that broke Monaghan, were well marked in Omagh by John Small and Eoin Murchan, which may be enough to earn the latter a reprieve after a difficult semi-final on Ian Burke.
The problem for any team playing Dublin is their range of assets. They are overall physically bigger or at least more mature than their opponents and have the game’s pre-eminent centrefielder in Brian Fenton given that Colm Cavanagh plays as an auxiliary defender although were they to line up on each other it would be a fascinating duel.
Effective outing After an effective outing on Conor McManus, Pádraig Hampsey is believed likely to take up Ciarán Kilkenny with presumably the Lee Keegan brief from last year’s final – ie to stop him running the game. What tends to be forgotten about that is it’s easier said than done and in any event, Dublin still found a way to win.
Tyrone’s free-taking is erratic whereas Dean Rock, although not on a flawless run having missed three in the past two matches, is capable of handling the burden on a big day, as he showed in last year’s final.
Ultimately this comes down to maximising performance. Tyrone need more sustained performances from key players, such as Harte, Matthew Donnelly and Frank Burns and whereas both Paul Mannion and O’Callaghan laboured in Omagh, Dublin are less likely to be about containment this weekend.
Better players win All-Irelands and although Tyrone are still developing the champions won’t be waiting around.
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Post by Mickmack on Sept 1, 2018 12:01:09 GMT
Sean Moran is right about the ennui in 1981.
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Post by kerrybhoy06 on Sept 1, 2018 12:38:15 GMT
If twas a Dublin v Mayo final tomorrow the country would be agog with excitement I agree with you that it would but that only proves the point of our obsession with the plucky loser.
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Post by Mickmack on Sept 1, 2018 12:46:48 GMT
If twas a Dublin v Mayo final tomorrow the country would be agog with excitement I agree with you that it would but that only proves the point of our obsession with the plucky loser. I have no obsession about plucky losers. I admire a bunch giving of themselves to the maximum in pursuit of something. If they had got that tap over free to win the 2016 drawn game it would not have changed my view of them one way or the other.
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Post by kerrybhoy06 on Sept 1, 2018 18:01:10 GMT
I agree with you that it would but that only proves the point of our obsession with the plucky loser. I have no obsession about plucky losers. I admire a bunch giving of themselves to the maximum in pursuit of something. If they had got that tap over free to win the 2016 drawn game it would not have changed my view of them one way or the other. I wasn’t specifically referring to you Mick
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kerryexile
Fanatical Member
Whether you believe that you can, or that you can't, you are right anyway.
Posts: 1,126
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Post by kerryexile on Sept 1, 2018 18:13:14 GMT
I cannot remember such a foregone conclusion in a final and I agree with the consensus.
Then why will I like a sizable percentage of the population of counties not involved still sit down and watch it. There is always the possibility that the unexpected will happen.
Hypothetically, there are reasons why the unexpected might happen. Dublin do not use any game plan when they are taking on teams they think they can beat - they give nothing to the video analysts. I don't think they revealed one plan this year. Oddly enough this can be revealing too. Game plans by their very nature use the collective to deal with weaknesses. In their absence you see the raw unprotected player. A shrewd observer like Mickie Harte will have seen plenty physical and mental vulnerabilities. For example mentally there were subtle hints that they are starting to believe the hype - like O'Callaghan trying for goals that are not on and physically they struggle under high balls into the goalmouth.
They still tackle by throwing in the body, sometimes recklessly. Before last year's final I said that if Mayo were prepared for this they could get a player sent off. It happened but they spoiled it. The forward is usually trying to get away so it looks like a mistimed shoulder from behind. I expect a Tyrone forward to turn chest into such an approach from Cooper or McMahon and the referee will be left with no choice. MDM could be exposed too.
Meanwhile back on planet earth .........
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Post by Annascaultilidie on Sept 1, 2018 18:22:27 GMT
Jim Gavin is incredible but Dublin are due a flat performance and/or a systems failure.
I doubt it will occur tomorrow though.
If Tyrone come out and have a right go I will be cheering for them.
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Post by royalkerryfan on Sept 1, 2018 21:23:45 GMT
There's no Love for Tyrone, Simple really. I dislike them more than Dublin or anyone else and many nuturals don't have much time for them either.
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fivenarow
Senior Member
If it aint broken, then dont fix it!
Posts: 924
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Post by fivenarow on Sept 1, 2018 22:09:49 GMT
There's no Love for Tyrone, Simple really. I dislike them more than Dublin or anyone else and many nuturals don't have much time for them either. Having gone to many games for a long time & come across lots of fans from different counties I’d have put Tyrone as top of my most unliked list followed by Mayo. The dubs know how to act when they win or lose but I can’t say the same for the latter two. I’d rather if Dublin didn’t have the chance to outdo our golden years team, who I still think were pound for pound better, but I’d nearly rather it than Tyrone winning tomorrow. Don’t get me wrong, we have some prize a****les as supporters too but Tyrone & Mayo just do my head in.
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Post by Ballyfireside on Sept 1, 2018 22:40:28 GMT
Jim Gavin is incredible but Dublin are due a flat performance and/or a systems failure. I doubt it will occur tomorrow though. If Tyrone come out and have a right go I will be cheering for them. Did n't ya know a chárá Támaísín that a good team insulates a mánágér!
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Post by Ard Mhacha on Sept 1, 2018 23:29:30 GMT
Jaysus, you boys live at the other end of the country. I can see Tyrone from my house, have Tyrone in-laws, and yet you dislike Tyrone more than I do
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Post by Mickmack on Sept 1, 2018 23:43:52 GMT
This Tyrone team are alter boys compared to the lads with 3 All Ireland medals. Ricey, Gormley, Mugsy, the McDonnells etc had a nasty streak in them.
Of the two teams taking the field tomorrow, Dublin appear to have more in the nasty category mainly at the back, Jack McCaffrey and Cian OSullivan excepted.
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