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Post by kerrygold on Mar 13, 2018 23:39:19 GMT
It is a real come back and bite comment all right. Although I'd take Kerry right now being in September's final and take my chances! Worse again, it could be the 2019 final. *, I wont sleep a wink tonight
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Post by kerrygold on Mar 13, 2018 23:40:05 GMT
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Post by Kingdomson on Mar 13, 2018 23:42:05 GMT
I was thinking the same when i heard that. [/quote ]It is a real come back and bite comment all right. Although I'd take Kerry right now being in September's final and take my chances!SNAP!
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Mar 13, 2018 23:50:45 GMT
I don't think the door is shut yet but it does feel that Gavin is looking to make a point and the rest is down to Connolly.
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Post by thebluepanther on Mar 13, 2018 23:59:26 GMT
Its your choice if you want to ignore my question to you about whether you agree that the financial doping of Dublin should stop now that it has done its job. Evading the question is fine. The big thing Dublin got was Games promotion officers. I would love to see a lot more of these in other counties and funded by the GAA. If Dublin were to lose out in certain areas of funding to accommodate this fine.
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Post by jackiel on Mar 14, 2018 0:29:17 GMT
Meath and indeed all of Leinster have massively increased the number of GPO's but the payoff will only be seen in 8-10 years. My club have one , funded 60/40 by club and Leinster Council. It's a fair outlay for smaller clubs and even bigger clubs like ours struggle to find the finances.
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Post by dc84 on Mar 14, 2018 8:19:11 GMT
Its your choice if you want to ignore my question to you about whether you agree that the financial doping of Dublin should stop now that it has done its job. Evading the question is fine. The big thing Dublin got was Games promotion officers. I would love to see a lot more of these in other counties and funded by the GAA. If Dublin were to lose out in certain areas of funding to accommodate this fine. Very fair post this is the crux of it every gaa club i know in dublin has one. Ot makes a huge difference i was involved at underage in one dublin club and the insights and support i got off the development officer as a new coach was invaluable
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Post by thebluepanther on Mar 14, 2018 8:27:28 GMT
Meath and indeed all of Leinster have massively increased the number of GPO's but the payoff will only be seen in 8-10 years. My club have one , funded 60/40 by club and Leinster Council. It's a fair outlay for smaller clubs and even bigger clubs like ours struggle to find the finances. Wouldn't dispute this. Dublin stole a march on a lot of people. Dublin came up with a viable proposal many years back to make Dublin Gaa stronger , It required a lot of hard work a lot of people had to buy into it and they needed money. It was all based on underage structures , good coaching of kids. Their is no Doubt Costello and few others knew how important Dublin were and left no avenue unturned in getting the maximum funds available. Bear in mind any county could avail of financial support for GPOs once they had a viable proposal. Amazingly I'm not aware of many that came forward with one. The Gaa liked the idea of a strong Dublin in Gaa , competively and financially. Kerry were the flag bearers representing Munster and Ulster looked strong with Tyrone and Armagh. A competing Dublin could only help. Meath to name just one. stood still and assumed the norm would continue of a few All Ireland appearances every decade or so after getting spoiled by Boylan. Kildare hopefully are improving , but they too have slipped back. . Dublin have got money and used it well. That's no consolation of course to smaller counties. But while it appears we have a conveyor belt of talent on tap. It should be noted the huge return we got from the 2011 minor team that lost in Tipperary in All Ireland Final. Had Gavin not been appointed would we be winning as much, I don't know. We easily could be talking about narrow losses to Kerry and Mayo in recent years. There is no doubt the Leinster championship at the moment is becoming obsolete. But so is Munster. Ulster and Connaught Provincials in football stir interest. Munster and Leinster are irrelevant.
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Post by dc84 on Mar 14, 2018 8:52:10 GMT
Would have to disagree on that point i think clare and especially tipp have to be commended on the work they are doing while they may be a bit off kerry imo id fancy them to beat all leinster teams bar dublin and 6 of the ulster counties they like roscommon and monaghan are an inspriation
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Post by kerrygold on Mar 14, 2018 9:18:21 GMT
Would have to disagree on that point i think clare and especially tipp have to be commended on the work they are doing while they may be a bit off kerry imo id fancy them to beat all leinster teams bar dublin and 6 of the ulster counties they like roscommon and monaghan are an inspriation Hopefully Tipp make it in to Div 1 for next years NFL.
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Post by Mickmack on Mar 14, 2018 9:27:21 GMT
Wheels turn, clocks tick and time moves on. Our time will come again. Very unlikely to be this year but that day will come. Great teams and golden eras always come to an end. Like empires of old they usually end with crushing defeat. It's about being ready for that day and being utterly ruthless when it happens. With respect annancaul, ....the point of the discussion is above.... whether great empires always come to an end.....there seems to be a view that this phase of dublin dominence will pass like Tyrones did for example. This simply wont happen in my view for the reasons of population and money as so elegently put by onlykerry and others. No one has come up with any logical back up to the theory that dublin will fall away like Tyrone did. It was always Dublins world but for 100 years they didnt get their act together. The reward for this mismanagement was that the GAA funded them to do so. It is now just a case of finding two top players every year and that should not be a problem. Meanwhile the GAA continue to fund the unfolding gap between them and all others. In my view Kerry folk need to wake up to this new reality.
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Post by kerrygold on Mar 14, 2018 13:08:48 GMT
In may opinion Dublin are here to stay for many years to come and have the depth and youth to keep them there, with Galway coming behind them. But I don't think because Dublin are been funded well is the issue, I think other county's are spending too much time looking at what Dublin are doing on and off the field its stalled there own progress. Kerry must focus on there own game and values, make the transition of youth and will eventually close the gap on Dublin.On Emmet o Shea if he is that good a player he will be noticed! I'd say you have to focus on what Dublin are doing to find a way of breaking them down in game time?
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Post by yourholiness on Mar 14, 2018 20:16:34 GMT
There are 39,000 registered players in Dublin. This is not insurmountable .
The monies invested in Dublin were largely funded by the sports Council. These monies were invested in GoGames and at primary level. The Games promotional officers went into primary schools to promote the games . The value for money in this initiative is up for debate . As someone who has had a role in employing GPO’s and also worked in the primary sector I can say ithe dividends of this investment are vastly overstated and fairly intangible.
Crucially the youngest of the Dublin panel wouldn’t have benefitted directly from this investment at all as they had in almost every instance graduated beyond this stage of the games by the time of its implementation .
The fact is that this team is not financially doped . It’s inaccurate to portray it as such and it undermines the hard work, stunning talent and great management they are the proponents of .
. It also undermines the real issue that is likely to develop.
I absolute agree a storm is on the horoizon and that the GAA has an absolute obligation to invest the same amount in coaching throughout the country as is invested in Dublin .
I darseay you’d look long and hard to find a Dub that does not believe so.
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kerryexile
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Whether you believe that you can, or that you can't, you are right anyway.
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Post by kerryexile on Mar 14, 2018 22:03:19 GMT
It was very clear in last years AIF that Connolly was showing defiance by wearing a jersey with cut off sleeves and equally clear that Gavin was fuming. Gavin didn't allow it affect his decisions and did introduce him when needed but Gavin was always going to have his pound of flesh. I was surprised with the interview that James McCarthy gave last week, the use of the word "brash" and not distancing himself from the question about "crushing their spirit". He didn't start on Sunday - I wonder was this just coincidence. You can sometimes glean what is going on in training from what players say to the media and Gavin may have thought too much was said.
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Post by jackiel on Mar 14, 2018 22:34:06 GMT
Regarding Connolly at last years AI, he had a normal jersey wrapped up tightly in his hand. He seemed not to want anyone to see the number on the shirt and put it under his seat still tightly scrunched up.He was playing a game is how it seemed to me at the time. Most others conform to Gavin's rules etc, Dermo is a bit of a lad, he likes to push the boundaries, it might come back and bite him but I'm not sure he'll let it get to him.
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keane
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Post by keane on Mar 14, 2018 23:11:19 GMT
For me the clear difference at the moment is the unbelievably slick system the Dublin senior team operate to on the pitch. It's why dime a dozen players like Scully, Lowndes, Reddin etc can drop in and out without missing a beat. It also goes some way to explaining why they dominate the league so much. As McGuinness said whoever has the best system wins, when equal systems meet it comes down to players. A Dublin team in August/September missing a couple of their Rolls Royce players would be beaten by a fully firing Kerry or Mayo - in the league when we are experimenting with systems and personnel, or even just not training particularly hard as in '16, we are liable to ship some beatings as the Dublin system of play is just superb. They are also miles ahead of us and Mayo in terms of point taking, despite our frequent protestations that we have some skill advantage.
Now, resources definitely help with developing systems and probably more importantly getting everyone to buy into them. Dublin have some degree of advantage in this regard with the size and calibre of backroom staff - but I have serious doubts that we are doing the best possible with regard to our own backroom with the resources we have. Someone said to me at the start of last year that we had replaced a PHD in sports science (Cian O'Neill obv) as our trainer with 'Fitzmaurice's buddy who runs a pub in Dingle'. Now I don't know anything about the guy who was in charge of our conditioning last year and I'm sure that's a harsh description, but we lost a semi-final to Mayo looking very much second best physically and our training has since been taking over by people with serious credentials. As well as that we have frequent, well justified lamentations of the behaviour of Liam Hassett on the sideline. It's not the sort of thing you would see from Dublin. I've heard stories of one player asking for advice about who he should mark from the sideline when the opposition made a tactical switch in a knockout match being told '*ing drive into them'. It's low brow stuff.
Why is it when we bring on subs - see Sunday's match for several examples - who are slightly fringe players do we see these guys shelling balls twenty yards wide from stupid positions. This almost never happens when Dublin bring on subs - what's the difference?
We also seem to adopt changes to our tactical approach - sometimes drastic ones e.g. last year's SF replay - based on what has happened in the game directly previous. Obviously seeing tactical deficiencies and remedying them is ok, but we seem to be eternally reactive even to stuff that's obvious in advance. Often times the dogs in the street could predict what will happen in game 1, yet it takes us till game 2 to change our approach - and then in many cases we are tactically set up to play against a system we encountered the week before when the current week's opposition have a totally different set up.
The glaring problems with the set up at the end of Jack's reign were a vulnerability in the closing stages when we had a lead, a non-existent kick out strategy and a huge vulnerability to runners through the middle. I think it's hard to argue any of these have been fixed, and we seem to be flailing around from week to week without any signs of an overall strategy that has the commitment behind it to outlast the first defeat.
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Post by thebluepanther on Mar 14, 2018 23:47:42 GMT
Would have to disagree on that point i think clare and especially tipp have to be commended on the work they are doing while they may be a bit off kerry imo id fancy them to beat all leinster teams bar dublin and 6 of the ulster counties they like roscommon and monaghan are an inspriation Fair point, these counties are putting in huge effort. Carlow in leinster are also trying very hard. Monaghon with a population of 70,000 are seriously punching above their weight and a huge role model in terms of what can be achieved. I'd put Tipp and Kildare on similar pegging. But are Kerry training with one eye on Tipp or Clare . Have they ever. The provincial championships are outdated in my opinion.
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Post by bomberliston on Mar 15, 2018 0:10:23 GMT
The provincial championships are outdated in my opinion. Agree 100% Re: Fears of Dublin dominance continuing into the future (for ever and ever and ever....) Players, mangers and teams come and go. Dublin are now over-performing after decades of grossly under-performing. They should always be in the hunt considering their much debated and discussed advantages, etc... They are the big city team. NY Yankees, Real Madrid, etc.... Up to everyone else to get their house in order and be ready for the Dubs on an off-day (near future) and their decline (seemingly very distant future). They've won five All-Irelands in the last seven years. Combined winning margin? 7 points. An average of 1.4 points. If they lost two of those matches, would we be even having these debates? They've won these games because of pure grit, team spirit and all the other cliches. That's down to people. A unique blend of a manager at the top of his game and players pulling out remarkable personal performances in "clutch" situations. This doesn't last forever.
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Post by bomberliston on Mar 15, 2018 0:13:12 GMT
People can disagree with me and accuse me of being 'hopefully naive' but so be it.
Sporting success isn't always down to formulas and throwing money at things.
Hard work and determination allied with good planning and skill wins.
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Post by thebluepanther on Mar 15, 2018 7:25:35 GMT
People can disagree with me and accuse me of being 'hopefully naive' but so be it. Sporting success isn't always down to formulas and throwing money at things. Hard work and determination allied with good planning and skill wins. Fair post, Possibly a bit of both.
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Post by Mickmack on Mar 15, 2018 14:42:48 GMT
There are 39,000 registered players in Dublin. This is not insurmountable . The monies invested in Dublin were largely funded by the sports Council. These monies were invested in GoGames and at primary level. The Games promotional officers went into primary schools to promote the games . The value for money in this initiative is up for debate . As someone who has had a role in employing GPO’s and also worked in the primary sector I can say ithe dividends of this investment are vastly overstated and fairly intangible. Crucially the youngest of the Dublin panel wouldn’t have benefitted directly from this investment at all as they had in almost every instance graduated beyond this stage of the games by the time of its implementation . The fact is that this team is not financially doped . It’s inaccurate to portray it as such and it undermines the hard work, stunning talent and great management they are the proponents of . . It also undermines the real issue that is likely to develop. I absolute agree a storm is on the horoizon and that the GAA has an absolute obligation to invest the same amount in coaching throughout the country as is invested in Dublin . I darseay you’d look long and hard to find a Dub that does not believe so. what is the real issue that is likely to develop to which you refer
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Post by kerrygold on Mar 15, 2018 15:26:17 GMT
There are 39,000 registered players in Dublin. This is not insurmountable . The monies invested in Dublin were largely funded by the sports Council. These monies were invested in GoGames and at primary level. The Games promotional officers went into primary schools to promote the games . The value for money in this initiative is up for debate . As someone who has had a role in employing GPO’s and also worked in the primary sector I can say ithe dividends of this investment are vastly overstated and fairly intangible. Crucially the youngest of the Dublin panel wouldn’t have benefitted directly from this investment at all as they had in almost every instance graduated beyond this stage of the games by the time of its implementation . The fact is that this team is not financially doped . It’s inaccurate to portray it as such and it undermines the hard work, stunning talent and great management they are the proponents of . . It also undermines the real issue that is likely to develop. I absolute agree a storm is on the horoizon and that the GAA has an absolute obligation to invest the same amount in coaching throughout the country as is invested in Dublin . I darseay you’d look long and hard to find a Dub that does not believe so. How much did it cost to prise Bryan Cullen away from Leinster Rugby and a career in a professional sporting environment with world wide opportunities? 100k plus per year?
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Post by southward on Mar 15, 2018 17:12:21 GMT
Would have to disagree on that point i think clare and especially tipp have to be commended on the work they are doing while they may be a bit off kerry imo id fancy them to beat all leinster teams bar dublin and 6 of the ulster counties they like roscommon and monaghan are an inspriation Fair point, these counties are putting in huge effort. Carlow in leinster are also trying very hard. Monaghon with a population of 70,000 are seriously punching above their weight and a huge role model in terms of what can be achieved. I'd put Tipp and Kildare on similar pegging. But are Kerry training with one eye on Tipp or Clare . Have they ever. The provincial championships are outdated in my opinion. Clare gave us a proper scare in Ennis last year. Ran us a lot closer than Cork did, that's for sure. We won't be taking them for granted. Likewise with Tipp.
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Post by thebluepanther on Mar 15, 2018 19:01:06 GMT
Fair point, these counties are putting in huge effort. Carlow in leinster are also trying very hard. Monaghon with a population of 70,000 are seriously punching above their weight and a huge role model in terms of what can be achieved. I'd put Tipp and Kildare on similar pegging. But are Kerry training with one eye on Tipp or Clare . Have they ever. The provincial championships are outdated in my opinion. Clare gave us a proper scare in Ennis last year. Ran us a lot closer than Cork did, that's for sure. We won't be taking them for granted. Likewise with Tipp. Wouldn't expect you to take them for granted. Same way Dublin will train fully focused on either Meath or Kildare.
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Post by yourholiness on Mar 15, 2018 22:22:33 GMT
There are 39,000 registered players in Dublin. This is not insurmountable . The monies invested in Dublin were largely funded by the sports Council. These monies were invested in GoGames and at primary level. The Games promotional officers went into primary schools to promote the games . The value for money in this initiative is up for debate . As someone who has had a role in employing GPO’s and also worked in the primary sector I can say ithe dividends of this investment are vastly overstated and fairly intangible. Crucially the youngest of the Dublin panel wouldn’t have benefitted directly from this investment at all as they had in almost every instance graduated beyond this stage of the games by the time of its implementation . The fact is that this team is not financially doped . It’s inaccurate to portray it as such and it undermines the hard work, stunning talent and great management they are the proponents of . . It also undermines the real issue that is likely to develop. I absolute agree a storm is on the horoizon and that the GAA has an absolute obligation to invest the same amount in coaching throughout the country as is invested in Dublin . I darseay you’d look long and hard to find a Dub that does not believe so. How much did it cost to prise Bryan Cullen away from Leinster Rugby and a career in a professional sporting environment with world wide opportunities? 100k plus per year? I don’t know but does Joe O Connor not perform precisely the same function for Kerry as head of athletic development?
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Post by yourholiness on Mar 15, 2018 22:24:21 GMT
There are 39,000 registered players in Dublin. This is not insurmountable . The monies invested in Dublin were largely funded by the sports Council. These monies were invested in GoGames and at primary level. The Games promotional officers went into primary schools to promote the games . The value for money in this initiative is up for debate . As someone who has had a role in employing GPO’s and also worked in the primary sector I can say ithe dividends of this investment are vastly overstated and fairly intangible. Crucially the youngest of the Dublin panel wouldn’t have benefitted directly from this investment at all as they had in almost every instance graduated beyond this stage of the games by the time of its implementation . The fact is that this team is not financially doped . It’s inaccurate to portray it as such and it undermines the hard work, stunning talent and great management they are the proponents of . . It also undermines the real issue that is likely to develop. I absolute agree a storm is on the horoizon and that the GAA has an absolute obligation to invest the same amount in coaching throughout the country as is invested in Dublin . I darseay you’d look long and hard to find a Dub that does not believe so. what is the real issue that is likely to develop to which you refer The issue that you believe is fully manifest at the moment. The issue you raise everytime Dublin beat Kerry .
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Post by Mickmack on Mar 15, 2018 22:37:38 GMT
Do you mean the distribution of funding in an equitable manner?
Or are you referring to something else?
I dont know what you are getting at exactly.
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Post by yourholiness on Mar 15, 2018 22:52:10 GMT
Do you mean the distribution of funding in an equitable manner? Or are you referring to something else? I dont know what you are getting at exactly. Yes. I’m in favour of the distribution of monies in an equitable manner . My point is that this team is not the product of financial doping .
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Post by kerrygold on Mar 15, 2018 22:54:20 GMT
How much did it cost to prise Bryan Cullen away from Leinster Rugby and a career in a professional sporting environment with world wide opportunities? 100k plus per year? I don’t know but does Joe O Connor not perform precisely the same function for Kerry as head of athletic development? Joe is not a full time employee of the Kerry County Board.
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Post by kerrygold on Mar 15, 2018 22:55:52 GMT
Do you mean the distribution of funding in an equitable manner? Or are you referring to something else? I dont know what you are getting at exactly. Yes. I’m in favour of the distribution of monies in an equitable manner . My point is that this team is not the product of financial doping . I'd hate to see a financially doped Dublin team so!
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