Premier
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Post by Premier on Feb 27, 2018 23:00:09 GMT
I got slated on here for criticising his ‘passion’ previously- he needs to be reigned in because it just turns officials against you. If you lose the plot over everything then the impact lessens everytime and now he just makes our management team seem like overly aggressive whingers He gets way too involved for my liking, he spends a lot of his time running around like a headless chicken. I wonder what he does contribute? On the sideline you need to be able to read the play and concentrate on moves being made on the pitch, for example Galway's switch of Conroy which won them so much possession. We failed to react to this. We are still far too conservative in our play. It seems to be about stats, possession and not giving the ball away rather than taking a risk and cutting loose. We have class forwards, however, we insist on pissing about with the ball around the middle. It is a wonder that Maurice isn’t on the sideline instead. He was noted as being particularly calm when managing St Mary’s and was never seen to have been overly excitable
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Post by Attacking Wing Back on Feb 27, 2018 23:12:07 GMT
Kerry have been out thought by Dublin and Mayo in recent years. Looks like Galway are doing so now too. Its all hype regarding Galwsy. I can't see them being serious contenders this year We won't be either judging on the last two performances
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kerryexile
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Whether you believe that you can, or that you can't, you are right anyway.
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Post by kerryexile on Feb 27, 2018 23:22:27 GMT
Kerry have been out thought by Dublin and Mayo in recent years. Looks like Galway are doing so now too. Its all hype regarding Galwsy. I can't see them being serious contenders this year I agree. Roscommon beat Kerry a couple of years ago in Killarney and the same things were said.
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Post by haryegsnbaken on Feb 28, 2018 0:00:26 GMT
Its all hype regarding Galwsy. I can't see them being serious contenders this year I agree. Roscommon beat Kerry a couple of years ago in Killarney and the same things were said. Whether they will be contenders or not , you would have to say that Galway are definitely going the right way under Walshe.
Plus if they keep improving, they wont be a kick in the Aras away from top 4 given the right draw come the Super 8.
As regards Top 4 BTW..... With our current malaise, Mayos in and out, and Tyrone no great shakes, there is plenty room for quite a few behind the Dubs.
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Post by Mickmack on Feb 28, 2018 8:29:12 GMT
Kerry have been out thought by Dublin and Mayo in recent years. Looks like Galway are doing so now too. Its all hype regarding Galwsy. I can't see them being serious contenders this year If i could elaborate a bit on the point i made.... Kerry will probably beat Galway in the summer as the sum of parts may be better etc etc. But you can win and still be "out thought" by more astute opposite managers but they might not have enough quality forwards etc. Kerrys forwards will be better than Galways in high summer for eample. But its when the dubs and Mayo of 2017 appear on the horison that kerrys lack of nous will be exposed. When KK had their great team, all Cody had to do was keep them hungry. They had more good players to win no matter what an opposition manager came up with. But did ye see KK at the weekend....Cody now embracing tactics to make up for shortcomings in his squad.
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Post by buck02 on Feb 28, 2018 9:50:18 GMT
If Galway get over Mayo in the first round and win Connaught, they will be in the same Super 8s group as Kerry (assuming Kerry win Munster).
Remember there is a home game, away game and neutral game. We still have not been told how this will be determined.
So Kerry could end up playing Galway in Salthill on a wet and windy day during the summer in the Super 8's. The way Galway play, you would have to be a bit worried at the prospect of that.
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Post by kerrygold on Feb 28, 2018 11:28:55 GMT
If Galway get over Mayo in the first round and win Connaught, they will be in the same Super 8s group as Kerry (assuming Kerry win Munster). Remember there is a home game, away game and neutral game. We still have not been told how this will be determined. So Kerry could end up playing Galway in Salthill on a wet and windy day during the summer in the Super 8's. The way Galway play, you would have to be a bit worried at the prospect of that. More so if Kerry needed the result to progress. This is what will make the Super 8s brilliant.This is the place the Galways out there need to aspire to.
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Post by dc84 on Feb 28, 2018 12:30:07 GMT
If Galway get over Mayo in the first round and win Connaught, they will be in the same Super 8s group as Kerry (assuming Kerry win Munster). Remember there is a home game, away game and neutral game. We still have not been told how this will be determined. So Kerry could end up playing Galway in Salthill on a wet and windy day during the summer in the Super 8's. The way Galway play, you would have to be a bit worried at the prospect of that. More so if Kerry needed the result to progress. This is what will make the Super 8s brilliant.This is the place the Galways out there need to aspire to. The winners of the provincals will play each other in the croke park game, this has been decided.think about it would they want the dubs v kerry/mayo anywhere but in a full croker?
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Post by ataboy on Mar 3, 2018 9:58:25 GMT
Couple of things..
1. Can someone tell me how does Shane Enright play so much ball in key areas of the pitch? Surely management would instruct him to get out of there.
2. Any idea what the 2 Galway blacks were for?
3. Has anyone an explanation for what Hassett was at over the line ball?
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Post by taggert on Mar 3, 2018 11:57:49 GMT
I suspect in the case of Enright that the opposition want him on the ball as his passing is sub optimal - he is uncomfortable in possession and unless playing a low risk, safe pass is highly likely to either cough up or give away possession. Unlike Paul Murphy, he wont hurt an opposition defence. This is a development from soccer where players who can hurt you are engaged quickly, whereas centre halves with 2 left feet are not - as they will give possession away anyway. In other words, saving one's energy to deal with someone who will hurt you. Again, this was very evident against Galway - one element amongst many, demonstrating the paucity of our options to counteract Galways defensive structure.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Mar 3, 2018 12:02:02 GMT
I suspect in the case of Enright that the opposition want him on the ball as his passing is sub optimal - he is uncomfortable in possession and unless playing a low risk, safe pass is highly likely to either cough up or give away possession. Unlike Paul Murphy, he wont hurt an opposition defence. This is a development from soccer where players who can hurt you are engaged quickly, whereas centre halves with 2 left feet are not - as they will give possession away anyway. In other words, saving one's energy to deal with someone who will hurt you. Again, this was very evident against Galway - one element amongst many, demonstrating the paucity of our options to counteract Galways defensive structure. And even worse, we are wide open to the counter attack as he is miles from where he should be.
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Post by Annascaultilidie on Mar 3, 2018 13:19:37 GMT
I suspect in the case of Enright that the opposition want him on the ball as his passing is sub optimal - he is uncomfortable in possession and unless playing a low risk, safe pass is highly likely to either cough up or give away possession. Unlike Paul Murphy, he wont hurt an opposition defence. This is a development from soccer where players who can hurt you are engaged quickly, whereas centre halves with 2 left feet are not - as they will give possession away anyway. In other words, saving one's energy to deal with someone who will hurt you. Again, this was very evident against Galway - one element amongst many, demonstrating the paucity of our options to counteract Galways defensive structure. A similar thing is done where a corner back who is not good on the ball is left free for a short kick out and then swamped ASAP in an effort to force a very dangerous turnover.
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Post by taggert on Mar 3, 2018 14:33:46 GMT
Yes, I agree with above. The thing that the Galway game highlighted for me was how systematic the Galway setup was and how off the cuff Kerry's was. Dont get me wrong, players need to have some freedom to think on their feet but having a system doesnt mean they cant. We did look utterly clueless at times. The Galway style is how they have played all year so should not have come as any surprise. I also think it is harder to introduce young players into a "system-less" team than it is for a team like Mayo, Galway or Dublin. You become a cog in a wheel rather than feeling you have to be the wheel itself!
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Post by Mickmack on Mar 3, 2018 14:41:53 GMT
Yes, I agree with above. The thing that the Galway game highlighted for me was how systematic the Galway setup was and how off the cuff Kerry's was. Dont get me wrong, players need to have some freedom to think on their feet but having a system doesnt mean they cant. We did look utterly clueless at times. The Galway style is how they have played all year so should not have come as any surprise. I also think it is harder to introduce young players into a "system-less" team than it is for a team like Mayo, Galway or Dublin. You become a cog in a wheel rather than feeling you have to be the wheel itself! well said.
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keane
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Post by keane on Mar 3, 2018 23:01:31 GMT
Goodness gracious the overblowing of Galway is mind-boggling.
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Post by colinsworth1 on Mar 4, 2018 0:33:30 GMT
Goodness gracious the overblowing of Galway is mind-boggling. Over rating Galway ? The kerry. Management underrated them completely that s why we had so many mismatches eg Beglai on Brannigan and we obviously had not studied the video of their new adopted defensive set up because we underestimated them clearly Watch the betting for the AI final Galway will end up short odds probably top five or top three
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Post by kerrybhoy06 on Mar 4, 2018 7:40:58 GMT
Goodness gracious the overblowing of Galway is mind-boggling. Over rating Galway ? The kerry. Management underrated them completely that s why we had so many mismatches eg Beglai on Brannigan and we obviously had not studied the video of their new adopted defensive set up because we underestimated them clearly Watch the betting for the AI final Galway will end up short odds probably top five or top three Dublin would/will beat Galway by double figures and I'd be very confident that us and Mayo would take them relatively comfortably in Croker come August
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Post by taggert on Mar 4, 2018 9:09:04 GMT
kerrybhoy06, my point is more about Kerry and less about Galway. I think that Galway are an excellent example of a team that are MORE than the sum of their individual parts because they have a very effective system. Conversely, Kerry are an example of a team that are LESS than the sum of their individual parts owing to the absence of a distinct system. Player-for-player, I believe Kerry are considerably better than Galway. But this is a team sport and Galway have all their players working together like cogs in a wheel. We clearly dont and that is both the choice and responsibility of EF. I think Dublin would comfortably beat both right now.
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Post by kerrybhoy06 on Mar 4, 2018 9:23:12 GMT
kerrybhoy06, my point is more about Kerry and less about Galway. I think that Galway are an excellent example of a team that are MORE than the sum of their individual parts because they have a very effective system. Conversely, Kerry are an example of a team that are LESS than the sum of their individual parts owing to the absence of a distinct system. Player-for-player, I believe Kerry are considerably better than Galway. But this is a team sport and Galway have all their players working together like cogs in a wheel. We clearly dont and that is both the choice and responsibility of EF. I think Dublin would comfortably beat both right now. I'm not sure that we are less than the sum of our parts to be honest- I think we are severely lacking in certain positions and these hinder us. I think the fact that we are competing at the business end is more to do with the general drop off in standard than anything else because player by player I think we are nowhere near the team of the 00s
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Post by kerrygold on Mar 4, 2018 9:40:20 GMT
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Post by taggert on Mar 4, 2018 9:40:45 GMT
No doubt we have inferior players now to that great era, but all the more reason to implement a system to get the best out of our players and to limit our exposure in those areas we are weak.
A team with the very best players in the country - Dublin - have a very definite defensive and offensive system. Not alone that, they also understand and prepare for other systems they face - Tyrone.
We ought to be doing the same. Tgst is my point here.
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Post by kerrygold on Mar 4, 2018 9:52:07 GMT
Systems probably are not a realistic expectation when blooding 10-12 new players into a team. However taking into account some of the tactical debacles since 2014 dipping into the parable about Doubting Thomas for some comfort is to be excused. We probably need to put up for a while and wait and see. Tomas's piece above is well on the money.
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Post by kerrybhoy06 on Mar 4, 2018 10:10:57 GMT
No doubt we have inferior players now to that great era, but all the more reason to implement a system to get the best out of our players and to limit our exposure in those areas we are weak. A team with the very best players in the country - Dublin - have a very definite defensive and offensive system. Not alone that, they also understand and prepare for other systems they face - Tyrone. We ought to be doing the same. Tgst is my point here. I agree with you on the need for an improvement in our tactical approach and tactical flexibility within a match but I cant agree on saying that we are a team that adds up to less than our parts - I think numerous Munsters, an AI in 2014 and a league title last year is probably an over achievement for this group of players.
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Post by taggert on Mar 4, 2018 10:35:53 GMT
kerrybhoy06, if a team overachieved, does that not mean it is possible to obtain more than the sum of their parts? I mean, we all know Dublin have the best players and squad in the country and going toe-to-toe with them would ultimately see us losing. However, with a well-honed system that would allow us minimise any weaknesses we have and capitalise on any weakness they have to give us a better chance of winning. kerrygold, in an earlier post I did point out that it is far easier to blood young players into a team if there is a clear system of playing - the "clarity" T Se spoke to. I therefore agree that it is problematic introducing new players and a new system. But a cop out if we hear this as an excuse for the next year.... It would be interesting to hear from anyone who has played in the Kerry full back line the last 3 years about a system that limits their exposure - i.e. having a Cian O'Sullivan on hand to help out. I'm sure they'd be amenable to same....
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Post by kerrybhoy06 on Mar 4, 2018 11:31:21 GMT
kerrybhoy06, if a team overachieved, does that not mean it is possible to obtain more than the sum of their parts? I mean, we all know Dublin have the best players and squad in the country and going toe-to-toe with them would ultimately see us losing. However, with a well-honed system that would allow us minimise any weaknesses we have and capitalise on any weakness they have to give us a better chance of winning. kerrygold, in an earlier post I did point out that it is far easier to blood young players into a team if there is a clear system of playing - the "clarity" T Se spoke to. I therefore agree that it is problematic introducing new players and a new system. But a cop out if we hear this as an excuse for the next year.... It would be interesting to hear from anyone who has played in the Kerry full back line the last 3 years about a system that limits their exposure - i.e. having a Cian O'Sullivan on hand to help out. I'm sure they'd be amenable to same.... I do agree with you on the need for tactical changes, as I said. However I just don’t agree that we are performing below ourselves- I really don’t think we are very good at the moment (in relative terms). With the current squad my assessment would be: If we make a semi final- it’s about par A final- better than anticipated Win the AI- overachieving
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Post by taggert on Mar 4, 2018 12:48:18 GMT
Im not entirely disagreeing but I would say we have a "better" chance of overachieving, if you want to call it that, if we have a clearly defined defensive and offensive system. I'll leave it at that....
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dano
Senior Member
Posts: 530
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Post by dano on Mar 4, 2018 15:05:33 GMT
"that's how things work in Kerry. One good day can transform the county mindset. Why? Because we always believe that, given momentum,anything becomes possible for a Kerry team." From Gooch, The Autobiography.
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Post by Mickmack on Mar 4, 2018 20:04:05 GMT
Systems probably are not a realistic expectation when blooding 10-12 new players into a team. However taking into account some of the tactical debacles since 2014 dipping into the parable about Doubting Thomas for some comfort is to be excused. We probably need to put up for a while and wait and see. Tomas's piece above is well on the money. I hope Tomas believes what he is writing there (that no defensive system is some sort of grand master plan for playing Dublin) and not just a show of support for his old comrade in arms. I believe though, in fairness, that Tomas is a straight shooter.
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Post by kerrygold on Mar 4, 2018 20:51:35 GMT
Systems probably are not a realistic expectation when blooding 10-12 new players into a team. However taking into account some of the tactical debacles since 2014 dipping into the parable about Doubting Thomas for some comfort is to be excused. We probably need to put up for a while and wait and see. Tomas's piece above is well on the money. I hope Tomas believes what he is writing there (that no defensive system is some sort of grand master plan for playing Dublin) and not just a show of support for his old comrade in arms. I believe though, in fairness, that Tomas is a straight shooter. Dublin ripped that defensive system to shreds in a matter of minutes v Tyrone last summer.
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Post by Mickmack on Mar 4, 2018 21:46:34 GMT
I dont entirely agree to be honest. Cons goal set the scene and it came from something that never happens to Tyrone...having the ball ripped from a Tyrone player coming out of defense. Dublin caught fire. Tyrone couldnt react. Like Kerry v Meath in 2001. Like nemo v Crokes this year.
That dublin performance may well be the high water mark for this team...certainly they were well below that v Mayo.
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