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Post by Mickmack on Nov 12, 2016 12:14:48 GMT
He believes the GPA should be doing more to persuade Gaelic games’ best players to remain in the country. “Look at the top 50 or 60 players coming up, give them scholarships and ensure they want for nothing when it comes to third level education. If they came together with the GAA and county boards on that, it could be a real force against what’s happening at the moment.”
“The GPA have given scholarships to every Tom, Dick and Harry but maybe it’s time they concentrated on giving it to the best to help keep them in this country.
A bit of clarity on what levels of funding the GPA puts through their hands and the criteria for how its awarded wouldnt go amiss.
Not sure that scholorships alone will turn the heads of young men away from the snake oil salesman selling the lifestyle in Oz even if, for most, it is likely to be a mirage.
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Post by kerrygold on Nov 13, 2016 21:05:25 GMT
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Post by Annascaultilidie on Nov 14, 2016 12:05:59 GMT
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Post by inforthebreaks on Nov 14, 2016 13:02:40 GMT
Interesting that he says the AFL did offer money to clubs as compensation for their time and effort developing players but that the gaa turned it down. I dont see how, if Geelong or swans or whoever wanted to make a donation to Dingle GAA club how the gaa can say its against the rules.
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Post by yourholiness on Nov 14, 2016 13:10:56 GMT
He said in that article Killian's comments were tongue in cheek ! Am I missing something ? It certainly didn't seem as though he was taking the proverbial .
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kerryexile
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Post by kerryexile on Nov 14, 2016 13:51:39 GMT
He said in that article Killian's comments were tongue in cheek ! Am I missing something ? It certainly didn't seem as though he was taking the proverbial . I believe Killian is on Terrace Talk with Weeshie this evening and from what I have been told it is far from tongue in cheek.
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Post by kerrygold on Nov 14, 2016 14:26:16 GMT
This is typical of Kennelly talking out of several sides of his mouth at the same time. Only read this skin curling article once over the weekend online and if I can remember he used the words "Killian was laughing". As for the Australian dollars as payment for these young players, well, he can shove those up his arse. Money won't compensate Kerry for the loss of this footballing intellectual property, for the want of better term, for the loss of these young players football acumen to Kerry football. O'Connor and Clifford if he goes, in particular.
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Post by yellowbelly on Nov 14, 2016 18:19:40 GMT
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kerryexile
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Post by kerryexile on Nov 15, 2016 10:16:33 GMT
Some of us may be disappointed that some of the minors may be lured away but we should not forget that even though they are making the decision they may also struggle with it.
Former Toffee McLaughlin sweet on life with high-flying O'Mahony's
Sometimes, no matter where you go, the lure of home is too much.
Just ask former Everton trainee Ben McLaughlin. Three years at the glamour of a Premier league club were, as he puts it, "unbelievable". But he could never quite escape the notion he was missing out. The feeling that there might be something even better at home.
So when his Sean O'Mahony's club went on their run in the intermediate championship in 2014 that saw them win Louth and Leinster honours, McLaughlin found himself on the plane home from Merseyside for all but one of their games. The pull remained strong.
His three-year contract with the Toffees expired last year. And as he looked to recover from a serious groin injury, O'Mahony's was his first port of call as he looked to regain fitness. He signed with League of Ireland outfit Derry City soon afterwards but training with the club had sown a seed.
His contract at the Brandywell meant playing GAA was out of the question. Still, he managed a few under-the-radar cameos as the club went all the way to the county final. However, his cover was blown when he played in the decider, a game that was shown on TG4. As luck would have it, the station had shown the Derry football decider directly beforehand.
"This is my first proper season back," McLaughlin (right) explained, after helping his side stun Kildare champions Sarsfields on Sunday. "I came back last year and I was playing in the senior championship last year but I was only coming on for 10 or 15 minutes here and there because I was still playing with Derry. It's funny, I'd say I got fined three or four times for coming down playing with the lads! So it's great to be back this year and have nothing on your shoulders. I can just go and play freely.
"It was funny, on the day we played Pat's last year, that's how I got caught. I think the Derry championship was on before on the telly and we were on after it. And the lads were saying: 'there's Ben on the telly'. And I got the phone call the next day."
McLaughlin, grandson of the legendary League of Ireland manager Jim McLaughlin, can't remember how much he was fined or even if Derry went through with it in the end. But the story demonstrates the hold O'Mahony's have on him. There's nothing he'd change about his three years with Everton. But equally, there's nowhere else he'd rather be.
"I was over there for three years. It was unbelievable, you're a 17-year-old living this professional life with all these big players around you and you just want to be like them.
"In the back of my mind when the boys were back here playing I just wanted to be back home. I was always getting flights home if I could to watch the lads. When they got the run in the intermediate I didn't miss a game until the Leinster final. I was there for the rest of them. But being over there was top class.
"I didn't play a game (of Gaelic football for three years). And that was sickening for me because my actual sport is Gaelic, that's where my heart is. It was hard being away but obviously it is the opportunity of a lifetime being over there. I gave it everything, for three years I gave it my heart and soul. But I'm happy now and enjoying my Gaelic."
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Joxer
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Post by Joxer on Nov 15, 2016 12:37:51 GMT
Interesting that he says the AFL did offer money to clubs as compensation for their time and effort developing players but that the gaa turned it down. I dont see how, if Geelong or swans or whoever wanted to make a donation to Dingle GAA club how the gaa can say its against the rules. I guess the GAA, correctly in my view, see the taking of donations/ compensation call it what you will as legitimising Kennellys mercenary work and clubs if receiving payment would in reality acknowledge that they see themselves as feeder clubs to the AFL. Not a road down which the GAA should go in my view. Far better for the GAA to examine ways in which they can, while maintaining the amateur ethos of the games, reward players for careers at inter-county level than can span 15 years+ and which leads to large sums of money being gathered by the association each year. I'm not, just to be clear, in favour of pay for play or indeed any form of monetary payment for young players starting off in GAA but I do think they could examine the possibility of almost pension or testimonial payments if you will at the end of an inter-county career that spanned (and I'm just plucking this number out of the air) say 10 years. Players who give that commitment to playing football or hurling for their county, inevitably have to but career development, education etc on hold. A recognition of their contribution in a real sense is I think something that will have to be looked at. There is certainly other additional ways of countering the AFL leeches but it should be done not so much in the spirit of protectionism but more in one seeking to support the continued development of our games and trying to ensure players continue playing GAA for the length of their sporting careers.
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Post by Attacking Wing Back on Nov 15, 2016 13:12:07 GMT
I think you have a good idea there Joxer in theory. But, the only problem with 'testimonial' system is where do you draw the line?
Do you have to play 10 years or 50 championship games. I think a once off payment is best as you couldn't have the GAA or county boards administering pension schemes across the country. The only problem is the money a player gets is subject totax. I suppose you could argue a GAA player is an artist of sorts and give them tax free status. Worst comes to worst they write a book and the GAA buys 1000 copies.
I think though realistically even a testimonial system wouldn't work. Lets say you play more than 5 years for Kerry you get a testimonial match. All proceeds go to the player. That's fine if you are a Marquee player like the Gooch or Marc. Your nearly guaranteed a good crowd.
What if its a squad player like Keran O'Leary etc?
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Post by Mickmack on Nov 15, 2016 18:58:21 GMT
They should call it Combine Harvester as this is what it is harvestnoun. The process or period of gathering in crops.
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Post by Ballyfireside on Nov 15, 2016 20:39:08 GMT
Joxer is right, the GAA will become a feeder system and throwing us the crumbs of a few bob for our top players is adding insult to injury.
The compromise rules brings us close to them and they swipe, Mickey Harte was right, it is a joke and the price will be big and long lasting.
It started with seniors, then minors, what next? They will dangle the carrot, akin to child marketing, so unGAA but money talks loud. This is a bad time for the community, if it isn't the Brits and Yanks with Brexit and Irish immigrants then it is Aussies cherry picking our very best players. This will cost Kerry in tight encounters and all key games are becoming like that. We have lost 3 All Irelands already as a consequence and the screw is tightening.
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Joxer
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Post by Joxer on Nov 15, 2016 21:09:13 GMT
AWB, I didn't mean pension or testimonial in the traditional sense. What I meant, and should have expressed more clearly, is a once off payment upon retirement from the inter-county game. I think you would have to set the bar at something like 10 years and maybe 100 appearances in terms of league and championship combined ( I'm thinking that a guy could soldier with a weaker county for 15 years even and not play more than 30 championship matches so useful to include league in the interest of a fairer system). At least I think something like this should be costed but with an acknowledgment by GAA top brass that something meaningful needs to be done to recognise the commitment and the value these players bring to the Gaa and the country at large. The GAA could maybe divert its sky money that way.......
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Post by homerj on Nov 16, 2016 8:49:27 GMT
Is there any way to ensure that the players clubs or GAA have to get a transfer fee before they leave?
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Post by onlykerry on Nov 16, 2016 10:07:58 GMT
The excitement of going pro and being paid to train and play is a huge carrott - being courted by the Aussie game is also a great boost to most. What needs to be done to counter balance this is a dose of realism and GAA needs to highlight the many negatives of heading down under so that those being courted have all the facts before making a decision. I have sat through presentations by soccer coaches who talk up the prospect of playing pro-soccer to young talent, the buzz it creates in the minds of youngsters and many parents has to be seen to be believed. Yet the success rate is miniscule and few make the grade. At present the lure of Aussie rules seems to be runing high - great media coverage, the buzz of being wanted, the excitement of a big adventure etc etc - GAA needs to give the other side and highlight the risks and what is being given up. We need to compete for the minds of youngsters and not give free reign to the poachers. Some will go and the best of luck to them but we need to get our own house in order and compete for these youngsters to stay.
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Post by Mickmack on Nov 16, 2016 10:46:40 GMT
Tadhg Kennelly: ‘Cowboy S&Cs’ put players at risk Wednesday, November 16, 2016 By John Fogarty
GAA Correspondent
Tadhg Kennelly has warned Gaelic footballers are becoming too big and should take a lesson from Australian Rules Football about becoming leaner.
Running the rule over the best young footballers in his AFL Talent Combine in UCD this past weekend, the 2009 All-Ireland winner said their physiques are better than those of similar ages in Australia.
However, he is concerned that the strength and conditioning programmes in the sport are too focused on bulking up players and considers a lot of injuries are down to poor advice and direction.
“The average testing scores are quite close. We just left the top 18-year-old kids in Australia with the draft two weeks ago. It’s pretty much the exact same testing as we’ve been doing here and the averages are very close. If anything, the Irish boys are probably passing them out physically.
“But the AFL is going back to players losing weight, stripping it back, whereas Gaelic players are going the other way, which people need to be very careful with. There needs to be proper programmes put in place because you can go the other way as a footballer. It’s all well and good doing weight training, strength and conditioning and what-not, but the players need to be properly trained to play the game.
“If you’re a half-back you don’t want to be 90 kilos of muscle. You need to have a programme that’s specific to you. That’s what the AFL does very well: if you’re a full- forward they will put you on a programme to put on size; if you’re a running half-back they will give you a programme to lose weight.
“That’s something the GAA need to be very careful with because there are a lot of hip injuries and a lot of injuries from programmes not being read properly and set out by cowboy S&Cs. But people keep getting involved without a whole lot of research and understanding of it.”
Kennelly admits there remains a stereotypical view of Irish players as big men in Australia. “We’ve 11 players here over six foot and by AFL terms that is huge. We’ve six players over 6ft 3in. That’s huge. There’s an athlete type of AFL footballer but the game itself still has small players. There was a one metre 68cm (5 feet 6 inches) player, Caleb Daniel, who played in the Grand Final who was fourth in the young player of the year (voting). But there is a stereotype about an Irish player’s height and physique, which is attractive to clubs.”
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Post by kerrygold on Nov 16, 2016 11:04:27 GMT
The excitement of going pro and being paid to train and play is a huge carrott - being courted by the Aussie game is also a great boost to most. What needs to be done to counter balance this is a dose of realism and GAA needs to highlight the many negatives of heading down under so that those being courted have all the facts before making a decision. I have sat through presentations by soccer coaches who talk up the prospect of playing pro-soccer to young talent, the buzz it creates in the minds of youngsters and many parents has to be seen to be believed. Yet the success rate is miniscule and few make the grade. At present the lure of Aussie rules seems to be runing high - great media coverage, the buzz of being wanted, the excitement of a big adventure etc etc - GAA needs to give the other side and highlight the risks and what is being given up. We need to compete for the minds of youngsters and not give free reign to the poachers. Some will go and the best of luck to them but we need to get our own house in order and compete for these youngsters to stay. Nail on head. Kerry need to counter balance Kennellys whispering into these players ears.
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keane
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Post by keane on Nov 16, 2016 13:47:52 GMT
Does Kennelly have S&C qualifications?
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Post by Annascaultilidie on Nov 16, 2016 14:11:17 GMT
Does Kennelly have S&C qualifications? Don't assume that qualifications are equivalent to expertise. I am not saying BTW that TC's lack of qualifications implies expertise before somebody says that.
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Post by Mickmack on Nov 16, 2016 14:19:09 GMT
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keane
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Post by keane on Nov 16, 2016 14:22:11 GMT
Does Kennelly have S&C qualifications? Don't assume that qualifications are equivalent to expertise. I am not saying BTW that TC's lack of qualifications implies expertise before somebody says that. On the contrary, I don't assume he has any of either.
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Post by Mickmack on Nov 16, 2016 14:26:02 GMT
S&C. Smug and crass. He is well qualified
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Post by kerrygold on Nov 16, 2016 15:37:36 GMT
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kerryexile
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Post by kerryexile on Nov 16, 2016 15:38:54 GMT
The best statement that anyone can make about this is not to attend any of the games (if you could call them that). it would also be great if none of the Kerry players made themselves available. No matter who wins the AI, any Irish team without a couple of Kerry players is incomplete.
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Post by givehimaball on Nov 16, 2016 17:10:16 GMT
AWB, I didn't mean pension or testimonial in the traditional sense. What I meant, and should have expressed more clearly, is a once off payment upon retirement from the inter-county game. I think you would have to set the bar at something like 10 years and maybe 100 appearances in terms of league and championship combined ( I'm thinking that a guy could soldier with a weaker county for 15 years even and not play more than 30 championship matches so useful to include league in the interest of a fairer system). At least I think something like this should be costed but with an acknowledgment by GAA top brass that something meaningful needs to be done to recognise the commitment and the value these players bring to the Gaa and the country at large. The GAA could maybe divert its sky money that way....... I do think the GPA has improved things a lot in this regard - they offer career guidance/professional development courses, they offer upskilling/return to education/professional development stuff and they offer business start up/entrepreneur assistance. They also offer medical and mental support systems for former players and there is a benevolent fund for players as well. There is probably some other stuff as well but as I'm not a member I'm not aware of all the benefits. I do have some qualms about the GPA - the fact that the salaries of staff aren't disclosed is a disgrace in my opinion but they do seem to do a lot of decent stuff for players and former players compared to what previous generations of intercounty players got. For a lot of previous generations of intercounty players, it was a case of once you were dropped off the panel you might as well have been dead and gone, in terms of recognition/acknowledgment from a lot of county boards/Croke Park. I would imagine that with the increased deal the GPA signed with the GAA that the services provided will increase and that the Sky money is somewhat been used to fund this.
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Post by kerrygold on Nov 16, 2016 19:39:30 GMT
AWB, I didn't mean pension or testimonial in the traditional sense. What I meant, and should have expressed more clearly, is a once off payment upon retirement from the inter-county game. I think you would have to set the bar at something like 10 years and maybe 100 appearances in terms of league and championship combined ( I'm thinking that a guy could soldier with a weaker county for 15 years even and not play more than 30 championship matches so useful to include league in the interest of a fairer system). At least I think something like this should be costed but with an acknowledgment by GAA top brass that something meaningful needs to be done to recognise the commitment and the value these players bring to the Gaa and the country at large. The GAA could maybe divert its sky money that way....... I do think the GPA has improved things a lot in this regard - they offer career guidance/professional development courses, they offer upskilling/return to education/professional development stuff and they offer business start up/entrepreneur assistance. They also offer medical and mental support systems for former players and there is a benevolent fund for players as well. There is probably some other stuff as well but as I'm not a member I'm not aware of all the benefits. I do have some qualms about the GPA - the fact that the salaries of staff aren't disclosed is a disgrace in my opinion but they do seem to do a lot of decent stuff for players and former players compared to what previous generations of intercounty players got. For a lot of previous generations of intercounty players, it was a case of once you were dropped off the panel you might as well have been dead and gone, in terms of recognition/acknowledgment from a lot of county boards/Croke Park. I would imagine that with the increased deal the GPA signed with the GAA that the services provided will increase and that the Sky money is somewhat been used to fund this. Kerry might need to kick this on to a whole different level though if they are to compete for the hearts and minds of the next generation of young Kerry players coming through. On the financial side of things, Kerry's finances are intrinsically linked to Kerry contesting senior All-Ireland finals, win or lose them. Their funding is focused and based around All-Ireland final day spin off. To paint Armageddon, if as Patrick O'Sullivan suggested in his article, 6, 8 or 10 young Kerry players could end up in Australia over the next three years, well then Kerry won't be contesting All-Ireland finals in the next decade. Kerry can't be flippant on this and the Kennelly/Australian threat to Kerry football. I believe the threat is far more serious than is being realised. If it takes 2-3 good minors every year coming through to maintain the Kerry team, it is no great analysis of reasoning to suggest that losing the 2 or 3 good minors coming through every year will tilt the scales in the opposite direction. Kerry's consistent success over a hundred years is built and nourished on "being of Kerry to the core in heart, mind and spirt" and the aura and footballing know how this generates among it's people. We need to ensure that the next generation of young Kerry footballers remain "being of Kerry to the core" and realise the great life's privilege that is to be good enough to be a caretaker of the green and gold jersey. Kerry need to become proactive and cutting edge on this front in an ever changing world. The spuds, bacon and cabbage approach won't suffice going forward. We need to become blue chip at putting all structures in place to retain the hearts and minds of the next and coming generations. Now is the time to start and throw in that particular ball before the tide goes out!
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Post by Ballyfireside on Nov 16, 2016 20:00:26 GMT
The Aussie lads couldn't believe their eyes when they went into the bank in Killarney and there was Gooch behind the counter just days after playing against him.
And they couldn't have manufactured a better scout man with our Tadhg being from Kerry, and the strategy is so obvious, use the thin end of the wedge to target high profile minors clad of green and gold, and the rest will follow in their droves. And they even have him media trained, just read the Examiner article where he ridiculed Killian and misquoted him.
I honored Tadhg's achievement with that poem and he was feted all around Listowel, so people won't be so happy that he would inflict such permanent damage on the county, and all for a few bob. I am barred from mentioning those who have the required influence and any such discomfort will be dwarfed by the terminal damage. Like others on here I wish Marc well but we shouldn't be helping the Aussies to hinder us by tapping into and syphoning from our pipeline, therefore all GAA facilities should be withdrawn immediately and the international rules should be terminated for good, before it terminates us -it is us or them!
That financial solutions are the only ones mentioned on here proves how vulnerable we are and we cannot go down that road as it debases the amateur status and with that comes another nail in the coffin of weaker clubs and counties in rural Ireland.
Aussie rules have already cost us 3 All Irelands, they might well have cost Tommy Walsh his career -how much more damage will be done?
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Post by Deleted on Nov 16, 2016 20:10:37 GMT
Would people be willing to pay 500 a year to a special ticket scheme to ensure these structures are in place and the best players are kept at home?
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Post by Mickmack on Nov 16, 2016 20:58:01 GMT
The GAA has 20-25 million discretionary spend. I think that every year. There is so much money floating around, its mind boggling.
This drain to Oz is not just Kerry's problem. Its a GAA problem but I havent seen much evidence of the top brass giving a toss. Selling the games to Sky and getting reday for the rugby world cup are the main things it seems to me.
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