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Post by kerrygold on May 21, 2017 9:58:59 GMT
Agree with everything Mike & Tomas have said except Mikes point on payment. The poaching then becomes a legitimate business transaction between an amateur organisation and a professional one. Good to see some of the past players at last starting to stick their heads above the parapet and challenge Kennelly.
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Post by sayitasiseeit on May 21, 2017 12:01:24 GMT
Tomas Se's tiff with Tadhg is pointless. Fair enough Tadhg is recruiting these players with the spotlight on Kerry's best talent but the fact is that if Tadhg didn't hold that position that he does, some other guy would be recruiting the Mark O Connors of this world. My point is that if Tadgh stepped down from his job in the morning it wouldn't reduce the numbers going to oz. Its not like David Clifford and these lads are hiding under stones. They're burning it up on a national stage. They are standing out like sore thumbs. Stevie Wonder would pick them out as prospects for several pro sports. GAA is gone professional now in everything bar the payments. Croke Park needs to look at a way of liasoning with the Government to give intercounty players a tax break or something. Gaelic Games is worth a fortune to the country every year. The money and economic spin off that it generates is vast not to mention how it enriches our society year on year. A tax break of some kind would mean that guys would still persue careers whilst maybe benefiting by paying a little less tax in the years that they are playing football.
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Post by onlykerry on May 21, 2017 12:07:42 GMT
Huge tendency to look elsewhere to lay blame for things we dislike.
Mark made a good personal decision going to Oz - as a Kerry supporter it is disappointing. Stay and have club county and college pulling out of you while you study and try to manage your injuries or go to Oz, get paid, have one team to focus on and get your body right.
We can't compete on pay but we must tackle those issues we can that make it more attractive to go - sort the calendar and competing demands by putting heads together to resolve the crap.
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Post by kerrybhoy06 on May 21, 2017 12:45:12 GMT
Probably the most galling thing, or one of them anyway, of this spat is Tadgh's attempt to make out that he is on some benevolent crusade to give people opportunities- more self gratifying nonsense from him
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Post by Ballyfireside on May 21, 2017 13:00:52 GMT
Tomás does not envy anyone and Kerry supporters wished Mark all the best and as would be the case across the GAA community, or indeed any community that respects talent and merit. But just because Tadhg makes a living from using his contacts to win over recruits doesn't mean everyone has to like it.
This wider issue is a reality the GAA has to deal with or live with and it is a damage limitation exercise. Parts of the solution are within the GAA's own control, e.g. Stop the compromise rules saga as it is dangerous as well as everything else. Another contributory factor is national inequality and where the GAA as a voluntary body has to endure the deadweight burden of stealth wealth and which equates to over €10,000 per head of population pa. Meanwhile nobody can blame a lad for looking at the financial aspect and he will have but one chance in life - if he is good enough then good luck to him.
I have alluded to this inequality down the years and I have evidenced cronyism as the dominant force at the very heart of society. This is the sting in the tail and the same ones who supported wrong doing will now be on stage taking a populist view but when it really mattered they were fighting the corner of the culprits.
On a more positive note, money is shown to erode the DNA of sport so Gaelic games will progress gradually if it can maintain it's current status as a sport as opposed to a business. If we loose it then the next gate to be padlocked is the rural GAA sports field.
PS As regards Quirkies article, while his suggestion is in the right spirit it is not practical and won't work in the real world, but it shows how scarce solutions are and I have said above.
And yes, it is unfortunate that it is Tadhg and nobody could do it better for the Oz gang, and by definition nobody could be worse for us and indeed the wider GAA community. Without wishing to sound arrogant but Kerry is often looked up to where Gaelic football is concerned and the floodgates are most likely to open if a Kerryman is recruiting. That Tadhg came back and won an All Ireland medal makes it even worse again, puts him top of the pile and now gets Mark O'Connor to start talking up for him. Rural GAA is headed the way of the shopkeeper of old with big powerful chains having loss leaders in staples to lure customers away and drive a nail in rural Ireland. If the GAA sticks to it's principles that money is bad for sport then we will get the best outcome and we will have many more spectacles as was in Croker yesterday; otherwise we are doomed to playing without our Mick O'Connells and Mickey Sheehys and Jack O'Sheas and Goochs of tomorrow as we present them on a plate to the highest bidder. The reality is that with Tommy alone we could have a few more Sams, just one man, one great man who was destroyed. And it won't be long before other counties feel the pain, many of which are less well able to weather the storm than us.
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keane
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Post by keane on May 21, 2017 15:59:46 GMT
If it wasn't Tadhg it would probably be someone else that's probably true. I'd prefer if it was someone else personally to be honest.
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Post by glengael on May 22, 2017 9:49:58 GMT
One can but imagine the furore that would have occurred had Kevin Moran(the most successful GAA export to professional sport) come back to Ireland, say in 1990's as an agent persuading players to go over to soccer clubs in England, and had he then suceeded in taking one of Dublin's best prospects to Old Trafford or Ewood Park ..
Kerry football is a selfish beast and wants the best for itself always. That is hardly new news. That is the essence of why there is upset at losing any player who might contribute to the cause. We are even more annoyed then that one of our own is doing the facilitating (just as Dublin supporters would have been mightly annoyed had the above scenario happened fadó fadÓ).
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Post by homerj on May 23, 2017 13:56:17 GMT
i have no affiliation to Tadhg but i have to say, i think we are playing the victim card too much here - we seem to think its only kerry he is impacting when the facts and reality suggest otherwise.
of the 50 players to go over to Australia, we only have 5 of them and only 3 since 1999 when Tadhg went over. thats one player, every 6 years.
cork have had 6 over there since the mid 90s. even Laois have 4 for f*ck sake.
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inchperfect
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Post by inchperfect on May 23, 2017 14:21:03 GMT
i have no affiliation to Tadhg but i have to say, i think we are playing the victim card too much here - we seem to think its only kerry he is impacting when the facts and reality suggest otherwise. of the 50 players to go over to Australia, we only have 5 of them and only 3 since 1999 when Tadhg went over. thats one player, every 6 years. cork have had 6 over there since the mid 90s. even Laois have 4 for f*ck sake. Exactly, they shouldn't be taking any Irish players. The first guy who came over in the 80's to take Irish players should've been told by the GAA "Be a good Aussie, turn around, and go home" Bull McCabe style. Australia is a country of 24 million people, I don't see why they have to come over here taking players to adjust them to a different sport and a different shaped ball, surely there's enough talent in Australia and the amount of success stories compared to unsuccessful stories is lopsided. I don't know why they bother, surely they're better off sticking to kids who have played with an oval ball all their life.
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Post by Annascaultilidie on May 23, 2017 14:41:56 GMT
i have no affiliation to Tadhg but i have to say, i think we are playing the victim card too much here - we seem to think its only kerry he is impacting when the facts and reality suggest otherwise. of the 50 players to go over to Australia, we only have 5 of them and only 3 since 1999 when Tadhg went over. thats one player, every 6 years. cork have had 6 over there since the mid 90s. even Laois have 4 for f*ck sake. Exactly, they shouldn't be taking any Irish players. The first guy who came over in the 80's to take Irish players should've been told by the GAA "Be a good Aussie, turn around, and go home" Bull McCabe style. Australia is a country of 24 million people, I don't see why they have to come over here taking players to adjust them to a different sport and a different shaped ball, surely there's enough talent in Australia and the amount of success stories compared to unsuccessful stories is lopsided. I don't know why they bother, surely they're better off sticking to kids who have played with an oval ball all their life. Players can do what they like. This is the nub of it. The GAA doesn't control the players and quite rightly so.
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keane
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Post by keane on May 23, 2017 14:42:03 GMT
Australia is a country of 24 million people, I don't see why they have to come over here taking players to adjust them to a different sport and a different shaped ball, surely there's enough talent in Australia and the amount of success stories compared to unsuccessful stories is lopsided. I don't know why they bother, surely they're better off sticking to kids who have played with an oval ball all their life. Actually agree with that most of all, what the fuck are they doing in their underage development if our players are even possibly a good investment? It's very difficult to believe for all Tadhg's statements about minimum contracts etc that our players must be coming at a serious discount considering the difference in risk between taking a punt on one of them vs recruiting a player with a long history of playing AFL.
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Post by kerrygold on May 23, 2017 14:43:26 GMT
Kennelly merits no plaudits from anyone in Kerry for his cherry picking and poaching of the very best young Kerry players coming through the Kerry developments squads. It just can not be dressed up in any positive light for Kerry football.
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inchperfect
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Post by inchperfect on May 23, 2017 15:02:55 GMT
Exactly, they shouldn't be taking any Irish players. The first guy who came over in the 80's to take Irish players should've been told by the GAA "Be a good Aussie, turn around, and go home" Bull McCabe style. Australia is a country of 24 million people, I don't see why they have to come over here taking players to adjust them to a different sport and a different shaped ball, surely there's enough talent in Australia and the amount of success stories compared to unsuccessful stories is lopsided. I don't know why they bother, surely they're better off sticking to kids who have played with an oval ball all their life. Players can do what they like. This is the nub of it. The GAA doesn't control the players and quite rightly so. Your apathy is winding me up now, with Marc and probably David Clifford going down under the AFL is costing us future All Irelands and I don't know how that can sit well with any Kerry GAA fan.
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Post by onlykerry on May 23, 2017 15:48:24 GMT
Reality check folks.
What is good for Kerry football is one thing and what is good for an individual is totally different.
If this trend of criticism of Mark (and others) is taken to its logical conclusion we should insist on intelligent footballers avoiding onerous courses of study that may impact their ability to train to the standards required. Football is a passtime in the GAA and even though we live and breath it as fans with an "animal" instinct for contstant success we do not own the players and we are privilidged when they dedicate themselves to the Kerry cause - they owe us nothing and never will. It is not apathy it is reality.
As a Kerry fan I will be gutted if we lose DC but it is his choice and all we can do is try to make staying so attractive that he says no to any offer.
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Post by Annascaultilidie on May 23, 2017 15:49:30 GMT
Players can do what they like. This is the nub of it. The GAA doesn't control the players and quite rightly so. Your apathy is winding me up now, with Marc and probably David Clifford going down under the AFL is costing us future All Irelands and I don't know how that can sit well with any Kerry GAA fan. I don't intend on winding you up. I would much rather if Mark O'Connor and other people stayed and played for Kerry but you can't tell people they can't go. I would be quite happy to talk about ways in which we can do more to keep these talents but I don't really want to when, in your own words, you don't want Mark doing well.
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keane
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Post by keane on May 23, 2017 15:56:25 GMT
Reality check folks. What is good for Kerry football is one thing and what is good for an individual is totally different. If this trend of criticism of Mark (and others) is taken to its logical conclusion we should insist on intelligent footballers avoiding onerous courses of study that may impact their ability to train to the standards required. Football is a passtime in the GAA and even though we live and breath it as fans with an "animal" instinct for contstant success we do not own the players and we are privilidged when they dedicate themselves to the Kerry cause - they owe us nothing and never will. It is not apathy it is reality. As a Kerry fan I will be gutted if we lose DC but it is his choice and all we can do is try to make staying so attractive that he says no to any offer. Has there actually been criticism of Mark?
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Post by Annascaultilidie on May 23, 2017 16:07:15 GMT
Reality check folks. What is good for Kerry football is one thing and what is good for an individual is totally different. If this trend of criticism of Mark (and others) is taken to its logical conclusion we should insist on intelligent footballers avoiding onerous courses of study that may impact their ability to train to the standards required. Football is a passtime in the GAA and even though we live and breath it as fans with an "animal" instinct for contstant success we do not own the players and we are privilidged when they dedicate themselves to the Kerry cause - they owe us nothing and never will. It is not apathy it is reality. As a Kerry fan I will be gutted if we lose DC but it is his choice and all we can do is try to make staying so attractive that he says no to any offer. Has there actually been criticism of Mark? Some people want him to fail over there. Not the same thing I am aware but certainly a negative thought towards the young lad.
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Post by onlykerry on May 23, 2017 17:04:05 GMT
Reality check folks. What is good for Kerry football is one thing and what is good for an individual is totally different. If this trend of criticism of Mark (and others) is taken to its logical conclusion we should insist on intelligent footballers avoiding onerous courses of study that may impact their ability to train to the standards required. Football is a passtime in the GAA and even though we live and breath it as fans with an "animal" instinct for contstant success we do not own the players and we are privilidged when they dedicate themselves to the Kerry cause - they owe us nothing and never will. It is not apathy it is reality. As a Kerry fan I will be gutted if we lose DC but it is his choice and all we can do is try to make staying so attractive that he says no to any offer. Has there actually been criticism of Mark? The criticism is not necessarily overt but it is the underlying theme of this thread - the actual criticism is levelled at the facilitator but the real issue that is constantly at the core of the thread is the decision by Mark to go to Oz and play pro ball leaving Kerry to fend without him despite all that his school, club and county coaches have invested in him. This is entirely his choice and I hope he is a tremendous success whilst regretting that he is not lining out with Kerry.
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Post by Mickmack on May 23, 2017 17:08:47 GMT
There is a line towards the end of Donaghys book when he thinks about the money he might have been on the european professional basketball circuit. He thinks how secure financially he could be now that he has a wife and family and a mortgage.
Maybe the place all of this is heading is professionalisn in the gaa although i can see lots of problems with that ....
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Post by kerrybhoy06 on May 23, 2017 20:14:24 GMT
A lot of the criticism being directed at the facilitator is more so at people on here who are idiotic enough to believe that he ever had any real interest in the betterment of Kerry GAA.
He has always been interested in the betterment of his bank balance- which is his prerogative- but we need to accept that and drop this yarn of the lost lad longing for home that he has tried to spin
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on May 23, 2017 20:42:51 GMT
You are the idiot with your silly anti Kennelly agenda.
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Post by kerrybhoy06 on May 23, 2017 20:47:51 GMT
You are the idiot with your silly anti Kennelly agenda. Good, and mature, comeback. I guess when I'm dealing with this high calibre of debating skill then I better accept defeat
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Post by kerrygold on May 23, 2017 21:03:46 GMT
There is a line towards the end of Donaghys book when he thinks about the money he might have been on the european professional basketball circuit. He thinks how secure financially he could be now that he has a wife and family and a mortgage. Maybe the place all of this is heading is professionalisn in the gaa although i can see lots of problems with that .... High end players grants, tax breaks for players, college bursaries and career academys should have been well embraced by now and not the mean spirited attitude to the grants at the time. Semi professionalism in some guise is inevitable. Full professionalism is a long way down the road.
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Post by homerj on May 23, 2017 21:41:45 GMT
Kennelly merits no plaudits from anyone in Kerry for his cherry picking and poaching of the very best young Kerry players coming through the Kerry developments squads. It just can not be dressed up in any positive light for Kerry football. but its not Kerry, its Ireland. we seem to be the only county whinging about it so forcefully. one player has been taken out of the development squads in the last 8 years.
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Joxer
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Post by Joxer on May 23, 2017 21:43:58 GMT
The issue for me is not so much that young fellows decide to take a chance on a professional career in sport in Australia...they are entitled to do so as others have said though I think in the circumstances of the game they are transferring to the gamble is a high risk one on a number of fronts . The issue is that the AFL / AFL clubs, through Kennelly in this instance but if not him, likely to be someone else ( a greater pity though that it is someone who we had at least a high regard for) is/are making money on the back of thousands of unpaid volunteer hours put in here by local GAA people helping to ensure the development of the players being cherry picked now. I have no regard for Kennelly now but the issue is bigger than him. The breaking off of any connection with the AFL is surely fundamental at this point but much more should and could be done.
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Post by homerj on May 23, 2017 21:45:42 GMT
and lets get real here. every member of this forum would accept a place in Australia if they were offered it - professional game, big contract, the weather, beaches, lifestyle, woman...it has everything that we cant offer to lads in Kerry.
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Post by kerrygold on May 23, 2017 21:54:00 GMT
Kennelly merits no plaudits from anyone in Kerry for his cherry picking and poaching of the very best young Kerry players coming through the Kerry developments squads. It just can not be dressed up in any positive light for Kerry football. but its not Kerry, its Ireland. we seem to be the only county whinging about it so forcefully. one player has been taken out of the development squads in the last 8 years. Your welcome to Kennelly....................
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on May 24, 2017 3:55:45 GMT
You are the idiot with your silly anti Kennelly agenda. Good, and mature, comeback. I guess when I'm dealing with this high calibre of debating skill then I better accept defeat You don't get it. That is ok. There is nothing to debate here.
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Post by kerrybhoy06 on May 24, 2017 7:31:08 GMT
Good, and mature, comeback. I guess when I'm dealing with this high calibre of debating skill then I better accept defeat You don't get it. That is ok. There is nothing to debate here. I dont get it? Haha- yeah because there's a high degree of complexity to this discussion. Your attempts to patrionise are quite hilarious due to the fact that you seem to neither have an opinion nor an ability to get it across
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Post by A.N. Other on May 24, 2017 9:35:27 GMT
Your apathy is winding me up now, with Marc and probably David Clifford going down under the AFL is costing us future All Irelands and I don't know how that can sit well with any Kerry GAA fan. I don't intend on winding you up. I would much rather if Mark O'Connor and other people stayed and played for Kerry but you can't tell people they can't go. I would be quite happy to talk about ways in which we can do more to keep these talents but I don't really want to when, in your own words, you don't want Mark doing well. I agree with you Annascaultilidie. People that don't want Mark to do well baffle me. Obviously it would be great if he was playing for Kerry and the same with Clifford if he does decide to go or get a chance to go. But these fellas want to go there, people don't seem to take this into consideration. People have even said Mark should stay out of this whole discussion. He is an adult and made a decision that benefits himself and his family. Who wouldn't make that decision? He is a massive loss to both Kerry and Dingle but he is excelling in Geelong playing the last two games also. He seems pretty happy with his decision and I'm glad its working out for him. Does anyone actually think there is a way we could stop them from going to Australia without contracts and professionalism in the GAA? I don't personally.
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