seamus
Fanatical Member
Posts: 2,741
|
Post by seamus on Jun 16, 2015 10:31:34 GMT
In its fully exposed light, the madness of McBrearty not starting last year's AI final Agree 100%. It was a crazy decision. He caused chaos when he came on and it emerged after than Kerry had a specific plan in place to counter him which involved Shane Enright being sprung to mark him. McBreaty could have tipped the scales.
|
|
|
Post by donegalman on Jun 16, 2015 10:34:29 GMT
In its fully exposed light, the madness of McBrearty not starting last year's AI final Many felt that this was a bigger issue than the second half goal. But we will never know. The thing is that the players are focused on one game at a time as looking backwards or forwards is too much of a distraction. Having said that, there is a massive tactical lesson learned from last years final. Armagh tried to set up the way that Kerry did in last years final, pushing up on the donegal advance on their own 50. Instead of constantly running it, we were sending the ball over this turn over area into the full forward line. It worked a treat, as did some great long range frees from the same area when we did decide to run it. Mind you, there was hardly any intensity in the Armagh tackle and you cant really say much more than on paper we got it right on sunday.
|
|
|
Post by southward on Jun 16, 2015 14:25:41 GMT
I noticed in the Galway/Mayo game that Aiden O'Shea inflicted a hand off to the face of a Galway player just as he did to JO'D in Limerick last year, ignored by the referee on both occasions. I would regard it as a red card offence.
It is a shame that Galway are uanble to cobble together a decent full back line. On the evidence of the games seen so far, Dublin and Donegal seem to the front runners but a lot of balls remain to be caught and kicked, and hand passed I suppose, before one day in September. Yeah, O'Shea fairly clobbered James that time and he wasn't worth spit afterwards (went off a while later). In fairness, this particular tactic has crept in the last few years and everyone's doing it now, includng our lads. Needs to be stamped out.
|
|
|
Post by veteran on Jun 16, 2015 20:48:41 GMT
I noticed in the Galway/Mayo game that Aiden O'Shea inflicted a hand off to the face of a Galway player just as he did to JO'D in Limerick last year, ignored by the referee on both occasions. I would regard it as a red card offence.
It is a shame that Galway are uanble to cobble together a decent full back line. On the evidence of the games seen so far, Dublin and Donegal seem to the front runners but a lot of balls remain to be caught and kicked, and hand passed I suppose, before one day in September. Yeah, O'Shea fairly clobbered James that time and he wasn't worth spit afterwards (went off a while later). In fairness, this particular tactic has crept in the last few years and everyone's doing it now, includng our lads. Needs to be stamped out. Southward, I don't agree that everyone is using a hand off to the face. I do agree that most players are using a hand off but it is to the body. The latter offence is illegal but referees are ignoring it except of course Joe McQuillan who whistled David Moran for it against Tyrone. Joe is different you know! In any case, the hand off per se is a foul but it is not dangerous. However, the hand off to the face is very dangerous, especially when executed by a man as powerful as Aiden O'Shea. In essence it is a blow to the face, therefore a red card. It is imperative that referees clamp down on this offence before it becomes commonplace.
|
|
|
Post by donegalman on Jun 16, 2015 22:51:26 GMT
The hand off is tolerated the same way that over carrying the ball is, or the 2 or 3 man tackle is, or the way a player can hit another player while trying to dispossess him. There are so many grey areas and inconsistencies in decision making in the game now that a refs job seems to be a balancing act rather than enforcing the rules to the letter of the law. It is a big problem and I am at a loss as to how it is going to be sorted out.
|
|
|
Post by Annascaultilidie on Jun 17, 2015 6:30:38 GMT
It is charging that I feel as completely fallen off the radar.
|
|
|
Post by donegalman on Jun 18, 2015 14:49:57 GMT
It is charging that I feel as completely fallen off the radar. Another spectacular dilemma for a ref. A classic situation is where a player is inevitably crowded out or surrounded in possession. He either goes to ground, tries to off lay the ball to a supporting player or into space at the very best case scenario, or break out of the trap of players. Is this charging? If it is, what option does he have? Very often the player caught this way in possession is fouled by 2 men tackling. It is rarely penalized by referees. The tactics of the game will eventually evolve to counter this situation, keeping the ball moving is a way of doing this, but positional awareness, and ball handling skills have to be perfect to do it.
|
|
|
Post by Annascaultilidie on Jun 18, 2015 15:40:27 GMT
It is charging that I feel as completely fallen off the radar. Another spectacular dilemma for a ref. A classic situation is where a player is inevitably crowded out or surrounded in possession. He either goes to ground, tries to off lay the ball to a supporting player or into space at the very best case scenario, or break out of the trap of players. Is this charging? If it is, what option does he have? Very often the player caught this way in possession is fouled by 2 men tackling. It is rarely penalized by referees. The tactics of the game will eventually evolve to counter this situation, keeping the ball moving is a way of doing this, but positional awareness, and ball handling skills have to be perfect to do it. I agree regarding your crowded/surrounded scenario. I am more talking about runners coming from deep who just run straight into backs. There was a great example at the end of the Kerry-Monaghan league game where a Kerry player steamrolled right into a Monaghan back and went hurtling. These days it seems to be a stonewall free and I was delighted to see the ref call... either play on or a free out. I am also talking about 2011...
|
|
|
Post by kerrygold on Jun 20, 2015 18:51:43 GMT
Connacht SFC semi-final H/T Sligo 1-07 Roscommon 0-05
|
|
|
Post by kerrygold on Jun 20, 2015 19:50:03 GMT
Connacht SFC semi-final RES Sligo 1-14 Roscommon 0-13
A big blow to John Evans and Roscommon.
|
|
|
Post by sullyschoice on Jun 20, 2015 20:54:01 GMT
They were very poor
|
|
|
Post by Attacking Wing Back on Jun 20, 2015 23:27:25 GMT
Roscommon were terrible. Looked like a team that was either over trained or unfit. All they hype about them will disappate now and they might put together a run through the qualifiers. I dont know what Liam Kearns is doing as a forwards coach as Roscommon hadnt a clue what to do apart from run down cul de sacs with the ball
|
|
|
Post by kerrygold on Jun 21, 2015 19:55:35 GMT
Cake throw the cake out of the oven this evening on the Marty squad and more or less stated that Evans is not up to speed for this job in a very hard hitting commentary.
|
|
|
Post by Annascaultilidie on Jun 21, 2015 20:12:38 GMT
Cake throw the cake out of the oven this evening on the Marty squad and more or less stated that Evans is not up to speed for this job in a very hard hitting commentary. He is not a very good pundit though is he?
|
|
|
Post by Attacking Wing Back on Jun 21, 2015 22:01:23 GMT
Ya curran is a bit of a clown in fairness. That said he had a point about all the switches pre game etc. the performance was abject as well.
Have never rated Evans to be honest. Think he is a bit of a bluffer if truth be told.
|
|
|
Post by Annascaultilidie on Jun 21, 2015 22:25:18 GMT
Ya curran is a bit of a clown in fairness. That said he had a point about all the switches pre game etc. the performance was abject as well. Not really. He was saying it was very confusing...it might have been confusing for the spectators but I'm sure the players themselves knew about the switches that would be made.
|
|
|
Post by kerrygold on Jun 22, 2015 19:03:43 GMT
Ya curran is a bit of a clown in fairness. That said he had a point about all the switches pre game etc. the performance was abject as well. Have never rated Evans to be honest. Think he is a bit of a bluffer if truth be told. Far from a clown, Shane Curran's company www.globalfloodsolutions.com/
|
|
kot
Fanatical Member
Posts: 1,128
|
Post by kot on Jun 23, 2015 10:06:33 GMT
Connacht SFC semi-final RES Sligo 1-14 Roscommon 0-13 A big blow to John Evans and Roscommon. Evans getting a fair slating for talking up Roscommon. He never was one to keep his counsel.
|
|
|
Post by kerrygold on Jun 23, 2015 11:14:10 GMT
Connacht SFC semi-final RES Sligo 1-14 Roscommon 0-13 A big blow to John Evans and Roscommon. Evans getting a fair slating for talking up Roscommon. He never was one to keep his counsel. Roscommon County Board and senior management team not too happy with Curran apparently.
|
|
|
Post by Mickmack on Jun 23, 2015 21:10:26 GMT
Maybe its simply that Sligo were very good
|
|
kot
Fanatical Member
Posts: 1,128
|
Post by kot on Jun 24, 2015 9:42:17 GMT
Maybe its simply that Sligo were very good Mickmack, Sligo played very well but when you are being talked up the way Roscommon were and to go out there and put up a display like that and the shooting from them . . . . my god! Then of course they are going to be focus of the aftermatch reaction. If they are happy to be the talk of the town before, then take the repercussions.
|
|
|
Post by Mickmack on Jun 24, 2015 11:13:27 GMT
BY JIM MCGUINNESS IRISH TIMES
Sitting in Markievicz Park on Saturday evening brought to life this little debate I had been having with myself leading into the championship. I was wondering which counties might be best placed to cause an upset and challenge the established teams.
Cavan, Tipperary and Roscommon were the teams that were most on my mind because of their impressive underage record in recent years. Could they make a breakthrough?
So I was excited driving up to Sligo on Saturday afternoon. Roscommon had made significant strides, going from Division Three to Division One, were impressive at under-21 level and had developed some young, quality forwards. So I wanted to see how they would go.
It didn’t happen. Sligo stole the show in the things that I was hoping to see. And I felt that what Sligo did was a perfect illustration of why it has become so important for any team to have a system in place that the players understand and a game plan that works for them.
There are so many facets, from physical fitness and conditioning to the tactical side of things, such as the opposition’s kick-out strategy and their defensive system. And if you want a big performance you have to cover all of those aspects to a very high level. A huge amount of coaching can go into developing even one of them to the requisite level to be an All-Ireland contender.
What impressed me about Sligo was that they wrapped their system and game plan around the players at their disposal. So they had two players inside, one of whom, Pat Hughes, provided size and ball-winning ability and the other, David Kelly, who provided skill and agility. And it was great to see David back to his best.
Different dynamic Sligo played a kind of a box up front, with the two full forwards 15 to 20 metres apart. The two half forwards, Adrian Marren and Mark Breheny, were at times also 15 to 20 metres apart. Both of these guys are playmakers but Adrian can also switch inside and give them a different dynamic. So straight away, they had a good mix there.
The other two forwards at 10 and 12, Criostoir Davey and Neil Ewing were the lungs of the team, playing the prototype modern half-forward role. Similarly, they had terrific mobility in the middle of the park. I had heard about these two guys, just 19 and 21 years old, and going into the ground people were excited about the prospect of seeing them. Neither are tall for midfielders so it was going to be interesting to see if they would be able to cope with the size and physical strength of Roscommon in that sector and to establish themselves as ball-playing midfielders.
It seemed like a huge task but at the back of my mind I was thinking that Niall Carew wouldn’t be doing this if he felt they weren’t able for it. The six defenders, as far as I could see, were given a clear instruction to get the better of their men on an individual basis. They stayed very tight to their men. It was up to the two midfielders and 10 and 12 to fill the gaps.
Based on their age profile and fitness, they were more than capable of doing that. Then, at the bottom of the pitch, you had the goalkeeper, Aidan Devaney. I was very impressed with him. He brought a lot of variation to his kick outs and was very accurate and he constantly asked questions of the Roscommon midfielders.
The Sligo goal in the first half came from that: it was a really good kick out, even though Roscommon had pushed up. It was a diagonal kick out to the wing which was won and immediately kicked in on the diagonal, and from a shot that came off post the ball ended up in Ewing’s hands and he was brought down for the penalty. Sligo were very slick with their kick outs.
They ticked a lot of boxes by tailoring their tactics and strategy to the players they have available. The half forwards, in particular, played a critical role because it is not a very defensive system, so in order to mark as tightly as they did, the Sligo defenders had to know that they had the cover from 10 and 12. Once they succeeded in turning the ball over, they were in a good position immediately.
Foot passers Both Breheny and Marren are very good foot passers and they used the diagonal ball very well. It gave their attack a lot of options because the four guys had to be marked and when the wing forwards went deep, they too had to be marked. But the flip side is that if the midfielders and the two half forwards aren’t doing their job, then the team becomes porous at the back and the whole thing falls apart.
It was an example to all teams. Of the teams that are generally agreed to be leading contenders for the All-Ireland, it seems to me that Donegal are very far down the track in terms of understanding the processes that underpin their system and their game plan.
People talk about “playing Donegal at their own game” or “playing Dublin at their own game”, but the reality is that it is their game plan precisely because it suits their players. So it can be a difficult thing for other counties to replicate or imitate.
For instance, the only team to beat Donegal in the past four years in Ulster has been Monaghan. They have been compared to Donegal in terms of how they set up. But there is probably a solid reason for that.
If you look at Monaghan, they have similar players to Donegal. They have two top-level inside forwards with pace, power and size in Kieran Hughes and Conor McManus. They have defenders who like to defend and are strong and aggressive. They have a very skilful goalkeeper who can work a good kick-out strategy and kick points from long range. Their mentality is very similar too. There would be no fear of opposition teams. Monaghan bring a lot of those attributes, which is why it suits them to replicate the Donegal system. But it may not suit other teams.
And Sligo seemed to come up with a strategy to suit themselves and which asks questions of the opposition.
The last and most important thing in terms of championship football is attitude: hunger and desire. Roscommon didn’t have that to the same degree as Sligo.
If you have two teams that are very well matched and well coached and have all the training done, then it will come down to mentality. On Saturday night, Roscommon didn’t look as if they had the processes nailed down and they struggled to match the attitude of Sligo. I felt that you could see from early on that Sligo were going to win the game.
It is a big setback for Roscommon because you have to remember how hard they pushed Mayo last year. I imagine that John Evans will feel slightly hoodwinked today. I don’t believe it was complacency that cost Roscommon.
Sligo obviously got to see Roscommon play twice so they had the opportunity to reaffirm what they were thinking of doing. If you take that information back to your squad and you are 99 per cent sure that you know what the opposition are going to do in a given situation, you can talk with conviction and, in my opinion, that conviction can translate into belief.
Tailor training That is why teams that are highly prepared play with belief. Sligo had 11 weeks to plan for this from the end of the league and then watch Roscommon in the league final, develop a game plan and tailor training to that, then go to London to watch Roscommon play again, do the analysis a second time, hopefully have their thinking confirmed and then say: right, we are on the right track. If we do this, this, and this, they will struggle.
That is what happened.
The trick now for Sligo is to be able to replicate that and to bring consistency. The question is now: will the same system prevail the next day? It is very difficult to get a high level of team-functioning across all the key areas.
That is the challenge facing Sligo now as they think about meeting Mayo. They have established a template but will it suffice? Will mobility in the middle of the park do the next day? There will be different challenges presented by Mayo.
In my opinion, if you want to be successful, the core principles have to be there 80 per cent of the time and then you leave 20 per cent to adapt and improvise according to the teams that you meet.
Whenever I was putting a system in place, I wanted something that you didn’t have to change and move all the time and yet which had the flexibility within it to allow for the different teams we would meet. The idea is that there are pillars there and they remain stable and constant and you look to strengthen those every night. They underpin a huge part of the game plan you devise to try to beat your opposition.
It worked wonderfully for Sligo on Saturday evening. Did we see the unveiling of a new Sligo system or was that a game plan just for Roscommon? That will become more apparent when we next see them play. If it is a system, will it endure? Will it be enough to prevent Mayo from a fifth Connacht title in a row?
That is the coaching challenge for Sligo now. And all managers and teams face similar challenges on training fields across the land.
|
|
|
Post by Annascaultilidie on Jun 24, 2015 11:17:21 GMT
It is interesting to note that in most two tier structures, Sligo would never have had the chance to play Les Rossiu.
|
|
|
Post by MrRasherstoyou on Jun 24, 2015 21:40:46 GMT
Nobody ever said there shouldn't be a knockout competition where any team can play another, I certainly never said it. Only the doomsday red-herring merchants were insisting that thee weakest counties shouldn't be playing the top counties. In any case most ideas for new structures maintain the provincial championship in some way or form.
|
|
|
Post by donegalman on Jun 25, 2015 0:07:23 GMT
I think the provincial structures will not be done away with just yet. We saw a good shock last weekend in connaught. We could be in for another one at the weekend here in ulster, although I doubt it. I think that we will win, but beating another division 1 team is not exactly David v Goliath. I think that Kildare could put up a brave performance against Dublin. I hope it is a good game, not like the last one we saw, no disrespect to Longford but they were as green as they were unheroic in both how they played and how they set up. I am also waiting for results in the back door that could be very relevant to us. Tyrone and Armagh will be even harder to beat should we have to play them again.
|
|
|
Post by glengael on Jun 26, 2015 11:32:39 GMT
Donegal should surely have the firepower upfront to beat Derry, on the evidence of what we've seen from both so far this season.
|
|
Jigz84
Fanatical Member
Posts: 2,017
|
Post by Jigz84 on Jun 26, 2015 11:37:42 GMT
Derry will be stubborn but in the end won't have the firepower.
|
|
|
Post by westmeathman on Jun 26, 2015 20:05:40 GMT
Anyone any views on meath v westmeath.anyone give us a prayer of finally beating the old enemy
|
|
|
Post by MrRasherstoyou on Jun 26, 2015 20:11:33 GMT
I'm worried for you Westmeathman, because firstly I've got about 5 Westmeath friends, and secondly, your coach is quoted in the paper saying "our best ever chance to beat Meath". Not exactly keeping the pressure down then! No reason why you couldn't win but the horrible hand of history is...............blah blah blah (something beginning with 'h'). 10,000 Dubs will be cheering yis on though!! ( :
|
|
|
Post by westmeathman on Jun 26, 2015 20:18:11 GMT
I'm worried for you Westmeathman, because firstly I've got about 5 Westmeath friends, and secondly, your coach is quoted in the paper saying "our best ever chance to beat Meath". Not exactly keeping the pressure down then! No reason why you couldn't win but the horrible hand of history is...............blah blah blah (something beginning with 'h'). 10,000 Dubs will be cheering yis on though!! ( :
|
|